Be interesting to see how the EU's Digital Markets Act affects things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act
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Why is website design so awful today, generally?
- Thread starter Tozovac
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act
Because "3 out of 5 doctors prefer Camels" and "Just Say No" worked so beautifully amiright?
Unfortunately this ain't going away anytime soon, at least, not until it's far too late to change society back to normal. We've gotten too used to this 'new normal' especially after Covid. I fear the damage has already been done.
I don't think anyone has said WhatsApp is good. It was simply a response to the idea that nobody knows who is on what platform and how to contact people. This problem does not exist in Europe as almost everyone is on WhatsApp. Is that a problem? Yes. But it has absolutely solved the "how do i speak to person X?" in Europe.
I have no quarrel with those in Europe preferring what they like. But it does get me a tad miffed when I come across many posts online on many forums with quips like "you 'muricans still use ancient SMS! Get with the times man!"
You use what you like, I use what I like.
You use what you like, I use what I like.
if you mean using smartphones you are correct. Its an addiction and in the end each person will benefit or get hurt by his choices. I might choose to regain my attention , but it will not hurt me if another chooses to be a smartphone addict.
If you mean privacy, there is a lot of movement now towards better and more private alternatives. The ball is rolling and heading that direction.
One would think that creating a standard and each uses a client (like email) would work but in reality, this only means if you choose a privacy friendly chat client but your contact uses FB messenger its no use. Unless that standard is encrypted from within itself.
You were literally the one who brought it up, saying you feel sorry for people who use WhatsApp and having to ensure everyone was on the same app. All I did was say in Europe this isn't the problem you've portrayed it has. If you didn't want to talk about WhatsApp, then you shouldn't have brought it up.
I also didn't say you Americans should get with the times. This is purely some insecure projection from yourself. "You Americans" can use whatever you want. I don't care - I'm just telling you how we message in Europe, as you were unaware of the market penetration of WhatsApp.
It wasn't you. I get a lot of flak on other forums because we here still use Imperial measurements and SMS. You'd be surprised how many in other countries hate us for both. It's almost like they feel they need to 'convert' the USA to conform to their ideals as if they're superior. I am sure their ideals work fine in their part of the world but not here. If anything, I wanted to just ask 'can't we all get along?'
Yeah to me it sucks you have to be sure everyone uses the same app to do something as simple as text. SMS does that perfectly fine, no data needed, no annoying things that just clutter the experience like typing indicators and 'seen' and 'read' stuff or stickers and from my short experience with Facebook Messenger (before I got so annoyed to turn it off and remove it) you cannot turn any of that crap off, and you're stuck with one interface design. I can, however, choose any texting app I want, old or new, even customize the UI entirely. If I were forced to use something like Whatsapp, not only would I be stuck with the UI design it uses, with no alternative, (because everyone would be using the same app anyway), but I would need to pay extra for a data plan on my line, and ultimately need to buy new phones once they stop supporting mine. I am trying to get out of consuming not back into more of it. SMS doesn't need the latest or greatest OS or phone model so I feel it's the better option for me. SMS is a universal standard like USB, and Whatsapp is proprietary. There's no 'other' Whatsapp apps to choose from like there are a myriad of SMS apps I can choose from.
Yeah to me it sucks you have to be sure everyone uses the same app to do something as simple as text. SMS does that perfectly fine, no data needed, no annoying things that just clutter the experience like typing indicators and 'seen' and 'read' stuff or stickers and from my short experience with Facebook Messenger (before I got so annoyed to turn it off and remove it) you cannot turn any of that crap off, and you're stuck with one interface design. I can, however, choose any texting app I want, old or new, even customize the UI entirely. If I were forced to use something like Whatsapp, not only would I be stuck with the UI design it uses, with no alternative, (because everyone would be using the same app anyway), but I would need to pay extra for a data plan on my line, and ultimately need to buy new phones once they stop supporting mine. I am trying to get out of consuming not back into more of it. SMS doesn't need the latest or greatest OS or phone model so I feel it's the better option for me. SMS is a universal standard like USB, and Whatsapp is proprietary. There's no 'other' Whatsapp apps to choose from like there are a myriad of SMS apps I can choose from.
I agree with you on SMS but out of USA SMS can be charged for and Whatsapp is free, also whatsapp works with Wifi incase no cellular data or your phone line is terminated due to late bills, also whatsapp makes free calls international. Also you can send all kinds of media via whatsapp including people's favorite feature "voice recordings" and you can address multiple people at once and its all free! So yeah I can't blame people. My only problem is that there is a better privacy alternative like Signal that does all that.
Another issue I'd have with Whatsapp is that a basic flip phone is impossible to use if you live in a country depending on it. The only flip phones that run Whatsapp run KaiOS which is chock full of Google spyware crud and it's a crappy OS. My current phone is a flip phone running an extremely bare bones AOSP OS based on Android 5.1. Here, data costs extra and I don't get a data signal in many places I go (only bars) so texting, which is my main app other than music these days would be all but impossible if I had to rely on Whatsapp or Signal (and their inferior, flat UI designs and 'gimmicks')
I also have extreme hatred of any app that depends on having the latest updates and then ultimately forces you to buy a new phone whenever it doesn't support their latest updates. I personally don't believe in updates (iOS 7 screwed that!) and don't believe in e-waste so I prefer to buy for life. When they killed my favorite 10 year old HTC Thunderbolt and Galaxy SII's with the 3G shutdown (it's not actually shut down, they just refuse to let me use it--yet another case of a company deciding to do something without any customer demand to do so--what happened to the concept of free market economics?) I downgraded to a flip phone. I don't miss smartphones anyway. All I do is text and play MP3s.
I also have extreme hatred of any app that depends on having the latest updates and then ultimately forces you to buy a new phone whenever it doesn't support their latest updates. I personally don't believe in updates (iOS 7 screwed that!) and don't believe in e-waste so I prefer to buy for life. When they killed my favorite 10 year old HTC Thunderbolt and Galaxy SII's with the 3G shutdown (it's not actually shut down, they just refuse to let me use it--yet another case of a company deciding to do something without any customer demand to do so--what happened to the concept of free market economics?) I downgraded to a flip phone. I don't miss smartphones anyway. All I do is text and play MP3s.
I think not!
The USA uses the US Customary system of units.
Many differences to Imperial such as pint, quart and gallon. Imperial was the result of an overhaul of units in UK in 1826.
texting with numerical keypad sucks though, unless your flip phone has full keyboard or you don't sms much
Actually SMS is the primary app I use. I can T9 perfectly fine. In fact, I'd wager better than any struggles I dealt with on a touchscreen with bad autocorrect. With smartphones today getting too large for my tiny hands and my bad dexterity (I got early onset Arthritis in my 20s, and it's getting worse with time) I was lucky to be able to tap out a sentence one-handed without inadvertently dropping the phone or triggering some odd gesture. Why are gesture controls even a thing? what problem do they honestly solve?!
I can use the ZTE phone far better than anything with a touchscreen, and one-handed. Sometimes, what you grew up with is the best option. Not all of us can 'embrace the future' like you. Just as I can operate an AM/8-track stereo radio far easier than some laggy, crummy infotainment touchscreen system without even a CD player.
I can use the ZTE phone far better than anything with a touchscreen, and one-handed. Sometimes, what you grew up with is the best option. Not all of us can 'embrace the future' like you. Just as I can operate an AM/8-track stereo radio far easier than some laggy, crummy infotainment touchscreen system without even a CD player.
I like how we're demanding better usability in this thread, whilst also saying that having to press a button 4 times to get the letter S is the most efficient way of texting.
If it works best for me, why complain? You use what you like, I use what I like. Threads such as this started because Apple and others (Samsung, Microsoft, et al) decided that one way is best for everyone which is clearly mistaken.
People are all different and have different tastes and no attempt by any corporation or UX designer at trying to make a homogenized society will ever succeed.
People are all different and have different tastes and no attempt by any corporation or UX designer at trying to make a homogenized society will ever succeed.
"You use what you like, I use what I like" after telling everyone how terrible touch screens are and your "extreme hatrid" for things.
The usual stuff with this thread. People come in and complain, and when answers are given, or heaven forbid, the spotlight is turned on their choices it becomes "you use what you like, i use what i like"/
I hate a lot of things. I don't force you to like things. What angers me is that tons of futurists out there feel this need to force people to change and 'get with the times' and it makes me sick.
Why not just let people do and use what they like? Why not have companies actually listen to the opinions of their customers instead of their shareholders, eh?
Yeah, touchscreens don't replace the slider keyboards of phones from 2011. I really do wish such variety existed over the one-size-fits-all mindset of making only one form factor for one hand size. I'm not huge, and my hands are tiny. I don't WANT a 6"+ screen. I'm far from the only one out there. At least I found what I can use and like, even though that choice is getting harder and harder due to the whole 'only old people like that stuff' mindset I deal with every day.
I was perfectly happy until carriers decided to force shutdown 3G even though 3G, LTE, and 5G can coexist happily just fine. Why not allow more fallbacks for everyone? no, it's frell all the rural folks who now have no service, frell all the older people who were perfectly happy to use their decade old phones...just pretend they don't exist!
Keep in mind the FCC had nothing to do with the shutdown of 3G. that was just pure carrier hostility. Leave me alone I leave you alone and all that. If LTE shuts down where will I go? Hopefully I'll be long gone.
Why not just let people do and use what they like? Why not have companies actually listen to the opinions of their customers instead of their shareholders, eh?
Yeah, touchscreens don't replace the slider keyboards of phones from 2011. I really do wish such variety existed over the one-size-fits-all mindset of making only one form factor for one hand size. I'm not huge, and my hands are tiny. I don't WANT a 6"+ screen. I'm far from the only one out there. At least I found what I can use and like, even though that choice is getting harder and harder due to the whole 'only old people like that stuff' mindset I deal with every day.
I was perfectly happy until carriers decided to force shutdown 3G even though 3G, LTE, and 5G can coexist happily just fine. Why not allow more fallbacks for everyone? no, it's frell all the rural folks who now have no service, frell all the older people who were perfectly happy to use their decade old phones...just pretend they don't exist!
Keep in mind the FCC had nothing to do with the shutdown of 3G. that was just pure carrier hostility. Leave me alone I leave you alone and all that. If LTE shuts down where will I go? Hopefully I'll be long gone.
Sorry but this shows a gross misunderstanding of how the world works.
- Let me use what I want - you use an old button pressy phone from decades ago. You are using what you want
- One size doesn't fit all - buttons are literally an attempt at one size fits all by forcing you to press a button 4 times to get the letter S. Touch screens allow literally any sort of interface to be displayed on the screen
- Carriers decided to force the 3G shutdown - no it no longer became economical to run this service. Everyone has moved to 4G. We can't keep the 3G network running, at a cost of millions, because you want to use it.
- You want to be left alone - but you demand these companies service you with technology you demand. This is the opposite of being left alone. You're demanding bespoke service for you.
- I have no idea what you're talking about the FCC.
I demand Audi leave me alone by delivering a 1984 Audi Quattro S1 to me. I don't want anything modern. I want to be left alone. With my 1984 Audi Quattro S1 that they must deliver to me.
It is even easier with SMS as 100% has SMS on their phonesYes, The UK is part of Europe.
UK: WhatsApp users by age group 2018 | Statista
According to a survey conducted by We Are Flint about the share of WhatsApp users in the United Kingdom (UK), 80 percent of adults aged 18 to 24 are users of the WhatsApp messaging service.www.statista.com
80% of under 50s in the UK are using WhatsApp. That goes up to 85% if you do under 40s. It really is a complete non-issue. Every-so-often you find one person who doesn't use it, and that's it. It really isn't a big deal trying to work out how to message someone.
Even when they are not smart phones...
The NZ government has launched a new initiative for getting broadband into more places. There's a form you can use if you're currently in an area without broadband. The first page of the form:
- Has a textual heading, not an image
- Has one line of introductory text
- Has two buttons, both created without images
- Is intended for people without broadband access
- ... and is 4.58 MB.
I am with you on usability. Lots of corporates today use fancy stuff on their websites but I really liked the function over form websites of the late 90s. Some new technology is beautiful though, Photopea is like photoshop in your browser. Free and no downloads.
Another example is people today seem to like all-screen notch no home button 5inch+ iphones. I do not get it. The notch eats the screen , the home button is so much more functional, bezels do not bother me at all infact I prefer them, and the large screen is not needed for a smartPHONE and in all cases I can't operate a 5+ inch phone one handed.
to each his own I guess 🤷♂️
When I used smartphones, I liked how they basically combined a MP3 player, camera, browser and all into one device. Helped even better when skeuomorphism was still there, as the phone then literally became those devices when you launched those apps and made it fun.
Today? let's make all phones impractical tablets which are still too small for long-term media consumption (strain your eyes) too impractically large for use as a proper phone/messaging/media player, let's remove all the buttons making camera even harder to use (you used to be able to use the volume rocker as a shutter) and let's make all the UI a boring white, grey or otherwise flat look and then make all the apps look as boring and basic as possible. Take basically all the joy out of owning a smartphone.
People seem to think a large smartphone can replace a laptop. I'd love to see them type up long multi-page Office documents on such a tiny device and hope they don't gesture back by mistake and lose it all.
There's things that work best on phones, things which work best on laptops, and things that work best on tablets. One device cannot rule them all.
Oh, to be able to return to 2010 when tech was looking awesome, the future looked brighter, and there were tons of variety, with sliders, small phones, phablets, phones with multiple OSs (Symbian, WebOS, Windows Phone, iOS, Android) and basically a device for every niche. Satisfy far more people. I'd love to see a VoLTE supported Nokia N95!
I'd love if there were some way to use current sites with the same visual styles seen on http://theoldnet.com
Like, for example, be able to use MacRumors but make it look like it did in 2010, or be able to use modern Google but use the old 2012 layout. Or browse any site and skin it to look like a 90s one. There are extensions which restore the look of old 2006 YouTube but utilize the modern page, so surely there's a way to make extensions to skin any webpage to the user's preferences?
On one Linux laptop two such extensions (ClassicTube and Old Google Search) did just that with YouTube and Google, but why aren't there any to fix the forums and other sites? I would love to De-Xenforo this site and Re-vBulletin it.
Today? let's make all phones impractical tablets which are still too small for long-term media consumption (strain your eyes) too impractically large for use as a proper phone/messaging/media player, let's remove all the buttons making camera even harder to use (you used to be able to use the volume rocker as a shutter) and let's make all the UI a boring white, grey or otherwise flat look and then make all the apps look as boring and basic as possible. Take basically all the joy out of owning a smartphone.
People seem to think a large smartphone can replace a laptop. I'd love to see them type up long multi-page Office documents on such a tiny device and hope they don't gesture back by mistake and lose it all.
There's things that work best on phones, things which work best on laptops, and things that work best on tablets. One device cannot rule them all.
Oh, to be able to return to 2010 when tech was looking awesome, the future looked brighter, and there were tons of variety, with sliders, small phones, phablets, phones with multiple OSs (Symbian, WebOS, Windows Phone, iOS, Android) and basically a device for every niche. Satisfy far more people. I'd love to see a VoLTE supported Nokia N95!
I'd love if there were some way to use current sites with the same visual styles seen on http://theoldnet.com
Like, for example, be able to use MacRumors but make it look like it did in 2010, or be able to use modern Google but use the old 2012 layout. Or browse any site and skin it to look like a 90s one. There are extensions which restore the look of old 2006 YouTube but utilize the modern page, so surely there's a way to make extensions to skin any webpage to the user's preferences?
On one Linux laptop two such extensions (ClassicTube and Old Google Search) did just that with YouTube and Google, but why aren't there any to fix the forums and other sites? I would love to De-Xenforo this site and Re-vBulletin it.
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CSS has the concept of "alternate stylesheets" but Firefox is the only mainstream browser to support them. It does, however, require the site developer to provide the sheet.
https://adventofcode.com is an example of a site with this functionality: In Firefox, go to View/Page Style/High Contrast. The HC stylesheet is provided by the site, not the browser.
https://adventofcode.com is an example of a site with this functionality: In Firefox, go to View/Page Style/High Contrast. The HC stylesheet is provided by the site, not the browser.
Used to be that using an old enough browser would force the site to display the old layout (user agent, perhaps?) but a lot of sites that used to behave now either refuse to load or attempt to load the modern site making it all broken looking.
Thankfully the old Mobile YouTube site still works on my 2012 Galaxy Note tablet.
Thankfully the old Mobile YouTube site still works on my 2012 Galaxy Note tablet.
It's simple smart behaviour. I'm not spending 50% of my resources to try and maintain compatibility with browsers of yesteryears that no sane person (information security for starters) would use in 2022. The figures don't lie, if there was demand the support would be there. Besides you'd get marked down on google rankings when not using nice responsive technologies and modern small images that load fast which aren't supported by such old browsers.
There is not a single good reason to keep using such old junk besides some rose tinted spectacle nostalgia. In every single objective measurement today's browsers are much better, secure, faster, standards compliant, amazing accessibility support and so on...
...And far more boring. It's not nostalgia. I prefer the older UI design and older apps.
Get rid of flat UI design and we'll talk. I'm sick of everything being a sea of bland, white, boring design. How about focus all the updates on security and stability instead of UI redesigns every few weeks? Not everyone's a futurist who loves re-learning where their buttons got relocated to.
Everything was so much better in 2010. Today's 'modern' is a homogenized dystopia of boring and bland with zero differentiation. Heck, in 2010 you had a phone for everyone, now, you got literally two OSs left, and one size that's intended for sasquatches. To say nothing of how messed up websites have become what with the 'hero' images and aspect ratio hell. I mean come on, widescreen LCD monitors have been around for over a decade yet many of these so-called 'responsive' websites put all the content in the middle of the screen with tons of wasted space on the left/right. Almost like you are focusing on the 5 users left who use 4:3 monitors. Yet you insult me for wanting to get back to the real future, not this re-fresh of the 1980s era of UI design!
If we kept going where UI was heading in 2010, we'd probably have far better AR as well as possible holographic tech by now. If anyone's stagnating it's not I. You should be angry at Microsoft who started this flat UI war in 2012 October, and here we are going on over a decade without any real change for the better. Since you seem to understand demand and supply, perhaps you can clue me in on the demand for all UI to be boring and flat? Seems to me the designers had the final word and all the users who complained got told to go pound sand for the last 11 years.
Google rankings. come on man, most sane people who care at least something about their privacy have been using DuckDuckGo for the last decade. Everyone knows that website design has little to do with security and more to do with keeping users on the site, what with back button trapping and endless scrolling. If anything, designers such as yourself are to blame for everyone around me being glued to a smartphone screen everywhere like it were a bad drug addiction.
Get rid of flat UI design and we'll talk. I'm sick of everything being a sea of bland, white, boring design. How about focus all the updates on security and stability instead of UI redesigns every few weeks? Not everyone's a futurist who loves re-learning where their buttons got relocated to.
Everything was so much better in 2010. Today's 'modern' is a homogenized dystopia of boring and bland with zero differentiation. Heck, in 2010 you had a phone for everyone, now, you got literally two OSs left, and one size that's intended for sasquatches. To say nothing of how messed up websites have become what with the 'hero' images and aspect ratio hell. I mean come on, widescreen LCD monitors have been around for over a decade yet many of these so-called 'responsive' websites put all the content in the middle of the screen with tons of wasted space on the left/right. Almost like you are focusing on the 5 users left who use 4:3 monitors. Yet you insult me for wanting to get back to the real future, not this re-fresh of the 1980s era of UI design!
If we kept going where UI was heading in 2010, we'd probably have far better AR as well as possible holographic tech by now. If anyone's stagnating it's not I. You should be angry at Microsoft who started this flat UI war in 2012 October, and here we are going on over a decade without any real change for the better. Since you seem to understand demand and supply, perhaps you can clue me in on the demand for all UI to be boring and flat? Seems to me the designers had the final word and all the users who complained got told to go pound sand for the last 11 years.
Google rankings. come on man, most sane people who care at least something about their privacy have been using DuckDuckGo for the last decade. Everyone knows that website design has little to do with security and more to do with keeping users on the site, what with back button trapping and endless scrolling. If anything, designers such as yourself are to blame for everyone around me being glued to a smartphone screen everywhere like it were a bad drug addiction.
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