Windows Goes Multi-Touch

[Syrus28]

Yes, Window's continually eroding market share.

Yes, with its worldwide decline of about .2% a year, Mac OS X will have overtaken it by the year 2500...

Unfortunately, Linux is not yet stable enough, but Linux has indeed caused erosion in Windows Marketshare, as has OS X.

You can't deny the impact Mac OS X has had, but Linux... Not so much. What is its market share, less than 1%?

And they are exercising it by regressively choosing XP over Vista.

Really? Im pretty sure Vista sales are more than double the present Xp sales. Either way, it's money in Microsoft's pocket.

 

[Clive At Five]

Yes, we've seen demos like this before but mainly from Jeff Han's team. This is the first time we've seen something like it from someone with the cash to implement it. Sure the iPhone has "multi-touch," but in a very limited sense of the term, especially in comparison to the demos of Han, and now Microsoft. (Pinch & swipe? That's it?)

To all the annoying MS-bashers, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Windows XP is to Windows ME as Windows 7 is to Windows Vista. Translation, Windows users are in for a treat. As predominantly a Mac user, I'm happy that MS will finally bring a little competition to the table. Competition leads to better products for all consumers. The MS-bashers just don't understand that.

-Clive

 

[DMann]

Again, your clinging to old problems. That article was wrote nearly a year ago, and I can't help but notice no major publication has that story. Also, Microsoft claimed all Xbox 360s sold in the 19 months before that had a defect that MAY lead to problems. Fast forward 11 months and 8 million more 360' sold, the Division has claimed a profit of $90 million for the last 2 quarters.

If FOX News and Associated Press are not major in the publication world, then
I stand corrected:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288313,00.html

a potential 1 Billion dollar loss in Q3 2007 will certainly eat a mere $90 Million profit (again, not net) in Q1,2

 

[Syrus28]

If FOX News and Associated Press are not major in the publication world, then
I stand corrected:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288313,00.html

a potential 1 Billion dollar loss in Q3 2007 will certainly eat a mere $90 Million profit (again, not net) in Q1,2

Which is a sharp contrast from Microsoft claiming "All Xbox 360's sold for the last 19 months are defective"

Also, the Billion dollars was written off by Microsoft as a whole, not the Xbox Division itself, therefore still technically "profitable" for the last 2 quarters.

 

[Peace]

Which is a sharp contrast from Microsoft claiming "All Xbox 360's sold for the last 19 months are defective"

Also, the Billion dollars was written off by Microsoft as a whole, not the Xbox Division itself, therefore still technically "profitable" for the last 2 quarters.

"Microsoft has written down larger amounts in the past — more than $10 billion in the late 1990s related to investments in telecommunications companies, and more than $5 billion related to antitrust issues — but a $1 billion write-down for one division in one quarter is significant."

 

[G58]

Agreed.

The only people I forgive for touching my screen are under five years old. Above that age, I assume they understand the phrase: "Please don't touch the screen". Below that age, I assume it's my fault for letting them.

I want to barf when I see that photo being kinked at an angle. I've been in marketing for too many years, and I know someone's got no taste when they do that on a brochure or ad leaflet. The only time it works is when the suggestion is being made that a photo has been dropped casually, and a drop shadow is employed. Otherwise it's for fools.

Nothing about this 'surface' warmed-up coffee table idea has any use whatsoever. And those who're suggesting we'd all be singing a different song if Apple had come up with it, are fools. Apple did come up with it, where it's useful - in a small device with no keyboard.

If Apple release a dual screen iPhone Pro, in which the second screen has multiple interfaces... that's a very different matter. It will be useful.

I don't know if anyone really thinks differently here but I'm VERY careful not to touch my computer displays at all and clean them VERY carefully and thoroughly. As someone has said before, I don't want fingerprints on my screen.

Not even if Apple releases something similar (which I hope they don't in the near future, it's useless.) Can you imagine the strain on your arms, using multitouch on such a large surface in a crooked way?

 

[DMann]

Yes, with its worldwide decline of about .2% a year, Mac OS X will have overtaken it by 2500...

No one ever mentioned overtaking anyone's marketshare.

You can't deny the impact Mac OS X has had, but Linux... Not so much. What is its market share, less than 1%?

Linux has undergone 61.6% growth since May of 2007. (from 1.25% to 2.01% of Internet users in March of 2008) As the platform matures, the growth will so continue.

Really? Im pretty sure Vista sales are more than double the present Xp sales. Either way, it's money in Microsoft's pocket.

Vista Sales do not reflect returns and exhanges for XP. With the enormous market share Windows has, at this time, the conversion to Vista has been disappointing, to say the least.

 

[Dan9794]

Am I the only one that thinks M$ should be fixing Vista instead of thinking about coming out with a new OS. That's like giving someone a sandwich with only bread then giving them another sanwich with only bread. (Bread=Bad OS)

 

[SirROM]

That was the Whole Point....

Imagine if Apple announced system wide multitouch at WWDC for the next version of OS X. That would sure piss off the Windows 7 team!!!

That's WHY Ball-Gate announced the touch aspect of Windows 7 already, because they fear Apple is going to release a tablet/touchOS at WWDC and they want to ride the coattails. Remember when Apple was supposed to release a tablet/phone and just before MacWorld, Microsoft announced the UMPC concept? They wanted to appear as being first and that Apple had stolen their idea.

Of course, they are just talking about what they plan to to do, Apple and Steve will show the world what they have already accomplished

 

[DMann]

Most people DO NOT buy a computer because it has windows...most people buy a computer because they need one for internet and email, the most basic of tasks, and only want to pay maybe a max of $500. The fact that it has windows is irrelevant to these people until they start getting viruses and such and then with shock exclaim "you mean there is another OS we could run that DOESN'T mess up all of the time?" Most people just don't want to put down $1200 for a computer up front...they would rather buy windows and pay $400 a year on either
A: services to disinfect, or cleanup said windows computer.
or B: a new computer to replace the windows computer that crapped out.
Of course doing this yearly, it's really just the same cost to buy a Mac that would last you 3 to 4 years anyways. I guess you can't fix "stupid" though.

Another thing is that people use Windows, because it's the only thing that most of them know. Their parents use it, their siblings use it, their work uses it, and their neighbors use it. I recently had a conversation with my mother who said that she had never considered buying a Mac until recent extensive use with my MacBook. She had never used one before. She knew no one who used them. But she saw from mine how clearly superior they are, and now my parents will be purchasing a new iMac for their house in the coming weeks. Macs market share has risen slowly over the years...I believe it is still only at about 7-9%. I have a feeling that once the Mac market share hits about 15%, that it will skyrocket within the 2 or 3 years after that...because people will suddenly start seeing them more frequently and knowing that there IS a BETTER alternative to Windows. It's just a theory but I think it makes sense.

I completely agree with the "touch will never truly take over the desktop" theory. Touch works AMAZING on portable devices, such as cell phones and iPods because of the simplicity of the devices. Surfing the web and emailing are awesome on touch devices, and more convenient in my opinion, then on a desktop. I could even see conventional laptops being replaced in the future with touch devices. I don't however think that the desktop could be replaced. It's just not comfortable or convenient to hold your arms in the air for a touch monitor, unless they incorporate it into the table. The desktop computer with advanced applications like Photoshop or Final Cut, is also much to advanced, with an exact precision needed that can only be obtained with a mouse so far. I don't think multi-touch is close to matching the precision needed for those certain applications yet.

And in closing this little essay/rant of mine:

Microsoft really needs to get busy innovating, or get busy shutting down. The company offers nothing of value anymore and it would be nice if they'd just give their money to Apple, so we could get some amazing technology. I can dream right?

Right you are! Unfortunately, MicroSoft is not in the business of innovation. They will continue to cater to those who are willing to settle for 'barely good enough,' to those who are unaware of anything else, (OSX) or to those who need to run certain MS programs, which will never be ported to OS X, for fear of greater Windows defection. The Apple Store strategy seems to be opening the eyes of many poor souls who have been previously unaware of a better alternative, to a much better alternative.

 

[Jaschr]

Where did they say they were going to put Ctrl, Alt, and Delete? I'm going to play with one at Bestbuy after I eat some chicken wings.

 

[Syrus28]

No one ever mentioned overtaking anyone's marketshare.

Yes, but you did comment on Window's degrading market share. I was simply putting it in perspective.

Linux has undergone 61.6% growth since May of 2007. (from 1.25% to 2.01% of Internet users in March of 2008) As the platform matures, the growth will so continue.

No doubt it will grow, but its market share is still minimal. Reportedy, Linux market share just passed Windows 98 last year, standing at 1.48% worldwide.

Vista Sales do not reflect returns and exhanges for XP. With the enormous market share Windows has, at this time, the conversion to Vista has been disappointing, to say the least.

Yes, but it would be nice to note that with Dell offering XP, Linux, and Vista, while HP and Lenovo offer Linux, and Vista, over 90% of new computer sales are coming with Vista.

 

[DMann]

Vista

Am I the only one that thinks M$ should be fixing Vista instead of thinking about coming out with a new OS. That's like giving someone a sandwich with only bread then giving them another sanwich with only bread. (Bread=Bad OS)

Unfortunately, Vista cannot be fixed. As it was, over 80% of it's code needed to be trashed, and features were dropped. It was a miracle, according to an employee in their OS division, that it was released at all.

 

[Syrus28]

That's WHY Ball-Gate announced the touch aspect of Windows 7 already, because they fear Apple is going to release a tablet/touchOS at WWDC and they want to ride the coattails. Remember when Apple was supposed to release a tablet/phone and just before MacWorld, Microsoft announced the UMPC concept? They wanted to appear as being first and that Apple had stolen their idea.

Of course, they are just talking about what they plan to to do, Apple and Steve will show the world what they have already accomplished

Microsoft's multi-touch is significant is that by putting it in Windows, it will have about 15 times more outreach than Apple incorporating it into their next OS.

 

[Syrus28]

Unfortunately, Vista cannot be fixed. As it was, over 80% of it's code needed to be trashed, and features were dropped. It was a miracle, according to an employee in their OS division, that it was released at all.

May I ask, when is the last time you used Vista? You seem to be clinging onto old problems. If Vista was truly as bad as you make it out to be, 90% of new computers wouldn't be ordered with them. There are alternatives.

 

[Agathon]

The problem of multitouch is not getting the technology to work, but creating useful interface paradigms for it to work with. The Microsoft demo doesn't do the latter. There's nothing there that isn't completely obvious or hasn't been done before.

A multitouch computer is going to have to have a fundamentally different kind of GUI.

Anyway, it is completely obvious that Apple is working on bringing multitouch to its other products, because that is the way Apple has always worked: try something out in one place and then bring it elsewhere. That's why the Finder looks more like iTunes these days.

Microsoft won't do anything worthwhile with multitouch because they are a useless company. All they do are show off cool tech demos that never make it into the final product. Go look at some of the tech demos of Longhorn. Those were far better than the stinker that ended up being released as Vista. When Apple gives a tech demo, the result usually ends up being commercially released. That's why people are always pleasantly surprised by Apple products and usually disappointed with MS junk.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I think Jobs already won since the iPhone runs OS X and has multitouch. Also, the Macbooks Air and Pro have multitouch trackpads, so OS X (the one on computers) definitely has some multitouch already. The difference is, no Mac has multitouch on the display yet.

Yah because the iPhone == a good OS wide implementation of touch. Ditto with the Apple's use of multitouch with the trackpad. This is in the same vein as coverflow....the concept was purchased from a third party and since day one has felt tacked on to the OS\iTunes\Etc.

 

[DMann]

Microsoft's multi-touch is significant is that by putting it in Windows, it will have about 15 times more outreach than Apple incorporating it into their next OS.

Those numbers will likely be less by the time 2012 rolls around.

 

[ipedro]

I think this is going to be one of those threads like the iPod thread where everybody is calling it "useless", "just a gimmick", "will be dead in just a few years"...

Multi Touch is the future of UI. People are trying to apply multi-touch to the technology and standards of today... which is why it doesn't make sense.

PC's as they exist today will be seen as relics of the past.. sitting at a desk or with a computer in your lap for hours doing all your work and entertainment? Why?

"Computers" will be decentralized, casual use and specific use devices –ubiquitous to our daily lives.

You'll be able to go up to a wall or a screen on your fridge and quickly pay a bill, manage the home HVAC or purchase a song to listen to while you make dinner.

If you want to sit down and watch a TV show or view your photos, something like TV will be the device you turn to.

You want to read the news or a certain written based website? Grab a tablet that looks like an oversized iPhone, hit a few touch screen buttons to go to your favorite site and begin reading. Drag or flick to scroll/change the page.

For work, I can imagine Photoshop for example beginning to turn to all stylus/finger based. You do your drawing and manipulation directly on the screen with a stylus – how much more intuitive can you get? – and select tools and buttons with your fingers. The screen/computer would be a slate type and drawn on/manipulated like a piece of paper on the desk.
Coding work as well as writing would continue to make use of a keyboard.

I can see multi touch becoming very useful.. just not with the standard setup we use today.

People have this perception that a screen must be perpendicular to a surface. They have this perception because either all their lives – for the young members out there – or since computers became mainstream, computer displays had a limitation derived from CRT screens: they were big and bulky and had to be positioned in a way that the tube was pointing away from the user. As computers and their displays get slim enough (they're already there really), it'll become practical to use a computer just as people intuitively used paper before computers were around.

I've been saying it since Leopard was launched: Leopard is the last OS X iteration. I'm willing to bet that Jobs will announce the next version of Mac OS will be a multi touch based OS that will move in the direction that I've explained above.

OS iPhone and OS TV will be joined by Mac OS (whatever the name will be) as a multi touch family of digital devices who will each have their own ideal function.

 

[Syrus28]

Those numbers will likely be less by the time 2012 rolls around.

Less, yes. But how much less? Not much.

 

[tylerhbrown]

Wow, really!?!?

Really!!????
I mean you guys arent totally psyched to be able to do the same Fing thing you can do with your phone!?!?! Spinning pictures!?!?! thats the most productive app I have ever seen!!!! If only Gates's team can figure out a way to make a video if a dancing baby pop up on your screen and stream using minimal band with, well, then.... Then that guy just might make a million dollars.
THB

THBproductions.com

 

[inkswamp]

Im glad you think Microsoft, the biggest tech company in existence, has never got anything right. How about Windows being the first major OS to add preemptive multitasking and memory protection,

Hell, let's get right down to it and give MS credit for their biggest success: the GUI. Apple was first to get the GUI into a commercial product, but it was Microsoft that successfully pushed it out to a wider audience and a larger market and made it universally accepted as opposed to just being a cool feature on one company's products.

 

[netdog]

I don't want fingerprints on my screen.

This is really what it comes down to. I agree. It's not appropriate for most of our primary computing devices.

Now a large trackpad with an LCD and multi-touch, that's another story.

 

[SiliconAddict]

May I ask, when is the last time you used Vista? You seem to be clinging onto old problems. If Vista was truly as bad as you make it out to be, 90% of new computers wouldn't be ordered with them. There are alternatives.

They never did. That's the point. Mac zealots talk trash about crap they don't know ANYTHING at all about. Vista is a supreme modular OS. The the biggest point of Vista and its descendants is its modularity. You don't need to start from scratch to replace this or that. But again. _MANY_ but not all Mac users are people who are ignorant trash talkers who know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about anything Microsoft beyond the party line of "OMG! M$! SUCKS! AHHH SUCKS!" remember...Think Lemming guys.

Seriously though it would be refreshing to see people think for themselves for once.

 

[Syrus28]

I think this is going to be one of those threads like the iPod thread where everybody is calling it "useless", "just a gimmick", "will be dead in just a few years"...

Multi Touch is the future of UI. People are trying to apply multi-touch to the technology and standards of today... which is why it doesn't make sense.

PC's as they exist today will be seen as relics of the past.. sitting at a desk or with a computer in your lap for hours doing all your work and entertainment? Why?

"Computers" will be decentralized, casual use and specific use devices –ubiquitous to our daily lives.

You'll be able to go up to a wall or a screen on your fridge and quickly pay a bill, manage the home HVAC or purchase a song to listen to while you make dinner.

If you want to sit down and watch a TV show or view your photos, something like TV will be the device you turn to.

You want to read the news or certain writing based website? Grab a tablet that looks like an oversized iPhone, hit a few touch screen buttons to go to your favorite site and begin reading. Drag or flick to scroll/change the page.

I can see multi touch becoming very useful.. just not with the standard setup we use today.

I've been saying it since Leopard was launched: Leopard is the last OS X iteration. I'm willing to bet that Jobs will announce the next version of Mac OS will be a multi touch based OS that will move in the direction that I've explained above.

While nice, do you really think that after creating a multi touch phone, that Apple will no longer create a conventional OS and go straight into a full-fledged multi-touch based OS? Thats a big jump.