Why is website design so awful today, generally?

[Akrapovic]

A QR is just turning a real life link into something clickable.

Saying QR codes are for people who can't remember URLs is like saying clickable hyperlinks shouldn't exist - you should just retype the URL to the new page. Or Bookmarks shouldn't exist. You can just type it out after remembering it.

Also no you shouldn't use QR codes when driving. However, billboards are viewable by people outside of motor vehicles. You can do it whilst walking. I know walking is a somewhat unusual concept in North America, but that billboard is in Japan. The billboard also provides a URL - for people who want to get to the website, but in a slower way.

Also - QR Codes work. I put stickers for my own app around racing circuits which has a QR code and a URL. I get more via the QR code than the URL. I lowered the barrier to entry on the link and people took advantage of that.

QR code on a website - odd choice and probably not a good one. QR code in the real world - exactly what it's designed to do.

 

[nickdalzell1]

It's also a great method to send viruses disguised as valid links. I heard it's quite popular to hide QR codes to porn sites on tables in restaurants and folks assume it's for the menus.

 

[MacBH928]

It's gonna be real interesting in the future, since I'm now using a flip phone!

From my experience, all the 'modern' ways are just doing the same thing the old ways were, but in a far more frustrating way. It's a newer, worse way of doing the same thing we all did in 2010.

I mean, just look at IoT stuff. Why does a refrigerator need internet? It's designed to do one thing. Same with a dishwasher. I mean why make something simple into something way more complicated than it needs to be? Clearly our tech overlords have run out of ideas. So they now use forced upgrades (such as the 3G shutdown) to coax us into their idea of the future I want no part in.

I'm sure the TikTok generation is just loving it though.

There are still flip phones? which?

Many moons ago, businesses figured out that people used to buy out of need. Once they settled they realised no one is buying any more. So they played on the notion that you should always get the bigger and nicer stuff. more, more, even more more!

Hence we have arrived at the internet refrigerator. But IoT is not all bad. I think its cool that you can shut down you AC when you are away from home, or turn on the lights, or off just before you go to bed.

Which suggests they want to force you to use your phone to access the QR and thereby try to link the you on the phone with the you on whatever other device you are using.

I am never stopped being amazed by how evil data collectors can be.

 

[Akrapovic]

It's also a great method to send viruses disguised as valid links. I heard it's quite popular to hide QR codes to porn sites on tables in restaurants and folks assume it's for the menus.

This is no more of an issue than a URL though. I can write a completely legitimate URL (example: http://bbcnewslive.com/ - looks legit, is not) and have it point to porn.

 

[polyphenol]

This is no more of an issue than a URL though. I can write a completely legitimate URL (example: http://bbcnewslive.com/ - looks legit, is not) and have it point to porn.

It seems to depend on how it is handled.

If the QR code is a link, and is displayed in full, with the option to continue or quit, they are very similar.
But if a QR code is read and immediately takes you to a site, it avoids even the possibility of a brief visual review.

Clearly, jumping without prompting is an unacceptably awful approach.

 

[adrianlondon]

It's gonna be real interesting in the future, since I'm now using a flip phone!

I'd dig out my old Ericsson T39m and use that for fun, except 2G is dead.

 

[Akrapovic]

It seems to depend on how it is handled.

If the QR code is a link, and is displayed in full, with the option to continue or quit, they are very similar.
But if a QR code is read and immediately takes you to a site, it avoids even the possibility of a brief visual review.

Clearly, jumping without prompting is an unacceptably awful approach.

I don't believe either iOS or Android go straight to the site via the camera. They give the URL.

 

[polyphenol]

I don't believe either iOS or Android go straight to the site via the camera. They give the URL.

I agree if you are using the basic built-in mechanism.

 

[Nermal]

I am never stopped being amazed by how evil data collectors can be.

A few months ago I was looking at buying an appliance. I was on a retailer's site and I went "add to cart" then began to enter my personal details, then changed my mind and closed the page without submitting. A day or two later they emailed me with something like "do you want to complete your order?"

So, they used some JavaScript to slurp my email address and other details as soon as I entered them, before I clicked Next or Submit. Then when I replied and told them this was appalling behaviour, I got a "sorry you didn't find this useful" non-apology.

 

[ghanwani]

A few months ago I was looking at buying an appliance. I was on a retailer's site and I went "add to cart" then began to enter my personal details, then changed my mind and closed the page without submitting. A day or two later they emailed me with something like "do you want to complete your order?"

So, they used some JavaScript to slurp my email address and other details as soon as I entered them, before I clicked Next or Submit. Then when I replied and told them this was appalling behaviour, I got a "sorry you didn't find this useful" non-apology.

Actually I don't think they get it as you enter it. There are tracking cookies and companies that sell them your info. Happens to me all the time without entering an email address at the retailer site. Sometimes, I don't even have to add it to the cart, I just have to have visited the product page several times. Adding it to the cart almost guarantees an email of the form "pssst...did you forget something?".

 

[Akrapovic]

A few months ago I was looking at buying an appliance. I was on a retailer's site and I went "add to cart" then began to enter my personal details, then changed my mind and closed the page without submitting. A day or two later they emailed me with something like "do you want to complete your order?"

So, they used some JavaScript to slurp my email address and other details as soon as I entered them, before I clicked Next or Submit. Then when I replied and told them this was appalling behaviour, I got a "sorry you didn't find this useful" non-apology.

I agree with ghanwani here. It's unlikely they collected your email address from the form without pressing submit. But your details are (unfortunately) for sale via agencies. It is a horrible practice, but this is the kind of thing Safari attempts to block with tracking cookies, and what Apple blocks with the ad-sharing data in the apps. These companies have a profile on you, and this is part of it.

Similar, someone is selling my details, including phone number, to tech recruitment agencies, because in my position I can hire for the company. But this is my personal phone number - which makes the sale of the details without my consent a GDPR violation. It's all ridiculous and messy.

 

[MacBH928]

A few months ago I was looking at buying an appliance. I was on a retailer's site and I went "add to cart" then began to enter my personal details, then changed my mind and closed the page without submitting. A day or two later they emailed me with something like "do you want to complete your order?"

So, they used some JavaScript to slurp my email address and other details as soon as I entered them, before I clicked Next or Submit. Then when I replied and told them this was appalling behaviour, I got a "sorry you didn't find this useful" non-apology.

use psuedo emails ddg has them for free then you got simplelogin and anon addy i think. Each site 1 email.

Plus i think you know about this but use privacy tools when browsing like ublock origin, dns ad blocker, block 3rd party cookies options and the such.

Best Privacy Tools & Software Guide in in 2024

The most reliable website for privacy tools since 2015. Software, services, apps and privacy guides to fight surveillance with encryption for better internet privacy.

www.privacytools.io

The Best Privacy Tools, Services, and Ad-Free Recommendations - Privacy Guides

Privacy Guides is the most transparent and reliable website for finding software, apps, and services that protect your personal data from mass surveillance programs and other internet threats.

www.privacyguides.org

share with family and friends

 

[Nermal]

Actually I don't think they get it as you enter it. There are tracking cookies and companies that sell them your info. Happens to me all the time without entering an email address at the retailer site. Sometimes, I don't even have to add it to the cart, I just have to have visited the product page several times. Adding it to the cart almost guarantees an email of the form "pssst...did you forget something?".

I think they were slurping it as I entered it; I seem to recall the site 'freezing' for half a second every time I tabbed to the next field.

 

[Akrapovic]

I think they were slurping it as I entered it; I seem to recall the site 'freezing' for half a second every time I tabbed to the next field.

A site sending data to a sever like that wouldn't result in the page freezing for half a second. Freezes tend to happen when the page is loading something or redrawing. What you're describing as your suspicion is extremely low CPU usage to do - your browser could make those little transfers without you noticing.

Honestly, there's two big reasons they're likely not doing this. First is it requires a lot of effort and man power on their end to then deal with it. Why would they bother scraping your details when someone already has them, and it's part of their marketing package anyway?

And secondly, it's probably not legal. They'd be in violation of so many things (in Europe it'd be GDPR). Buying your details in removes the liability from them as they'd be buying from marketing/ad services who'd have gotten your details in a presumably more legal way. And if it wasn't a legal way, they aren't liable - the data provider is.

It just isn't worth the risk or effort of them trying to scrape your details with a custom form when it can all be handled automatically by their marketing apps.

 

[MacBH928]

A site sending data to a sever like that wouldn't result in the page freezing for half a second. Freezes tend to happen when the page is loading something or redrawing. What you're describing as your suspicion is extremely low CPU usage to do - your browser could make those little transfers without you noticing.

Honestly, there's two big reasons they're likely not doing this. First is it requires a lot of effort and man power on their end to then deal with it. Why would they bother scraping your details when someone already has them, and it's part of their marketing package anyway?

And secondly, it's probably not legal. They'd be in violation of so many things (in Europe it'd be GDPR). Buying your details in removes the liability from them as they'd be buying from marketing/ad services who'd have gotten your details in a presumably more legal way. And if it wasn't a legal way, they aren't liable - the data provider is.

It just isn't worth the risk or effort of them trying to scrape your details with a custom form when it can all be handled automatically by their marketing apps.

who cares about privacy policies? In the end they just give them a slap on the wrist.

 

[Akrapovic]

who cares about privacy policies? In the end they just give them a slap on the wrist.

Some fines for GDPR violation have been over half a billion euros. GDPR violations are up to $20m, or 4% of worldwide turnover - whichever is higher.

But on the original point: If you can negate liability and get the details for cheap, and have no technical overhead, you're going to choose that.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Yes, there are still 'modern' flip phones. Mine is a ZTE Cymbal LTE (2017). It runs an extremely AOSP Android base (no Google apps, no app store, just basics like music, phone, messages, file browser, extras such as alarm clock. No games, no GPS, no 'apps' overall). It still uses an old enough build that it combines early material design and holo era design UX.

Many modern flips try to be smartphones though, running some variant of KaiOS (based on Firefox OS) that include all the crap like Google Assistant and Maps, along with requiring data to properly run, and include ads and tracking and even built-in apps for Vaccine Passports (No thanks!). That's when they work. I tried one and gave up a month into it. Wouldn't pair to my car's bluetooth, any wired headset only played out of one ear, and I had to basically reorder my SD card music (all 2K songs in folders for each album, artist song) to the root of the card for the phone to see it. (took a couple of days!). Then the software was horrible. It lagged and froze often. Messages had wrong time stamps making older messages appear before new ones, notifications were wonky, etc. The phone (Alcatel GoFlip (2020)) was extemely cheap feeling. It didn't feel well made or durable.

I prefer my Cymbal. I fear the inevitable 4G LTE shutdown a few years from now though. Because then I'd be forced into a smartphone I don't want anymore. I refuse to be part of that generation. I just got off the need to be in front of a screen and I sleep better and my eyes don't hurt, and I don't get migraines anymore. I don't want that back in my life. Nothing but stress. The ZTE feels far better made, is not nearly as bland in design of the hardware, and the keypad feels nicer (the GoFlip had a cheap membrane keypad like those credit card calculators in the 80s.)

 

[MacBH928]

Yes, there are still 'modern' flip phones. Mine is a ZTE Cymbal LTE (2017). It runs an extremely AOSP Android base (no Google apps, no app store, just basics like music, phone, messages, file browser, extras such as alarm clock. No games, no GPS, no 'apps' overall). It still uses an old enough build that it combines early material design and holo era design UX.

Many modern flips try to be smartphones though, running some variant of KaiOS (based on Firefox OS) that include all the crap like Google Assistant and Maps, along with requiring data to properly run, and include ads and tracking and even built-in apps for Vaccine Passports (No thanks!). That's when they work. I tried one and gave up a month into it. Wouldn't pair to my car's bluetooth, any wired headset only played out of one ear, and I had to basically reorder my SD card music (all 2K songs in folders for each album, artist song) to the root of the card for the phone to see it. (took a couple of days!). Then the software was horrible. It lagged and froze often. Messages had wrong time stamps making older messages appear before new ones, notifications were wonky, etc. The phone (Alcatel GoFlip (2020)) was extemely cheap feeling. It didn't feel well made or durable.

I prefer my Cymbal. I fear the inevitable 4G LTE shutdown a few years from now though. Because then I'd be forced into a smartphone I don't want anymore. I refuse to be part of that generation. I just got off the need to be in front of a screen and I sleep better and my eyes don't hurt, and I don't get migraines anymore. I don't want that back in my life. Nothing but stress. The ZTE feels far better made, is not nearly as bland in design of the hardware, and the keypad feels nicer (the GoFlip had a cheap membrane keypad like those credit card calculators in the 80s.)

nice to see flip phones still around I wish I could justify one.

I wouldn't worry about 4G being taken down at least for the next 10 years.

check out lightphone .

 

[ghanwani]

nice to see flip phones still around I wish I could justify one.

I wouldn't worry about 4G being taken down at least for the next 10 years.

check out lightphone .

Ordinarily I would like to consider such a phone but my carrier neither makes calls nor sends texts reliably esp international. I end up having to rely on WhatsApp (despite me not being a fan of meta) which wouldn’t be available on these phones.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I feel sorry for those stuck with Whatsapp (not just for being part of Facecrud, but having to ensure every contact you know has the same app to use it to text, and then requiring data)

SMS I use like AIM back in the day, does its job perfectly fine and I don't need those stupid typing indicator dots or any indication someone 'saw' or 'read' my message. I send, wait for a ding, and read. Totally minimalist in the best possible way. No data needed, no app, and no need for every contact to use the same service (and no forced updates--Whatsapp ultimately stops working if your phone is too old, making you feed the consumer cycle I want no part in today).

It does the job fine to keep me in touch with my girlfriend when we're not together (she lives 500 plus miles away). All I ever used a phone to do was play music, take photos of Daisy (a deer I used to know--camera today is far less important) and make calls and send/receive texts. There's really no need for me to have a smartphone. I never used them to their full potential in 2010, and with the ones I loved fondly dead as of the whole forced 3G shutdown that I did NOT vote for, but had no choice in, I cannot use them so flip it is.

I feel better off without smartphones. I no longer deal with endless frustration of the constant changes and forced updates, no longer have headaches from eye strain, and can actually think and learn properly. I no longer have the ability to Google what I need since I deleted most tech and the internet from my life save this one laptop. At work I'm reading actual service books. Doing things 'the old way' is just fun and more useful for me. I feel healthier longterm. I think all these kiddos raised with a smartphone in their hand at age 3 will be having massive eye problems before they turn 30, and have massive anti-social issues and fear of human contact. We're too used to being in front of a screen IMO. My own tech detox has taught me that once unplugged from the Matrix you see the real results and they're scary. I only wish I could unplug everyone else. It's like that Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "the Game" wherein everyone was addicted to a little AR game device that made them 'feel good' (similar to dopamine addiction via TikTok) when they won. If only flashing a strobe light could disable a smartphone.

 

[Akrapovic]

I feel sorry for those stuck with Whatsapp (not just for being part of Facecrud, but having to ensure every contact you know has the same app to use it to text, and then requiring data)

In Europe this is a non-issue. Everyone has been on WhatsApp for the best part of a decade (even the tech illiterate) and every sim plan comes with data.

I understand the US is different and they have different issues regarding platforms and data. But in the US WhatsApp is more popular than SMS, iMessage etc all combined. It's a solved issue here.

Edit: Obviously doesn't solve the valid privacy concerns you raise

 

[polyphenol]

In Europe this is a non-issue. Everyone has been on WhatsApp for the best part of a decade (even the tech illiterate) and every sim plan comes with data.

Don't know if you meant that to read as it does? (Do you include UK in your use of "Europe"?)

But I have never used WhatsApp. No-one I know has ever suggested I should use it! Have zero intention of ever installing the app or using it.

I agree it is a non-issue but for polar opposite reasons!

 

[Akrapovic]

Don't know if you meant that to read as it does? (Do you include UK in your use of "Europe"?)

But I have never used WhatsApp. No-one I know has ever suggested I should use it! Have zero intention of ever installing the app or using it.

I agree it is a non-issue but for polar opposite reasons!

Yes, The UK is part of Europe.

UK: WhatsApp users by age group 2018 | Statista

According to a survey conducted by We Are Flint about the share of WhatsApp users in the United Kingdom (UK), 80 percent of adults aged 18 to 24 are users of the WhatsApp messaging service.

www.statista.com

80% of under 50s in the UK are using WhatsApp. That goes up to 85% if you do under 40s. It really is a complete non-issue. Every-so-often you find one person who doesn't use it, and that's it. It really isn't a big deal trying to work out how to message someone.

 

[rocketbuc]

Yes, The UK is part of Europe.

UK: WhatsApp users by age group 2018 | Statista

According to a survey conducted by We Are Flint about the share of WhatsApp users in the United Kingdom (UK), 80 percent of adults aged 18 to 24 are users of the WhatsApp messaging service.

www.statista.com

80% of under 50s in the UK are using WhatsApp. That goes up to 85% if you do under 40s. It really is a complete non-issue. Every-so-often you find one person who doesn't use it, and that's it. It really isn't a big deal trying to work out how to message someone.

This are terrible numbers. Zuck can do whatever he wants to, Meta will continue to abuse our privacy with WhatsApp and the majority of users have no idea about meta data and the likes.

 

[MacBH928]

Ordinarily I would like to consider such a phone but my carrier neither makes calls nor sends texts reliably esp international. I end up having to rely on WhatsApp (despite me not being a fan of meta) which wouldn’t be available on these phones.

Signal is a much better option but if all your contacts on Whatsapp then no dice...

I feel sorry for those stuck with Whatsapp (not just for being part of Facecrud, but having to ensure every contact you know has the same app to use it to text, and then requiring data)

SMS I use like AIM back in the day, does its job perfectly fine and I don't need those stupid typing indicator dots or any indication someone 'saw' or 'read' my message. I send, wait for a ding, and read. Totally minimalist in the best possible way. No data needed, no app, and no need for every contact to use the same service (and no forced updates--Whatsapp ultimately stops working if your phone is too old, making you feed the consumer cycle I want no part in today).

It does the job fine to keep me in touch with my girlfriend when we're not together (she lives 500 plus miles away). All I ever used a phone to do was play music, take photos of Daisy (a deer I used to know--camera today is far less important) and make calls and send/receive texts. There's really no need for me to have a smartphone. I never used them to their full potential in 2010, and with the ones I loved fondly dead as of the whole forced 3G shutdown that I did NOT vote for, but had no choice in, I cannot use them so flip it is.

I feel better off without smartphones. I no longer deal with endless frustration of the constant changes and forced updates, no longer have headaches from eye strain, and can actually think and learn properly. I no longer have the ability to Google what I need since I deleted most tech and the internet from my life save this one laptop. At work I'm reading actual service books. Doing things 'the old way' is just fun and more useful for me. I feel healthier longterm. I think all these kiddos raised with a smartphone in their hand at age 3 will be having massive eye problems before they turn 30, and have massive anti-social issues and fear of human contact. We're too used to being in front of a screen IMO. My own tech detox has taught me that once unplugged from the Matrix you see the real results and they're scary. I only wish I could unplug everyone else. It's like that Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "the Game" wherein everyone was addicted to a little AR game device that made them 'feel good' (similar to dopamine addiction via TikTok) when they won. If only flashing a strobe light could disable a smartphone.

I share your opinion. As someone who has been online daily for hours for over 2 decades I can tell you that you are correct. The online life is abusive to the human being nervous system and social life. I too am trying to abandon the online life especially the smartphones. I think everyone should put their phones down and use the internet moderately.

I won't deny, 24/7 instant access to the internet taught me so much and made me get things much faster but with this speed advantage you get the disadvantage of being in constant irritation, nervousness, always intense and attention disorder.

In Europe this is a non-issue. Everyone has been on WhatsApp for the best part of a decade (even the tech illiterate) and every sim plan comes with data.

I understand the US is different and they have different issues regarding platforms and data. But in the US WhatsApp is more popular than SMS, iMessage etc all combined. It's a solved issue here.

Edit: Obviously doesn't solve the valid privacy concerns you raise

This are terrible numbers. Zuck can do whatever he wants to, Meta will continue to abuse our privacy with WhatsApp and the majority of users have no idea about meta data and the likes.

Unfortunately I have found people are very reluctant to leave a platform once its established. Its near impossible especially with the non-techies such as older people who just got used to it. I have seen Signal fail to replace Whatsapp although it does the same thing and its free.

I hope somehow there is some sort of awareness campaigns like there is for cigarettes and drugs.