Why is website design so awful today, generally?

[Michael Scrip]

It helps that most mice have a vertical scroll wheel. Few have a horizontal one.

Exactly!

We're so accustomed to vertical scrolling on web pages. Decades at this point.

So when they want us to go horizontal it seems odd.

It's especially frustrating on pages with a lot of content. You have to scroll up and down to see all the stuff... but there's also stuff hiding in horizontal sliders that you might miss.

It's one thing if it's a single page with a horizontal slider. I think we can all figure that out.

But it's another thing if you have to go up and down... and sideways!

🤣

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It helps that most mice have a vertical scroll wheel. Few have a horizontal one.

Magic mouse, magic pad all have that. As do my trading mouses as it is a very common action on big charts.

https://www.macrumors.com/mr-toggleFluid.php?fluid=2

Much much better, love how the top bar now side scrolls 🤣

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Exactly!

We're so accustomed to vertical scrolling on web pages. Decades at this point.

So when they want us to go horizontal it seems odd.

It's especially frustrating on pages with a lot of content. You have to scroll up and down to see all the stuff... but there's also stuff hiding in horizontal sliders that you might miss.

It's one thing if it's a single page with a horizontal slider. I think we can all figure that out.

But it's another thing if you have to go up and down... and sideways!

🤣

Most screens are widescreen, it makes sense to go wide.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Most screens are widescreen, it makes sense to go wide.

Yes... most screens are widescreen.

But they're not that wide. The horizontal scrolling content is still wider than the screen. Way wider!

Thus you have to scroll sideways to view all the content. Which is what we're talking about!

🤣

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I know, and it makes logical sense to me to scroll to the right (or left in other languages) when you have more of the same category. A lot less scrolling then if it was vertical, and also more chance that everything fits on the screen vertically. And good use of those whitespaces that most in this thread have been complaining about, but now it is also not good.

 

[ghanwani]

I know, and it makes logical sense to me to scroll to the right (or left in other languages) when you have more of the same category. A lot less scrolling then if it was vertical, and also more chance that everything fits on the screen vertically. And good use of those whitespaces that most in this thread have been complaining about, but now it is also not good.

View attachment 2475386

I totally ignore using that with MR, but you can't when shopping on Apple (or any retailer in general where you need to be able to view those products).

 

[headlessmike]

Remember the Apple Mighty Mouse? Man, I absolutely hated that tiny trackball! 🤣

Now we have the touch surface on the Magic Mouse, which I also dislike. But regarding Apple's site, unfortunately that appears to copy the UI in the Music and TV media stores. I really don't like it, but I think they're designing for touch interfaces now instead of mice.

I still use the Mighty Mouse regularly on my 2012 iMac running Linux. With a clean ball is works great.

The Magic Mouse though is the best mouse ever built in my opinion. I think I have five of them, two second generation (lightning) and three first generation (AA).

 

[Tozovac]

But isn't that the point, it isn't a book!

Most screens are widescreen, it makes sense to go wide.

But just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Same old argument, and nobody’s going to win.

In the earlier days, when touch interface designers were focused on making breakthroughs, they could focus on simple, clean function.

Now too much awful Web/app/operating system design is lipstick on a pig, ornate for the sake of ornate. Designers gotta design.

Having to slide horizontally and “work extra” like that is a distasteful interface for some (I’d so far is to say they wish it wasn’t there as it distracts from their shopping and reduces their experience) while it’s acceptable for others (it doesn’t distract from their shopping, but…would its absence reduce their experience is a question that Bad Designers and short-sighted users don’t seem to consider)

I think interface gingerbread like this is *sort of* like too much salt in prepared soup brought to the table. Once it’s already in there, it’s too much for user A and worse, can’t be removed (loss) while it’s perfectly fine for user B (win). But if the Cook lightened up on the oversalting, user A won’t find it distasteful (win) and the soup would work too for user B who likes extra salt can add more (win).

No, user B can’t add more horizontal scrolling but I’m sure those who agree with my design taste in this thread will get the analogy and those who always disagree with me will find fault with the analogy. That I think we can agree on.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

🤷‍♂️ Ah well, there are more important things in life to be concerned about than if you need to swipe left a little when your screen is too small Some in this thread don't like it when there is white space, some don't like it when the screen reshapes to the size of the screen, some don't like scrolling left or right as we've always scrolled up and down. There is one consistency though, no design will please everyone. But today, it is a heck of a lot better than it was and way more inclusive and accessible.

 

[Tozovac]

A lot less scrolling then if it was vertical, and also more chance that everything fits on the screen vertically.

So more scrolling one way offscreen is bad but more scrolling another way offscreen is good? 😊

…no design will please everyone…

I couldn’t agree more, of course. But a lot of things that displease one group are often things that aren’t necessarily needed by another group. Just because one group tolerates something and might even enjoy it doesn’t mean it’s worth it for the negatives to others. Truly talented designers can discern the difference I think.

But today, it is a heck of a lot better than it was

Ha, nobody’s gonna win in this thread, but “Better today” is so arguably arguable.

Why was it when my mother first got an iPad, I rarely received frantic frustrating phone calls. Now I’m getting a call every week, sometimes five times a week after any semi-major operating system upgrade.

A lot of the It Just Works went the way of “We Can Do THIS and with fewer buttons and fewer visual aids for intuitive obviousness.” Made even worse by the unavoidable increasing complexity and features and functions and the occasional true innovation added each new year. If this older-than-25, able bodied, non-hearing nor sight impaired user feels that way too often, then how that’s not recognized as an additional distraction for users needing aids for accessibility and inclusiveness kind of stumps me.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So more scrolling one way offscreen is bad but more scrolling another way offscreen is good? 😊

Most screens are wider than tall, so measurably less scrolling.

I couldn’t agree more, of course. But a lot of things that displease one group are often things that aren’t necessarily needed by another group. Just because one group tolerates something and might even enjoy it doesn’t mean it’s worth it for the negatives to others. Truly talented designers can discern the difference I think.

Sure, they can. But some will moan about anything and remember the past through rose-tinted glasses. Now if they are the target audience, then absolutely cater for them, reality is though that they are not in most cases. But each business can measure and verify that for themselves.

Ha, nobody’s gonna win in this thread, but “Better today” is so arguably arguable.

Actually, it is measurable, we have more stats than ever before. And more regulations to comply with.

Why was it when my mother first got an iPad, I rarely received frantic frustrating phone calls. Now I’m getting a call every week, sometimes five times a week after any semi-major operating system upgrade.

Well, there is an obvious other element to this, people do get older. Mine pretends she can't check out her shopping, reality is that she likes the phone call for me to do it As in the meantime she can shop for investment properties online.

A lot of the It Just Works went the way of “We Can Do THIS and with fewer buttons and fewer visual aids for intuitive obviousness.” Made even worse by the unavoidable increasing complexity and features and functions and the occasional true innovation added each new year. If this older-than-25, able bodied, non-hearing nor sight impaired user feels that way too often, then how that’s not recognized as an additional distraction for users needing aids for accessibility and inclusiveness kind of stumps me.

LOL A lot of the complaints in this thread are actually due to catering for those with accessibility needs and making it more inclusive 🤣🤷‍♂️ That is precisely why there are fluid responsive designs.

 

[Tozovac]

Most screens are wider than tall, so measurably less scrolling.

Sure, they can. But some will moan about anything and remember the past through rose-tinted glasses. Now if they are the target audience, then absolutely cater for them, reality is though that they are not in most cases. But each business can measure and verify that for themselves.

Actually, it is measurable, we have more stats than ever before. And more regulations to comply with.

Well, there is an obvious other element to this, people do get older. Mine pretends she can't check out her shopping, reality is that she likes the phone call for me to do it As in the meantime she can shop for investment properties online.

LOL A lot of the complaints in this thread are actually due to catering for those with accessibility needs and making it more inclusive 🤣🤷‍♂️ That is precisely why there are fluid responsive designs.

You convinced me to know you know you’re right on all accounts and others’ views matter not much.

As in the meantime she can shop for investment properties online.

Very “subtle” flex lol.

 

[Tozovac]

Although I’m not a fan of everything I saw yesterday, I’m happy to say the flat design fad is certainly on its way out.

All the liquid glass transparency is more about “look what we can do” than “this is an improvement and function because _________” so I very much anticipate that aesthetic to unfortunately find its way into website design within four months.

 

[iHorseHead]

Although I’m not a fan of everything I saw yesterday, I’m happy to say the flat design fad is certainly on its way out.

All the liquid glass transparency is more about “look what we can do” than “this is an improvement and function because _________” so I very much anticipate that aesthetic to unfortunately find its way into website design within four months.

Really? Do you think it'll reflect on websites as well? I wanna see MacRumors liquid glass design.

 

[ghanwani]

Although I’m not a fan of everything I saw yesterday, I’m happy to say the flat design fad is certainly on its way out.

All the liquid glass transparency is more about “look what we can do” than “this is an improvement and function because _________” so I very much anticipate that aesthetic to unfortunately find its way into website design within four months.

It's funny how bad ideas go viral and simplicity and ease of use ALWAYS loses.

 

[Tozovac]

Do you think it'll reflect on websites as well?

In my opinion, if history repeats itself as it has at least since as long as I've been a Mac not a PC starting around 2005, yes "most everyone" will copy what Apple does. Physical devices, websites, automotive interiors, etc.

Apple went flat design and all-white with low contrast thin grey font with the virtual elimination of borders/zones and button shapes around iOS7 time, which resulted (IMHO) in an artsy-infused and less intuitive interface full of wasted unused space.

Within a few months many websites went flat with lots of wasted space, empty white space, thin fonts, flat buttons that weren't obvious they were for pressing/action, etc. Simplisafe reworked their keypad to be monochromatic white and black with round buttons reminiscent of Apple's then-too-white-and-grey monochromatic interface. Playstation 5 came out all monochromatic white and black (imagine that) and replaced their 4-color action keys on the right side of the controller with monochromatic white-out low-contrast symbols that are really difficult to differentiate quickly (I don't play enough to memorize them, which I'm sure I would after a few days of heavy playing but which will never happen).

I dislike the reduction in readability/usability from any transparent interface effects, whether it's Windows Vista or even the geniuses at Apple. Just too distracting, where my eyes are constantly trying to un-blur anything blurred and obscured by the transparency/glass effect. Or worse, readability of the text in the glass bubble is worsened due to blending in too much with aspects of the blurred out background. So once less skilled designers try to apply aspects of this "Liquid Glass" business to websites not because their site was broken but instead to follow the fad, I'm sure some of the first ones out the chute could be really awful. First liquid glass interface I see I'll be posting here lol.

Undoubtedly there are some improvements I saw yesterday in the various OS's across the devices. But I don't think this Liquid (gag) Glass effect fixed something that was broken. It's just mostly new to Apple and different than before.

 

[Tozovac]

It's funny how bad ideas go viral and simplicity and ease of use ALWAYS loses.

This wasn't true back when Apple was the dark horse underdog and introduced some remarkably good ideas that were so different than Microsoft Windows by being rooted in simplicity and ease of use first, and a beautiful package/interface second.

Around 2013, interface design got so good, even with some of the overkill skeuomorphism aspects that didn't bother me but angered others to the point of SDS (Skeuomorphic Derangement Syndrome), that there was suddenly less room to innovate but still a desire to bring out something new to the table. (Beavers build dams...Designers design...). That is, unless you forced innovation for the sake of something different (Jony Ive, iOS7, cough cough).

 

[MacBH928]

It's funny how bad ideas go viral and simplicity and ease of use ALWAYS loses.

bells and whistles attract public attention and grow sales because its the NNNEWWWWW thing. basic flat design on the other hand is boring and ugly . There is an area in the middle where where it looks pleasant and functional at the same time.

OS X was peak design. That GUI revolutionized the world. Just look at where we were and where we got!
buttons so good you could lick them OFF the screen 🤣

This wasn't true back when Apple was the dark horse underdog and introduced some remarkably good ideas that were so different than Microsoft Windows by being rooted in simplicity and ease of use first, and a beautiful package/interface second.

Around 2013, interface design got so good, even with some of the overkill skeuomorphism aspects that didn't bother me but angered others to the point of SDS (Skeuomorphic Derangement Syndrome), that there was suddenly less room to innovate but still a desire to bring out something new to the table. (Beavers build dams...Designers design...). That is, unless you forced innovation for the sake of something different (Jony Ive, iOS7, cough cough).

idk why people get upset with skeumorphism. It looks cool and you know how to use it.

ios 7 was a much needed refresh. It wasn't that ios 6 was bad, but kind of dated.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Design trends come and go.

Look at cars. They'll be boxy and square for a few years... then they'll get rounded and swoopy for a few years... then go back to being boxy and square.

That's just how the car looks... it doesn't affect your experience driving it.

But when software or websites make reading text difficult... or when there's too much white space... that's when I have a problem with unnecessary design changes.

 

[polyphenol]

Design trends come and go.

Look at cars. They'll be boxy and square for a few years... then they'll get rounded and swoopy for a few years... then go back to being boxy and square.

That's just how the car looks... it doesn't affect your experience driving it.

But when software or websites make reading text difficult... or when there's too much white space... that's when I have a problem with unnecessary design changes.

If I look at cars, I realise how much I hate grey paint!

So many cars which, except when you notice a bit of sheen, could be at the primer stage of a respray.

I notice the colour before the ugly box.

(Hopefully popularity of grey is waning.)

 

[Herbert123]

Look at cars. They'll be boxy and square for a few years... then they'll get rounded and swoopy for a few years... then go back to being boxy and square.

99% of all cars nowadays are explicitly designed to look angry and aggressive with mostly insectoid eyes.

Very ugly design in my opinion. I favour happy looking cars and vehicles.