digital dashboard is the worst thing that comes to cars IMO. 20 years ago they were giving warning campaigns not to use cellphone while driving, now you have a mini cinema in the car.
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Why is website design so awful today, generally?
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digital dashboard is the worst thing that comes to cars IMO. 20 years ago they were giving warning campaigns not to use cellphone while driving, now you have a mini cinema in the car.
There's a reason I drive an ancient Ford LTD with the half vinyl top, couch cushion seats, and fully analogue interior. Well, many reasons (comfort being the top priority--every damned modern car rides like an Army Jeep and you feel every bump in the road!)
But it's the fact that any modern vehicle feels like a Starfleet shuttlecraft with way too many screens, buttons and I'm not goin' to Mars, I'm just going out for groceries! The vehicle I posted the screens from is my Boss's. I think it's sorta hilarious how they go to the effort to replace the analogue gauges and instead draw 'fake' ones via skeuomorphism, and it's always a weird thing that cars never got the flat design memo yet (I'm glad and wish phones, tablets didn't either.)
A digital dash board != infotainment system. Besides on the infotainment screens there are lots of legal restrictions, just because there may be a large screen somewhere (quite handy for complete route overview, instead of having an AZ Paper map...) that doesn't mean video on the move is working. Yes, I know you can hack it, but then you are willingly breaking the law in many places around the world.
not sure if sarcastic. You are driving a 40 year old car daily?
the idea is not to give them the option to. Vehicles with large monitors should be banned imo.
Why? And why banned, seem a bit of an overreaction. I love having directions in the binnacle/huddle, have the full route overview on the large screen, and my daughter has spotify on the screen in the passenger dashboard so not removing my information. The 360 cameras look great with multiple areas at the same time.
because I don't want people running Netflix tv show on the road or watching live tv news. If it was map/camera only then ok
I don't want to pilot a sci-fi shuttlecraft with a ton of screens in my face, things beeping, nagging me, and a ride that you feel every damned bump in the road. Yes, I drive a Ford LTD Crown Victoria (it's 35 years old but full on Malaise in its styling) and I couldn't be happier. It's reliable, safe, simple, and fully analog. I don't want to feel like I'm in CyberPunk 2077 or in an episode of Star Trek. I want something that feels comfortable and happy. I'm an old soul. I might like 2010-era UI design and hoped the future that it forecasted would be an optimistic one, some called it Frutiger Aero, but I've never been into modern cars. I've ridden in them, I've worked on them and they're NOT for me.
That part is already against the law. Cars come with it disabled when in motion. The percentage that willingly is breaking that is rather low. I really don't believe in banning for the minority...
Sure, I get that. I got three retro cars myself VW Golf MK2 GTI from 1987, BMW 3 series Coupe E30 1990, and that other classic 1990s Porsche 911.
But then for daily driving I have a Porsche Panamera and my wife a Polestar 2. There are definitely a lot of advantages to the modern cars. But everyone their thing.
But to call for banning something some don’t like it on here I find a really strange reaction.
You're making a false equivalency here. Digital Dashboards are not the same as Infotainment systems, nor do they have the same options as infotainment systems. Digital dashboards are also used in all forms of auto racing including NASCAR, Indycar, and F1 precisely because they can provide a customized view of what the driver views as important.
The only legitimate concern you have has already been addressed through legislation and the developers of these in-vehicle systems, so you're advocating to ban something for no other reason than you don't like it, which is not a valid justification at all.
Even if you say its a digital dashboard, a digital dashboard with a lot to fiddle and menus to dig in is dangerous imo. IIRC they used to have buttons on the steering wheel to keep your eyes on the road. And while probably not enough has passed to test it, monitors are probably going to die as all electronics do. I am not sure how dangerous that would be.
Analogue is true and tested, and a lot less to play with. You want people to look less at the dashboar and more on the road.
They started using monitors to replace analog gauges in airliner cockpits over 40 years ago. Of course, they are redundant with the pilot and copilot having their own copies, but it seems like the technology must be pretty robust at this point - they are using touch-screens on spacecraft now. If they were really failure-prone, I don't think the auto makers would be adopting them so universally.
I replaced my 2017 car with a 2023 over two years ago and it marked a big change with a digital display and menus to replace many of the physical controls on the older model. I am definitely all-in on the digital display, I have it set to just display data (lke the speed as a number, not a fake "gauge") and I like that. Not so happy with the elimination of physical controls and replacing them with menus in many cases. But "it is what it is", the companies are doing it because it's cheaper no doubt. Recently there were problems where some manufacturers were using touch sensitive surfaces instead of buttons for cruise control and people were accidentally activating it while parking, causing accidents. Fortunately, my car doesn't have that.
If somebody wants to drive an old car, that's fine by me. I'm 76, but not too old to adapt to new technology. I rely on my own self-discipline not to get distracted. The only accident I've had in the past 50 years was getting rear-ended while waiting in a line of traffic at a stoplight in 1998.
But it seems like we are getting way off the topic of website design here...
You're lumping in digital dashboards and infotainment systems into a monolithic entity rather than as separate things. Having a digital dashboard is not the same as a touchscreen, nor does it remove buttons/controls from the steering wheel. Even before modern all-digital dashboards became a thing, auto manufacturers have been incorporating elements of digital information into dashboards for decades whether by digital speedometers, odometers, or even temperature/directional indicators.
The problem with modern cars is that the software quickly goes obsolete, so you eventually have inaccurate maps data, features will remain stuck in time (many modern ones from 2013 on lost connectivity features when 3G got shutdown). and there are many more points of failure (features such as adaptive cruise, lane auto keep, auto start stop, etc) that go far beyond having screens replace analogue gauges. Don't get me started on the Mustang Mach-E that failed a software update and nobody could drive their car because it refused to allow driving ability without the update.
I'd like to see a modern Hyundai or any other make last 35 years on its original engine, transmission and other parts.
I'd like to say though that in regards to spacecraft, the shuttle was a massive failure. We went farther into space with less computing power than a pocket calculator in 1969 (the Apollo missions) and we never left our own orbit since the space shuttle. Skylab got scrapped, there have been two major shuttle explosions yet the Apollo mission never lost anyone in space, despite the explosion on board Apollo 13. Sometimes the older way is the better way.
In regards to aircraft, the 'glass cockpit' always has fully analogue standby instruments because there have been failures in the FAC computers and aircraft that have lost all engine power (US Airways 1549, TACA 110, etc) lost all those digital fancy gauges when their engines conked out. Even the RAT can't restore function to the glass cockpit so there have always been fully-analogue standby instruments in case that happens, because it has happened. We don't get even that in a modern car. I've seen many junked that weren't even 20 years old because the infotainment display (which houses climate controls in some models) failed, or the main instrument panel software got corrupted (a 2017 Equinox got stuck in Metric and couldn't be restored to Imperial and therefore couldh't be legally licensed outside Indiana because to get a Kentucky (or other state) title transfer you got to have it inspected and it will fail if it's in Metric mode.
I'd like to see a modern Hyundai or any other make last 35 years on its original engine, transmission and other parts.
I'd like to say though that in regards to spacecraft, the shuttle was a massive failure. We went farther into space with less computing power than a pocket calculator in 1969 (the Apollo missions) and we never left our own orbit since the space shuttle. Skylab got scrapped, there have been two major shuttle explosions yet the Apollo mission never lost anyone in space, despite the explosion on board Apollo 13. Sometimes the older way is the better way.
In regards to aircraft, the 'glass cockpit' always has fully analogue standby instruments because there have been failures in the FAC computers and aircraft that have lost all engine power (US Airways 1549, TACA 110, etc) lost all those digital fancy gauges when their engines conked out. Even the RAT can't restore function to the glass cockpit so there have always been fully-analogue standby instruments in case that happens, because it has happened. We don't get even that in a modern car. I've seen many junked that weren't even 20 years old because the infotainment display (which houses climate controls in some models) failed, or the main instrument panel software got corrupted (a 2017 Equinox got stuck in Metric and couldn't be restored to Imperial and therefore couldh't be legally licensed outside Indiana because to get a Kentucky (or other state) title transfer you got to have it inspected and it will fail if it's in Metric mode.
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i hate the look of digital dashboard, but none the less, if thats what others like i am fine. What was I talking about is infotainment . Check out this mini-theater in Tesla. It has Twitch streaming 😭
I have a feeling the monitor quality on those $100M airplanes is different from a $20K camry.
and here you go, one of my problems with computer controlled elements. I do not know what going on in the programming world, but back in the 80s, electronic devices never bugged or failed AFAIK. It worked forever. I guess the keep it stupid simple method is best.
👆🏻so much this
also i think this modern software is failing because they are outsourcing it and programmed in some high level language like Java that is prone to bugs. I bet old software was made in assembly where errors are near none-existing
Huh?! Well you won't find many incar entertainment systems running on Java 🤣. And have made and seen plenty of bugs in low level languages.
Actually, Ford Sync (previously MyFordTouch) runs on Windows XP of all things. If you ever saw one reboot itself it will check 'disks' much the same way Windows does. Microsoft develops Ford Sync (it's called Sync by Microsoft!) so the old running joke about Windows running on a car sadly came true.
Most of the problems regarding touch screen interfaces is the harsh environment that a car exists on. Temp extremes, humidity extremes, bumps, road quality, time, it all ends up causing more problems.
Yes, even in the '80s software failed and probably more often. Anyone remember the 1988 Buick Reatta? The first car to have an 'infotainment' display? That CRT failed long before anything else did. There was even a warning light in the instrument cluster that just said 'Electrical Problem' and it came on when the interface/CANbus died, making both the CRT as well as the instrument cluster (a vacuum fluorescent display) no longer function. You would just have warning lights and nothing else.
Most of the problems regarding touch screen interfaces is the harsh environment that a car exists on. Temp extremes, humidity extremes, bumps, road quality, time, it all ends up causing more problems.
Yes, even in the '80s software failed and probably more often. Anyone remember the 1988 Buick Reatta? The first car to have an 'infotainment' display? That CRT failed long before anything else did. There was even a warning light in the instrument cluster that just said 'Electrical Problem' and it came on when the interface/CANbus died, making both the CRT as well as the instrument cluster (a vacuum fluorescent display) no longer function. You would just have warning lights and nothing else.
It is notably easier to find bugs in assembly than to find bugs in the latest JavaScript framework code. Reason: More abstraction = more bugs, harder to find.
up to say around 99-2000 , i never recall having a problem with software in electronics including cars, vcr, dvd, playstation etc. desktop computers yes, but here i am talking about the "infotainment" of a car .
The argument is if you keep things simple they work like an appliance, but if you keep adding functionality it will get too complex => failure. And I do not believe in failure in appliances or cars. I rather drive a mechanical Ford from 2005 over 2025 tesla that will malfunction in the middle of the road due a buggy firmware auto updated over night while i was sleeping.
There were plenty of bugs in cars, and logic in cars, in engine management systems, alarm systems, door unlocking, light logic. And even when no controllers (regardless how basic) were involved there were basic manufacturing and design flaws. Nobody produces a flawless product. Same with things like VCR/DVD/Playstation, never had a disc that wouldn't play? Colours that are produced wrongly. Progressive scan output not working, you name it. Plenty of bugs, and that is not even taking the interactivity into account. Same with CD players that couldn't address certain tracks, got the basic displays wrong. Nope I think you've got some selective memory going on there.
I'm watching SpongeBob Squarepants on a CRT TV from the year 2000. Never needed repair. Great picture. Let's see a modern LCD or OLED TV make it 25 years without a major issue and we'll talk. Newer ain't always better. Oldest DVD player in my home is a Toshiba from 1998, still working. I got stereo combos from the 1970s that work fine.
But cars have been bug-ridden messes each time they attempt to make them 'high-tech'. The infamous 1981 Chrysler Imperial, the Cadillac HT-4100 engine (early '80s EFI, the 'HT' stood for 'High Tech'), the Cadillac V8-6-4 (first attempt at variable displacement), the 'Electronic Spark Control' on M-body Mopars, and lest we forget the first airbag, the ACRS, or Air Cushion Restraint System in the 1970s.
"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
The first infotainment was the 1986 Buick Riviera, the 1988 Buick Reatta, and the Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (that one even integrated a cellular phone into the touch-screen) and it failed miserably. Why try it again? Why would it go off any better a second time? Only difference today is that people don't make a big stink and affect the company as they did when the Reatta didn't sell.
We also live in a world of reduced choices, or as I call it, the 'illusion of choice'. In 1986, if you didn't want a fancy digital dash, you had options. Want a landyacht? A sports car? a full-size van or minivan? You had choices. You want simple? fine. Want high tech? You got it!
Today, however, you get like three options and they all have the same crap. There's a reason that 90% of the vehicles on the road are crossovers and it's not because people wanted them. It's because no other option exists in the same bracket, as there are no longer full-size sedans, or station wagons, so the crossover filled that spot. People bought what they could, worked with what they had. Back then, however, the customer had some say in what direction a company went. Today we're complacent lazy slobs who don't seem to care anymore.
Heck, there used to be myriad designs for smartphones, sliders, slabs, flips, large screens, small screens. You used to have a choice in preferred OS, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Meego, WebOS, Android, iOS. This world of limited choice sucks. I'd love to shop Kmart, but I can't. It's gone because Walmart couldn't stand to have competition and bought our two locations to shut them down.
I'm sick of companies making decisions on their own and we are just supposed to accept it without question. Back then, a company listened to customer demand and acted accordingly. Today, they change stuff and we just have to accept it, because no matter how much we might beg, and plead, and cry, they do what they do anyway. And since no other option or other company exists that thinks differently, we have nowhere else to go. We can't choose Ford over GM if we can't get a full-size sedan from GM, because Ford ain't got them either. Nobody does. We have no say. Companies just put the cart before the horse now and we accept it. If Chevrolet launched the Vega today instead of in the early 1970s, it'd sell, even if it was a pile of garbage because today people don't mind buying the same thing over and over and over, nobody cares about quality anymore.
But cars have been bug-ridden messes each time they attempt to make them 'high-tech'. The infamous 1981 Chrysler Imperial, the Cadillac HT-4100 engine (early '80s EFI, the 'HT' stood for 'High Tech'), the Cadillac V8-6-4 (first attempt at variable displacement), the 'Electronic Spark Control' on M-body Mopars, and lest we forget the first airbag, the ACRS, or Air Cushion Restraint System in the 1970s.
"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
The first infotainment was the 1986 Buick Riviera, the 1988 Buick Reatta, and the Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (that one even integrated a cellular phone into the touch-screen) and it failed miserably. Why try it again? Why would it go off any better a second time? Only difference today is that people don't make a big stink and affect the company as they did when the Reatta didn't sell.
We also live in a world of reduced choices, or as I call it, the 'illusion of choice'. In 1986, if you didn't want a fancy digital dash, you had options. Want a landyacht? A sports car? a full-size van or minivan? You had choices. You want simple? fine. Want high tech? You got it!
Today, however, you get like three options and they all have the same crap. There's a reason that 90% of the vehicles on the road are crossovers and it's not because people wanted them. It's because no other option exists in the same bracket, as there are no longer full-size sedans, or station wagons, so the crossover filled that spot. People bought what they could, worked with what they had. Back then, however, the customer had some say in what direction a company went. Today we're complacent lazy slobs who don't seem to care anymore.
Heck, there used to be myriad designs for smartphones, sliders, slabs, flips, large screens, small screens. You used to have a choice in preferred OS, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Meego, WebOS, Android, iOS. This world of limited choice sucks. I'd love to shop Kmart, but I can't. It's gone because Walmart couldn't stand to have competition and bought our two locations to shut them down.
I'm sick of companies making decisions on their own and we are just supposed to accept it without question. Back then, a company listened to customer demand and acted accordingly. Today, they change stuff and we just have to accept it, because no matter how much we might beg, and plead, and cry, they do what they do anyway. And since no other option or other company exists that thinks differently, we have nowhere else to go. We can't choose Ford over GM if we can't get a full-size sedan from GM, because Ford ain't got them either. Nobody does. We have no say. Companies just put the cart before the horse now and we accept it. If Chevrolet launched the Vega today instead of in the early 1970s, it'd sell, even if it was a pile of garbage because today people don't mind buying the same thing over and over and over, nobody cares about quality anymore.
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Most of this was hardware problems not software malfunction. I don't recall any pre mid-1990s car breaking down because of software.
this👆🏻
This is called late-stage capitalism. All car models now are the same in different sizes. I went to car dealership can couldn't tell if a BMW car was 5 series or 7 series.
Most surprising is how consumers are willing to keep buying faulty products like its the norm. I seriously do not understand people who buy Range Rover or BMW for high price when they know in 3 year time it will sell for like 30% of its original price and will be taken to the dealership on monthly basis to be fixed. Meanwhile, I have 1998 toyota that has been driven daily and still works with the cheapest spare parts.
Lol this explains everything. Yup I’m that person who use to have a full far Range Rover Supercharged. Had it for five years, needed nothing but normal maintenance and a bit of high octane fuel. I don’t know why people who would never own such a vehicle make such generic comments. My daughter still has her mini-me in a Range Rover Evoque. Again, nothing but just normal maintenance.
I drive twice a month through four countries, between our main residence and the one we are doing up. We like reliable, fast and comfortable cars.
But yes this explains a lot in the difference of what we expect online. A Toyota is functional no doubt about it, been in many a mini cab taxi, but that is about it. It’s not delightful in use, let alone exquisite or tactiele in its operation.