Will there ever be BBM type messaging for the iPhone?

[masterell]

AIM is crap because its not a standardised method of communication - if you want to talk to someone on AIM, they have to be on it..maybe where you come from everyone has it, but in the UK AIM is the epitome of bawwwlz.

BBM gives you a reason to get a blackberry. That's the reason my friends have it, that's the reason many other people have it. It's exclusive to the Blackberry - and it works..so to anyone out there who says there's no need - argue with the millions of users of BBM..

For Apple to not include it, is the equivalent of Steve Jobs saying he doesn't think an iPhone should include MMS. Oh no..wait..he's already done that..

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

AIM is crap because its not a standardised method of communication - if you want to talk to someone on AIM, they have to be on it..maybe where you come from everyone has it, but in the UK AIM is the epitome of bawwwlz.

BBM gives you a reason to get a blackberry. That's the reason my friends have it, that's the reason many other people have it. It's exclusive to the Blackberry - and it works..so to anyone out there who says there's no need - argue with the millions of users of BBM..

For Apple to not include it, is the equivalent of Steve Jobs saying he doesn't think an iPhone should include MMS. Oh no..wait..he's already done that..

Exactly. I can't stand AIM. If it wasn't included in Beejive, I never would have signed into my account again. Therefore ALL of those people relying on a crappy web-based messenger service to keep in touch with their contacts would never see me.

And you're absolutely dead on when you compare it to MMS, except for the fact that this hasn't been addressed by Jobs/Apple yet. Now that MMS has been taken care of (haha), iPhone users have a new feature to beg for. You can be sure it'll be next summer before the issue is even identified.

BBM gives you a reason to get a blackberry. That's the reason my friends have it, that's the reason many other people have it.

Another great point I should have recognized. This would make money for Apple. I know a lot of you see it as pointless, but look at the number of Blackberry users in here defending it. Think of how many people would be more inclined to get an iPhone is this were offered as a standard feature.

Food for though...

 

[TLewis]

The wharrgarbl is strong in this thread.

Seriously though: for those of us in the great, unwashed masses, could someone please enlighten us as to what features, exactly, people want in this mystical "BBM app for the iPhone"? From what little I understand, people seem to asking for some combination of:

• Access to the private BBM network. Unfortunately, I think this is unlikely to happen, as RIM would probably have to be crazy to allow that. I imagine that would be equivalent to RIM admitting that the iPhone is stomping the BB.
• Wanting some "iPhone-only" network, where people who only have iPhones have access to the messages. I don't understand this. Are people trying to be elitist?
• Wanting threaded conversations, as opposed to just one long thread per user. This is certainly a valid request, but is difficult due to most messaging standards not supporting anything like this.
• Wanting an app like this to be standard (ships will all iPhones).

Of course, someone could write an app that talks to some new, proprietary network, but I don't think such an app would be terribly successful, in the iPhone world. There are just too many competing IM apps in the app store, and app prices are low, so it would be hard to just break even (there would be ongoing costs for servers and bandwidth for supporting the new network).

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

The wharrgarbl is strong in this thread.

Seriously though: for those of us in the great, unwashed masses, could someone please enlighten us as to what features, exactly, people want in this mystical "BBM app for the iPhone"? From what little I understand, people seem to asking for some combination of:

• Access to the private BBM network. Unfortunately, I think this is unlikely to happen, as RIM would probably have to be crazy to allow that. I imagine that would be equivalent to RIM admitting that the iPhone is stomping the BB.
• Wanting some "iPhone-only" network, where people who only have iPhones have access to the messages. I don't understand this. Are people trying to be elitist?
• Wanting threaded conversations, as opposed to just one long thread per user. This is certainly a valid request, but is difficult due to most messaging standards not supporting anything like this.
• Wanting an app like this to be standard (ships will all iPhones).

Of course, someone could write an app that talks to some new, proprietary network, but I don't think such an app would be terribly successful, in the iPhone world. There are just too many competing IM apps in the app store, and app prices are low, so it would be hard to just break even (there would be ongoing costs for servers and bandwidth for supporting the new network).

I don't think there could be a more glaringly perfect example of failing to read the thread.

Have a gander at my post right above yours and the one at the end of page 2.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Seriously though: for those of us in the great, unwashed masses, could someone please enlighten us as to what features, exactly, people want in this mystical "BBM app for the iPhone"?

How many times must we say these?

-It's FREE

-Read receipts: You have no idea how helpful this is until you use them. If you text someone lunch/dinner plans and they don't respond because they either forgot or were unable to (in class or something), you have to call to confirm they received your text. In this case, it shows as read, so you know they got your message and read its contents.

 

[Small White Car]

Another great point I should have recognized. This would make money for Apple. I know a lot of you see it as pointless, but look at the number of Blackberry users in here defending it. Think of how many people would be more inclined to get an iPhone is this were offered as a standard feature.

Which is exactly my main problem.

Back when people started putting computers in their homes, they started using e-mail and web standards so that you could communicate with other computers no matter what hardware or software you used. A Mac user could e-mail an HP, for example.

And that worked out pretty well.

Now that we're moving into the realm of portable computers, you want the exact opposite. You want Blackberry users talking with each other and iPhone users sticking to themselves and Android users just chatting away. That sort of division (the kind which requires switching hardware to jump around between) is exactly what we DON'T need.

And don't come back and say "well there's still AIM and e-mail." Everyone here has already made it quite clear that people should be using things like BB Messenger instead of those. They'd obviously be fine if they disappeared.

So what you're arguing for is a system where your friends and associates are based more on what hardware you use than anything else. Lame. You're all remembering the good old days when everyone had Blackberries. I'm sure BB Messenger was great in that world! But the future won't be like that. There will be several popular smart phone platforms, not one big winner like there was in the PC market.

I say, let's improve the systems we do have. Take that list of advantages you posted and put those into the current systems. Make e-mail and the IM systems work the way you want instead of just moving on to something that divides us all up and keeps people from communicating easily with each other.

 

[ucfgrad93]

-Read receipts: You have no idea how helpful this is until you use them. If you text someone lunch/dinner plans and they don't respond because they either forgot or were unable to (in class or something), you have to call to confirm they received your text. In this case, it shows as read, so you know they got your message and read it's contents.

That seems like the most useful feature to me.

 

[Etnies419]

I say, let's improve the systems we do have. Take that list of advantages you posted and put those into the current systems. Make e-mail and the IM systems work the way you want instead of just moving on to something that divides us all up and keeps people from communicating easily with each other.

I agree. Almost every phone has SMS these days. Instead of coming up with separate Messenger apps, why not improve SMS? Increase the character amount. Add the read receipt. Yes, it's not free, but you're not limited to just one set of people with a specific type of phone.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

same stuff over and over

Have fun trying to modify texting to be free and modifying it for status updates on whether each message has been delivered or read.

Etnies: No one is going to make texting free, that's not realistic. It's also a standard, you can't just add and remove stuff when you feel like it.

 

[yg17]

The wharrgarbl is strong in this thread.

Seriously though: for those of us in the great, unwashed masses, could someone please enlighten us as to what features, exactly, people want in this mystical "BBM app for the iPhone"? From what little I understand, people seem to asking for some combination of:

• Access to the private BBM network. Unfortunately, I think this is unlikely to happen, as RIM would probably have to be crazy to allow that. I imagine that would be equivalent to RIM admitting that the iPhone is stomping the BB.
• Wanting some "iPhone-only" network, where people who only have iPhones have access to the messages. I don't understand this. Are people trying to be elitist?
• Wanting threaded conversations, as opposed to just one long thread per user. This is certainly a valid request, but is difficult due to most messaging standards not supporting anything like this.
• Wanting an app like this to be standard (ships will all iPhones).

Of course, someone could write an app that talks to some new, proprietary network, but I don't think such an app would be terribly successful, in the iPhone world. There are just too many competing IM apps in the app store, and app prices are low, so it would be hard to just break even (there would be ongoing costs for servers and bandwidth for supporting the new network).

Way to read the thread

It's free (included in the BlackBerry data plan), it has read receipts so you know if your recipient read it (great in the business world), BlackBerries can be set up to send messages encrypted (another big deal in the corporate world), you can send messages to anyone, anywhere in the world, on any carrier, without incurring any additional costs (another great thing for businesses to cut down on international texting/calling costs), messages are instant and not subject to delays e-mail sometimes has, there's rarely, if ever any spam via BBM, need I go on or can you read the thread if you need more?

 

[Small White Car]

you can send messages to anyone, anywhere in the world, on any carrier, without incurring any additional costs

Which worked great back when almost everyone used Blackberries.

Microsoft got lucky with PCs.
Apple got lucky with iPods.

But no one is going to be lucky that way in the smartphone market. So revise your statement for the future:

you can send messages to 20% of smartphone users, anywhere in the world

That's just not going to work any more. BB Messenger is still popular because so many people are used to it, but you won't be able to replicate that success on a new platform today. I'm not saying an iPhone-Messenger wouldn't work great and have advantages over other systems. (But thanks, everyone, for continuing to point out advantages as if that was my complaint.) I'm saying it would never become popular, even if it's better than AIM and e-mail.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Which worked great back when almost everyone used Blackberries.

Microsoft got lucky with PCs.
Apple got lucky with iPods.

But no one is going to be lucky that way in the smartphone market. So revise your statement for the future:

you can send messages to 20% of smartphone users, anywhere in the world

That's just not going to work any more. BB Messenger is still popular because so many people are used to it, but you won't be able to replicate that success on a new platform today.

You're sticking your hands over your ears and shouting "lalalalalala" so you don't hear anything we're saying.

If it's used in addition to SMS/Email for communication it adds significant advantages without any disadvantages.

 

[Small White Car]

If it's used in addition to SMS/Email for communication it adds significant advantages without any disadvantages.

The disadvantage is that it doesn't work with most people you know.

I'd say it would be better to have a system that can communicate with anyone.

 

[dejo]

AIM is crap because its not a standardised method of communication - if you want to talk to someone on AIM, they have to be on it..

Almost the same thing could be said about BBM. "BBM is crap because its not a standardised method of communication - if you want to talk to someone on BBM, they have to be on it (i.e. have a Blackberry as well)" So, that's not really the strongest argument for BBM vs. AIM.

I'm kinda with Small White Car on this one. Instead of promoting systems that keep people separate, we need to encourage those that break down barriers. Kind of like the change that happened with email. In the very early days, you could only email those that were on the same system as you (CompuServe, etc.) Soon enough, this became an obstacle to more wide-spread communication. So, eventually a standardized email protocol was adapted and implemented that allowed people to email each other no matter what system they were on. The same needs to be done with IM.

 

[Small White Car]

Instead of promoting systems that keep people separate, we need to encourage those that break down barriers.

Thanks, you said it better than I did in thousands of words.

I acknowledge that BB Messenger is better.

But that's not enough. A messaging system has to incorporate this attitude if we want the future of computing to be better than the past has been.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

You're sticking your hands over your ears and shouting "lalalalalala" so you don't hear anything we're saying.

If it's used in addition to SMS/Email for communication it adds significant advantages without any disadvantages.

Fantastic response!! Same content as my next message was going to be without the sarcasm and frustration from talking to a rock!

 

[yg17]

Which worked great back when almost everyone used Blackberries.

Microsoft got lucky with PCs.
Apple got lucky with iPods.

But no one is going to be lucky that way in the smartphone market. So revise your statement for the future:

you can send messages to 20% of smartphone users, anywhere in the world

That's just not going to work any more. BB Messenger is still popular because so many people are used to it, but you won't be able to replicate that success on a new platform today. I'm not saying an iPhone-Messenger wouldn't work great and have advantages over other systems. (But thanks, everyone, for continuing to point out advantages as if that was my complaint.) I'm saying it would never become popular, even if it's better than AIM and e-mail.

Oh, for ****s sake, you know what I meant....any BlackBerry user. And if the reason Apple doesn't want to do a messenger is because they're worried about not getting enough marketshare for it to be worthwhile, then they don't sound too confident about their product, do they?

 

[TLewis]

-It's FREE

-Read receipts

OK, I missed these.

I understand FREE, but how is BBM FREE different than FREE IM? I understand that some people hate AIM or MSN or Yahoo or whatever, but can't they just choose one of those and use one of the iPhone apps? Granted, the apps themselves aren't free, but isn't it hard to justify complaining about a $5-$10 app after buying an expensive iPhone? Doing this would likely require some kind of account somewhere, or direct support from Apple. And, given how AT&T/Apple allegedly appear to be suppressing free messaging apps, I'd be surprised if Apple adds something like this as a standard part of the iPhone, without significant pressure from Android or the Pre.

Read receipts would certainly be useful, but raises privacy concerns. Network standard issues aside, many people would probably turn them off, or if they couldn't turn them off, would simply not use the app. (But, that's not really a reason to not have read receipts. At this point, network standards or system/bandwidth maintenance costs are probably the biggest stumbling blocks.)

Don't get me wrong -- some of the BBM features that people want seem pretty nice. It's just that there seems to be significant technical/political issues to producing such an app. For now, I think people will have to be satisfied with what Apple allows. Note that I'm not saying that people should stop complaining -- they (you) should, because the iPhone could certainly use a lot of improvement.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Thanks, you said it better than I did in thousands of words.

I acknowledge that BB Messenger is better.

But that's not enough. A messaging system has to incorporate this attitude if we want the future of computing to be better than the past has been.

Please, let us know how a universal system of messaging will be adopted over all the carriers that incorporates read receipts and is free to use. Until then, how about supporting something that has no disadvantages because using it is not mandatory?

EDIT

I understand FREE, but how is BBM FREE different than FREE IM?

Assuming SMS were free, why would it be better than free IM? It's built in, supports different kinds of files, has operating system integration, is always on, and is far less annoying for some reason I can't peg.

Read receipts would certainly be useful, but raises privacy concerns. Network standard issues aside, many people would probably turn them off, or if they couldn't turn them off, would simply not use the app. (But, that's not really a reason to not have read receipts. At this point, network standards or system/bandwidth maintenance costs are probably the biggest stumbling blocks.)

Just for information, people can turn off the features for privacy. Most don't. If they do, it's a free MMS app.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

What are the specifics on international messaging with BBM?

 

[Tallest Skil]

if you ever took it away there would be an uproar for good reason.

And then people would get over it and use e-mail or an IM protocol from this century.

End.

 

[yg17]

OK, I missed these.

I understand FREE, but how is BBM FREE different than FREE IM? I understand that some people hate AIM or MSN or Yahoo or whatever, but can't they just choose one of those and use one of the iPhone apps? Granted, the apps themselves aren't free, but isn't it hard to justify complaining about a $5-$10 app after buying an expensive iPhone? Doing this would likely require some kind of account somewhere, or direct support from Apple. And, given how AT&T/Apple allegedly appear to be suppressing free messaging apps, I'd be surprised if Apple adds something like this as a standard part of the iPhone, without significant pressure from Android or the Pre.

Because no corporate security department will be OK with you using AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc, for company related business.

What are the specifics on international messaging with BBM?

You can send a message to BlackBerry users anywhere in the world, on any carrier, and it doesn't cost a dime. Doesn't matter if the person you message is sitting next to you or halfway around the world, it's all the same.

And then people would get over it and use e-mail or an IM protocol from this century.

End.

Neither e-mail or IM offer the advantages of BBM.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

You can send a message to BlackBerry users anywhere in the world, on any carrier, and it doesn't cost a dime. Doesn't matter if the person you message is sitting next to you or halfway around the world, it's all the same.

That's what I thought.

And with that, I'm going to respectfully bow out of this discussion/argument. Short-sightedness is for some reason excessively frustrating to me tonight.

 

[TLewis]

Because no corporate security department will be OK with you using AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc, for company related business.

Good point. Out of curiosity, does BBM offer automatic message archiving?

IM can be encrypted, but very few clients support it. I don't think any of the iPhone clients do.

 

[dejo]

Because no corporate security department will be OK with you using AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc, for company related business.

No corporate security department? As in "none"? Sorry, but that's a pretty strong claim that in my experience is just incorrect. I've worked with several companies where YM was used for company related business. I've also seen Skype used.