iPhone 11 Pro Why so much vitriol?

[turbineseaplane]

They honestly pretty much all suck as plain 'ok telephones.

Is any of this because of technology change in terms of analog/digital and IP transmission once on the network, etc?

I just feel like ALL phone calls suck in terms of latency and quality and consistency compared to a copper wire home/biz phone line from 1995.
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Part of it could be because the marketing is so over-the-top

What?

You're not JACKED for the 2020 iPhone 12 Pro Max Turbo Plus Platinum**?

**Same phone as iPhone XS Max but with "more cameras on the back"

 

[jay968]

I was surprised by the vitriol too. Part of it could be because the marketing is so over-the-top. It takes "courage" to remove a headphone jack. A phone is now "pro" and makes professional cameras obsolete, because it can do 4x zoom and has a "pro" font.

Haha, you are so right. A "pro" phone! What essentially is a "pro" phone? One that professional telephone talkers use? I guess this would explain how and why they are all geared towards teenagers! LOL
As far a pro cameras are concerned, don't get me started. I am a pro photographer, been one since the 70s. These phones, ANY of these phones be it Apple, Samsung, Google, whatever are nothing but TOYS compared to a real camera. Period.

 

[russell_314]

I don't understand why some people feel threatened by Apple products. it's like OMG I have a Samsung Note 10+ and he has an iPhone with blue text bubbles... We got it your ____ Android phone has ____ and ____. Most iPhone users don't care. If they cared and wanted an Android phone that's what they would buy. All the Apple didn't innovate or change the phone this year... Apple doesn't innovate just to make some silly gimmick that's useless. Also you guys ever hear of the 5S, 6S, and 7S? Pretty much from iPhone 6 to iPhone 8 looks exactly the same and this is what people wanted. If I wanted to be "innovative" and control my phone like a orchestra conductor I would buy the Note 10+
[doublepost=1568226009][/doublepost]

Haha, you are so right. A "pro" phone! What essentially is a "pro" phone? One that professional telephone talkers use? I guess this would explain how and why they are all geared towards teenagers! LOL
As far a pro cameras are concerned, don't get me started. I am a pro photographer, been one since the 70s. These phones, ANY of these phones be it Apple, Samsung, Google, whatever are nothing but TOYS compared to a real camera. Period.

I'm guessing you carry a DSLR in your pocket every where you go?

 

[Painter2002]

Is any of this because of technology change in terms of analog/digital and IP transmission once on the network, etc?

I just feel like ALL phone calls suck in terms of latency and quality and consistency compared to a copper wire home/biz phone line from 1995.

I’d imagine some of the limitation has to due with phone line technology, but i would be curious if there is a real reason why it doesn’t work. But I still feel like the device has something to do with that lack of quality, as even if you turn on WiFi calling on an iPhone (which theoretically would have a better bandwidth than standard cellular) the voice quality is still poor over a 5g WiFi at 200mbs.

 

[jay968]

I'm guessing you carry a DSLR in your pocket every where you go


Come on, whether I do or I don't has nothing to do with the fact that most any DSLR has the ability to put any cellphone camera to shame! For what it's worth, I do occasionally use my phone's camera. But my point is, the hype over these cameras in these phones...like the Apple presentation yesterday..my god, they make it seem like purchasing a $5000 Nikon is nothing but a waste of money. Nope, I got news for you, the difference in picture quality and control that one has using a DSLR over a phone is astounding. However, if all you do is post selfies on instagram, I guess it really makes no difference to you, now does it.

Yes, there IS a reason why some cameras contain sensors which alone cost more than 5 iphones.

 

[bluespark]

I generally agree with the OP -- the level of vitriol increases every year, and it seems at this point like there's nothing that actually brings excitement to people. I completely get that there are fewer upgrades this year, but these are still really nice phones overall. And I'm especially surprised at those who found the Apple Watch upgrade to be inconsequential. An always-on display is something people have talked about for years, and it's a huge technical achievement.

I hope the OP will check out iJustine's video reviews. Her enthusiasm seems like a breath of fresh air after reading many of the comments here.

 

[Painter2002]

I'm guessing you carry a DSLR in your pocket every where you go?

No but I take it when I actually plan on taking quality photos. Photos I take with my phone are the ones that are snapshots for memories, they don’t have to be picture perfect like they were taken with my DSLR.

That said, I can understand many can’t afford a DSLR camera that costs $600 for a basic model, but then again how many of those people who truly need the best photo quality are going to spend more on a $1200 phone with enough memory to store those beautiful photos, and has fixed lenses? A DSLR sounds like a pretty good deal at that price point. And I would care to wager the number of “Pros” who use an iPhone for professional photography is pretty small. Let’s be real on what an iPhone is... it’s in the name... a phone.
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.. most any DSLR has the ability to put any cellphone camera to shame!.

Key thing here is that the a DSLR takes more work and knowledge on how to take a quality photo with the desired effect. A DSLR is a little less point an shoot, although they are more capable in that department than they used to be. iPhone has arguably become one of the best point and shoot cameras out there.

But that said, I agree with you here, let’s not confuse the camera quality of an iPhone with that of a DSLR. You are comparing a pint and shoot camera with a true DSLR and that’s not a proper comparison. They are two different beasts.

 

[russell_314]

No but I take it when I actually plan on taking quality photos. Photos I take with my phone are the ones that are snapshots for memories, they don’t have to be picture perfect like they were taken with my DSLR.

That said, I can understand many can’t afford a DSLR camera that costs $600 for a basic model, but then again how many of those people who truly need the best photo quality are going to spend more on a $1200 phone with enough memory to store those beautiful photos, and has fixed lenses? A DSLR sounds like a pretty good deal at that price point. And I would care to wager the number of “Pros” who use an iPhone for professional photography is pretty small. Let’s be real on what an iPhone is... it’s in the name... a phone.
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Key thing here is that the a DSLR takes more work and knowledge on how to take a quality photo with the desired effect. A DSLR is a little less point an shoot, although they are more capable in that department than they used to be. iPhone has arguably become one of the best point and shoot cameras out there.

But that said, I agree with you here, let’s not confuse the camera quality of an iPhone with that of a DSLR. You are comparing a pint and shoot camera with a true DSLR and that’s not a proper comparison. They are two different beasts.

I agree no phone can take photos like a DSLR but the fact is you will miss so many photo opportunities because you have to plan it like an event. Just today I saw a rainbow and it was probably the best rainbow I've seen. It wouldn't still be there if I had to drive home to get a camera. When your child takes their first steps are you going to pull your phone out of your pocket and take the video or picture or say "hold on let me go home and get my DSLR". When you see a cute animal outside are you going to say "stay right there I need to go get my camera". DSLRs are totally awesome and $600 isn't out of the price range for most people. The problem is you can only use it for planned pictures. Of course if it's a wedding, graduation, or maybe even a birthday party why not break out the DSLR. I personally have my eyes on a really nice Nikon DSLR that when I get the extra spending cash I'm going to get. TBH I'm sort of an old photo bug that misses 35 mm cameras.

As to the iPhone or any other smartphone being a "phone" is just silly. Most people barely use their phone to make calls. It's a messaging device, computer, camera, game console, wallet, notepad, alarm clock, flashlight, etc. It might not do those tasks as well as a dedicated device but it's the device that's always with you.

 

[MyMacintosh]

Just today I saw a rainbow and it was probably the best rainbow I've seen.

I don’t think it’s smart to drop $1200 on a phone to take pictures of rainbows. If pics mean so much I’d rather save up for a DSLR camera. Makes more sense to drop the price of the phones but they can’t do that because adding “pro” to the phone and changing the pricing tiers means more profits for Apple.

 

[compwiz1202]

The hardest part with the phone functions is that that is also affected by the carrier. I've had clear calls and poor calls on my iPhone, so is it the device or the network?

 

[man4857]

I don’t think it’s smart to drop $1200 on a phone to take pictures of rainbows. If pics mean so much I’d rather save up for a DSLR camera. Makes more sense to drop the price of the phones but they can’t do that because adding “pro” to the phone and changing the pricing tiers means more profits for Apple.

I mean... if a phone can take as great as pictures in DLSRs then it's win-win for the consumer not needing to buy 2 things versus 1. Especially when that 1 is very portable and small.

 

[russell_314]

I don’t think it’s smart to drop $1200 on a phone to take pictures of rainbows. If pics mean so much I’d rather save up for a DSLR camera. Makes more sense to drop the price of the phones but they can’t do that because adding “pro” to the phone and changing the pricing tiers means more profits for Apple.

As I said before the DSLR I'm looking at is actually cheaper (About $600) than an iPhone but can't do what my iPhone can do when it comes to pictures. It's like having an Abrams tank at home for self defense isn't going to help you when you're getting robbed at the ATM. A camera at home can't take pictures. Also the phone does many tasks that the DSLR can't. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to play games, watch videos, send text messages, browse the internet, set an alarm clock, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "adding “pro” to the phone and changing the pricing tiers". When they went to the "Pro" name from the XS and XS Max the prices didn't change. The 11 that was the XR went down in price so maybe that's what you're talking about? As to profits for Apple of course they are going to make a profit. It's a business not a charity. Why do people think in 2019 that a business making a profit is somehow bad?
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The hardest part with the phone functions is that that is also affected by the carrier. I've had clear calls and poor calls on my iPhone, so is it the device or the network?

I've had some bad calls but it could be the network on either phone. Some of my friends live in rural areas with few cell towers. It's not a huge problem for me because most of my calls have no issues. If you're having a lot of problems it could be your carrier. I remember T-Mobile used to be terrible but maybe that's changed since they merged with sprint.
[doublepost=1568230047][/doublepost]

I mean... if a phone can take as great as pictures in DLSRs then it's win-win for the consumer not needing to buy 2 things versus 1. Especially when that 1 is very portable and small.

I think it's very close but the DSLR will edge out especially if it's a quality DSLR. The problem is they don't fit in your pocket very well. The smart phone has really hurt the camera industry because of this .

 

[Painter2002]

I agree no phone can take photos like a DSLR but the fact is you will miss so many photo opportunities because you have to plan it like an event. Just today I saw a rainbow and it was probably the best rainbow I've seen. It wouldn't still be there if I had to drive home to get a camera. When your child takes their first steps are you going to pull your phone out of your pocket and take the video or picture or say "hold on let me go home and get my DSLR". When you see a cute animal outside are you going to say "stay right there I need to go get my camera". DSLRs are totally awesome and $600 isn't out of the price range for most people. The problem is you can only use it for planned pictures. Of course if it's a wedding, graduation, or maybe even a birthday party why not break out the DSLR. I personally have my eyes on a really nice Nikon DSLR that when I get the extra spending cash I'm going to get. TBH I'm sort of an old photo bug that misses 35 mm cameras.

As to the iPhone or any other smartphone being a "phone" is just silly. Most people barely use their phone to make calls. It's a messaging device, computer, camera, game console, wallet, notepad, alarm clock, flashlight, etc. It might not do those tasks as well as a dedicated device but it's the device that's always with you.

I guess I’m old (only in my early 30s) but a phone is still a phone. If I want to do proper gaming, I have a computer; if I want high quality photo I have my DSLR; if I need a need a flashlight I use a proper flashlight... having these features on my phone is indeed handy, but far from the intended purpose...

Sorry to say, but you do realize the world existed and functioned just fine before all these features existed in a PHONE... Just saying. It’s called using tools for what their meant for, and distinguishing between what’s a GADGET, and what the true purpose of a device is. An iPhone is a phone at its core function. Everything else built on is a gadget or feature not fundamentally required for it to function.

Edit I forgot to finish my point with saying all that. My point is people get so wrapped up in these MUST HAVE features that they forget how trivial these things are. If you are willing to pay the money for a phone with tons of gadgets on it, more power to you, but if you are missing a gadgety feature it’s really not the end of the world. That’s all.

 

[russell_314]

I guess I’m old (only in my early 30s) but a phone is still a phone. If I want to do proper gaming, I have a computer; if I want high quality photo I have my DSLR; if I need a need a flashlight I use a proper flashlight... having these features on my phone is indeed handy, but far from the intended purpose...

Sorry to say, but you do realize the world existed and functioned just fine before all these features existed in a PHONE... Just saying. It’s called using tools for what their meant for, and distinguishing between what’s a GADGET, and what the true purpose of a device is. An iPhone is a phone at its core function. Everything else built on is a gadget or feature not fundamentally required for it to function.

I understand where you're coming from because I'm not young by any means. I lived a long time without any sort of cell phone. I had a house phone that connected to the wall. I was alive when cell phones were car phones then they became portable with a carry pack, then a brick. They were expensive so I couldn't afford one. My first cell phone was a Nokia 5165. I believe they called them bar or candy bar phones. Then I went to a flip phone, and finally I broke down and bought a HTC smartphone because T9 texting was killing me when I needed to send texts for work

Just because everything worked and people lived without a particular device doesn't make it not useful. Air conditioning hasn't been around for very long in the grand scheme of things. Motor vehicles haven't been around forever.

I don't think one could say the "core function" of the iPhone is a phone. Is the core function of the Apple Watch to tell time? I never wore a watch before so I didn't need time on my wrist. My phone was working just fine as a clock/watch. If you don't want or feel the need for a smartphone there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're happy using separate devices for a calculator, camera, game console, etc then it works for you. This doesn't change the fact that for many people the smartphone has replaced or at least supplemented many of those items. Most people I know use the phone function of a smartphone the least out of all the features. They are tablet computers with phone functionality.

Edit: 30's isn't old 😀

 

[Painter2002]

I understand where you're coming from because I'm not young by any means. I lived a long time without any sort of cell phone. I had a house phone that connected to the wall. I was alive when cell phones were car phones then they became portable with a carry pack, then a brick. They were expensive so I couldn't afford one. My first cell phone was a Nokia 5165. I believe they called them bar or candy bar phones. Then I went to a flip phone, and finally I broke down and bought a HTC smartphone because T9 texting was killing me when I needed to send texts for work

Just because everything worked and people lived without a particular device doesn't make it not useful. Air conditioning hasn't been around for very long in the grand scheme of things. Motor vehicles haven't been around forever.

I don't think one could say the "core function" of the iPhone is a phone. Is the core function of the Apple Watch to tell time? I never wore a watch before so I didn't need time on my wrist. My phone was working just fine as a clock/watch. If you don't want or feel the need for a smartphone there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're happy using separate devices for a calculator, camera, game console, etc then it works for you. This doesn't change the fact that for many people the smartphone has replaced or at least supplemented many of those items. Most people I know use the phone function of a smartphone the least out of all the features. They are tablet computers with phone functionality.

Edit: 30's isn't old 😀

You make good points there. I probably went overboard there, but I guess my point really is that with so much already jammed into these phones, a lot of the features (outside of truly needed stuff like better battery life an what not) people complain about are really trivial and not worth getting upset about. I mean if someone doesn’t like that phone doesn’t have a new feature, then save your money and keep your current phone for another year. That’s all I’m saying. For me I’m in that boat, not enough value gained to spend an extra $500-600 this year on a new iPhone.

And old cellphones were called bricks in my household, and I remember when we got the 30ft phone cord for the landline so when we talked to our family or friends we could walk all around the house using the landlines, it was the best. LOL.

 

[russell_314]

You make good points there. I probably went overboard there, but I guess my point really is that with so much already jammed into these phones, a lot of the features (outside of truly needed stuff like better battery life an what not) people complain about are really trivial and not worth getting upset about. I mean if someone doesn’t like that phone doesn’t have a new feature, then save your money and keep your current phone for another year. That’s all I’m saying. For me I’m in that boat, not enough value gained to spend an extra $500-600 this year on a new iPhone.

And old cellphones were called bricks in my household, and I remember when we got the 30ft phone cord for the landline so when we talked to our family or friends we could walk all around the house using the landlines, it was the best. LOL.

I think cell phones took something away from personal communication but nothing can be done about that. I think part of the problem is people feel compelled to upgrade every time a new phone comes out. Maybe it's the advertisements? The auto manufactures need to get with the phone companies and find out their secret. I can hear it now.. "I have the old 2019 ____ but I can't wait till October till the 2020 model comes out". I mean there's nothing wrong with either one if you have the $$$$ but one shouldn't feel compelled to get a new phone or car every year.

 

[gillybean]

I think it's very close but the DSLR will edge out especially if it's a quality DSLR. The problem is they don't fit in your pocket very well. The smart phone has really hurt the camera industry because of this .

There do exist numerous point-and-shoot cameras that fit in your pocket and take way better pictures and video than iPhone 11 max pro though. For example, the Sony RX100. If you already carry something like that around when you expect you might be taking casual pictures, then what remaining reason is there to upgrade?

 

[turbineseaplane]

The funny part here is they would probably get money out of me to upgrade if they would make something small again.

It is hilarious how the one company that held out on making big phones forever, based on good hard data on sizes of human hands and usability, is now the one that refuses to make anything that is not the size of a patio paver and weighs a ton due to endless glass and metal.

There are many people that just want something smaller and lighter than iPhone 8’s… It doesn’t need to have the latest chipsets or anything. We just want small and light form factors because our phones are somewhat more ancillary to our lives but we still value being in the ecosystem.

 

[Painter2002]

The auto manufactures need to get with the phone companies and find out their secret. I can hear it now.. "I have the old 2019 ____ but I can't wait till October till the 2020 model comes out". I mean there's nothing wrong with either one if you have the $$$$ but one shouldn't feel compelled to get a new phone or car every year.

Lol, why do you think all these cars are getting massive digital screens? And some car companies like Volvo are starting short term lease programs? There is money to be made in the annual renewal of products with new gadgets even when customers don’t need them.

I think the challenge companies are finding is that tech has reached a point where CPU and GPU performance gains are growing at paces faster than what the day to day uses require, so users are able to make devices like phones last 3-5 years, unlike old phones that would be unbearable after two-3 years.

So the push is to add extra gadgets and make subscription services is a must for these companies to stay lucrative and keep the year over year budgets going up instead of reporting losses to stockholders year over year. Aside from video games and 4K video editing, most processor and GPU upgrades are essentially overkill at this specific point of time.

 

[russell_314]

There do exist numerous point-and-shoot cameras that fit in your pocket and take way better pictures and video than iPhone 11 max pro though. For example, the Sony RX100. If you already carry something like that around when you expect you might be taking casual pictures, then what remaining reason is there to upgrade?

I guess you could carry around a point and shoot camera everywhere you go. I don't know if I would put that in a front jeans pocket especally without a case because lint or whatever would mess it up. Maybe a jacket pocket or in the summer you could be really cool and carry it in a fanny pack. I don't think there's a compelling reason to upgrade from last years model iPhone but it depends on the person.

 

[MyMacintosh]

As I said before the DSLR I'm looking at is actually cheaper (About $600) than an iPhone but can't do what my iPhone can do when it comes to pictures. It's like having an Abrams tank at home for self defense isn't going to help you when you're getting robbed at the ATM. A camera at home can't take pictures. Also the phone does many tasks that the DSLR can't. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to play games, watch videos, send text messages, browse the internet, set an alarm clock, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "adding “pro” to the phone and changing the pricing tiers". When they went to the "Pro" name from the XS and XS Max the prices didn't change. The 11 that was the XR went down in price so maybe that's what you're talking about? As to profits for Apple of course they are going to make a profit. It's a business not a charity. Why do people think in 2019 that a business making a profit is somehow bad?
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I've had some bad calls but it could be the network on either phone. Some of my friends live in rural areas with few cell towers. It's not a huge problem for me because most of my calls have no issues. If you're having a lot of problems it could be your carrier. I remember T-Mobile used to be terrible but maybe that's changed since they merged with sprint.
[doublepost=1568230047][/doublepost]
I think it's very close but the DSLR will edge out especially if it's a quality DSLR. The problem is they don't fit in your pocket very well. The smart phone has really hurt the camera industry because of this .

But it still doesn’t address the point which is that current phones are good enough. Even the point of the baby; Do you really need 3 cameras and wide lens at an increased cost just to take a 10 second video of your child’s first steps? It’s overkill. In the 2 situations you mentioned, a XS or XS max would most likely be good enough. It seems like most people on the forum try and rationalize their purchases and then realize they don’t exactly use all the features they thought they were going to.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It seems like most people on the forum try and rationalize their purchases and then realize they don’t exactly use all the features they thought they were going to.

You just discovered a key tenent of the forum..

The iPhone section in particular can reliably be counted on to do exactly what you said...work backwards into mental pretzels to justify purchases and make the buyer feel better about it.

 

[yegon]

It’s the same every year.

There’s rabid people who claim definitively it’s a great/boring release, and try to push their view as the objective truth in order to rationalise their buying/not buying decision, as said above. Not coincidentally, this objective truth *cough* is aligned with whether they’re buying/not buying.

Then there’s the sane amongst us who recognise year on year releases have long been iterative improvements, and decide whether this is a buy or skip year based on needs/desires/financials.

 

[Juicy Box]

It’s the same every year.

I think it is more apparent in the past 4-5ish years, imo. Around the time that Apple switched from the 2-year Redesign, S-model cycle to the current cycle.

Then there’s the sane amongst us who recognise year on year releases have long been iterative improvements, and decide whether this is a buy or skip year based on needs/desires/financials.

One could argue that this still aligns with:

try to push their view as the objective truth in order to rationalise their buying/not buying decision

 

[yegon]

I think it is more apparent in the past 4-5ish years, imo. Around the time that Apple switched from the 2-year Redesign, S-model cycle to the current cycle.


One could argue that this still aligns with:

Haha fair point, you got me 🙂

I didn’t mean to push it as “I am right” - although it certainly sounded that way - merely that everyone is in a different position and it’s all shades of grey.