Wired: iPhones Send Your Location Data to Apple Every 12 Hours

[gdjsnyder]

I know some people care about this 'issue', so I am not going to argue about it with anyone. However, my opinion is that this isn't really a big deal, really. Anyone who thinks that Apple is the only company that does this sort of thing is lacking in knowledge and understanding. You know all those social network sites that ask if you want to share your location? Even if you say no, they know where you are when you use their site. It's most likely stored in their internal databases. They won't be sharing it with anybody (because you said no), but trust me, they have your location data.

Cell phone companies also know, whenever you're using a cell phone, they know exactly where you are connecting from, at what time you're using data. where you're using it, how you're using it, etc. This is not a new concept, your location is pretty much known at all times, whenever you're using an electronic device, not just an Apple product.

Is Apple justified to collect this information? I don't know. I really don't care about it. I'm not going to stop using my iPhone or iPad at all. For all the people who are saying police can get the records and make an accusation against you...as long as you don't commit the crime, is that really a worry?

I really do feel this is being blown out of proportion. And again, it's most likely because it's Apple, and the media feels a need to find flaws with them more than anybody. Why isn't Google being investigated? Android probably does the same exact thing. Actually, I know that they do. Whenever I use Google search, I deny the allowance of my location being used, yet I get ads for local restaurants and such, so Google knows where I am, but I didn't give them permission to know where I am.

I may be wrong, and I am going out on a limb here guessing, but read Apple's TOS for the iPhone or iPad. I'm sure there is a section about GPS, and if they knew they were collecting data without permission, I am sure there is a section in the TOS allowing them to do so, and by using the device, you agreed to the TOS.

 

[chiefpavvy]

Why isn't Google being investigated? Android probably does the same exact thing. Actually, I know that they do. Whenever I use Google search, I deny the allowance of my location being used, yet I get ads for local restaurants and such, so Google knows where I am, but I didn't give them permission to know where I am.

Good point, and I've had the same experience many times. On different devices and different networks. Even though "Location: Off" is clearly shown and specified I'm still served obviously relevant advertising to my location.

 

[EddyP]

A lot of people are confused, because...

There are apparently TWO different things going on:

1) The "newly" discovered database, which is simply a receive-only cache of responses to location data requests using cell and hotspot info.

In other words, every time your phone needs a quick location using cell or hotspot, it looks first in this cache to keep it from having to use up battery and network resources asking Apple for their location over and over again. (Think about the cell tower and hotspot at your home, for instance.)

This database, while not totally harmless, is an innocent developer mistake. (It should've been encrypted or truncated.) It is NOT sent to Apple.

2) The known twice or more daily transmission of discovered cells and hotspots when the phone uses internal GPS to resolve a location request. This is used to build up Apple's database used above in (1) when GPS is not available or necessary. Reportedly this is done over WiFi to conserve data costs.

Thank you for explaining it so succinctly. No BS. No privacy discussion. Just the facts. Thank you.

 

[cas85]

There is a difference between quoting something and it being fact. Just because I quote something from Apple doesn't mean I'm a gullible sheep and believe everything they say. Remember how Steve Jobs and Apple claim that there is no antennae issue? Don't believe everything you hear, question it. This isn't ScientologyRumors.





Oh, why don't we just give our location history to every freaking company then for them to log for all time? You make many logical fallacies in your arguments. Apple is an ad company. They don't use the location data for your altruistic benefits as you so claim to give us better GPS. They use it to sell ads and sell your information.

you should just go ahead and fashion your aluminum foil cap, b/c you are clearly not going to accept that this is done for a legit reason. in fact, someone else already posted the 2 points causing confusion in this thread. you should probably read it.

please provide proof that Apple is selling yours and my location...i would love to se it. but i'm not gonna wait around for it.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

you should just go ahead and fashion your aluminum foil cap, b/c you are clearly not going to accept that this is done for a legit reason. in fact, someone else already posted the 2 points causing confusion in this thread. you should probably read it.

please provide proof that Apple is selling yours and my location...i would love to se it. but i'm not gonna wait around for it.

What parts of iAds don't you want to accept? Do you think iAds just serve you random ads? They don't. They use location and likely what the iPhone sends to Apple to track and target you.

Oh, and let's see what Apple has in store for all our location histories:

http://ca.gizmodo.com/5795561/apple-patent-reveals-extensive-stalking-plans

The spying iPhone is no accident. A recent Apple patent application reveals that the location-tracking dossiers accumulated in iPhones are to be used in apps from Apple and any number of other companies.
Ronald Huang, an Apple senior engineering manager, filed patent application 12/553,554 last month, "Location histories for location aware devices," which explains how Apple can amass and use location data in the very ways Apple critics fear. The patent application, for example, envisions a searchable map plotting the owner's location history; tying location to financial transactions; transmitting location data over the internet to remote servers; and many other uses.

......

Apple also says several time that the collected data will be transmitted to remote servers, including in section 0018, which discusses a "remote reference database," and section 0035, which discusses sharing location data with other wireless devices "or with a remote service (e.g., navigation services)." Apple has said before that such data is only shared with express user consent, although it clearly caught customers by surprise with the compilation of the iPhone location database.

So here is a fresh patent showing plainly that Apple wants to log every move we make and send it to their servers so they can track every single thing you do. I am right.

 

[spacepower7]

What parts of iAds don't you want to accept? Do you think iAds just serve you random ads? They don't. They use location and likely what the iPhone sends to Apple to track and target you.

Oh, and let's see what Apple has in store for all our location histories:

http://ca.gizmodo.com/5795561/apple-patent-reveals-extensive-stalking-plans



So here is a fresh patent showing plainly that Apple wants to log every move we make and send it to their servers so they can track every single thing you do. I am right.

iAD location info is opt-in in iOS, not opt-out like in Android


Marco from Tumblr and Instapaper fame has a good analysis of this issue.

http://www.marco.org/2011/04/25/privacy-and-incentives

Read that then post back

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

iAD location info is opt-in in iOS, not opt-out like in Android


Marco from Tumblr and Instapaper fame has a good analysis of this issue.

http://www.marco.org/2011/04/25/privacy-and-incentives

Read that then post back

Where does Apple say that iAd location tracking is "opt-in" in iOS? iAd doesn't have any preference settings. I think you are messed up.

Also, that link doesn't provide anything other than pure speculation that Apple doesn't track you simply because they sell you your iPhone. That article is pure logical fallacy.

 

[spacepower7]

Where does Apple say that iAd location tracking is "opt-in" in iOS? iAd doesn't have any preference settings. I think you are messed up.

Also, that link doesn't provide anything other than pure speculation that Apple doesn't track you simply because they sell you your iPhone. That article is pure logical fallacy.

I think you are the one lacking logic?

People still read the Giz? Only angry fandroids that then come to macrumors to start fight.

You don't seem to be a rational person and are obviously filled with rage towards Apple that you blindly believe anything anti-apple.

I'll leave you and your anger in this thread. Nice not knowing you.

Stop feeding the Troll!

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

I think you are the one lacking logic?

People still read the Giz? Only angry fandroids that then come to macrumors to start fight.

You don't seem to be a rational person and are obviously filled with rage towards Apple that you blindly believe anything anti-apple.

I'll leave you and your anger in this thread. Nice not knowing you.

Stop feeding the Troll!

Oh, so because I ask you to back up your claim that location tracking in iAds is "opt-in", you now call me a "fandroid". Yeah, we can all smell what's going on here.

 

[TonyC28]

I'm bored so I'll throw in my opinion of a few comments I've seen here.

First, if Apple would never use the info and the info is useless, then why do it?

Second, while tons of people check in on Facebook and other services like that, that is their choice. It's not being done secretly (until now) by their cell phone.

Third, yes this is a good tool for law enforcement. But I think it's safe to say the average iPhone user isn't a criminal so the usefulness of this tool by law enforcement is very minimal.

Fourth, while the effect is minimal, how about allowing me to turn this useless "feature" off so I can get a tiny bit more battery life out of my phone.

It really doesn't matter to me personally that my phone does this, but I can see the point of the people who are concerned. Apple apologists please ignore this next sentence.....I think Apple owes us an explanation of why this was happening and maybe a future update with an option to turn this off. (I am actually picturing the Apple doesn't owe anyone anything crowd drooling over that last sentence and preparing a response)

 

[cas85]

What parts of iAds don't you want to accept? Do you think iAds just serve you random ads? They don't. They use location and likely what the iPhone sends to Apple to track and target you.

Oh, and let's see what Apple has in store for all our location histories:

http://ca.gizmodo.com/5795561/apple-patent-reveals-extensive-stalking-plans



So here is a fresh patent showing plainly that Apple wants to log every move we make and send it to their servers so they can track every single thing you do. I am right.

we are talking about two totally different things...you act like iAds is the first geo based ad program ever. try opening up your browser and not seeing a "meet hot singles in [insert your city]". this has been happening on the internet for years so don't know why you're throwing such a fit about it now.

if you don't like it, throw away all your electronic devices. i would be willing to bet that we all agreed to some EULA that covered all this crap anyways.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

we are talking about two totally different things...you act like iAds is the first geo based ad program ever. try opening up your browser and not seeing a "meet hot singles in [insert your city]". this has been happening on the internet for years so don't know why you're throwing such a fit about it now.

if you don't like it, throw away all your electronic devices. i would be willing to bet that we all agreed to some EULA that covered all this crap anyways.

Unlike regular internet ads, Apple is tracking your location 24/7 and sending the info to it's servers every 12 hours. You don't even need to view an ad with the iPhone since it persistently tracks you without permission and phones home to boot. If this was Microsoft that did this, all you guys would have your panties some place where the sun doesn't shine. And just where in the EULA does it say that I give permission to Apple to track me 24/7, phone home with the info, log it for all time, and do with it as it pleases with no consent?

 

[Intell]

What parts of iAds don't you want to accept? Do you think iAds just serve you random ads? They don't. They use location and likely what the iPhone sends to Apple to track and target you.

While Apple may use your location to server you iAds. You can opt out of the location tracking. Just go to http://oo.apple.com/ on your iDevice. Source: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4228

Personal note: I've yet to see an iAd make a reference to my location. I've seen AdMob and some Google kind make lots of references though.

 

[spacepower7]

Oh, so because I ask you to back up your claim that location tracking in iAds is "opt-in", you now call me a "fandroid". Yeah, we can all smell what's going on here.

Every app that has iAds asks if you want to share your location info the first time you launch the app containing the iAd. Obviously, you don't own any iOS devices or you would have seen this many times. If you opt-in you can always opt-out at any time via the settings app which controls all location services to individual apps.

If you really want to learn about this instead of ranting, check out:

https://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/...es-with-the-latest-iphone-tracking-discovery/

This is a post from the guy who discovered the issue almost a year ago. Since then, he has published his findings in a forensics textbook in 2010, published a paper to the IEEE, and gave a speech about it in January 2011.

I'd believe this Alex who has been studying this for a year, before I would believe a wired article that barely did any research of their own, and in limited time period.

If you keep an open mind you might learn something, both from business and technical perspectives.

 

[spacepower7]

Another update by Alex

http://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/3-new-thoughts-on-mobile-location/

We live in interesting times

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

Every app that has iAds asks if you want to share your location info the first time you launch the app containing the iAd. Obviously, you don't own any iOS devices or you would have seen this many times. If you opt-in you can always opt-out at any time via the settings app which controls all location services to individual apps.

If you really want to learn about this instead of ranting, check out:

https://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/...es-with-the-latest-iphone-tracking-discovery/

This is a post from the guy who discovered the issue almost a year ago. Since then, he has published his findings in a forensics textbook in 2010, published a paper to the IEEE, and gave a speech about it in January 2011.

I'd believe this Alex who has been studying this for a year, before I would believe a wired article that barely did any research of their own, and in limited time period.

If you keep an open mind you might learn something, both from business and technical perspectives.

You plainly don't know how iAds work if you think iAds is affected by the Locations panel in Settings. Apple made iAds an integrated part of iOS4 and it doesn't respect Location settings as indicated in the link: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4228 where clearly you see the iAd location tracking is opt-out, not opt-in like you suggest.

And you should really think before you believe everything someone posts in their blog. That Alex guy says he analyzed the network traffic coming from the iOS devices and says he didn't see the location info being sent. Well duh! You can't sniff the contents of encrypted network traffic! That's just idiotic on a fundamental level. If Apple was sending all this sensitive info unencrypted, then there would be double hell to pay.

Another update by Alex

http://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/3-new-thoughts-on-mobile-location/

We live in interesting times

And now you've just made yourself look foolish. Read what this Alex guy posted, he admits to making a faulty analysis of the location data being sent. Ergo, I am right yet again:

Apple previously used Skyhook Wireless for their determining the location of iPhones, but announced in 2010 they would be moving to their own location services starting in April of 2010 with iOS 3.2. This would confirm why there is data transmitted to Apple every 12 hours as reported by F-Secure yesterday. This explains my failure to see this unsolicited location data. My network traffic analysis of iOS devices has never spanned large time intervals.

 

[Brutos]

Why does it matter ? Apple know where i live anyway, I gave them my address details when I created a itunes account.

A complete overreaction by some people.

 

[Stealthipad]

A lot of people are confused, because...

There are apparently TWO different things going on:

1) The "newly" discovered database, which is simply a receive-only cache of responses to location data requests using cell and hotspot info.

In other words, every time your phone needs a quick location using cell or hotspot, it looks first in this cache to keep it from having to use up battery and network resources asking Apple for their location over and over again. (Think about the cell tower and hotspot at your home, for instance.)

This database, while not totally harmless, is an innocent developer mistake. (It should've been encrypted or truncated.) It is NOT sent to Apple.

2) The known twice or more daily transmission of discovered cells and hotspots when the phone uses internal GPS to resolve a location request. This is used to build up Apple's database used above in (1) when GPS is not available or necessary. Reportedly this is done over WiFi to conserve data costs.

I say this is BS. If apple has this information, they use it to profit. Do not be a sheep!

 

[MattBP]

http://geothought.blogspot.com/2011/04/scoop-apples-iphone-is-not-storing-your.html

read this article, will change your mind on a lot of this.

 

[VulchR]

I think if everyone takes a deep breath, steps back from bickering and looks at this calmly several points are evident:

1. Apple claimed in previous literature that users could turn off location services. This is apparently not true in this case, so there is a issue of informed consent. Many users would freely give this consent without even knowing what the data is being used for. Others, like me, simply want to know how the data is used. However, some people might simply object and there should be a mechanism to accommodate those people simply because they have a right to their privacy. It seems like this is a matter of law in some countries in which the iPhone is sold, so it cannot be simply dismissed.
2. It appears the database is protected from direct access by 3rd party apps on the iPhone. However, it is not encrypted when it is backed up via iTunes unless the user encrypts the backup. Indeed, why does iTunes allow unencrypted iPhone backups and why isn't all information on the iPhone encrypted? Do we know the database is safe on a JB'ed iPhone?
3. The data collected, when considered on a point-by-point basis, gives very low accuracy about one's location. However, we have not had a confirmation that the data do not contain enough information to accurately infer one's location.
4. Any issue arising from the database can be easily fixed. I bet a dime against a doughnut that all of this will be explained by Apple and sorted within a month.

 

[lionqueen]

Is Apple justified to collect this information? I don't know. I really don't care about it. I'm not going to stop using my iPhone or iPad at all. For all the people who are saying police can get the records and make an accusation against you...as long as you don't commit the crime, is that really a worry?

I agree with most of what you said (the bits i didn't post), but this part i have to disagree with. You'd think that that's the case - that if you didn't do the crime you've got nothing to worry about - but that's just not always the case. People HAVE been wrongly convicted. A little story to make my point: let's say, havving always gone to work for the three years i worked at a local health club, one day i just felt like crap and called in sick. Later that day, bored, i decided to dye my hair. My roommate was gone all day. A few days later the police came to my work and asked me to come downtown and talk to them, which i did. Turns out there had been a murder the day i took off work, and a witness reported seeing someone of my description in the building. The police were very interested in why i chose THAT day to stay home, and to dye my hair. I had no alibi- my roommate was out. Luckily they ended up finding the real killer, but imagine they didn't. Now imagine that in addition to the above, Id decided to take a drive, and stopped off at a store- next to the building where the man was killed. You know gps isn't always accurate- it often shows you a few hundred feet away. People have been convicted and sent to prison for less.

Do you see where i'm going with this? Iknow it may sound farfetched, but in this day and age most of us bring our cell everywhere. Sure, location data might clear some people who are innocent, and convict some of the guilty. But it can also be used as circumstantial evidence against you, regardless of whether you're guilty or not. Not to mention the possibility that a third party could get their hands on it. What about an abused Woman trying to leave her abuser? He could use the info to track her down.

While i'm not saying the sky is falling here, i AM saying that this info is sensitive, and can be used to hurt people. Asking questions about it is a smart thing to do.

 

[aristobrat]

If this was Microsoft that did this, all you guys would have your panties some place where the sun doesn't shine.

Interestingly enough, regarding Windows Phone 7:

Microsoft says its operating system transmits the MAC address of the Wi-Fi access point (but not the name), signal strength, a randomly generated unique device ID retained for an unspecified limited period of time, and, if GPS is turned on, the precise location and direction and speed of travel. That happens when the "application or user makes a request for location information," the company says.

http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-ph...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wmexperts+(wpcentral)

And just where in the EULA does it say that I give permission to Apple to track me 24/7, phone home with the info, log it for all time, and do with it as it pleases with no consent?

It's in the Terms of Service, not the EULA.

Apple and its partners and licensees may provide certain services through your iPhone that rely upon location information. To provide and improve these services, where available, Apple and its partners and licensees may transmit, collect, maintain, process and use your location data, including the real-time geographic location of your iPhone, and location search queries. The location data and queries collected by Apple are collected in a form that does not personally identify you and may be used by Apple and its partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. By using any location-based services on your iPhone, you agree and consent to Apple’s and its partners’ and licensees’ transmission, collection, maintenance, processing and use of your location data and queries to provide and improve such products and services. You may withdraw this consent at any time by going to the Location Services setting on your iPhone and either turning off the global Location Services setting or turning off the individual location settings of each location-aware application on your iPhone. Not using these location features will not impact the non location-based functionality of your iPhone. When using third party applications or services on the iPhone that use or provide location data, you are subject to and should review such third party’s terms and privacy policy on use of location data by such third party applications or services.

Every smartphone manufacturer, including RIM, has similar terms. Boy Genius did all of the leg work, quoting and linking to the terms here.

 

[gnasher729]

Steve Jobs is Big Brother. Why the F does Steve Jobs do this? Why the F is Apple making the iPhone phone home every 12 hours with my location history? Also, could this be the cause of the horrible battery life some users see after updates caused by the iPhone trying to phone home again and again if unsuccessful?

For heavens sake, we have been through this a year ago or so, when Apple explained all this in terms that the average US senator can understand. Apple doesn't give a damn where you are or what seedy clubs you visit. But Apple wants to know the location of WiFi base stations everywhere, including near that stripper bar that you don't want us to know about, so when some innocent young girl goes near it with her iPhone, not knowing where she is, Apple can warn her and save her innocence.

 

[gnasher729]

So if someone were to (god forbid) get murdered about the same time and location I'm at there's not a chance that I will be falsely convicted or at the least questioned?

Let's follow the logic of this. Let's say somebody is murdered, and you were at about the time of the murder at about the location of the murder. So what would we, as law-obiding citizens, wish what should happen?

What should happen is that the police finds everybody who was near the location of the murder at the time. They should then find out which of these people had a motive, who had the means to kill, what forensic evidence there is and so on. They should then find out which one of those people was the murderer. So let's say there were ten people nearby that we would want the police to find, of which one is a murderer and nine innocent.

You are basically arguing that it is better if the police only finds five out of these ten people, and not ten. Actually, it would be better to find none of them. That is the only chance how they can avoid someone being falsely convicted or questioned. So maybe we should send all cops on a holiday? We will have nobody questioned anymore, and no false convictions. We will also have no correct convictions. Now let's turn the argument around. If it happened that innocent people were found to be near the scene of the crime because of their iPhone, then surely it would happen that guilty people are found because of their iPhone as well? So if your paranoid phantasies are right (which they are not), then surely Apple is just helping to rid the streets of crime? And you are against that?

 

[ap3604]

So if your paranoid phantasies are right (which they are not), then surely Apple is just helping to rid the streets of crime? And you are against that?

When you put it like that gnasher it makes perfect sense

Of course the paranoids will keep screaming "the sky is falling!" as more and more of our lives are integrated into technology but as long as you have nothing illegal to hide then its not a big deal