Windows Goes Multi-Touch

[shikimo]

"Arbeit Macht Frei" - the biggest lie in history. Every dictator and megalomaniac since has been competing with that one.

Just for the record, the Nazi commander who had that particular gate installed--Hoss, I believe his name was--was a former POW during the Weimar years who, by all accounts, really believed that manual labor helped him build character and survive his internment.

As a majority of the people locked up and/or murdered at Auschwitz didn't understand written German--most were from eastern and central European countries--most historians have concluded that the 'arbeit macht frei' gate, like those found at multiple concentration camps, were there to subliminally reassure the workers more than the prisoners.

Even if it was appropriate to include a computer company with questionable motives/practices/marketing strategies in an anology with death camps--which it isn't--the comparison doesn't make any sense.

 

[kamiboy]

27 to 1, that sounds like the going rate of swine to perl.

 

[Syrus28]

You know, people like you make me laugh. You don't realize that Windows users are and have been the true lemmings...

The difference between Apple Fanboys (me included) and Apple bashers (like you) is that Apple bashers aren't really Microsoft fanboys; they don't really love Windows the way Apple users love Apple, it's that, deep down inside they feel they made the wrong choice because they followed blindly with the rest of the mindless Microsoft herd. And of course when you hear people switching over to a Mac and the joy and revelation it brings; to finally realize what was wrong with computing in the Windows world (i.e. having to "deal" with the OS constantly instead of just getting on with the enjoyment of computing) you get frustrated and angry and start bashing on every Mac forum you can find to somehow prove that your Windows choice is valid and better and that Mac users are all blind.

But the truth of the matter actually is; when Ballmer says "10 Million people like Macs and 290 Million people like Windows PC" he (as always) is wrong. 10 Million people CHOSE Macs because it actually makes them more productive and their computing experience more enjoyable... and probably about 80% of the 290 Million Windows people just didn't know any better! They didn't realize they had a choice! I STILL have friends that use Windows not because they like it (in fact, they really truly hate it) but because they don't think there is a true choice. I ask them why not switch to a Mac? They always say, "Oh, I thought about it. They look sexy and all but, I don't want to have to relearn computing and aren't they way more expensive? And aren't they supposed to be going out of business soon or something?" And that's the old fallacy. Now all things being equal (with Intel processors) a brand name PC with the same specs as an Apple will cost the same, but the Apple will have more useful software, be more stable, have a better user experience and be easier to learn out of the box, have a longer resell value and THESE are the reasons that Mac converts become fanboys... because they have seen the light. And THIS is the reason Apple bashers that still use Windows hate Mac users, because they didn't really truly explore their options and they feel left out now from the "in" crowd. They just don't get it...

Ok, rant over.

You are exactly the type of person he is describing.

P.S 20% of 290 million is still 58 million---i.e. more than 10 million

 

[foniks2020]

There we are again: being closed minded. Why must your screen be perpendicular to a surface? Why should the screen be in front of you? Is that how you read a book? Is that how you write on a paper?

In the example of reading this site, you'd have a slate style screen that you'd pick up with one or two hands and read like a book. You could rest it on your lap or hold it up... whichever is more comfortable to you. You'd flick the screen to scroll or change pages.

We don't have the constraints of heavy displays any longer, therefore you don't have to reach up in front of you with your arms up in the air.

To be fair... nobody should be using a 20 in. touch display unless they are presenting something or it's a workgroup display (like MS Surface)... Touch Screen hardware is going to need to be hi-res and independent res... as in like the iPhone/iPod Touch it needs to be 160 dpi + and ideally would be at the resolution of a high quality magazine 2400 dpi.... yeah, that good.

When the display is of such a high quality, you no longer have to sit at arms length for optimal viewing (both in terms of eye strain and in terms of aliasing artifacts getting in the way of a quality composite image).

So with a smallish, 13 - 15 in. display at very high resolution, you'll be able to interact with a lot more information than what you currently work with on a 30 in. display. With resolution independence aka vector based UI, you can make icons, text, etc. whatever size you need to best work on the task at hand.

Most personal tasks will not need anything larger than a 13 - 15 in. display... whereas for professional work such as what a designer might need to do... a separate large display would be great for previewing a composition but still most editing work can be done on the smaller touch screen.

Personally i would love to have a tablet mac to connect to my 30 in. ACD where I could work on both at the same time with the tablet showing either the entire canvas of the larger screen or only a portion of it but at the same zoom level... with a marquee showing on the larger screen what portion the smaller display is currently previewing/editing.

 

[infowarfare]

You are exactly the type of person he is describing.

P.S 20% of 290 million is still 58 million---i.e. more than 10 million

And you too are exactly the person I was describing and you STILL don't get it. Reread what I posted, open your mind, explore your options... it's not too late!

 

[0098386]

i think jobs is more than aware that as it stands currently, touch as a MAIN feature for a computer is useless

Keep thinking that, my cousin runs a business that sells touchscreen computers (like an iMac) and monitors and they're doing extremely well. I've no idea who's buying them but from first hand experience there is a very big market. But these aren't some kind of super computer - they're just a regular PC with a keyboard and mouse that also houses a touchscreen and some drivers to make it work.

Though on a laptop? It'd need to have one sturdy hinge to stop it being tilted whenever you touched the display.

 

[Syrus28]

And you too are exactly the person I was describing and you STILL don't get it. Reread what I posted, open your mind, explore your options... it's not too late!

No, I don't get it. I've been using a Macbook since early 2007 and I still don't see the "light"... Thats more your territory, it seems.

 

[leehericks]

WWDC should be intresting this year. They should already go ahead and give us a beta preview of some of the features. Just a sneak peek. I'm not going to give a good reason as of why. That's for you to figure out.

Perhaps we are on track to hear something about 10.6. I wonder what the next big cat will be. They've finally got a lot of foundations built and the OS unified with 10.5. Perhaps a really useful implementation of multi-touch will be the hot point of the next version. Along with more bug squashing hopefully.

I think the current implementation of multitouch on the trackpad was the wisest choice for now. No extra cost for touch screens and keeping your hands in the "input area" of a laptop and not blocking the display. For traditional laptops, this is really handy. I love playing with the MacBook Air at the store.

 

[timothyjay2004]

Well, it's nice to know that Windows (7) will have finally get established iPhone capabilities...

Could they please do something for once that no one else has done? I think competition is good, it allows for new ideas to come about and for those ideas to be modified in the best ways. All that Microsoft has done is implement ideas from other companies, not just Apple, into their OS. They used to be good about this, but that was in the Windows 98 or less era. Now, they can't get ahead anymore because they're too busy trying to catch up...

I honestly believe that Apple will have this 1 1/2 years (or more) sooner in their OS (10.6?) before Microsoft attempts to mainstream it into theirs, supposedly in 2010. The smarter thing to do would be to add the code into Vista for SP2 to gain an edge, then build off of it for OS 7 ... but they like to do everything backwards. I honestly believe that their 2010 time frame is too soon. Hell, not enough people have even purchased Vista yet. I firmly believe that their OS 7 will not be available until mid 2012 with a release in Q4 .. and in all truthfulness, it still probably won't be ready by then but at least it'll be out...

 

[Syrus28]

Well, it's nice to know that Windows (7) will have finally get established iPhone capabilities...

Could they please do something for once that no one else has done? I think competition is good, it allows for new ideas to come about and for those ideas to be modified in the best ways. All that Microsoft has done is implement ideas from other companies, not just Apple, into their OS. They used to be good about this, but that was in the Windows 98 or less era. Now, they can't get ahead anymore because they're too busy trying to catch up...

What ideas are you talking about? Who are they trying to catch up to? It seems people are just saying things they see other people say.

Sorry if I come off a little hostile...

 

[JesterJJZ]

"Windows 7" sounds like old technology...

 

[Syrus28]

"Windows 7" sounds like old technology...

"Leopard" sounds like a cat...

 

[winterspan]

HAHAHAHH! This **** is RIDICULOUS! Microsoft is so retarded.

1) First of all, Microsoft doesn't sell computer hardware

2) The only reason some odd hundred million new PCs will have windows on them next year is only because of market momentum and not having competitors. People don't buy Windows because of it's great feature set, it's just the only real choice for average users. Ubuntu is great, but because of MS's monopoly, many software and hardware developers don't have linux ports of their software and drivers.

3) I especially wouldn't be bragging about how many copies of an OS I'm selling when all of my customers only want to purchase SEVEN YEAR OLD products because our latest is such rubbish.

Avoiding the practicality argument for a moment, I've never understood why ANYONE would want multi-touch on a normal computer screen. Multi-touch interfaces work great on smartphones and small tablets which you hold in your hand and look down towards, thus being an intuitive and painless way to navigate the OS via finger touch. On the other hand, manipulating a multi-touch interface on a laptop or desktop computer by reaching your arms out in front of you and touching the screen is completely impractical. How long do you think you could do that? 10 minutes maybe before you arms would get tired?

And regarding the practicality of multi-touch, again I think it is only really useful on a small phone or tablet to be a means for limited control of certain applications, and possibly gesture control shortcuts. Seriously, look at all the applications that have been invented for multi-touch. Other than navigation of large 2D and 3D spaces (think Google maps / Google Earth), what practical use does anyone see? Now, I'm not saying that there won't be future development of new ways to use the technology outside of entertainment, but for most applications and use cases for a typical PC, the keyboard and mouse are the fastest and most practical input devices for actually getting things done. I really can't think of much that would benefit from having a multi-touch screen bolted onto the existing windows user interface.

Try to find a use for a multi-touch touch-screen for

- web browsing
- software / web development
- graphic design
- video editing and production
- financial / accounting / spreadsheets work
- sales / CRM / HR
- word processing and document management
- CAD/CAM and Engineering
- Scientific computing and Mathematics
- ?



edit: Just for the record, I don't have an intrinsic hate for Microsoft, and I use their technologies for web and software development every day. It's not an Apple thing either, as I criticize them as well. What really bothers me about MS is not only the unethical business tactics they use, but the deliberate arrogance and incompetence they show towards their customers, partners, and the technology industry in general. For a long time now, they've been a negative force for almost everyone. They ran their only browser competitor out of business, and once they had complete domination of the market, they stopped development and progress of IE for years. IE has been the bane of all web developers existence for years. It's the most wide spread browser, and nearly every version of it has been complete rubbish with endless rendering bugs, totally inadequate support of modern web standards, and ugly proprietary extensions that have been the primary driver of all things malware. Microsoft consistently works to undermine technology community standards in order to force "vendor lock-in" and monopolization of their products. They also buy up ALL SORTS of small companies with promising technology, and end up either burying it or turning it into crap. They don't understand the concept of "innovation" or "originality" at all, instead they universally copy and rip-off ideas from other companies and individuals, and yet even those they copy they can't implement correctly. They treat their customers like crap all the time. Whether it's the draconian vista activation crap, to screwing all their PlaysForSure/MSN music customers by shutting down the DRM servers so they can't authorize computers, it is definitely a pattern of arrogance.

Bottom line, Microsoft represents many of the things that we hate in large companies with arrogant executives that think they can screw over partners, distributors, and customers without any consequences. Unfortunately, because their market status in operating systems and software always brings in the cash, they are able to get away with a lot.

 

[zirngast99]

Wow

there is nothing more to say: WOW! What an accomplishment! M$ inocrporated IPhone technology into a PC! What a big leap for mankind! They made somthing really big out of something really small! That's fantastic! Windows-User will love this, as they love everything that is big and heavy and brings a lot of cpu-power (just to keep their OS running).

So what's next? Will we see WinBooks and WinBooks Pro the size of trucks? I'd love these. Or hardeware-based iTunes on Windows? Sorry, we got it already

Funny to note, that from directly comparing ones sales figures with the ones of the smaller industry technology leader, you can get a proxy of how much better you are than the competitor. I'm so much more technically skilled than - say - my little cousin, so I MUST be the smartest technician around.

 

[queshy]

My bet is that SJ will have something to say about 10.6 at WWDC. It will be announced as "one more thing". 10.6 will include multitouch technology. Mark my words!

 

[DMann]

Slow Dissolve: Bill and Steve at the D Conference

New York Times
John Markoff

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/slow-fade-bill-and-steve-at-the-d-conference/index.html

The joint interview took a slightly odd turn when, halfway through, the Microsoft executives consented to give the audience of computer industry executives a “sneak peek” of the next version of Microsoft’s operating system, known as Windows 7.

Although Windows 7 is not scheduled to ship until the end of 2009, Microsoft has been creating some consternation in the computer industry by talking about the new program as an opportunity to address some of the shortcomings of Windows Vista. On stage Tuesday evening, neither Mr. Gates nor Mr. Ballmer was willing to concede any major shortcomings in Vista. Mr. Ballmer said the company has shipped 150 million copies of the program, but he did acknowledge that Microsoft might have done some things differently “in hindsight.”

He blamed compatibility issues that have led to criticism of the program on the company’s decision to focus on computer security problems.

During the brief onstage demo of Windows 7, a Microsoft software designer made the puzzling choice to unveil a new “multitouch” feature by working with a paint program, evoking memories of the original Macintosh paint program in 1984. She then used the touch-sensitive technology with a photo collection and a mapping program, evoking comparisons to both the iPhone and Google Maps, which already have similar capabilities. (You can watch a video of the multitouch feature on the Microsoft Vista blog.)

Another new feature appeared to be a circular pop-up menu that provided a “concierge” function.

Fencing over the issue of whether Apple will get to market first with desktop multi-touch features, Mr. Ballmer implied that the two companies don’t compete directly.

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

"Windows 7" sounds like old technology...

I don't see this as an actual product or an actual work in progress. Its mealy a a "show" to investors that Microsoft is keeping up. There is no end product from this demonstration. Its similar to what they have done before and makes good business sense.

 

[Eraserhead]

Dock=not Apple but some Kobulator

Actually its an improvement on the Windows taskbar.

Widgets=always around

These are what was copied from Konfabulator .

Spotlght=search developed by MSFT but intro'd 1st by mac.

Not true, both were announced within a month of each other.

Microsoft got its start marketing on an IBM text based OS that was forsaked by them and overtly copied by their EMPLOYEE Bill Gates. No conflict of interest there ?!!?

That isn't true. Microsoft were chosen by IBM for the IBM-PC as they wore suits. They didn't have an OS but they bought it from another company, not IBM.

except OpenGL, which only existed as an alternative to DirectX, i.e. a Microsoft product.

OpenGL is much older than DirectX and is still used widely in professional applications.

Yah because the iPhone == a good OS wide implementation of touch.

Well yes...

Again, your clinging to old problems. That article was wrote nearly a year ago, and I can't help but notice no major publication has that story. Also, Microsoft claimed all Xbox 360s sold in the 19 months before that had a defect that MAY lead to problems. Fast forward 11 months and 8 million more 360' sold, the Division has claimed a profit of $90 million for the last 2 quarters.

In the last quarter that is down to Mac Office 2008 being released as the Mac Business Unit is also in that division. Before that it was Halo 3.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

I get the point of the surface in a hotel/restaurant/casino and so on. But on my MBP? I didn't see any action in this video I wouldn't prefer a mouse over my fingers (except the piano thing, but I think nobody would seriously play on his display) Multitouch is a amazing technology but this was the microsoft way to implement it... no fantasy at all

 

[MacsAttack]

Except when 2010 rolls around if won't be ready, just like Vista.

No. it will be ready on time.

But MicroSoft will have stripped out all the cool stuff (like multitouch) that they said would be in it - just like they did with Vista. And the world will say "we would want to upgrade because???". Just like Vista.

 

[mhnajjar]

I have been using those features long time ago on my iPhone

 

[Gee4orce]

Microsoft's Top secret R&D lab revealed !

Hey, I've found the location of Microsoft's super-secret reasearch and development laboratory !

Here it is on Google Maps

 

[Syrus28]

there is nothing more to say: WOW! What an accomplishment! M$ inocrporated IPhone technology into a PC! What a big leap for mankind! They made somthing really big out of something really small! That's fantastic! Windows-User will love this, as they love everything that is big and heavy and brings a lot of cpu-power (just to keep their OS running).

So what's next? Will we see WinBooks and WinBooks Pro the size of trucks? I'd love these. Or hardeware-based iTunes on Windows? Sorry, we got it already

Funny to note, that from directly comparing ones sales figures with the ones of the smaller industry technology leader, you can get a proxy of how much better you are than the competitor. I'm so much more technically skilled than - say - my little cousin, so I MUST be the smartest technician around.

No. Your the one making it big. Microsoft showed it off as a "small piece" of Windows 7, not "the next great innovation of technology".

Again, Microsoft only quoted sales figures after the interviewer asked if they were worried about Apple. I don't see the gloating your trying to pretend they did.

 

[infowarfare]

What ideas are you talking about? Who are they trying to catch up to? It seems people are just saying things they see other people say.

Sorry if I come off a little hostile...

I guess you missed my earlier post:

Im glad you think Microsoft, the biggest tech company in existence, has never got anything right. How about Windows being the first major OS to add preemptive multitasking...

WRONG! Amiga OS was the first in 1985, then Mac OS9 and later Windows NT. Microsoft once again was way late to the game and implemented it horribly.

So in answer to your question, who are they (Microsoft) trying to catch up to? The answer is Apple. Not because we are just saying things that we "see other people say" but because these are the facts. This is the history. Plain and simple.

I suggest you do your research and learn your computing history.

 

[Syrus28]

Hey, I've found the location of Microsoft's super-secret reasearch and development laboratory !

Here it is on Google Maps

That little thing? Microsoft would AT LEAST need this... or this...