SNAP!
My friend does that. EVERYTHING is maximized, even MSN windows. It makes me cringe when he looks at other windows using the toolbar thingy down the bottom.
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Why is the green "plus" button so broken?
- Thread starter EvryDayImShufln
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SNAP!
My friend does that. EVERYTHING is maximized, even MSN windows. It makes me cringe when he looks at other windows using the toolbar thingy down the bottom.
LOL, I gotchabut I am LMAO because you say that "One thing is certain" that "nothing is ever certain". You sorta contradicted your point.
haha yea i know but its a cool saying anyways lol
While it is true that many people maximize windows without thinking about it, and have no real reason why they do it, it is also true that different people are truly different and have different work styles. What works for one user may not work well for another user. I think it is very narrow minded of people to say that nobody (or everybody) should maximize windows. Just do what works best for you. I do think it would be great if the os gave us the option of making buttons do what we want them to do, but really it is no big deal. What IS a big deal is people trying to force other people to accept their point of view as the only valid viewpoint.
For firefox, the button honestly doesn't work AT ALL. sometimes it doesn't even do anything when you click it.
for safari it sometimes leaves the horrizontal scrollbar at the bottom of the screen! it would be really great if it worked the way it's supposed to, but it doesn't.
for safari it sometimes leaves the horrizontal scrollbar at the bottom of the screen! it would be really great if it worked the way it's supposed to, but it doesn't.
ok, i figured out what the more specific problem is. if you have the window smaller than the recommended size, the green button will expand it (for me, right now, it expands the maximum vertically, and and about 3/4 of the screen horizontally.
now, if you have the window expanded more horizontally than that 3/4, then the green button does not change anything at all when you click it. it doesnt do anything. i thought the point was to make it just the size you need (be that reducing or increasing the size of the window).
and for safari, for some strange reason it makes it slightly undersized horizontally so there is still a scrollbar at the bottom.
I like maximizing my windows. It allows me to see more of, you know, the **** I'm working with. Instead of the window behind that contains **** I'm not working with. Or my desktop wallpaper.
The green button doesn't work the way I would prefer it to, so I generally just end up stretching my windows out to full-size. Thankfully, Panther provided Exposé and Leopard provided Spaces, so it's finally tolerable.
In darn-near every app I run, width is a benefit. I can fit more columns of data in iTunes or spreadsheets or Finder or DEVONthink. PDFs become larger and more legible. Text entry in Safari is easier with more screen real-estate.
Similarly, height is almost always a benefit -- more rows of data, less scrolling in PDFs and websites, better text entry, etc.
Why wouldn't you maximize? Because you only read blogs online? Because you really watch postage stamp-sized Quicktime videos while writing Stickies?
Sorry -- I generally don't mix and match my applications. When I'm on the internet, I'm either researching or killing time, and if I'm researching I have folder actions to move PDF'ed sites to the appropriate locations. If I'm working, I'm working in one particular app (DEVONthink). If I'm watching a movie or playing music, I'm doing it on the Apple TV eight feet away. If I need to dig down in Terminal or the Finder, by all means, I'll size them appropriately -- but I create aliases and smart groups to avoid my reliance on multiple Finder windows and I have tabs in Terminal.
If you use fifteen applications at the same time and feel the perverse need to have them all visible on screen at the same time, that's fantastic. Many of us don't work that way, though -- and although you might be in the majority of Mac users, you are not necessarily in the majority of computer users.
And bragging about how long you've been using a Mac is idiotic. If you actually purchased a Mac and tried to use it during the OS8/OS9 days, it significantly impairs my ability to take you seriously.
The green button doesn't work the way I would prefer it to, so I generally just end up stretching my windows out to full-size. Thankfully, Panther provided Exposé and Leopard provided Spaces, so it's finally tolerable.
In darn-near every app I run, width is a benefit. I can fit more columns of data in iTunes or spreadsheets or Finder or DEVONthink. PDFs become larger and more legible. Text entry in Safari is easier with more screen real-estate.
Similarly, height is almost always a benefit -- more rows of data, less scrolling in PDFs and websites, better text entry, etc.
Why wouldn't you maximize? Because you only read blogs online? Because you really watch postage stamp-sized Quicktime videos while writing Stickies?
Sorry -- I generally don't mix and match my applications. When I'm on the internet, I'm either researching or killing time, and if I'm researching I have folder actions to move PDF'ed sites to the appropriate locations. If I'm working, I'm working in one particular app (DEVONthink). If I'm watching a movie or playing music, I'm doing it on the Apple TV eight feet away. If I need to dig down in Terminal or the Finder, by all means, I'll size them appropriately -- but I create aliases and smart groups to avoid my reliance on multiple Finder windows and I have tabs in Terminal.
If you use fifteen applications at the same time and feel the perverse need to have them all visible on screen at the same time, that's fantastic. Many of us don't work that way, though -- and although you might be in the majority of Mac users, you are not necessarily in the majority of computer users.
And bragging about how long you've been using a Mac is idiotic. If you actually purchased a Mac and tried to use it during the OS8/OS9 days, it significantly impairs my ability to take you seriously.
I don't maximize things like Safari because most webpages aren't designed to be resolution independent, so on most websites you get a huge swath of white all around the page (sometimes the designer will mix it up with gray, or tulips or some such) and this is on my little 13" screen. Imagine how horrid it was when I was dual screening with a 23" Cinema Display!
Not maximizing my windows means that I can view multiple documents at once, or have 3 or so emacs windows open if I am coding. I can be talking to people on Adium while watching a movie in (insert media player here). I can browse the web while chatting. I can read my email, and then bring up another, older email and compare the text side by side to compare them (I play Diplomacy via email, so this is crucial if I want to confirm that someone lied). I can be working on a website in Coda while still having the webpage open right next to it. I can have a finder window, a terminal window, and an emacs windows open (helpful when turning in my homework via ssh) or in lieu of the terminal, CyberDuck.
So why would I maximize?
Exactly. You're exactly the type of person I was talking about in a previous post of mine. You have been trained to be completely uncomfortable when presented with "too many" windows, as you put it.
Now, the debate here is about the Green button, and what it should really do, from a choice of two options:
Fit to Content - the more flexible and multitasking-friendly method that may seem a bit complex or overwhelming to people such as yourselves.
Maximize - the totally not flexible, primitive method that would be completely utterly unacceptable to anybody who is used to the previous way.
Now, who do you think would suffer more:
The single-app maximize types such as yourself who have to manually drag their windows the full size of the screen, or familiarize yourself with the way Apple intended you to work with your computer.
- or -
The people who are already fluent in the operation of the green button and use their computers with lots of windows and the desktop visible at all times, who would then have completely lost the content-aware resizing feature and have to manually drag and resize their windows, in addition to un-learning the long established function of that button?
Apple isn't going to change it, and its pretty dumb for people to expect them to. You're basically asking them to go backwards.
But why does it have to be only one way? A computer is a tool, and a tool is to be used. The best tools will conform themselves to the way YOU work best, not force you into some arbitrary way that the designers think is best for you. Nobody has the right to say what works best for somebody else, that is all I am saying. I won't try to force my way on you, and I would be grateful if you would do the same. I am now done with this thread.
It's unfortunate you are done with this thread but then again so am I after I rebuttal your opinions.
You asked why does it have to be only one way? Windows is only one way. Why doesn't their browser expand just enough to cover the content. I don't like the fact that it's only one way, expand to full screen or back to original size. Not productive.
Nobody has the right to say what works best for someone else: Unfortunately you're wrong, Apple and Microsoft make their OS's they way they want and the way they feel you should work, on this account either use their OS or don't use it.
The best tools will conform themselves to the way you work best: How would the computer know which way millions and millions of computer users work best. Since there's no real wrong way it can only do what the developing programmer makes it do.
Remember it's a choice so nobody is forcing you. Thank goodness Apple brings a different way of computing otherwise we would all by stuck with Windows. Not to say Apple's way is perfect but it works for most.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying that either way is perfect and you're right, neither Windows nor OS X give you a choice in this case. That doesn't make it right. In my opinion they should both give you the option of how you want to work. After all, that is what computers are good for, having multiple options for how to do something. Unfortunately neither os gives you a choice in this case. That doesn't mean they cannot be improved upon. Software development is not a perfect art and is continually evolving. And with that I am now done.
I thought I explained pretty well why Apple developers would choose not to offer maximize everything as an option.
I guess I could once again go into why maximizing is almost never ever a good option over fit to content, despite how much value you think Apple should place on your personal preferences and comfort levels, but then I'd be repeating myself yet again.
I like full screen modes for writing. I type green text on black - but I suppose that isn't really 'maximizing'.
The idea of 'multitasking' is misleading anyway - you can only have one app in use at a time so you still need to switch between them. It doesn't really matter if they're maximised or not. Unless you're waiting for a message or something then the ability to see your other windows isn't that useful.
Ironically I think OS X works much better with full screen windows than Windows. Thanks to exposé, better cmd-tab functionality, the hide window function etc. As a 12" iBook owner I'm thankful as I have to have pretty much every window maxed out to make them usable.
At work in XP I usually maximise Outlook but have all the other windows floating on top - because I always want to see Outlook in the background.
I don't think zoom works very well for browsing though as websites often have different size pages and if you're flipping from page to page surfing then you'd need to keep resizing the page. Better to set a size that's big enough for everything - not necessarily full screen though.
The idea of 'multitasking' is misleading anyway - you can only have one app in use at a time so you still need to switch between them. It doesn't really matter if they're maximised or not. Unless you're waiting for a message or something then the ability to see your other windows isn't that useful.
Ironically I think OS X works much better with full screen windows than Windows. Thanks to exposé, better cmd-tab functionality, the hide window function etc. As a 12" iBook owner I'm thankful as I have to have pretty much every window maxed out to make them usable.
At work in XP I usually maximise Outlook but have all the other windows floating on top - because I always want to see Outlook in the background.
I don't think zoom works very well for browsing though as websites often have different size pages and if you're flipping from page to page surfing then you'd need to keep resizing the page. Better to set a size that's big enough for everything - not necessarily full screen though.
That is really quite false, especially on Mac OS X, with all the drag and drop action. Judging by your response, I gather you aren't very familiar or even aware of how it works in Mac OS X.
On a Mac, "drag and drop" doesn't only apply to dragging files from one folder to another folder in the Finder.
Yeah but it isn't 'multitasking' - it's a single task that requires multiple windows. The terminology is misleading. Even so there are usually other ways to perform the same task. Besides, you often have to reposition windows anyway to drag and drop, which in itself inefficient - often its quicker to drag stuff on to the task bar in Windows even if you aren't maximised, or cmd-tab to the app in OSX, as it means you don't have to fiddle with window sizing and positioning.
Personally I avoid using the mouse as much as possible as it's usually slower, less efficient and I get wrist pains if I use the mouse too much. One reason why I love Quicksilver, and it's made me think the 'desktop' metaphor is rather outmoded for anyone comfortable with computers.
Also remember it isn't maximised or nothing. You can work with windows 'floating' in Windows just as you can in OS X. You just have the option if you spend most of your life in one or two apps. If a large part of your job entails sitting in one app - say if you do a large amount of data entry - then it makes sense to have that app fill the screen. You may never use another app in your day to day work.
Thank you. If you haven't learned one thing about Apple and the Mac you need to know that you are doing things Apple's way, and hence the "right" way.
Apple thinks maximizing is inefficient because it goes against the basics of GUI and using a desktop environment. If you need to maximize, do it yourself, manually. But, Apple isn't going to help you out on it.
It is hilarious seeing how many Apple cult followers here are defending Apple's bad choice of display, bad coding, or a bad understanding of what the + means typically.
If the majority of these fanboys never used a Mac and used one today and tried the + button, you'd be like "wait... no "bigger"?
I think many of you were confused when you first tried it, but went online to see other user trying to justify it, and being the Apple fanboy that you are, you blindly took there justification just so Apple won't look stupid.
I anything, it shouldn't be a + sign. Imagine taking enlargement pills, and on the box and product lays many + signs, saying "maximize your ....". You take it, and whatever the body part is shrinks, how you feel?Like an idiot I hope. I hope you wouldn't be running around being an Apple fanboy saying "my leg is the size of my thumb, but the "theory" is correct!!! Yay Apple".
I have a iMac and a Dell XPS 400 setting nicely together almost as if holding hands, and I a fan of both companies and their products aren't blind and ignorant enough to justify things that should have no justification.
Anyways, Apple needs to change the sign, or change the purpose (coding).
I'm gone...
If the majority of these fanboys never used a Mac and used one today and tried the + button, you'd be like "wait... no "bigger"?
I think many of you were confused when you first tried it, but went online to see other user trying to justify it, and being the Apple fanboy that you are, you blindly took there justification just so Apple won't look stupid.
I anything, it shouldn't be a + sign. Imagine taking enlargement pills, and on the box and product lays many + signs, saying "maximize your ....". You take it, and whatever the body part is shrinks, how you feel?Like an idiot I hope. I hope you wouldn't be running around being an Apple fanboy saying "my leg is the size of my thumb, but the "theory" is correct!!! Yay Apple".
I have a iMac and a Dell XPS 400 setting nicely together almost as if holding hands, and I a fan of both companies and their products aren't blind and ignorant enough to justify things that should have no justification.
Anyways, Apple needs to change the sign, or change the purpose (coding).
I'm gone...
If you really want to maximize use Quicksilver.
I have F6 : total Maximize
I have F7 : 'half' Maximize front two Windows side by side
& have F8: 'half' top and bottom.
I don't think that the present system is great. Perhaps, a slight desaturation for return to user state would help. The button as a maximize to full Window is just a bad idea. Not because it's not occasionally useful but because a nice 'click me!' green button is going to get clicked by people and encourage a use that is a would be bad to have as the default use.
Also in Safari, try this: maximize a Window, then move it to the center of the screen, now click the green button twice. I would expect the second click to remember where my previously maxed Window was, but in fact it maximizes back in the top left. I think that this semi-toggle behaviour is confusing to people. Especially if the behaviour is not consistent across apps.
i.e. desaturate and return to previous max should remember previous position.
I have F6 : total Maximize
I have F7 : 'half' Maximize front two Windows side by side
& have F8: 'half' top and bottom.
I don't think that the present system is great. Perhaps, a slight desaturation for return to user state would help. The button as a maximize to full Window is just a bad idea. Not because it's not occasionally useful but because a nice 'click me!' green button is going to get clicked by people and encourage a use that is a would be bad to have as the default use.
Also in Safari, try this: maximize a Window, then move it to the center of the screen, now click the green button twice. I would expect the second click to remember where my previously maxed Window was, but in fact it maximizes back in the top left. I think that this semi-toggle behaviour is confusing to people. Especially if the behaviour is not consistent across apps.
i.e. desaturate and return to previous max should remember previous position.
Briefly:
Code:
-- An applescript that resizes the front two windows of the active application side by side, filling the screen.
-- Written by Simon Dorfman, January 4, 2006. www.SimonDorfman.com
-- Save this script to ~/Library/Scripts/Applications/Run from QuickSilver Triggers, Don't move these/Front 2 Windows Side by Side - Control + Option + C.scpt
-- I use keyboard shortcut Control + Option + C to run it. I think of the C as standing for "Compare".
-- You'll need to have "Enable access for assisstive devices" enabled under Universal Access in System Preferences.
--set screen dimension variables
set menubarHeight to 22
--set screenWidth to word 3 of (do shell script "defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver | grep -w Width") as number
--set screenHeight to word 3 of (do shell script "defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver | grep -w Height") as number
--if you plan to use this on just one computer where the screen dimensions won't change, this script will run faster if you just hard code your screen resolution with these two lines:
set screenWidth to 1640
set screenHeight to 1050
{screenWidth, screenHeight}
tell application "System Events"
set frontApp to name of first application process whose frontmost is true
end tell
--some apps are wacky and put the windows higher for some reason, adjust for this bug.
if (frontApp is equal to "Finder" or frontApp is equal to "Microsoft Entourage") then
set menubarHeight to 44
end if
--leave room for the Excel Toolbar
if (frontApp is equal to "Microsoft Excel") then
set menubarHeight to 55
end if
try
if frontApp is "Path Finder" then
-- deal with Path Finder windows
tell application "Path Finder"
set bounds of «class fwiD» 1 to {0, menubarHeight, screenWidth, screenHeight}
end tell
else
tell application frontApp
set bounds of window 1 to {0, menubarHeight, screenWidth, screenHeight}
end tell
end if
on error the error_message number the error_number
--display dialog "Error: " & the error_number & ". " & the error_message buttons {"OK"} default button 1
end tryIt is hilarious seeing how many Apple denigrators here are asserting they know more about Human Interface Guidelines and know more about how to design a GUI than Apple do.
Here's one reason why: I develop web-apps that need to look good in a variety of browser window sizes. Therefore, for the most part I have my "test" browser window open at 1024x768 (a reasonable lowest-common-denominator nowadays). That way I can ensure that the visual experience at that window size is none-too-jarring. Once happy with that, often I will resize the window to see how the web-app reacts to other sizes as well.