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Oh that's so funny how we are very similar!

I got the first gen iPad Pro (still have it) but it's my wife's photobooth business device so I never use it.

As for the Mini, I will be getting the Mini w/ cellular as a celebration gift to myself when (and if) I pass my solo & checkrides and get my private pilot's certificate for VFR flights.

Mini will be my first "avionics tech" to start learning how to fly on instruments (IFR) and GPS.

Currently, only my flight instructor uses his Mini to watch for air traffic separation, weather, and airspace notifications because I have a tendency to fly into restricted airspace and busy airport airspaces while practicing flight.

Looking at using Garmin Pilot or Foreflight for the Mini:
IMG_3843-scaled.jpg

OT question for you:

What’s the going rate for flying lessons these days? I took ground school years ago when I was in college (it was actually offered as a class) but couldn’t afford the flying lessons. I’ve been wanting to get back into it but life keeps getting in the way.

Thanks!
 
I think this vid shows why it could be a big hit for people like me that want a "smaller" phone, but also need a bigger one (than my current IP16ProMax) for when I'm looking at crap for work...I mean, I'm getting old... 😛

 
All of this is now going down senseless argumentation. A laptop is a laptop, not a desktop.

Let me be clear as I was in my original post: the iPhone Duo will fail. Failure is defined, as I have defined it in my original post, as being a niche product to the extent that it will not sell well enough for it to be considered a success, much like the AVP, which didn't meet Apple's internal, paltry sales projections.

I am doubling down on this now that I have seen what they have launched. It may become such a poor seller that it ceases to exist after a few generations, or just doesn't get upgraded that much (where's the 2026 iPhone Air?) and fades away.

The iPhone Duo, much like the Microsoft Duo, is a byzantine, schizophrenic product equivalent to a lawnmower with wings. The design compromises and trade offs are substantial for a function (morphing into a tablet) that people are not wanting or needing. I stand by this and am doubling down. No amount of arguing is going to change my position. Only time will tell whether I am right, or wrong.

Some things that standout as outright ridiculous (yes, this is my opinion you don't need to state this is my opinion):
  • The amount of information that shows when an app is open up top and another app is open on the bottom screen with the keyboard open is terrible (e.g., Messages).
  • The outer screen is glossy, the inner screen is matte. Transitioning between the two is weird. I've done this in person at Apple Stores looking at matte screens and then glossy back and forth, testing as I have bought many products and considered a matte screen at times, but always walk away from them because of contrast and colour wash out.
  • The amount of white space on the homescreen in portrait mode is pretty bad.
  • The outer screen has rounded corners on one side, and square on the other.
  • The Apple case with kickstand completely covers the outer screen, so if you put that case on, the device is useless when folded unless you take it off every time.
  • The short and stubby size when folded that compromises one handed use. I understand why they did it so the unfolded state is more tablet like, but the folded version has this issue. They could do a trifold, but that has its own set of issues.
I completely agree 100%. It solves zero problems. And well said with the "is a byzantine, schizophrenic product" phrase 🙂
 
Yes, I know people will jump on this and flame me. But this is a prediction and we will see if I am right or wrong over time.

I predicted the AVP would fail because it was obvious: it was worse at many things compared to other device types like smartphones and laptops and desktops. That it didn’t have much of a reason to exist.

Same too for the Fold. It is worse at several things compared to non-folding smartphones, laptops, desktops… and doesn’t have much of a reason to exist.

  • Unfolded or folded, the Fold has seams since effectively 2 slabs are sandwiched onto each other and with a hinge. It will always therefore be design compromised compared to a non-folding smartphone.
  • Because of the folding capability, and this is a big deal, it has to have a PLASTIC SCREEN. Plastic is noticeably inferior to glass from an optics standpoint, including reflections, and it will have a crease. And over time, we can see that the crease gets more pronounced with other Foldables. So on this, it will have a worse screen than non-folding products like an iPhone or MacBook or iPad.
  • Fragility and processing power: it will be more fragile because they have to make each slab as thin as possible and there is a hinge, which is subject to breaking and failure. And the thermals suffer which can compromise performance.
  • Very few use cases: the Fold turns into a tablet… but people buy and use non-folding smartphones precisely because of its form-factor: pocketable, one handed use, simple interfaces in software, etc. They aren’t asking for something to turn into a tablet, it doesn’t fit the use cases. And the stats support people not wanting Folds: Foldable smartphones after several years on the market still only have less than 5% of the total smartphone marketshare.
You don’t and won’t see people standing in line at a grocery store with one basket of food in one hand and an unfolded smartphone in the other hand. One handed device use is one of the main use cases of non-folding smartphones.

And for people who also like and want a tablet, it comes down to the problem of the fold being inferior across a set of things to a non-folding iPad.

I don’t see, therefore, how an iPhone Fold can be successful for Apple. Will some people buy it? Yes. How is failure defined? For Apple, it would be not leading in marketshare in the category and not capturing enough customers to make it a viable category to continue developing. Apple needs relatively large markets and scale, and that is not going to happen with the Fold is my prediction.

Go ahead and attack me, and for anyone wanting this device on day 1, that’s great. I don’t think foldables will not exist, but a device that doesn’t have much of a reason to exist is nothing more than a niche market device at best.
  • Except that it isn't two slabs. It is a single double-size screen, and the design is incredible.
  • And from all accounts thus far, the screen is getting rave reviews, with many stating it is much better than the other foldable phones they have seen. In addition, GLASS reflects light. I don't know what you're talking about when saying a disadvantage of plastic to glass are reflections. But it should be noted that this isn't normal plastic, and it is the first matte screen on an iPhone Apple has ever made, and thus the first without reflections. This also helps to hide the crease.
  • It is not more fragile. They used what they learned building the iPhone Air, which is one of the strongest iPhones Apple has ever built. The vapor chamber will assist greatly with the thermals.
  • A ton more use cases than the phone. I was definitely leaning toward the 18 Pro Max due to the cameras. However, the myriad use cases of the Duo have me now leaning in that direction. I believe you wrote this before it was announced, so you didn't have the benefit of seeing all of the additions they made to iOS.
As to your comment about the grocery store line, isn't it convenient that it has a second screen for one-handed use in those types of instance?


App developer Steve Troughton-Smith agrees with your skepticism OP

full
My response to Steven on Mastodon:

I think this misses the entire point of why Duo was the perfect name for this product. I'm in the camp of not really liking the iPad. I had the original and a 3, but haven't personally had one since. The reason for this is that if I'm going to carry something else of that size with me, I'd much rather have my MacBook Pro. However, to have something that fits into my pocket and functions as a phone be able to expand to that larger size when needed, that is a game changer.

I was leaning toward no on the Duo because my only focus was on the cameras, which are important to me. However, the more I see the UI capabilities of the Duo in a variety of contexts, the more I feel drawn to it. I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max. However, the iOS UI looks so lacking in productivity ability when compared to the Duo. Even with the large screen of the Pro Max, email is never fun, Numbers and other productivity apps are cramped.

Apple's TikTok showing scrolling through the Photos app was almost enough by itself to change my mind and make me want the Duo. Other videos have me thinking long and hard about how many other things I could do with it. My 16" MacBook Pro is great, but there are plenty of times when I'm in a location where I just have my phone. And I find myself being convinced that the Duo would open worlds of productivity to me when I only have my phone.
 
I already addressed this. Less than 10% of Apple’s revenues comes from Mac. 78% comes from iPhone and services.

If all Apple did was Mac, they would not be the same company they are today. They might even cease to exist for a number of reasons. Regardless, your marketshare stat for laptops is wrong.

Back to the topic: so iPhone Pro and Pro Max is almost 50% of total iPhone sales… that demonstrates that high price smartphones can sell in the 50% marketshare in their segment.

And really back to the topic: my prediction is based on the premise that most people do not want and do not need a tablet when they use a smartphone. They want the right tool for the job, and will not volunteer to subject themselves to the design compromises of a foldable. It’s useless. It will remain niche. Apple may discontinue it.

Time will tell whether I am right or wrong. And I look forward to be proven right, or proven wrong.
I agree with what you say but Apple with double down on this design. There is enough of a segment of buyers that will buy the Duo. Personally, I don't see this design as something that I would ever want but I still think that the Duo will sell. I find the iPhone Air (with some it it's shortcomings addressed) as a more interesting item (possibly).
 
  • Except that it isn't two slabs. It is a single double-size screen, and the design is incredible.
  • And from all accounts thus far, the screen is getting rave reviews, with many stating it is much better than the other foldable phones they have seen. In addition, GLASS reflects light. I don't know what you're talking about when saying a disadvantage of plastic to glass are reflections. But it should be noted that this isn't normal plastic, and it is the first matte screen on an iPhone Apple has ever made, and thus the first without reflections. This also helps to hide the crease.
  • It is not more fragile. They used what they learned building the iPhone Air, which is one of the strongest iPhones Apple has ever built. The vapor chamber will assist greatly with the thermals.
  • A ton more use cases than the phone. I was definitely leaning toward the 18 Pro Max due to the cameras. However, the myriad use cases of the Duo have me now leaning in that direction. I believe you wrote this before it was announced, so you didn't have the benefit of seeing all of the additions they made to iOS.
As to your comment about the grocery store line, isn't it convenient that it has a second screen for one-handed use in those types of instance?



My response to Steven on Mastodon:

I think this misses the entire point of why Duo was the perfect name for this product. I'm in the camp of not really liking the iPad. I had the original and a 3, but haven't personally had one since. The reason for this is that if I'm going to carry something else of that size with me, I'd much rather have my MacBook Pro. However, to have something that fits into my pocket and functions as a phone be able to expand to that larger size when needed, that is a game changer.

I was leaning toward no on the Duo because my only focus was on the cameras, which are important to me. However, the more I see the UI capabilities of the Duo in a variety of contexts, the more I feel drawn to it. I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max. However, the iOS UI looks so lacking in productivity ability when compared to the Duo. Even with the large screen of the Pro Max, email is never fun, Numbers and other productivity apps are cramped.

Apple's TikTok showing scrolling through the Photos app was almost enough by itself to change my mind and make me want the Duo. Other videos have me thinking long and hard about how many other things I could do with it. My 16" MacBook Pro is great, but there are plenty of times when I'm in a location where I just have my phone. And I find myself being convinced that the Duo would open worlds of productivity to me when I only have my phone.
Nothing in what you have said addresses my central point, and yes it is two slabs.
 
I’m torn on the utility of the device. If I knew I would actually use the unfolded screen frequently, it would be a compelling product. However, if I found myself rarely opening it, the iPhone Pro would be superior in every way. Ultimately, it comes down to how comfortable and practical the experience is when the device is fully opened—that’s the deciding factor for me.
 
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He conveniently left off the dust resistance stat. I've watched Shane Craig for years (we were both really big fans of the Microsoft Surface Duo), but I found this breakdown a bit disingenuous on his part. Things he completely loved about the Surface Duo (e.g., the rounded outer edge but flat hinge) he now calls asymmetrical... it just struck me as grasping.
 
Duo will flop, it’s too expensive and I already carry my iPad mini almost everywhere I go… I do not need it to be foldable to be carried… So I see no point of buying this iPhone duo which is more than 3x more expensive than a mini !
Yes, it’s more than three times the price of the iPad mini that exists… Today.
But that leaves a lot out, like the fact that the current iPad mini…
Is running an LCD display with specifications taken right from 2015.
Is already using a three years out of date chip.
Has the camera taken directly from an iPhone 6S or 7.
Is 40 g heavier than the iPhone duo.
Starts with half the storage, only 128 GB.
Has 2/3 the RAM.
Is Wi-Fi only.


A current iPad mini with the same amount of storage as the iPhone duo base and cellular data starts at $849, plus an additional Apple care fee on top of whatever you’re paying for your iPhone, and an additional cellular data plan.

Let’s assume a $200 increase for the new OLED iPad mini eighth generation.

That means you’re looking at right around a $1100 iPad mini, a $1200 iPhone 18 Pro…and again, two separate Apple care plans, two separate data plans.
That’s almost $2500 out the door.

Or $1999 for an iPhone duo, one Apple care plan, and one data plan.
 
Yes, it’s more than three times the price of the iPad mini that exists… Today.
But that leaves a lot out, like the fact that the current iPad mini…
Is running an LCD display with specifications taken right from 2015.
Is already using a three years out of date chip.
Has the camera taken directly from an iPhone 6S or 7.
Is 40 g heavier than the iPhone duo.
Starts with half the storage, only 128 GB.
Has 2/3 the RAM.
Is Wi-Fi only.


A current iPad mini with the same amount of storage as the iPhone duo base and cellular data starts at $849, plus an additional Apple care fee on top of whatever you’re paying for your iPhone, and an additional cellular data plan.

Let’s assume a $200 increase for the new OLED iPad mini eighth generation.

That means you’re looking at right around a $1100 iPad mini, a $1200 iPhone 18 Pro…and again, two separate Apple care plans, two separate data plans.
That’s almost $2500 out the door.

Or $1999 for an iPhone duo, one Apple care plan, and one data plan.
Man you don't need an iPhone 18 pro AND Apple care... you could just stick with the mini and a 17e ! You also do not need two separate data plans since you will have your phone with you !
 
I think people are very much underestimating the price of the upcoming iPad mini.
The current iPad mini starts at $599, with an extra $149 for cellular data.

When the iPad Pro switched from LCD to OLED, with mini LED being a middle jump between the two, the 11 inch saw a $200 increase, and the 13 inch saw a $300 increase.
So even on the low end, the iPad mini eight is likely going to be at least $200 more expensive than the seven.
But on top of that, consider the fact that it’s likely going to use the same A20Pro chip, as the new iPhones, and that has an extra 4 GB of RAM on top of what the iPad mini already has. That RAM, as everyone knows, is not free.
On top of that, they are likely to double the storage starting from 128 gigabytes to 256 gigabytes.
On top of that, they are also very likely to make it significantly thinner, that adds cost.
And they are likely to bump the camera from the current one that’s straight out of the iPhone 7 to something more like it was pulled out of an iPhone 15, that’s going to add cost.
The modem is likely going to be bumped to the C2 from the current Qualcomm first generation 5G modem from six years ago, that’s gonna add cost.

Do not be shocked if this new iPad mini has a starting price of $899-$999, and the OLED iPad Air coming next year to follow at $1099.
Remember, just since 2024, the starting price of the 11 inch iPad Pro has gone from $799 up to $1199, and a 13- inch iPad Pro has gone from $999 where it was for many, many years, up to $1499 today.

The days of the $400 and $500 iPad mini is going to be long, long gone.
If you think Apple isn’t going to take this opportunity to start price laddering people up to the iPhone duo, you are absolutely mistaken.
Purchasing an iPhone and iPad mini separately may have been less than $2000 five years ago, it won’t be a month from now.
 
Man you don't need an iPhone 18 pro AND Apple care... you could just stick with the mini and a 17e ! You also do not need two separate data plans since you will have your phone with you !
Alright. Well, now you’re giving upbattery life because mobile hotspot uses a lot of battery. Even on my old 15 Pro Max, it just drained the battery to use the hotspot. But OK.
$699 for an iPhone 17e (with no Apple Care, so good luck if you drop the thing)
$699 for a 256 gigabyte iPad mini 6 (which, again, has most of its specifications coming from between 2015 and 2021)
You are looking at $1398 for both, plus tax. So let’s just round up to $1500 out the door.
For two devices that are significantly worse than an iPhone duo, significantly worse displays on both, significantly worse durability on both, worse processor, less RAM, no wide angle camera on either, significantly worse cameras on the iPad mini especially, no OLED on that iPad mini, worse battery because now you have to use a mobile hotspot.


OK, so let’s say that you don’t want to deal with those compromises. Let’s say you don’t mind using the mobile hotspot, but you want nicer displays that are at least equivalent to the iPhone duo. Let’s say the iPad mini 8 with OLED, and a standard iPhone 17.
Now you’re looking at $899 for the iPhone 17, and with my estimated $200 price increase $899 for the iPad mini 8.
$1798 before tax. After tax, you’re looking at about $1900 out the door. For an extra $150 or so, you’ve got the iPhone duo.
Not as big as a difference as some are making it out to be.
 
Thats based on current thinking of running a single instance at a time. The Duo has the power of Zeus at its disposal and could easily run them simultaneously.
I can’t help but feel that is the least efficient solution to the problem, requiring double the RAM if not more, right when RAM prices are sky high. Running two instances of an app, plus the overheads to coordinate the two. No, there's got to be a better way.

Man you don't need an iPhone 18 pro AND Apple care... you could just stick with the mini and a 17e ! You also do not need two separate data plans since you will have your phone with you !
If someone is considering a 17e, they're not likely in the target audience for the Duo! That's like saying the next Porsche 911 Turbo will be a failure because the 911 Carrera is cheaper!
 
Foldables are only the beginning. Rollable screens are coming in the next couple of years. LG had a prototype that never launched but looked fantastic. Lenovo already sells a laptop with a rollable screen. Samsung has been working on it for awhile, too. Apple is working on perfecting a Fold while the future is rollable screens.

It'll be the same as it is now. Every other company will launch rollable phones and Apple will be 7 years behind the competition.
And then in font of them when they launch it. Some things Apple invents, others they concentrate on just doing better.
 
My prediction is that as long as it can be financed, it won’t fail.
Yeah this may be the thing. If the cost can be spread out like a regular iPhone can be then people will buy it.


It’s not like the Vision Pro which really replaced nothing. That was an expensive additional device that is very different from a computer or phone. It’s an iphone/iPad mini replacement. If you have both those, and were looking to upgrade both at the same time I’d just get the Duo
 
Yes, it’s more than three times the price of the iPad mini that exists… Today.
But that leaves a lot out, like the fact that the current iPad mini…
Is running an LCD display with specifications taken right from 2015.
Is already using a three years out of date chip.
Has the camera taken directly from an iPhone 6S or 7.
Is 40 g heavier than the iPhone duo.
Starts with half the storage, only 128 GB.
Has 2/3 the RAM.
Is Wi-Fi only.


A current iPad mini with the same amount of storage as the iPhone duo base and cellular data starts at $849, plus an additional Apple care fee on top of whatever you’re paying for your iPhone, and an additional cellular data plan.

Let’s assume a $200 increase for the new OLED iPad mini eighth generation.

That means you’re looking at right around a $1100 iPad mini, a $1200 iPhone 18 Pro…and again, two separate Apple care plans, two separate data plans.
That’s almost $2500 out the door.

Or $1999 for an iPhone duo, one Apple care plan, and one data plan.
You should also know that a new iPad Mini is imminent, so this comparison will be dated fairly quickly. Also, there are 11" iPads/iPad Pros/iPad Airs that are worthy of comparison.
 
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It’s a nano texture matte screen. Those already exist on iPad and Macbook. You spend all that time writing a post like that as if what Apple has done is something completely different on the Duo. It looks like sandpaper.

Let me say that again: it looks like sandpaper.
What's interesting is Dan, from MacRumors, has actually handled the iPhone Duo and is so enamored with the nano-texture quality on the inner display that he thinks the Pro Max iPhones should have it by default.

 
What's interesting is Dan, from MacRumors, has actually handled the iPhone Duo and is so enamored with the nano-texture quality on the inner display that he thinks the Pro Max iPhones should have it by default.

I find people’s reactions to matte screens interesting. Most portable electronic screens like on smartphones and laptops are glossy.

I hate Apple’s nano-texture matte screens but, I like Samsung’s matte screen on the OLED S95H TV. However, LG’s G6 glossy screen with a really good anti-reflective coating is good too. I have a very sunny living room so that is a factor.
 
😑dude it’s going to sell billions. And every other manufacturer is going to borrow every last unique design aspect Apple has done here.
 
Won't really matter to you but the AVP fully syncs with your iphone now, you can totally text, facetime, make and recieve calls from the AVP and you can unlock your phone using optic ID without taking off your AVP.
Have you read about the use of ACP in the medical field?

Some astounding examples of doctors using it to improve procedures.

Certainly not for everyone unless the patient is you
 
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