Windows Laptop Makers 'Worried' About New MacBook Air Impacting Sales

[Velli]

Does the average Windows laptop user even care about any of that? Doubtful. They care about price first and foremost. Their typical workload works fine on a mid range I5 Intel laptop. They need at most 2 hours of battery life before they plug back in.

They are not defined by their laptop choice. It is a tool to them.

Fact: The average laptop costs around 700 USD.

I agree that most users don’t actually care about quality. Apple only fights for customers that do. Which is why they will never reach the majority of market share. Apple is fine with this. The Wintel manufacturers however is not fine with handing over that market segment, because that is where they are making the most money. Hence this article.

There are many customers outthere who don’t care about the specs or even the speed. They just care about the overall experience. This is why my mother in law uses a ten year old Mac (bought new), for extremely light use. She would rather pay 2000 Euro for something that she can use, than 400 Euro for something that needs my help half the time. But she knows absolutely nothing about it, other than “it’s a Mac”. This is a big group of people that geeks tend to forget.

 

[Kalixt]

They will be fine, if you want to play games, you wont buy Macbook.

 

[Velli]

Does the typical consumer care about the speed of the M2 chip? I know people who frequent Macrumors obviously do, but I wasn't aware the typical person cared. As an Apple shareholder and user though, I'd love to see Mac market share grow.

No. Again, the “typical consumer” care about price. The typical “quality concerned” customer cares about actual experience, not about benchmarks. They care about the “instant on” feature, touch-ID, integration with their iPhone etc. M2 facilitates that all this is a smooth experience, but most people don’t care why. Which is why most Windows geeks are so arrogant against people who just buy Macs because it’s a Mac, and then they trust what they get. In my book, they are the smart ones. Not the ones arguing that their computer has 17,82% higher CPU performance, so it must be better (that includes Mac users).

 

[Velli]

They will be fine, if you want to play games, you wont buy Macbook.

Gaming PC’s is only a subset of the PC market. Dell and Lenovo will most certainly not be “fine” if companies start using Macs as their Powerpoint delivery machines.

 

[Ulfric]

I don’t think this is the segment that worries the Wintel makers. They are worried about business users for whom “work” essentially equals “MS Office”. This is where the big numbers are, not in the creative space.

This being said, I think you have a too narrow mindset of what “creative space” is, if you see those products as mainstream.

On the contrary It's not me who have a narrow vision regarding creative space, but the guy I am replying to; According to whom Blender is nothing but an Open Source crap.

While clearly overlooking the fact the userbase of Blender & how they have democratized the CG & 3D industry to many individual creators. Also how many large corporations are donating insane money for its development.

Blender has 2-3 times more userbase than entire Adobe CC's market share.

Creative industry doesn't only consist of video editing, Graphic Design & Illustration. CG makes a large shar of creative industry.

 

[mi7chy]

The typical “quality concerned” customer cares about actual experience, not about benchmarks. They care about the “instant on” feature, touch-ID.

What are you droning on about? That's another broken feature.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-touch-id-wake-up-issue.2276820/

 

[threesixty360]

I think what’s really worrying OEM’s is not just M series chips, but rather that apple make them themselves. Not only do they produce these chips but they are also used in their mobile devices that sell far more units. So the economies of scale is huge here as the marginal cost of producing the chips get lower and lower as they sell more devices.

how do you OEM‘s compete with apple when they’re paying top dollar for the core part (intel cpu) and the OS from Microsoft? And even if they sell more laptops at the lower end the margins are ultra thin. They need those $1000+ sales to make the business make sense. And apple can easily eat away at that price point with a better branded, more efficient, faster and crucially, cheaper to make machine.

its Likely that intel (and maybe MS?) will increase their costs to OEM’s as inflation kicks in and they sell less units as ARM starts to take hold in the laptop market.
The numbers are not adding up for OEM’s.

in fact, apple have probably thrown them a life raft by pricing the air at $200 more. I think the psychological sub $999 would have been sudden death for OEM’s in that price range.

strangely the one thing that saves OEM’s is actually windows itself. And some people prefer and need it. But browser based software is blurring the lines between OS’s anyway. But, yeah, windows is literally the only thing keeping them afloat In that price range.

 

[ori69]

I've been waiting for the new MB AIR with M2, but after the unveiling of the MBP with M2 I have some concerns. MagSafe will free up one Thunderbolt 3 port, but if Apple doesn't use active cooling, it will soft-boil after all.

 

[MacHiavelli]

MBA M2 embargo ends 14 July...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544383196363718656

 

[rp2011]

They do not need to worry about the M2 MacBook Air. They need to worry about the cheaper M1 MacBook Air.

The current base M2's are by all accounts a major dud. Especially at that coveted $1000. base price with that slower SSD and the throttling from overheating in a fanless enclosure.

Anyone looking to buy a laptop at that $1000 price point should forget about the base M2 MacBook Air and get a M1 MacBook Air instead.
And if you need need more power there is the base 14" M1 MacBook Pro, or wait for the base M2 14" MacBook Pro,

But the base M2 MacBook Air and and the base 13" MacBook Pro are a hard pass, it's a hard DO NOT BUY.

 

[GalileoSeven]

MBA M2 embargo ends 14 July...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544383196363718656

Would've been better if that would've been this week (before the preorders opened up)

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

I've been waiting for the new MB AIR with M2, but after the unveiling of the MBP with M2 I have some concerns. MagSafe will free up one Thunderbolt 3 port, but if Apple doesn't use active cooling, it will soft-boil after all.

Hear me out; I was a big backer of the last MBA w/Intel chip which supposedly had heat issues and I can honestly say after owning Intel and M-series MBA's the user base rarely hits those temps. Does it suck or mean Apple is short changing its customers? That's for you to decide but the people who buy MBA models and use them as just basic laptops, which probably involves zero creative stuff, will most likely never encounter any long term heat issues or care about SSD speeds. The supposedly scorching Intel MBA was never hot for me since I didn't do anything super intense.

I am literally that person who has a current gen MBP 16" because I like the screen size, build quality, near silent operation, decent display, and versatility if I were to ever need it at work or home BUT I do zero creative work so I essentially own a Ferrari for just going to the grocery store. MBA is supposed to be the lightest jack of all trades/master of none laptop NOT an 8K editing workhorse and I think people forget this. If you were waiting for a new MBA and already know it doesn't have active cooling then why do you have concerns now? Because a YouTuber self admittedly performed a benchmark that the machine was not designed for? If you were going to buy a MBA for 8K you already messed up.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

They do not need to worry about the M2 MacBook Air. They need to worry about the cheaper M1 MacBook Air.

The current base M2's are by all accounts a major dud. Especially at that coveted $1000. base price with that slower SSD and the throttling from overheating in a fanless enclosure.

Anyone looking to buy a laptop at that $1000 price point should forget about the base M2 MacBook Air and get a M1 MacBook Air instead. And if you need need more power there is the base 14" M1 MacBook Pro, or wait for the base M2 14" MacBook Pro,

But the base M2 MacBook Air and and the base 13" MacBook Pro are a hard pass, it's a hard DO NOT BUY.

Exactly, if you compare the specs of the M1 vs M2 MBA the only noticeable differences are magsafe, "better" camera, and 10% performance increase. Everything else is debatable such as the design (I prefer the wedge), cameras are both terrible, battery life is the same, screen is .3" bigger, and the weight is almost identical. Nothing that makes the MBA a great machine has been improved (e.g. weight, battery life) so why pay another $200 when you'll be able to find M1 MBA at insane prices soon?

 

[Velli]

What are you droning on about? That's another broken feature.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-air-m1-touch-id-wake-up-issue.2276820/

Another person who confuses a bug he is having with generic user experience.

Or maybe you want to make the argument that Windows doesn't have bugs? If I start raving on about all the bugs I have on my work Lenovo, does that make my argument more credible? No.

But, I was missing a word in my reply, I meant to write "instand on, AND touch ID" - not to make it seem like the same thing.

 

[Velli]

I've been waiting for the new MB AIR with M2, but after the unveiling of the MBP with M2 I have some concerns. MagSafe will free up one Thunderbolt 3 port, but if Apple doesn't use active cooling, it will soft-boil after all.

M1 already runs without active cooling. What matters is the CPU temperature, not how the cooling is done. Most reports are that on the Pro the fan only ever starts up under extreme loads. The assumption is that because M2 runs at higher clock speeds you may see a bigger difference between fan and no fan, but so far that is speculation. And even if it does throttle, it should still be faster than an M1 at the same load.

 

[iBluetooth]

Does the average Windows laptop user even care about any of that? Doubtful. They care about price first and foremost. Their typical workload works fine on a mid range I5 Intel laptop. They need at most 2 hours of battery life before they plug back in.

They are not defined by their laptop choice. It is a tool to them.

That's exactly why the Windows laptops have been selling well. But now Apple is offering their "low end" computers at that price point, which makes the win laptops sellers worried.

 

[Velli]

I think what’s really worrying OEM’s is not just M series chips, but rather that apple make them themselves. Not only do they produce these chips but they are also used in their mobile devices that sell far more units. So the economies of scale is huge here as the marginal cost of producing the chips get lower and lower as they sell more devices.

how do you OEM‘s compete with apple when they’re paying top dollar for the core part (intel cpu) and the OS from Microsoft? And even if they sell more laptops at the lower end the margins are ultra thin. They need those $1000+ sales to make the business make sense. And apple can easily eat away at that price point with a better branded, more efficient, faster and crucially, cheaper to make machine.

its Likely that intel (and maybe MS?) will increase their costs to OEM’s as inflation kicks in and they sell less units as ARM starts to take hold in the laptop market.
The numbers are not adding up for OEM’s.

in fact, apple have probably thrown them a life raft by pricing the air at $200 more. I think the psychological sub $999 would have been sudden death for OEM’s in that price range.

strangely the one thing that saves OEM’s is actually windows itself. And some people prefer and need it. But browser based software is blurring the lines between OS’s anyway. But, yeah, windows is literally the only thing keeping them afloat In that price range.

Best answer I have seen yet.

Interestingly, for the reasons you state Apple is better suited now than ever to wipe out the PC market by churning out 500 USD laptops running macOS. They could easily do this if they wanted to*, and still deliver a decent (if not quite matching the current state) experience. But, they would make less money in the end due to cannibalization of the much more profitable current price category, which is why they won't do it. And I don't blame them. And as you said, the OEM's should be thanking the high heavens that Apple has this product strategy, otherwise they would be in some serious trouble. In a world where Macs had iPad like market share, and as a result most software was either same-day or Mac first, who in their right mind (excluding gamers) would buy a Windows PC? Existing market share is by and large Wintel's only serious advantage, outside of price.

*I know Apple has in the past stated that "they don't know how to compete in the low end". I consider that to be pure spin. If they can make a 329 USD iPad, they can make a 499 USD laptop. They just choose not to.

 

[Velli]

On the contrary It's not me who have a narrow vision regarding creative space, but the guy I am replying to; According to whom Blender is nothing but an Open Source crap.

While clearly overlooking the fact the userbase of Blender & how they have democratized the CG & 3D industry to many individual creators. Also how many large corporations are donating insane money for its development.

Blender has 2-3 times more userbase than entire Adobe CC's market share.

Creative industry doesn't only consist of video editing, Graphic Design & Illustration. CG makes a large shar of creative industry.

I don't work in that segment, but just googling to fact-check numbers, according to Blender.org there was an estimated 1-3 million users of Blender in 2019, whereas Adobe had 26 million paying CC subscribers at the end of 2021.

Also, though maybe not considered "the creative industry", I have seen very few people working in marketing using Windows PC's unless forced to do so by corporate IT. Those are quite significant numbers for Apple.

And I still think you are narrow minded. All of the areas you mention is what I would consider heavy use. I think the number of light users is much higher than you imagine. By my definition, a part-time youtuber is part of the "creative industry".

 

[threesixty360]

Exactly, if you compare the specs of the M1 vs M2 MBA the only noticeable differences are magsafe, "better" camera, and 10% performance increase. Everything else is debatable such as the design (I prefer the wedge), cameras are both terrible, battery life is the same, screen is .3" bigger, and the weight is almost identical. Nothing that makes the MBA a great machine has been improved (e.g. weight, battery life) so why pay another $200 when you'll be able to find M1 MBA at insane prices soon?

Best answer I have seen yet.

Interestingly, for the reasons you state Apple is better suited now than ever to wipe out the PC market by churning out 500 USD laptops running macOS. They could easily do this if they wanted to*, and still deliver a decent (if not quite matching the current state) experience. But, they would make less money in the end due to cannibalization of the much more profitable current price category, which is why they won't do it. And I don't blame them. And as you said, the OEM's should be thanking the high heavens that Apple has this product strategy, otherwise they would be in some serious trouble. In a world where Macs had iPad like market share, and as a result most software was either same-day or Mac first, who in their right mind (excluding gamers) would buy a Windows PC? Existing market share is by and large Wintel's only serious advantage, outside of price.

*I know Apple has in the past stated that "they don't know how to compete in the low end". I consider that to be pure spin. If they can make a 329 USD iPad, they can make a 499 USD laptop. They just choose not to.

I think Apple also understand pricing as a branding strategy. To be perceived the best you must charge the most in a lot of consumers eyes. They kind of work like a fashion label in many ways. (I know lots of posters on this site will love that comparison!).

So yes you are right, with Apple's vertical integration strategy in place they could easily produce 5-600 dollar Mac's and destroy OEM's overnight. The problem for Apple is in the long term devaluing the brand and subsequently removing the ability to sell higher price items at the same time. The same reason why Gucci sells $400 t-shirts and not $30 ones.

Their answer to the low cost strategy has been the iPad where they start at $300 or so but have no real competition. But if you notice that strategy has hurt them at the iPad Pro level where people attack the product for not being worth it or "pro". That happens precisely because the $300 version exists that isn't much different to $1000 one.

Pricing matters. Apple won't play that low cost game if they dont have to. Its why that even though they only have 20% of the mobile phone market they probably take 70% of the profits or something wild.

I think as a company they should be studied for the business strategy just as much as their design and engineering abilities. They are really quite remarkable.

 

[Velli]

Well you should take a more careful look at Windows laptops.
A few months ago I bought a Vivobook Pro 15. And the store from which I bough this laptop also had the base M1 Air(8Gb RAM, 256Gb storage) at the exact same price but the Vivobook has the following specs: a larger 15.6inch HDR OLED screen,Phantom validated(it covers 100% of P3 color space and amongst others Netflix movies look sublime) , 16GB RAM, 1Tb Nvme SSD which does 3000Mb read and write speeds(better than M2), an 8 core 5800H, it has multiple USB-A ports, USB-C and HDMI and last the most important thing a RTX 3050 with studio drives. The laptop can do gaming, it can do creative work no problem.

Sorry for replying to your posts in the wrong order, but: Anyone buying a computer arguing that it is powerful enough to both do gaming and creative work, is most likely buying it because they are blinded by kool spex, not because they bought the computer they actually need. Very few people use the same computer for both those things. What you don't seem to get is that for me, not having macOS is a dealbreaker. Would you by a laptop with half an hour battery life, if everything else was out of this world? Of course not. Would I buy (privately) a Windows PC even if everything else was out of this world? Of course not. There are no specs and no value for money, even free (I HAVE a free private computer - I could just use my work computer. Infinite value for money!) that can make me take that step back.

 

[Ulfric]

I don't work in that segment, but just googling to fact-check numbers, according to Blender.org there was an estimated 1-3 million users of Blender in 2019, whereas Adobe had 26 million paying CC subscribers at the end of 2021.

Also, though maybe not considered "the creative industry", I have seen very few people working in marketing using Windows PC's unless forced to do so by corporate IT. Those are quite significant numbers for Apple.

And I still think you are narrow minded. All of the areas you mention is what I would consider heavy use. I think the number of light users is much higher than you imagine. By my definition, a part-time youtuber is part of the "creative industry".

Blender saw 14 million download alone in 2020 with each release increasing 1.5 Million userbase. Blender operates in a quarterly manner so each release has 3 months gap between them.

After the end of 2020 Blender had 23.2 Million userbase.

That's only 2020 numbers, After that Blender 3.0 released on Dec 3, 21 Where Blender introduced one of its enticing feature that is Geometry Nodes. After which Blender picked up another new huge influx of users.

Many have shifted from Maya to Blender.

While right now according Adobe's own report Photoshop CC has 12.2 Million annual users.

Blender by the Numbers – 2020 — Blender

The recap of Blender's numbers for 2020.

www.blender.org

 

[ThunderSkunk]

[checks Wikipedia] Epcot opened on October 1, 1982, i.e., not quite 40 years ago.

[checks drivers license] and I’m only 45 years old! (((gasp)))
The horror…
The horror…
The horror…

 

[Gasu E.]

Last year, Intel ran ads promoting Windows PCs over Macs, and it even recruited former "I'm a Mac" actor Justin Long for the campaign.

What Intel failed to realize is that time has proven that John Hodgman is cooler than Justin Long.

 

[M3gatron]

Sorry for replying to your posts in the wrong order, but: Anyone buying a computer arguing that it is powerful enough to both do gaming and creative work, is most likely buying it because they are blinded by kool spex, not because they bought the computer they actually need.

Nonsense.
Your angle it's already obvious, you already stated you will defend your blind and rigid unrealistic views no matter what.
I wasn't blinded by anything, I choosed that laptop after I properly tested it in the store, after I put it next to the base M1 Air which had the same price, I choosed that Vivobook because in most ways its a better and more capable computer and I would choose it again after the experience of using it because it perfectly satisfies all my needs.
Why would the Air be the computer I needed? LoL

Very few people use the same computer for both those things.

Not true. A properly balanced computer can do both work and gaming no problem. This flexibility is important for many users actually, not everybody lives in the "Macs are not for gaming" land.

What you don't seem to get is that for me, not having macOS is a dealbreaker.

For most of the world it's not a deal breaker at all. Also I did not mention the OS because it wasn't the Nr. 1 factor for me. Until I reached the OS the Vivobook Pro 15 had enough hardware advantages to tip the balance in it's favor.

Would you by a laptop with half an hour battery life, if everything else was out of this world?

Yes, why not? If the balance is there in terms of pricing, performance and anything else I can consciously accept a shortcoming like that. It's not like Macbooks are perfect and don't have any shortcoming or disadvantages.

Of course not. Would I buy (privately) a Windows PC even if everything else was out of this world? Of course not. There are no specs and no value for money, even free (I HAVE a free private computer - I could just use my work computer. Infinite value for money!) that can make me take that step back.

Well thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[svish]

Apple has a great lineup of Macs. Competitors will definitely be worried.