Windows Laptop Makers 'Worried' About New MacBook Air Impacting Sales

[Coochie Boogs]

It gives off that vibe of sensationalism, but in my opinion, Apple makes the best hardware and software. I still have yet to find or use an OEM that is able to blend the look, design, feel, and synergy as well as Apple. Most of the time its people dont know any better, have a different need, or just cant afford. All good though!

 

[alpi123]

And they all should blame Intel for lack of innovation and optimization. If Intel acted earlier, this worrying wouldn't be necessary.

It's not just Intel. Look at the most popular Windows laptops. Ugly designs are still prevailing, with still lots of plastic elements, unreliable trackpads, worst speakers you've ever heard, bad hinges. Most of the manufacturers refuse to actually try to improve the details that make Macbooks much better, and stick with the same formula from 10 years ago.

 

[Danfango]

Which would you say is most tolerable? thinkpads? Need to replace something for my mom (70) and she doesn't want to learn macOS

Buy her an iPad. Seriously. I gave my 78 year old mother one and it's the only computer she can work.

 

[spiderman0616]

Nope. What runs in Parallels is ARM Windows, which is useless for professionals. All professional apps require Windows x86. UTM (QEMU) runs some form of emulation, but it is so sluggish that I would consider it non-working.

Ah - yes - sorry. You're right. And I've already run into roadblocks with it, since DirectX 11 is also not Parallels compatible.

Either way though--I don't think it's in question that Windows/x86 still needs to exist. I think what's in question is how many people that use it actually NEED it. Many of those people don't need Windows any more than they need macOS and could probably get by with an iPad. The customers Apple goes after with a machine like the M2 MacBook Air are the people who still work more comfortably on a laptop, but don't want to break the bank and either prefer the Mac already or want to switch away from Windows and need a cheap entry point. These are valuable users to the Microsoft ecosystem because they're the ones that keep buying PCs and then replacing them every 3 to 4 years when the OS becomes unusable or the hardware stops keeping up with the updates. They're even more valuable to Apple. Once they get reeled in on the MacBook Air, it opens the doors for more hardware sales.

I don't believe for a second though that Windows is any kind of on-par with macOS anymore. I'm leaving the "but it has bugs" discussion aside for now, as every version of every piece of software ever made has bugs, especially desktop OS software. What I'm actually referring to is the fact that the entire Apple ecosystem of hardware and software is built from either full blown macOS or little chunks of it that are needed for that specific device. Each piece is interoperable at least to some degree by each other piece. You benefit the most from having all the pieces at your disposal, but there is enough feature overlap where it's definitely not necessary.

Furthermore, I do have a Windows device in my house--my son's gaming PC. It's been on Windows 10 and 11 now and after using both, I still maintain that the last good version of Windows was 7. It was stable, sleek, and clean and didn't need reformatting nearly as often as some other versions of Windows I've used. I do use my son's computer here and there for access to Windows-only Steam games. The general Windows experience, for better or worse, has not changed. It's not pleasing to look at, not easy to use, and not reliable or stable. And there are still snippets of 30 year old UI in there as well.

 

[DocMitchell]

They should be worried. But as long as laptops and desktops for gaming are considered niche by apple, intel and windows will be fine.

 

[MilesAhead]

What’s different now than the past 10 years that makes them worry more?

Power to battery life ratio. Windows laptops that have any kind of graphics or processing power run dry fast. I have a gaming laptop, only of modest power, and you can pretty much watch the battery indicator go down under any kind of load. MacBooks run all day

 

[DanVM]

It's not just Intel. Look at the most popular Windows laptops. Ugly designs are still prevailing, with still lots of plastic elements, unreliable trackpads, worst speakers you've ever heard, bad hinges. Most of the manufacturers refuse to actually try to improve the details that make Macbooks much better, and stick with the same formula from 10 years ago.

For some reason you focus on the ugly, cheap notebooks and ignore the high end models. For example, some of my customers have ThinkPads, and the quality of construction of the high end models excellent. For the example, the X1 Carbon and X1 Nano are built in with carbon fiber and magnesium. They also have an excellent keyboard, that it's spill resistant. Maybe you need to expand a little more than the "most popular Windows laptops" and you'll find very nice devices.

 

[ponzicoinbro]

They should all be worried about Apple. Hopefully the MacBook Air with M2 chip will not have same SSD reduced speed "feature" which Max Tech discovered the base model 13" MacBook Pro M2 has. Apple needs good press for all M2 Mac models, and Apple should not provide a reason for the tech press to bad mouth them, by using a downgraded, slower SSD chip design in their base M2 models.

Would not matter.

There is nothing you can do in real world on a MacBook Air that would need 7GB/s drive speed.

It’s an Air not an actual workstation.

If you did try to hit it constantly with multi gigabyte writes the CPU would throttle with that kind of data.

So in an Air it doesn’t matter if the read/write speed is 3GB/s, 5GB/s, 7GB/s. The real world performance in apps typically used on an Air will not be affected.

 

[DanVM]

Ah - yes - sorry. You're right. And I've already run into roadblocks with it, since DirectX 11 is also not Parallels compatible.

Either way though--I don't think it's in question that Windows/x86 still needs to exist. I think what's in question is how many people that use it actually NEED it. Many of those people don't need Windows any more than they need macOS and could probably get by with an iPad. The customers Apple goes after with a machine like the M2 MacBook Air are the people who still work more comfortably on a laptop, but don't want to break the bank and either prefer the Mac already or want to switch away from Windows and need a cheap entry point. These are valuable users to the Microsoft ecosystem because they're the ones that keep buying PCs and then replacing them every 3 to 4 years when the OS becomes unusable or the hardware stops keeping up with the updates. They're even more valuable to Apple. Once they get reeled in on the MacBook Air, it opens the doors for more hardware sales.

I don't believe for a second though that Windows is any kind of on-par with macOS anymore. I'm leaving the "but it has bugs" discussion aside for now, as every version of every piece of software ever made has bugs, especially desktop OS software. What I'm actually referring to is the fact that the entire Apple ecosystem of hardware and software is built from either full blown macOS or little chunks of it that are needed for that specific device. Each piece is interoperable at least to some degree by each other piece. You benefit the most from having all the pieces at your disposal, but there is enough feature overlap where it's definitely not necessary.

Furthermore, I do have a Windows device in my house--my son's gaming PC. It's been on Windows 10 and 11 now and after using both, I still maintain that the last good version of Windows was 7. It was stable, sleek, and clean and didn't need reformatting nearly as often as some other versions of Windows I've used. I do use my son's computer here and there for access to Windows-only Steam games. The general Windows experience, for better or worse, has not changed. It's not pleasing to look at, not easy to use, and not reliable or stable. And there are still snippets of 30 year old UI in there as well.

IMO, both Windows and macOS have their good and bad things. As you mention, the integration between Apple and their devices is excellent. But I can said the same of MS and their integration with the business / enterprise ecosystems.

Regarding the Windows experience you mention, for me it's very similar to my Mac. Personally I don't see any beauty neither in macOS or Windows. Finder have some advantages over Explorer, while the Task Bar have some advantages over the Dock. Also I find that Windows has a better window management. macOS integrate better with Apple devices, while Windows integrate better with MS services and their enterprise / business ecosystem. And I find both very stable. Who's the winner? That depends in what you need and what you like. But your preference doesn't makes the other option a bad one.

 

[bigboy29]

For some reason you focus on the ugly, cheap notebooks and ignore the high end models. For example, some of my customers have ThinkPads, and the quality of construction of the high end models excellent. For the example, the X1 Carbon and X1 Nano are built in with carbon fiber and magnesium. They also have an excellent keyboard, that it's spill resistant. Maybe you need to expand a little more than the "most popular Windows laptops" and you'll find very nice devices.

I agree with this 100%. When comparing to Apple hardware, I'd say look at Lenovo, Asus and Microsoft hardware as generally speaking well executed and attractive options, how PC ultrabook should be.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

What’s different now than the past 10 years that makes them worry more?

Now Apple has control over their own SoC whereas before everyone was using the same CPU with Apple even being at a performance disadvantage because of Intel CPUs’ lackluster performance in a thin profile (as was seen in the Core M 12” MB or the i9 MBP). Apple silicon is also enabling devices that are thinner and lighter, have great performance, and have battery life, which is hard to match without sacrificing one or another in the Wintel world.

 

[macfacts]

You also have to add in all the software licenses for mac versions.

 

[MacHiavelli]

In the offline world, I’m hearing a lot of pushback towards the M2 Airs because of the pricing.

Adding €460 to the price just to get 16 / 512 is seemingly putting people off, with most thinking that 8 / 256 are insufficient for modern computers.

Perhaps that will change when the machines are released. but €1,979 for a ‘base’ model with a reasonable amount of RAM and drive space is a heck of a lot to pay.

Nice product. Not sure if it will fly in the current financial climate.

 

[Nick_P]

For the past 10 years, the number of Macs in public places I've personally seen with my own eyes is about 90% Macs and 10% PC. In the workplace, its been about 99% Macs and 1% PC. In the past 3 years, I've seen a workplace shift to about 90% PC and 10% Mac.

I think everyone at home buying iPhones and Macs is now also starting to influence buying decisions at the dayjob.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Why are people bad mouthing Windows like there is some mass migration about to happen? Last I checked in InTune, there are 400,000 Windows clients across the estate, 17,000 iOS devices and 300 Macs. Windows is here to stay, but Mac is here to stay too.

 

[fel10]

Isn’t that the guy from the Apple VS Pc commercials from back in the day?

 

[Seanm87]

In the offline world, I’m hearing a lot of pushback towards the M2 Airs because of the pricing.

Adding €460 to the price just to get 16 / 512 is seemingly putting people off, with most thinking that 8 / 256 are insufficient for modern computers.

Perhaps that will change when the machines are released. but €1,979 for a ‘base’ model with a reasonable amount of RAM and drive space is a heck of a lot to pay.

Nice product. Not sure if it will fly in the current financial climate.

These will sell like hot cakes. Most people will get the base model and be fine with it.

 

[Chloros]

Fanboys unite!

 

[gund1234]

And they all should blame Intel for lack of innovation and optimization. If Intel acted earlier, this worrying wouldn't be necessary.

there is more to this than just Intel. Apple has the advantage of designing CPU/GPU/SOC and software. others dont have that luxury, Intel would need support from Linux, Microsoft. Windows could easily work with Qualcom to design ARM chip for windows and update Windows to work with that SOC.

 

[gund1234]

I don't get it. Apple's had laptops at this price point for more than a decade. This is nothing new. Where Apple could (but won't) make a dent in Wintel laptops is at the $500-$800 price point. I am guessing 80% of Windows laptops sell in this price range (at least at the consumer level). Also, I have to wonder how many tech industry laptop users are going to switching from Apple back to Wintel when they upgrade their current Apple/Intel laptops because they need the Intel processors to do some of their work.

PC manufacturers dont make much money by selling $500-800 laptops, profit margins are thin in the range ? may be they make more money on high end products ?

 

[Shirasaki]

What they worry is really about the high end market as that’s where higher margin goes. Since apple will never make sub $700 laptops and computers, lower end market is still dominated by PC and whatnot.

But, they definitely have something to worry about now. And it’s not just about sales.

X86 emulation on ARM when? (I mean Intel 12900K emulation on ARM with Full speed and sub 100W power consumption that can install x86 windows on it and run everything x86 without compromise)

 

[spiderman0616]

For the past 10 years, the number of Macs in public places I've personally seen with my own eyes is about 90% Macs and 10% PC. In the workplace, its been about 99% Macs and 1% PC. In the past 3 years, I've seen a workplace shift to about 90% PC and 10% Mac.

I think everyone at home buying iPhones and Macs is now also starting to influence buying decisions at the dayjob.

I see a good mix in the Chicago area. I always look around at coffee shops and airports to see what people are using and I don't think there's any arguing that Macs are more common these days than they used to be. Not long ago, you had to hunt around a little bit to spy a glowing Apple logo. Now I feel like I'm hunting more for a non-Mac or non-iPad.

And as long as we're talking anecdotal observations--I also feel like most of the PCs I see out there are either Surface or Lenovo. I don't see a whole lot of HP or anything else these days.

 

[SlaveToSwift]

What’s different now than the past 10 years that makes them worry more?

Ten years ago Apples market share was 5%, now it’s 10%.

Ten years ago they had access to the same CPUs as Apple.

Ten years ago PC unit sales were still growing, now they are shrinking.

Ten years ago Windows PC makers were able to make cheaper and faster laptops with similar battery life to MacBooks, their only disadvantage was build quality.

Now they can’t build laptops as fast as MacBooks unless they have half the battery life and cost as much or more. They can’t build laptops with the battery life of MacBooks unless they have half the performance.

Apple is starting to dominate the $1,000+ PC market the way the iPhone dominates the high end phone market.

 

[spiderman0616]

Why are people bad mouthing Windows like there is some mass migration about to happen? Last I checked in InTune, there are 400,000 Windows clients across the estate, 17,000 iOS devices and 300 Macs. Windows is here to stay, but Mac is here to stay too.

Correct. And I'm 99% sure I don't even WANT macOS to become the default. I'd rather let Windows carry the burden of having to cater to 40 years worth of legacy use cases and UI. I stick with macOS because it actually evolves with the times. We can debate bugs and stuff like that all day, but I will never agree with the people that say macOS is every bit as bloated and clunky as Windows. It's just not true in my opinion.

 

[MacHiavelli]

These will sell like hot cakes. Most people will get the base model and be fine with it.

Perhaps. I certainly thought that before the pricing was announced. Even the base model comes at a hefty price. People I know who said they would be M2 Air buyers now say they won’t be. Guess they might change their minds if the reviews are great. I know one person who since the M2s were announced has bought an M1 Air (price) and two who have bought Windows. Time knows the answer. I’m on the fence, having already decided to move on from Apple over the next couple of years. Working my way out of the Apple maze.