Windows 7 a threat to the MAC OS? I seriously don't think there is much of a threat there. Even Tiger is better. Windows 7 is a bit faster, and less resource intensive than Vista, but IMO not nearly as stable in its current alpha form. Frankly, having developed Windows system software for many years, I don't see any way for MSFT to match the hardware/software synergy experience of the MAC. One can try to switch back to Windows (any version), but it does not take long to remember the motivation for the MAC switch in the first place. I keep trying to go back myself, but so far to no avail.
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Windows 7 is a threat to Apple's market share
- Thread starter petvas
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People just don't keep switching OSs. They simply don't care, as well as the machine they have can handle the job. Macs have great appeal, and Vista has gained a bad reputation, so lots of people probably switched to Macs. But it only matters at the time people go shopping for a new computer.
I think both MacOS and Windows are shaping into great operating systems. I could live with any of them. I just hope they continue to threaten each other forever, so Apple and Microsoft have incentives to keep getting better and better, without eliminating the other. I would also love to see Linux become a real threat.
I hope Windows 7 will be a real alternative, I have just returned my new Mini to Apple because I'm unable to make it work well because of the bloody permissions, messed up by Migration Assistant and not fixed by Disk Utility.
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9229269#9229269
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1955538&start=0&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9237812#9237812
I will try again when they launch Snow Leopard, but if they don't fix the permissions nightmare (useless in a personal computer and cause of recurrent and insolvable problems) I will have to switch to Windows 7.
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9229269#9229269
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1955538&start=0&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9237812#9237812
I will try again when they launch Snow Leopard, but if they don't fix the permissions nightmare (useless in a personal computer and cause of recurrent and insolvable problems) I will have to switch to Windows 7.
That's not related to a user's principles either. And when the software fails, yes, I do put all the blame on Windows.
If Windows 7 is good, then so much the better for all of us. Competition is good and will force all players to improve their products that much more.
That said, I don't think Windows 7 erases many of the advantages that OS X has. These include: attractiveness, intuitiveness, full-functionality out of the box (office being the big exception), and tight integration with the computer hardware and other devices (ipod, iphone, airport extreme,TV).
Personally, I won't be switching away from mac because I'm extremely satisfied with what I have. I'm not discounting the possibility that Windows 7 could be the best Windows yet, maybe even better than OS X, but my computer run very fast, never crashes, and runs all of the software I want (Btw, the idea that Outlook could be someone's reason for sticking with Windows is kinda funny to me... I have to use outlook at work, and I hate it. Outlook is an evil little program that does its best to thwart my attempts at productivity, and I can't imagine voluntarily using it over Mail. /rant). I have no reason to look elsewhere.
Curious you did not mention but Apple devices... Actually it is true that Apple works really well with esternal devices...From Apple. For example, my Sony-Ericsson phone, less than 1 year old, makes my Mac crash if I connect it. Works like a charm in my PC.
I haven't tried windows 7 yet so can not say that I would not move back to windows. I suspect that I will probably dual boot it as some point. Though so far the only time that I load up windows at the moment is when I play Sims. As that will be coming out on mac and PC at the same time I have put serious thought into getting rid of my windows partition. Windows 7 would have to be extremely good for me to consider moving back as I am not dissatisfied with OSX.
It's not always the OS companies fault.
I'm an OS software tester and we always provide the bug info to the external company. We inform them that their Product X is causing Result X in our current OS test build. Sometimes they send back the email equivalent of "We Don't Care". If they don't care then there is nothing we can do without their assistance, for example...we can't change the software on their phone. The OS then gets released with the bug still there. Thats why you often see stupid bugs in OS's that never get fixed or only get fixed a few years later after new management takes over that external company.
As for Windows 7...well MS will need all of their marketshare to buy W7 in the first year just to make up for Vista. Think of it in terms of raw profit. For every single person that buys a Mac, MS needs a bunch of people to buy Windows 7 cause they only make profit from the OS. Dell, HP, Sony, etc take the hardware profit. Apple takes the lot with one sale!
Back to an important point, and it is a very important point. Apple has always prided itself on making things that were easy to use and worked: you don't need twenty options, just one that worked well. Frankly, they are behind the curve with the HD video issue, and it is really inexcusable. I can vouch for that through personal experience. In real world terms, it would appear that Windows, as it exists now, is better at something that the average consumer really wants and will notice a difference in. Perhaps the new round of OS and software releases will rectify that deficiency (I suspect they will), but it does tarnish the Apple aura a bit and I am surprised that Apple would not have addressed it already, given it's focus on ease of use and the consumer market.
Windows 7
In my opinion, Windows 7 is not a threat to OSX/Apple because of several reasons:
1) Windows 7 is Vista warmed over and we know how well Vista sold
2) Bad marketing by Microsoft: 6 or 7 different Win 7 versions, ala Vista, which confused customers
3) Microsoft has the worst track record of any software company on the planet for attempting to make reliable, secure operating systems and software.
4) DRM
Of course Microsoft will flood the market with Windows 7 PCs because they have "forced" all of the hardware vendors into installing it. They will claim people love Windows 7 when sales are high, but people will have no choice but to get it because if they buy a PC, it comes with Windows 7, which skews the statistics because people are not actually buying Windows 7, they are buying a PC which happens to come with Windows 7.
The problem with my assumption that Windows 7 is not a threat is that consumers see computers as a commodity. The recent commercial about that woman who is looking at laptops and compares a PC laptop to an Apple is a good example of this. As a new Mac user, and an owner of an "ancient" Mac, I would disagree that computers are commodities in that I can plainly see quality differences in hardware, workmanship and software between PCs running Windows and Macs. This to me, makes Macs stand above PCs in terms of quality. I cannot speak for the quality of the new Intel Macs and OSX.
As for the software, I have had exposure from daily use and administration of Microsoft products for over a decade. My personal opinion is that Microsoft is a joke. Their products are clearly inferior to most other operating systems currently available, both commercially and Opensource. This applies to their "server" products and their desktops. I have run Linux desktops for over a decade and although there are issues with them, they run circles around Windows in terms of security and reliability. The same goes for Linux, BSD and Unix servers (AIX, HP-UX, etc).
What has made Microsoft popular is not their product quality but their sheer ability to flood the market with cheap, flashy products. They are all people know and thus have become ubiquitous. Microsoft knows they own the desktop and as far as I am concerned, this shows in the very poor quality of their products. They are able to put out garbage because they know we will eat it up, having no choice, seemingly limited choices, or are unware of other choices.
Having said all of this and most assuredly made some folks mad, I think Apple is in good shape because they have loyal customers. Microsoft apparently has loyal customers as well, but I have yet to figure out why because Microsoft could clearly care less about the consumer: their products offer "bling" but no substance, are cheap enough to attract consumers and as a result, the market is flooded and Micrrosoft makes money hand over fist.
Of course I could be completely wrong and Windows 7 takes off like crazy....nah!
In my opinion, Windows 7 is not a threat to OSX/Apple because of several reasons:
1) Windows 7 is Vista warmed over and we know how well Vista sold
2) Bad marketing by Microsoft: 6 or 7 different Win 7 versions, ala Vista, which confused customers
3) Microsoft has the worst track record of any software company on the planet for attempting to make reliable, secure operating systems and software.
4) DRM
Of course Microsoft will flood the market with Windows 7 PCs because they have "forced" all of the hardware vendors into installing it. They will claim people love Windows 7 when sales are high, but people will have no choice but to get it because if they buy a PC, it comes with Windows 7, which skews the statistics because people are not actually buying Windows 7, they are buying a PC which happens to come with Windows 7.
The problem with my assumption that Windows 7 is not a threat is that consumers see computers as a commodity. The recent commercial about that woman who is looking at laptops and compares a PC laptop to an Apple is a good example of this. As a new Mac user, and an owner of an "ancient" Mac, I would disagree that computers are commodities in that I can plainly see quality differences in hardware, workmanship and software between PCs running Windows and Macs. This to me, makes Macs stand above PCs in terms of quality. I cannot speak for the quality of the new Intel Macs and OSX.
As for the software, I have had exposure from daily use and administration of Microsoft products for over a decade. My personal opinion is that Microsoft is a joke. Their products are clearly inferior to most other operating systems currently available, both commercially and Opensource. This applies to their "server" products and their desktops. I have run Linux desktops for over a decade and although there are issues with them, they run circles around Windows in terms of security and reliability. The same goes for Linux, BSD and Unix servers (AIX, HP-UX, etc).
What has made Microsoft popular is not their product quality but their sheer ability to flood the market with cheap, flashy products. They are all people know and thus have become ubiquitous. Microsoft knows they own the desktop and as far as I am concerned, this shows in the very poor quality of their products. They are able to put out garbage because they know we will eat it up, having no choice, seemingly limited choices, or are unware of other choices.
Having said all of this and most assuredly made some folks mad, I think Apple is in good shape because they have loyal customers. Microsoft apparently has loyal customers as well, but I have yet to figure out why because Microsoft could clearly care less about the consumer: their products offer "bling" but no substance, are cheap enough to attract consumers and as a result, the market is flooded and Micrrosoft makes money hand over fist.
Of course I could be completely wrong and Windows 7 takes off like crazy....nah!
The myth that Windows Systems aren't secure is absolutely wrong. There was a study recently about the security vulnerabilities of all known platforms. This study was created by an IBM company...
http://www.h-online.com/security/IB...ulnerabilities-remain-unpatched--/news/112553
Microsoft is technologically far ahead, produces an OS that has to deal with compatibility, tons of different hardware combinations and they manage to make sth that works very well. Apple controls the hardware and the software, so they have an easier job to do...
Microsoft hasn't always produced quality products but this has changed. Most of their products in the 21st century are very well and stable. In the enterprise they are number one, and on the desktop market also...
Before finding every product that Microsoft makes bad, try using them first!
http://www.h-online.com/security/IB...ulnerabilities-remain-unpatched--/news/112553
Microsoft is technologically far ahead, produces an OS that has to deal with compatibility, tons of different hardware combinations and they manage to make sth that works very well. Apple controls the hardware and the software, so they have an easier job to do...
Microsoft hasn't always produced quality products but this has changed. Most of their products in the 21st century are very well and stable. In the enterprise they are number one, and on the desktop market also...
Before finding every product that Microsoft makes bad, try using them first!
I would disagree about Microsoft being number one in enterprise. Server 2003 has to be constantly rebooted because of security patch applications. This means in order to run Server 2003 in an enterprise environment, you must have a server farm so the constant reboots are not apparent to the customer. A server which has to be rebooted after applying trivial (non, core os patches) is a very badly designed server. On the desktop, Microsoft is number one because they flood the market, not because they make a good product - there is no other choice besides Linux and OSX and most consumers are not willing to shift to something they know nothing about.
I agree that Microsoft has a tougher job of compatibility because they don't control the hardware, but I disagree about Microsoft products being secure. Server 2003 has more "high" vulnerabilities than any other operating system listed in the National Security Vulnerability Database (http://nvd.nist.gov/).
I have used nearly every OS Microsoft has ever put out and I thought they were great until I found there are alternatives: Linux, OSX, BSD. Once I saw what the alternatives could do, how stable they were, especially in the server environment, I realized how bad Microsoft products were.
I am not saying Microsoft developers are stupid - you surely cannot be stupid and create an operating system. I am saying their management team has made some incredibly bad decisions about product direction and the consumer is the one feeling the pain. I am not unjustly slamming Microsoft - anyone who has managed their servers can acknowledge my frustration.
I've stirred up the ant's nest enough, I'll stop now...
Come on folks.
Windows still uses a Registry. Archaic.
Though when MS is %80 of the market the sheer force of inertia is enough to propel them for years.
Would I switch to Windows full time? Hell no. The absurdity of Windows Genuine Advantage and the garrish looks of the OS don't appeal to me. But I could see others happy with Windows 7 much as I plan to be happy with Snow Leopard.
Windows still uses a Registry. Archaic.
Though when MS is %80 of the market the sheer force of inertia is enough to propel them for years.
Would I switch to Windows full time? Hell no. The absurdity of Windows Genuine Advantage and the garrish looks of the OS don't appeal to me. But I could see others happy with Windows 7 much as I plan to be happy with Snow Leopard.
I don't argue that Windows 7 may be the best call for you, and certainly for most of the Hackintosh folk out there. And yes, Microsoft has more to contend with in security than OSX or Linux due to hardware and software marketshare (why target a virus for the smaller share in either). But I just think they are not comparable on that level; you defend Microsoft because they have to contend with a wider range of hardware, I just say that Apple makes more sense BECAUSE they target to a specific line of hardware, one that they can also control. Microsoft could partner with the major companies if they wanted and build something more stable and focused; Linux would certainly pick up the slack and MS would probably gain back a lot of Mac switchers...
At the end of the day whatever works for you works. All of my machines are PPC, so chances are in a couple years I will be mostly BlackBox Debian, but right now I'm mostly OSX. If I bought non-mac hardware, I might be running OpenSUSE or Ubuntu, I might be running Windows, who knows?
As for why I don't use Microsoft products, I tried enough of them (Outlook, Office, VirtualPC, Windows 95, Windows 98, a Zune, etc.) to know that they are inefficient and buggy, they completely exemplify the "put it out now, fix it later" attitude that most software companies have now adopted (seriously, when was the last time you bought a piece of software that worked completely out of the box? From ANYONE?), and there are very stable open source alternatives to any I might even need (I run Neo/OpenOffice and find it actually better than MSOffice). I don't think they are a bad company, but I don't think they are a good company either, based on my experience. Fortunately, because of the hardware we use, the issue is kind of irrelevant for me.
I just don't understand the Apple/MS battle on the user end. If you're getting what you need, good. If not, go find it. Kind of basic logic. *shrug*
That's very a very good way to put it - now I feel bad for flaming the OS battle...
I guess people are just loyal and want to defend what they like, that seems natural.It seems you haven't really read about Win7 at all or tried it. It's a big improvement over any previous Windows, not just "Vista warmed all over". I was going to buy a Macbook but because I found the hardware lacking and the Win7 betas became available, I've stuck to my PC. I had OSX and Win7 installed on it but now I find myself just using Win7 because in many ways it gives a better user experience than OSX for what I do. OSX has the upper hand in some things but overall I find Win7 more pleasant. OSX has its own set of flaws and quirks even though it has lots of things I really like.
Those currently using OSX will most likely not move to Win7 except on Bootcamp for games but those who start using Win7 may stay away from OSX unless Snow Leopard improves the experience. People might go "what is this Dock? It does so much less than Win7's taskbar" for example.
And DRM? What DRM?
Even if Windows 7 is as good as or even better than OS X I cant see Apple loosing much in the way of market share.
If you look at the whole experience with Apple, from spending as long as you like in an Apple shop with someone talking you through everything down to one to one training or apple care... Microsoft has nothing really to compare to any of this as they just sell the OS not the hardware.
That's my thinking anyway... I think anyone who has seen the light would probably stay with Apple when they think about the bigger picture
If you look at the whole experience with Apple, from spending as long as you like in an Apple shop with someone talking you through everything down to one to one training or apple care... Microsoft has nothing really to compare to any of this as they just sell the OS not the hardware.
That's my thinking anyway... I think anyone who has seen the light would probably stay with Apple when they think about the bigger picture
While Windows 7 Beta is improved, you can't trim the ears and tail off a donkey to produce a race horse... its still Windows.
The Start Menu is still a disjointed attempt to hide a decrepit underlying filesystem with shortcuts (from other users) that are not aware if the underlying file, perhaps somewhere under "C:\Program Files\{CompanyName}\Product\thefile~.exe", mixed together with DLLs, etc. visible to the user was moved or deleted without awkwardly having to search for it when the user tries to access it, just to name one of many, many, MANY quirks.
The Start Menu is still a disjointed attempt to hide a decrepit underlying filesystem with shortcuts (from other users) that are not aware if the underlying file, perhaps somewhere under "C:\Program Files\{CompanyName}\Product\thefile~.exe", mixed together with DLLs, etc. visible to the user was moved or deleted without awkwardly having to search for it when the user tries to access it, just to name one of many, many, MANY quirks.
Windows 7
You are correct, I have not tried Windows 7 and will never try Windows 7. Windows 7 shares a code base with Vista, but is considerably pruned down and more efficient. This is good move on Microsoft's part actually, but it has grown from Vista. that's what I meant by "warmed over Vista".
Vista has DRM built into it's core because Microsoft is all about control of the user. I guess I am making the DRM assumption about Windows 7 since Vista embraces DRM so heavily, and Windows 7 grew from Vista, but I could be wrong. I can't see Microsoft giving the user anything in the way of freedom though, that's not their M.O.
My opinion of Microsoft is not a good one and I have my reasons, but I have already ranted enough about it...suffice it to say XP Pro is the last product I will ever buy from them, period. When available hardware stops running XP and my hardware dies, I will buy a console to game on. XP, and Windows in general means nothing more to me than a shell to game on. The PCs I rely on for day to day activities run Linux and have for over a decade. My recently aquired G4 is now pulling duty as my main computer, but I still use Linux every day in some capacity.
Not trying to bash Microsoft or anything, but I just can't take them seriously any more.
You are correct, I have not tried Windows 7 and will never try Windows 7. Windows 7 shares a code base with Vista, but is considerably pruned down and more efficient. This is good move on Microsoft's part actually, but it has grown from Vista. that's what I meant by "warmed over Vista".
Vista has DRM built into it's core because Microsoft is all about control of the user. I guess I am making the DRM assumption about Windows 7 since Vista embraces DRM so heavily, and Windows 7 grew from Vista, but I could be wrong. I can't see Microsoft giving the user anything in the way of freedom though, that's not their M.O.
My opinion of Microsoft is not a good one and I have my reasons, but I have already ranted enough about it...suffice it to say XP Pro is the last product I will ever buy from them, period. When available hardware stops running XP and my hardware dies, I will buy a console to game on. XP, and Windows in general means nothing more to me than a shell to game on. The PCs I rely on for day to day activities run Linux and have for over a decade. My recently aquired G4 is now pulling duty as my main computer, but I still use Linux every day in some capacity.
Not trying to bash Microsoft or anything, but I just can't take them seriously any more.
Noticed you also switched from iphone, interesting. Anyways some of us just don't work well with Windows, Apple will still be around when Windows 7 is released, they aren't going nowhere. We'll be enjoying our Snow Leopard and see what the future holds.
I left windows as my primary in 04/05 because I saw what Vista was going to be and I didn't like it. I go where what i feel the best environment for me is. If Win7 can (or more likely its successor) can deliver that, I'll buy what they are selling.
Disclaimer:
I bought a few copies of Vista because Windows Media center is so much better than Front Row and more convienent for me than Plex.
Also where's my WinFS?
Disclaimer:
I bought a few copies of Vista because Windows Media center is so much better than Front Row and more convienent for me than Plex.
Also where's my WinFS?