Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why is Windows so bad?
- Thread starter ldburroughs
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
railthinner said:
I don't read /. everyday, but I do visit frequently. And I have to say this post has some of the most hilarious replies I have ever seen on it or any other such nerd-forum, ours included.
If you haven't already, I recommend reading to be informed of a real Windows vulnerability, but also for some geek-humor of the highest caliber.
X-ing out
I´m not sure if someone else has addressed this already, it´s a long thread
I´ll give you one good reason:
Imagine if you´re setting up a page layout in Quark or InDesign. Sometimes you need to open several of the placed graphics to make changes or adjustments. If the graphics app, say it´s Illustrator, quits when you close an edited graphic, you´ll have to spend extra time re-launching the application everytime you need to make another change.
However, apps that don´t open documents normally quits when x-ing the application window, for instance System Preferences.
ldburroughs said:
I´m not sure if someone else has addressed this already, it´s a long thread
I´ll give you one good reason:
Imagine if you´re setting up a page layout in Quark or InDesign. Sometimes you need to open several of the placed graphics to make changes or adjustments. If the graphics app, say it´s Illustrator, quits when you close an edited graphic, you´ll have to spend extra time re-launching the application everytime you need to make another change.
However, apps that don´t open documents normally quits when x-ing the application window, for instance System Preferences.
ldburroughs said:
Windows XP is based on the NT kernel which doesn't BSOD. But 98 and ME (and previous) were, and they BSODed like crazy.
ldburroughs said:
This is so that I can close all my windows in Preview but still have the application open. When I want to open the next JPEG in the list, or a different PDF, it takes less time to open because the application doesn't have to start up again. In Safari, oft times I close all of the windows so that I don't have to open Safari again next time I want to go to a website-- instead I just Command+Tab to Safari and open up a new window and start browsing.
Some applications (iPhoto) close if you close their main window. This is because there is no point to them being around with that window gone. But if I want to close my current Word document and then open an existing one, I can close that window and then open the document I want without having to quit Word like on Windows.
Yes, in Windows you can close the active document but then you stare at a dark grey screen. That isn't closing the window, that's just closing the innards of the Word window!
brap said:
They aren't blue though!
And I've always wondered what that means...
And "DLL Hell" is something that only a good ol' reinstall fixes. Really sucks is when those DLLs control the CD-RW
What did we do before USB flash drives?
(Answer: got angry at MS as you made a million floppies. Yes, did that once.
)over 20 yrs later- Windows a waste of time...
as a kid i skipped high school to write games and sell them to software companies.. then i became an engineer and designed parts of space-ships (fuel tanks) and Boeing/Airbus/Fokker aircraft... then i reengineered big banks with ERP and CRM and laid off lots of workers (all with happy better places to work). A PhD or 2 as well in things like AI and industrial engineering.
Unix was great but techy, Windows was never any good and a waste of time (may i count the ways that you ruined my day..), Apple II was great, Mac i never used, and OSX is a dream- quality, usability, stability, and price.
Bottom line, as Sir Clive Sinclair said (cambridge U boffin, inventor of calculator, and PC innovator when the UK had-per-head more computers than anywhere on the planet) 'the last 20 years have seen a backward-step in the average usability of computers to leverage ability.'
Being a techie is not "value-adding", it's the result of your creativity that matters.
Enough lecture...
as a kid i skipped high school to write games and sell them to software companies.. then i became an engineer and designed parts of space-ships (fuel tanks) and Boeing/Airbus/Fokker aircraft... then i reengineered big banks with ERP and CRM and laid off lots of workers (all with happy better places to work). A PhD or 2 as well in things like AI and industrial engineering.
Unix was great but techy, Windows was never any good and a waste of time (may i count the ways that you ruined my day..), Apple II was great, Mac i never used, and OSX is a dream- quality, usability, stability, and price.
Bottom line, as Sir Clive Sinclair said (cambridge U boffin, inventor of calculator, and PC innovator when the UK had-per-head more computers than anywhere on the planet) 'the last 20 years have seen a backward-step in the average usability of computers to leverage ability.'
Being a techie is not "value-adding", it's the result of your creativity that matters.
Enough lecture...
brap, yup Windows XP can and will BSOD - but they are very infrequent.brap said:
I have been running WinXP since it came out and I use my PC a lot and i only ever got BSOD once or twice when I was having issues with a new videocard. I had a bad driver or something and that was causing the BSOD. That was about two years ago, have not had any since.
I could complain about Win9x until I am blue in the face. However, Windows XP is a stable operating system. I have run it for weeks and sometimes a month or two without rebooting. I just recently got my Mac mini and within a week I had a system freeze up that required me to hard boot, but I'm not going t whine about it. These things happen in computing.
well to be honest i do think that windows suck, not because of all these DLL things or what the OS is based on whether its NT or BSOD. but because of spywares and such, my parents use a chinese version windows and its hard for me to clean all their junk because i cant read what its saying. my parents dont surf porn any anything like that but chinese websites have tons of spyware advertisements and so on and because they dont understand computers that much they dont really know what they are doing. cleaning up after them has been a pain in the ass, along with my little sister who loves to surf stupid art pages that are also loaded with spywares. after awhile i got tired of cleaning and just left their computers alone. i purchased a mac out of curiosity and never looked back. my parents love my mac cause it never crashes while they are reading their news and so on, and no spywares are ever installed onto my mac. nor do they have to worry about a slow boot or anything like that cause nothing is tying it down. i still use windows for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to play HL2 when im bored (and thats very rare) played it 2x since i got it and i got it the first day it came out. i hate windows cause to me it was a nightmare to maintain and im a lazy bastard.
angelneo said:
again some miss the point. You not normal among the ones that just keep spewing out complete BS and crap that not true about windows but there is more crap spewed who refuse to believe other wise than I ever seen on PC forums about mac.
I guess its true. Some people here do sometimes go overboard.Timelessblur said:
Personally, my windows is still doing ok apart from the fact that I have to perform reformat every few months or so. (I guess it is ingrained into my mentality) and the usual maintenance.
angelneo said:
I will never understand how people have a problem with maintenances. Lets see virus scans and all the scans done while I am asleep so that is not in the way. Refomating my current windows computer has not been reformated since it was built this summer, the laptop is going on 2 years along with the family desktop. Scans and all that is done while people are sleeping so those dont get in the way.
The maintences I do have to do no one (even you mac users can not advoid) is choosing what programs to remove or install, moving diffent files around to get them in the folders I want and orginzed in a way I want them (most of them being pictures or Video files) and removing stuff from my hard drive to free up space. By on that it just looking over the reports in the moring when I wake up seeing if any red flags have come up which 95-99% of the time their are no red flags. The family computer at home when I go home I look though the logs just because I not around to see any of the reports from the weekly 4am virus scan and spyware scan. I just want to know what shape the computer is and the last few times I just had to tweak a few things to get everything back in order mostly getting some updates back in order and doing any request my parents what done on it but nougthing that effects the system it self.
Why isn't it the best?
The thing that puzzles me is that all the money Microsoft pours into Windows doesn't seem to reflect the product that they are selling. The functions that an operation system has to do are very "standard" in the sense that ascii is ascii, TCP is TCP, HTML is HTML. An OS at it's core is not overly complex, but when it must accommodate for a GUI and a wide variety of input devices and software extensions things get very complex. What puzzles me is that various companies have come up with ideas on how to go about linking this complex attachment to the core OS. When users must learn how to maintain the very software that is meant to avoid such interface complexity with the core OS, the rationale for a GUI and OS extensions has failed. I don't think Microsoft has created the best way so far in creating this link for users. I am not saying Apple has created the best way so far either, but for the amount of money they spend compared to Microsoft, it doesn't make sense. I think we can all agree that OS X is on par if not exceeding Windows in this area. Even open source projects seem to avoid this need for user intervention with the system. I just don't understand how a system can fail at its very function and still be a leader in its industry. Perhaps it is just the monopolistic power Microsoft has that instills a false sense of security into customers to stick with what "everyone else has". It seems as though every other industry's main goal is to push forward with new thinking on how things should work. Automobiles, Cell Phones, Fashion, Construction. Why does this thread even exist? How can they squander their money on such a problem ridden product? I don't get it!
The thing that puzzles me is that all the money Microsoft pours into Windows doesn't seem to reflect the product that they are selling. The functions that an operation system has to do are very "standard" in the sense that ascii is ascii, TCP is TCP, HTML is HTML. An OS at it's core is not overly complex, but when it must accommodate for a GUI and a wide variety of input devices and software extensions things get very complex. What puzzles me is that various companies have come up with ideas on how to go about linking this complex attachment to the core OS. When users must learn how to maintain the very software that is meant to avoid such interface complexity with the core OS, the rationale for a GUI and OS extensions has failed. I don't think Microsoft has created the best way so far in creating this link for users. I am not saying Apple has created the best way so far either, but for the amount of money they spend compared to Microsoft, it doesn't make sense. I think we can all agree that OS X is on par if not exceeding Windows in this area. Even open source projects seem to avoid this need for user intervention with the system. I just don't understand how a system can fail at its very function and still be a leader in its industry. Perhaps it is just the monopolistic power Microsoft has that instills a false sense of security into customers to stick with what "everyone else has". It seems as though every other industry's main goal is to push forward with new thinking on how things should work. Automobiles, Cell Phones, Fashion, Construction. Why does this thread even exist? How can they squander their money on such a problem ridden product? I don't get it!
Edot said:
As someone that has worked as a developer of operating systems, I would disagree with your comment. An OS at it's core is VERY complex. The most complex piece of software that will ever run on any machine is certainly it's operating system. An operating system must babysit applications by providing them with memory and answer requests for service by said applications, and all the time figuring out who to give processor attention to. Remember that every application request for IO must be serviced by the kernel.
Consider Linux. The operating system itself does not have it's own GUI, rather it uses something such as X11 to provide that. Linux is incredibly complex without considering the added complexity of X11.
The GUI is "just another application" to many of today's popular operating systems. A very special application with a LOT of it's own special little hooks, but an application nonetheless.
(BTW, Windows definitely lacks in the human-computer interaction area. It simply does not behave as a person would expect it to behave. It should follow the "Rule of least surprise" -- a computer should not do things that shock or confuse it's users. I didn't care much for the earlier Mac OS's but Mac OS X is very intuitive, and definitely my operating system of choice. Of course Windows is not that hard to use, but I am certainly more productive on a Mac or Unix computer.)
Mechcozmo said:They aren't blue though!
And I've always wondered what that means...
And "DLL Hell" is something that only a good ol' reinstall fixes. Really sucks is when those DLLs control the CD-RW
Sure they're blue! =) I've only ever seen them when trying to use dodgy memory, and my bosses laptop used to do it every 40 minutes, I believe there was something wrong with the wireless device. Silly Dell computers, he eventually bought a nice Toshiba and is quite happy.
DLL Hell is supposedly on the way out with the new microsoft.net way of dealing with libraries. I've dealt with .net on a big application server, and I did not encounter DLL hell, maybe a bit of XML hell though.
Microsoft is always a bit behind the times. UNIX solved library versioning ages ago, and I mean AGES. Windows seems to be proof of the mythical man-month: you can not simply throw more programmers, managers, and money at problems, it really does make things worse. This is more of a managerial problem at MS and does not reflect their programmers, who are quite talented. (Isn't this always the case?)
I seem to remember they were in Windows 2000. Anyway, BSOD can be an acronym for black screen of death, can't it?Mechcozmo said:
Absolutely, I was jokingly making the point that if you try hard enough, and sometimes if you don't, my old friend the IRQL stop, otherwise known as "Error D1", will show its face.feakbeak said:
cait-sith said:
I am not saying that the logic involved in the kernel is not complex, but a standard UNIX OS is only 100MB-200MB in size. Compared to OS X which adds a GUI and support for lots of other IO and protocols ups it to 2GB+. What I am saying is that making that extra 2GB work as well as the 200MB does is much more of a task.
Timelessblur said:
True, but I don't need an uninstaller to get rid of the program nor do I need an installer to install it.
Mac-- drag and drop an application
Windows-- install, restart, and pray that you don't enter DLL Hell. Well, more often than not Install and restart. But sometimes, more often that should be allowed, you enter DLL Hell.
cait-sith said:
Hehe. Right... laptop I saw once went crazy after new printer was installed-- it wouldn't standby or hibernate. Bad news for a laptop. Had to disable the COM1 and COM3 ports (which it had conflicts with) to find out it had issues with the 56k modem. Disabled that too. Then it started to not like the COM3 port so I deleted it. Then it worked.
Don't know why...brap said:I seem to remember they were in Windows 2000. Anyway, BSOD can be an acronym for black screen of death, can't it?
Absolutely, I was jokingly making the point that if you try hard enough, and sometimes if you don't, my old friend the IRQL stop, otherwise known as "Error D1", will show its face.
I'd vote that you don't need to try hard at all....
cait-sith said:
That's it! That's why I love my Mac. Its more productive because I don't have to think about how to use it. Everything is laid out so that it seems intuitive. And Mac OS X does this a thousand fold better than OS 9 ever did. For example, I remember that there was't really designated places for files, and definitely not for Pictures, Movies, Music, Documents, etc. Everything became cluttered on the desktop until I decided to move it into a folder and off the desktop. Now, with the layout of Panther, I feel obligated to organize my computer. The desktop stays clean except when moving a lot of separate files in a short amount of time.
Another reason I enjoy my Mac is because I use the beige G3 with only a 266 MHz processor and 416 MB of ram, and it seems more responsive than the HP downstairs that my brother got in order to use those websites that write for IE instead of standards *cough*eBay*cough*. True, its a budget PC that was only $700 for everything after rebates, but an Athlon 3200XP+ should be able to out perform a 266 MHz G3 and an integrated graphics card w/ 64 MB of Ram should be able to out perforrm an old ATI card with 4 MB of Ram. Yet applications, especially iTunes, loads faster on my computer, and I don't suffer the annoyingly slow redrawing of application windows when switching between programs.
As for evil mac trolls who seem to insult everybody, it can't be as annoying as somebody who takes every opportunity to "remind" us about how evil and computer illiterate Mac Users are and how they only spend their day insulting the mysterious Windows operating system whom none have ever used even though its the most prevalent OS on the planet, though ot in space, since OS/2 Warp holds an intergalactic monoply.
Try OS/2 Warp today! Now localized in the Klingon Language.
"Warp Speed, Mr. Sulu."
Lol COM ports? Man that laptop is showing some age
I stopped using COM ports after I got rid of my Athlon TBird system. I usually disable them in BIOS to free up IRQ's (just-in-case). Yes, even XP sometimes decided to fubar the IRQ's so, if you're not using the COM/Parallel ports (more than likely nowadays), it is highly suggested you disable them.
I find that most of the utilities and applications I've installed don't require restart. The ones that do are the ones that DEMAND to be run at startup (either they are MS or they are, um how to say this, BAD?).
The one, and only one app I like to have run at startup is Spybot, but I stopped using that (I switched to MS/Giant's AntiSpyware). Other than that, nothing else has required a restart. Picasa? Net Transport? Quicktime/iTunes? (lol) Active Desktop Calendar? Firefox? Thunderbird? MPC? VLC? None of those programs, which I use daily require a restart on their installation.
Well, VLC is a special exception (installs NO dll's, and is pretty much can run on its own, supporting an amazing range of codecs).
I stopped using COM ports after I got rid of my Athlon TBird system. I usually disable them in BIOS to free up IRQ's (just-in-case). Yes, even XP sometimes decided to fubar the IRQ's so, if you're not using the COM/Parallel ports (more than likely nowadays), it is highly suggested you disable them.
I find that most of the utilities and applications I've installed don't require restart. The ones that do are the ones that DEMAND to be run at startup (either they are MS or they are, um how to say this, BAD?).
The one, and only one app I like to have run at startup is Spybot, but I stopped using that (I switched to MS/Giant's AntiSpyware). Other than that, nothing else has required a restart. Picasa? Net Transport? Quicktime/iTunes? (lol) Active Desktop Calendar? Firefox? Thunderbird? MPC? VLC? None of those programs, which I use daily require a restart on their installation.
Well, VLC is a special exception (installs NO dll's, and is pretty much can run on its own, supporting an amazing range of codecs).
My did this thread grow fast...
Guess I'll put my $0.02 in...
I'm a Mac user. I LOVE Mac OS X for it's... what do I call it? Smoothness. You know, how smooth and easy it is to switch tasks, switch windows, and DO things. And it's so problem-less that I now no longer waste days trying to fix things, and instead waste days DOING things. Posting on MacRumors for one
While I'm not a Windows hater, I don't like it. At all. It's not the worst thing to ever grace my LCD display, but it most definitely ain't the best. I do have a Windows box that I use solely for gaming (and the occasional software update on my BlackBerry). I'm seriously thinking of selling it once I finish my games (about four to go). There's nothing that interests me too much on the horizon, and there's TONS of console games that'll make me forget my PC all that faster.
(puts $0.02 in slot) *click* *click*
Guess I'll put my $0.02 in...
I'm a Mac user. I LOVE Mac OS X for it's... what do I call it? Smoothness. You know, how smooth and easy it is to switch tasks, switch windows, and DO things. And it's so problem-less that I now no longer waste days trying to fix things, and instead waste days DOING things. Posting on MacRumors for one
While I'm not a Windows hater, I don't like it. At all. It's not the worst thing to ever grace my LCD display, but it most definitely ain't the best. I do have a Windows box that I use solely for gaming (and the occasional software update on my BlackBerry). I'm seriously thinking of selling it once I finish my games (about four to go). There's nothing that interests me too much on the horizon, and there's TONS of console games that'll make me forget my PC all that faster.
(puts $0.02 in slot) *click* *click*
Mav451 said:Lol COM ports? Man that laptop is showing some age
I stopped using COM ports after I got rid of my Athlon TBird system. I usually disable them in BIOS to free up IRQ's (just-in-case). Yes, even XP sometimes decided to fubar the IRQ's so, if you're not using the COM/Parallel ports (more than likely nowadays), it is highly suggested you disable them.
It only had one "real" serial port. Most Windows boxes do. My box from a year ago has one, and even a new ToughBook has one. Why?!?!?!!!??! Serial DIED with USB YEARS ago! ~sigh~
And I couldn't really enter the BIOS. The BIOS on that laptop consisted of "Startup password" and "Boot order" which was really annoying.
Mechcozmo said:
That is one of the BIGGEST reasons I hate big-time white box builders:
(e.g. Dell, HP, Sony, etc.)
It severely limits your options, in addition to actually having the freedom to manipulate all the settings in your diagnostics. Isn't it odd that the genuine stand-alone motherboards have less problems? E.g., HP had a computer back in 2003 with my mobo, except the one with an integrated GPU. A7N8X-VM or something.
The GPU was acting up, so I wanted to check some things in bios (PCI latency, Aperture Size, PCI or AGP mode, etc.) Guess what? I can't modify anything. -_-
Talk about hands being tied.
Contradictory
First off: I have been using Windows my whole life and I do admit it has some flaws but if you are an itiot and add stupid 3rd party cheap programs to it, of course it is not going to perform as well. You even mentioned that you had KAZAA! THAT IS JUST A PC KILLER IN ITSELF!!! it adds all the spyware, adware...slows your computer...almost all the problems are caused by piracy software and "free stuff" I use itunes and all 3 of my computers run like a charm. Apple spends too much time making their products look "pretty" and not enough time fixing things that annoy people such as compatibility issues and not Xing out the right way. Basically, you get what you give. If you buy your music for $1 a song, you do not have to pay the steep price for a mac or all the software for pc to block that junk.
Cheers!
RedTomato said:I used windows for nearly 10 years till I got a powerbook 6 months ago.
People say how nice XP is - i've never used it - my machine was an Athelon 700mhz, running win 98ii which I built myself. When XP came out, i decided I wasnt gonna invest the time in learning how to use it. I would move to linux. Well, that move never happened, but I got a powerbook instead
The biggest issue for me was the sheer amount of work it took to keep Windows running smoothly and at peak performance. I'd have to:
- regularly defrag,
- regularly update my virus files, sometimes Norton AV would update twice a day or more, which is annoying on dial up.
- run my software firewall, update it to let my chat apps, irc, kazaa through
- run ad-aware
- run norton system doctor
- run pop-blockers
- be very careful about opening attachments in emails
apart from all that, windows 98ii actually ran pretty well for me, it rarely crashed (I've already crashed my shiny new 1.5 ghz PB a couple of times
It did what I needed, so I saw no reason to move to XP on the Athelon 700.
But now I'm happy doing film editing work on my PB, and the Athelon is retired to the attic, possibly to be reborn as a network fileserver one day.
Oh, and after a few inevitable frustrations while learning the ins and out of OSX, I'm genuinely happy with it. I no longer feel like I'm part of some large Evil empire, just part of a smaller Evil empire now
As I say, I've never used XP, but I honestly dont think I could go back to Windows, it's just the aesthetics and the smoothness of the whole experence, the wonder of making my first few film shorts in iMovie, compared to the frustrations I had in Premiere before.
cheers
RedTomato
--A Bush in the hand is worth two Blairs.
First off: I have been using Windows my whole life and I do admit it has some flaws but if you are an itiot and add stupid 3rd party cheap programs to it, of course it is not going to perform as well. You even mentioned that you had KAZAA! THAT IS JUST A PC KILLER IN ITSELF!!! it adds all the spyware, adware...slows your computer...almost all the problems are caused by piracy software and "free stuff" I use itunes and all 3 of my computers run like a charm. Apple spends too much time making their products look "pretty" and not enough time fixing things that annoy people such as compatibility issues and not Xing out the right way. Basically, you get what you give. If you buy your music for $1 a song, you do not have to pay the steep price for a mac or all the software for pc to block that junk.
Cheers!