WINE for Intel Macs?

[bigandy]

Why in the HELL do I want to run Windows, ever, on a Mac? And why are too many idiots spending their time thinking of making it work? Jesus, what a waste of effort.
This is speculation, but I'd bet my house that the first REAL Vista virus is waiting for Vista's release. So why would I want to destroy my productivity so I can run that vertical marketing crap-application that's only available on a crap-PC? I'll buy the crap-box from evil Wal-Mart. When it dies, I toss it, much like a used Preperation-H towlette.

There is no "best" in the WIN world. It's an abomination. Vista on a Mac is like having a mole on your skin that might one day turn to cancer.

Keep your mole.

after the huge number of times that this question has been raised, and the huge amount of times it has been answered, i think people should be given a warning for petty bashing of windows. just because you (and maybe everyone else here) don't like it doesn't mean you have to say what you're saying. people are looking to this as a "best of both" because they NEED to run windows apps for WORK (i.e. they probably have NO CHOICE in the say of what platform is used) and this will allow them to keep using their beloved Macs without having to keep switching back to a PC every fifteen seconds.

i can't stand windows, but sometimes i have to use it, and i accept this, because there's no great way to run these required apps on a mac. i wish i could, however.

No offence, but take the temper elsewhere.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Why did this make front page? No big WINE breakthroughs have been made lately.

Hell, I've probably talked about WINE on intel macs at least 20 times in the forums over the past couple of months and no one seemed to care then.

 

[bigandy]

And what if the virus just SITS on the PC side, and is MADE to delete your documents folder on the Mac side... which doesn't have to deal with permissions since you are logged in as that user? I'm not sure how the actual beast will work, but scenarios like these can't be ruled out.
Warning: You will get what you deserve.
Promise: I won't say I told you so, but there will be zero sympathy for the trail-blazers.
None.

umm, ok. wine is a pretty niche system, and getting it running on MacOS isn't probably going to be for the beginners, so i doubt if anyone stupid enough to double click an .exe based virus will be using it. and why write a virus that'll work on wine/macos? viruses are written for the sole purpose of screwing up as many computers as possible (hence one of the many reasons you don't see mac or linux ones, mainly windows ones), which would make this a stupid exersize. and virus writers are very rarely stupid.

why write a virus for wine/macos that'll maybe screw up less than 5% of the computers you could screw up writing a plain windows .exe virus?

which brings me to think one thing... maybe it's a little stupid to think that this would happen? 🙄

 

[joebells]

The top 10 reasons why this is an ignorant troll:

10. WINE is not Windows, nor is it an emulator.
9. This version of WINE allows programs to run on OSX that otherwise could not, including games, productivity and office apps, developer apps, and *much* more.
8. Professionals don't have the luxury of choosing what environments they'll support when their clients and bosses are calling the shots.
7. Thinking Dumbass is not Thinking Differently.
6. The Mac is not just about Me, Myself, and I, and it's not just about you either.
5. Preparation-H, WINE, and Apple, unlike you, actually provide a public benefit.
4. Microsoft Vista will not be running on a Mac.
3. Blaming WINE for potentially destroying your productivity isn't likely unless you choose to install it on your PC.
2. WINE for OSX helps Apple and hurts Microsoft (a very little). This is bad?

...and the final reason this is an ignorant troll...

1. The Taliban called, and they want their simple-minded righteousness back.

Love and Kisses!

I almost guarantee that vista will be running on a mac in the future #4 is a pretty foolish comment.


Wine is a pretty nice program. I believe that there is a company that has produced a modified version of wine for playing directx games and I believe that it works fairly well. So that should be possible at some point if people care enough to do it.

 

[maxp1]

Regarding viruses again, I'm not germaphobe but purposfully introducing a disease vector onto your computer seems like a bad idea. Yeah, you think it's benign right now...

If I were going to do it I would at least create a special account that Windows applications would run in on WINE. Then you could at least limit the possible damage to the contents of that account. And easily wipe it if it got filled with ad ware.

 

[emaja]

WRONG! The one major reason Apples have been less vulnerable to viruses (definatley not immune) is because they used a RISC processor and the Apple OS and other programs use many instruction sets embedded into the processor. This has changed with the inferior x86 hardware.

I really don't care because now Apples are just IBM clones.

You really haven't bothered to read anything intelligent on this subject at all, have you? If you believe, and spread this FUD, then you are doing yourself and the community at large a disservice.

Read he rest of this thread before commenting further, as you have a lot to learn about the subject.

 

[bigandy]

A real risk...

If the Windows .exe/.dll/.etc run well on OSx86, many companies will consider this.

not really. wine won't be a native app, and probably always run under X11, which will never be as user friendly as required for the lowest common denominator. because of this i doubt that this would be a risk at all - just because wine exists for linux doesn't mean that developers creating linux and windows software have stopped producing said linux based versions, does it?

wine, i'm pretty sure, will always be a niche and not too completely simple to use system. it'll appeal to people wanting to get their hands a little dirty, but something like VPC will still have to be there to spoon feed the masses, like my parents, for example. they'd never touch anything X11 based. they took one look at openoffice for mac and bought ms office, just because it was easier to install.

 

[maxp1]

which brings me to think one thing... maybe it's a little stupid to think that this would happen? 🙄

Umm... there's a difference between caution and stupidity. One might say that it's stupid not to be cautious. 🙄 😀

 

[crees!]

I agree, why waste your time on anything Microsoft. How anybody can use that operating system and programs on that system is beyond me.

If you were a web developer you would understand why.

 

[fluidinclusion]

USB Peripherals

Hi... sorry for my ignorance. Does any body know if WINE will work with external peripherals connected through USB? I'm a science major and my university forces us to use a windows only data collection program that connects to an external interface through USB. Any idea if this will eventually work with WINE? This stupid program is all that's keeping me from fully switching over to macs... and oh how i'd love to trade this stupid windows laptop in for a nice new macbook pro. On a related note, does VPC allow you to use USB peripherals? I only ever tried VPC on my old emac, and was very disapointed by the emulated performance. This program is kind of a ram hog, and I can't risk having it crash (it crashes enough when running natively in windows) so I never even considered running it in VPC... but if it can run natively without emulation... well that'd just be great.

I don't know about WINE yet, but Virtual PC does support USB peripherals. I'd recommend that you look into that, although it isn't supported on the MacBook yet. When it is, you'll probably have better overall stability than with WINE (don't flame me please) because Virtual PC will at least be a "supported" program, instead of open source.

Can anyone reply to the question of whether WINE will support USB peripherals?

 

[lucas]

Wine has another use: It allows a developer to recompile a WIndows App on a UNIX platform without making much or any code change. THis allows developers to quickly move their code to UNIX based systems such Linux, Solaris or Mac OSX.
This might be of use to a game developer

Er.. No. No No No. wine has a lot of benefits but this is not one of them.

 

[bluebomberman]

wine, i'm pretty sure, will always be a niche and not too completely simple to use system. it'll appeal to people wanting to get their hands a little dirty, but something like VPC will still have to be there to spoon feed the masses, like my parents, for example. they'd never touch anything X11 based. they took one look at openoffice for mac and bought ms office, just because it was easier to install.

So I can forget about using WINE to turn my Mac into a PC gaming machine (unless I'm willing to pull my hair out)?

 

[DeathChill]

Sure about this?

Are the Mac-specific grfx cards in the Mac-Tels supported by DirectX using WINE?

I will also wonder that when/if Win XP/Vista gets booted natively on a Intel Mac, if grfx cards etc. will be supported.

Well, they aren't Mac-specific in the first place. They use standard PC (well, notebook) video cards. This means video cards for Mac's will get much cheaper. 🙂


Also, for the guy who says that the CPU has anything to do with virus immunity/security: you're an idiot.

 

[ericschmerick]

Your history of anti-Intel posts suggests that personal feelings may be clouding your view here 😀

Some facts you miss:

<snip>

* The reason there are zero OS X viruses is not the processor. It's the OS. Processors can and do have flaws, but they aren't "the one major reason" for viruses. The Windows OS is the culprit there--truly.

<snip>

Apple only makes "IBM clones" if you don't care about Mac OS X. But if you sit down at a new iMac all you use is Mac OS X. You can't even TELL what chip is inside, so it's not worth long-term emotional trauma about it. Look at at this way: change is scary, but it can also be exciting. The only thing that's changing for us Mac users is that our Macs will get faster, smaller, and quieter--and all of those things far sooner than could ever have happened with IBM.

The transition has its rough edges, and nothing can help that. But they are temporary, and they are well worth it. Apple's very good at managing big platform changes and keeping things running amazingly smoothly for us users in the process.

Extremely well put! I've read several of your posts in the recent past, and I commend you for your cogent arguments in favor of a sensible perspective over this transition.

I do not understand the irrational connection that people seem to draw between a processor that runs x86 instructions, and computer viruses, nearly all of which exploit a flaw of the host OS, not of the microarchitecture in use. The emotional overraction that many seem to have over the intel transition in general is so strange to me. It almost seems like it's bringing out the worst in some in the mac community.

I'm just excited to get a machine (MacBook) that will substantially outperform my current machine (PB 1.25), and am even more excited about what the future holds.

 

[joebells]

So I can forget about using WINE to turn my Mac into a PC gaming machine (unless I'm willing to pull my hair out)?

If Transgaming (cedega is just a modified wine I believe), or someone do the work of porting this then you could be playing pc games on the mac. Not quite sure how well it works but I believe that I read it works fairly well, or at least did last year when I read some about it.

 

[generik]

Because you yourself are an idiot who can't resist clicking on that EXE attachment in your email like a bug is drawn to a candle?

Jeez, there are so many good reasons why WINE is a good thing.

Why in the HELL do I want to run Windows, ever, on a Mac? And why are too many idiots spending their time thinking of making it work? Jesus, what a waste of effort.
This is speculation, but I'd bet my house that the first REAL Vista virus is waiting for Vista's release. So why would I want to destroy my productivity so I can run that vertical marketing crap-application that's only available on a crap-PC? I'll buy the crap-box from evil Wal-Mart. When it dies, I toss it, much like a used Preperation-H towlette.

There is no "best" in the WIN world. It's an abomination. Vista on a Mac is like having a mole on your skin that might one day turn to cancer.

Keep your mole.

 

[kretzy]

I think this is a good thing. I would much rather be able to run the 1 or 2 windows only apps, natively in OS X, rather than have to go through VPC which is so slow and clunky. As for viruses, I don't think they'll be a problem for most people as (hopefully) they won't just run any old .exe file they find lying around.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

I'm not trying to spread FUD here I'm trying to inject a word of caution. While it is neat and usefull that you can run .exe files, It would be unwise to not worry about viruses.

The article posted above does a rather lame attempt to run these viruses. If virus writes clued in a bit they might be able to easily re-write the virus to effect an OSX system. Nobody knows at this point. I don't think you can blanket say "Oh, this will never be a problem." So far we've been immune to viruses, but add another API, one that's known to be vulnerable, and who knows? There are a lot of virus writers out there.

I'd be VERY cautious about installing WINE on any computer of mine until more is known about virus susceptibility. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

By that logic why wouldn't they just write a virus for OSX?

If OS X becomes more popular some one will write a virus for it, I promise. You will not need to worry about if you are running VPC, WINE, dual booting or just running OS X. It will come eventually.

It is not impossible to write a virus for OS X, it is more difficult and would effect a smaller portion of the population so no one bothers!

 

[savar]

It should probably be pointed out that the Darwine project has had only a small amount of input in this release so far. Codeweavers have actually done about 80% of the work on getting WINE ported over so far.

Credit where credit is due, n' all that!

Why hasn't WINE been more interested in making this port? This would increase awareness of their application many times over. I suggested this as a Google SoC Project but got rejected. I get the feeling they're not so interested in WINE on OS X.

My concern is that when Vista comes out, there's going to be tooonns of new APIs and WINE will be way behind again, and we'll all be running old apps.

Still, the price is right.

 

[kingtj]

Mac Zealot alert!

Maybe YOU don't have a reason to run Windows, ever, on your Mac - but acting like your personal situation should apply to the rest of the Mac using world is total B.S.

For starters, some of us are trying to consolidate hardware. For far too long, I've owned at least 4 or 5 computers in my house. I had one system all configured special for doing music and MIDI work. (You can easily fill a whole hard drive with digital sample collections and multi-track recordings, and timing and MIDI latency are critical. Loading some other general purpose software on a box like this can screw up everything.) I've always had a laptop for when I need to take a computer with me. I've got a computer just for my kid, too. I have a dedicated "MythTV" box running Linux that just acts as my "Tivo on steroids" in my living room. And then, I have a "primary desktop PC" for everything else.

For the last couple years, a PowerMac G5 has been my "primary desktop PC", but there are a lot of things I can't do with it. Sure, I can live without some of them since they're rarely "necessary" -- but for example, I like playing Half Life 2 once in a while. Can't do it in OS X or even VirtualPC as it stands today. A new Intel-based Mac with an option to boot into Windows, however, would make it possible.

I've also run into quite a few limitations with my Powerbook laptop - all due to it not being able to run Windows natively. EG. Ever try finding good street mapping GPS software for one? DeLorme Street Atlas USA is considered one of the best products out there, but no Mac OS X version at all. They haven't even written a version for classic MacOS in years. And Microsoft never bothered to do a Mac version of their "Streets and Trips" software either. I've also got a device that lets you plug into the "OBDII" port on your car and reset "check engine" codes, run diagnostics on your vehicle, etc. Again, no Mac version of the software for it available.

Sure, viruses will come out for Vista in no time, just as they have for every other version of Windows and MS-DOS. But generally, these things don't just fly onto your computer at random and infect you. They're almost always due to users opening files downloaded from dubious sources on the net, opening suspect emails, or trying to use illegal file sharing software that installs more than they bargained for. By just booting into Windows when I need specific apps, and running OS X for everything else, I wouldn't expect to see any real issues from that front.

Why in the HELL do I want to run Windows, ever, on a Mac? And why are too many idiots spending their time thinking of making it work? Jesus, what a waste of effort.
This is speculation, but I'd bet my house that the first REAL Vista virus is waiting for Vista's release. So why would I want to destroy my productivity so I can run that vertical marketing crap-application that's only available on a crap-PC? I'll buy the crap-box from evil Wal-Mart. When it dies, I toss it, much like a used Preperation-H towlette.

There is no "best" in the WIN world. It's an abomination. Vista on a Mac is like having a mole on your skin that might one day turn to cancer.

Keep your mole.

 

[savar]

Er.. No. No No No. wine has a lot of benefits but this is not one of them.

I think he's referring to WineLib -- recompile your app and link against WineLib instead of the MS library. A nice feature for those who use it.

 

[savar]

How?

WINE reproduces most of the Windows API, including file system calls. I imagine the implementation is to map those calls to their Unix counterparts. So if a Windows trojan horse simply iterates over files in the home directory and tries to remove them, WINE will call the Unix file system APIs to do the same thing. So a user could easily run a trojan horse which deletes most of his home directory. Of course, Unix permissions prevent an app from deleting system files or other users' files. But AFAIK, WINE doesn't run in a sandbox or anything, so it can touch your files just like any other application.

I don't see viruses being a huge problem here. The vulnerability isn't in the API, its in MS's lazy-ass implementation -- constantly using string methods which don't do boundary checking, for instance. I would have to hope that because WINE was written more recently and is open source, they wouldn't have done dumb things like that.

 

[Austin.xstone]

Sounds like i will only need an apple - when the new MacBooks come out!

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Sure about this?

Are the Mac-specific grfx cards in the Mac-Tels supported by DirectX using WINE?

I will also wonder that when/if Win XP/Vista gets booted natively on a Intel Mac, if grfx cards etc. will be supported.

Well you can get another little application of Linux called WINE X it's DirectX compatible version of WINE however you do have to pay for it, and yes I would pay for it the moment it is released for Mac OSX.
http://www.transgaming.com/

WINE running on an Intel Mac is a great start, but I'll be happier when some great company ports WINE X then Mac OSX will be interesting, running Windows Software without having to have a Windows Box or a copy of VPC.

As for all the talk about viruses just read http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/25/1430222 seriously the guy knows what he is talking about.

 

[Les Kern]

How?

How the heck do I know? Will Vista run concurrently? If so, and virus is on it, perhaps it could be written thusly. You're logged in, so your docs are vulnerable.
I KNOW it's speculation, but why does it need to BE? See my earlier post on the stupidity of it all.