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With all that $, don't you wish that Apple would just hire/buy the top Cydia talent?
- Thread starter Calidude
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Apple doesn't need to have direct competition to practice anti-competitive behavior. In fact, no company does. Fact is, if it wasn't anti-competitive, it wouldn't matter whether Apple gives me the ok to install the app or not... and Apple wouldn't FORCE developers into giving them a cut. Can you imagine if this practice was the same for OSX? Windows? All hell would break loose!
I was going to soy something, but there are just too many edgamucatted 
opinions here.... and just not worth effort...
1day jailbreaking will stop.. just ask all the people DTV put in jail or financially ruined... to coders to the end users.
But till then i'll enjoy my jailbroken iP4S
opinions here.... and just not worth effort... 1day jailbreaking will stop.. just ask all the people DTV put in jail or financially ruined... to coders to the end users.
But till then i'll enjoy my jailbroken iP4S
How completely elitist of you!
The fact remains that only a small percentage of iOS users jailbreak. And a significant percentage of those are pirating software (either Apple's or iOS developers'.) What's in it for Apple to target this group?
Cydia sees 4.5 million users/week out of 350 million iOS device sold.
I'd love to see evidence to those statements.
The number of users that Cydia sees per week is irrelevant. For example, I have a jailbroken iPhone, but I only access Cydia once a month or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac
How completely elitist of you!
The fact remains that only a small percentage of iOS users jailbreak. And a significant percentage of those are pirating software (either Apple's or iOS developers'.) What's in it for Apple to target this group?
Cydia sees 4.5 million users/week out of 350 million iOS device sold.
I doubt you will be able to find evidence to support the above BS statement by BM.
Originally Posted by BaldiMac
How completely elitist of you!
The fact remains that only a small percentage of iOS users jailbreak. And a significant percentage of those are pirating software (either Apple's or iOS developers'.) What's in it for Apple to target this group?
Cydia sees 4.5 million users/week out of 350 million iOS device sold.
I doubt you will be able to find evidence to support the above BS statement by BM.
Which statement do you find hard to believe? That only a small percentage of iOS users jailbreak? Or that a significant amount of them are pirating software?
I provided evidence of the first claim. Even if most jailbreakers only access Cydia once a month, that's only 18 million out of 350 million iOS devices.
The other claim seems pretty obvious. I'm not claiming "most" or "a lot" or anything other that "a significant amount."
I posted evidence in support of my claim. Maybe you could do the same of your claim of BS.
Which way is it going to be? You can't discount the percentage of iOS users that jailbreak and then state that a "significant amount" of those are pirates without any evidence of the percentage of jailbreak users that pirate. Either we care about "most" and "a lot", or we don't.
For something that seems to be done by such a small number of users, you seem to be pretty upset about it. I really don't understand how other people wanting to make modifications to devices they own hurts you. If you want evidence that there is a thriving jailbreak community full of people interested in expanding the capabilities of their iOS devices, but not out to pirate paid apps all you have to do is spend a few minutes in MacRumors' very own "iPhone Hacks" section. You'll notice that there are no discussions of piracy allowed, whatsoever.
The original purpose of this thread was to discuss whether we thought that it would be in Apple's best interest to hire some of the developers that write certain tweaks and modifications for iOS that are distributed via Cydia. Personally I could see it going either way to me as an end user that chooses to jailbreak my device and take advantage of some of those modifications. What I can't understand, is what offends you so much about the idea.
No need to try and pigeonhole my argument. Your trying to argue tangential points to my argument. How does the actual percentage of jailbreak users that pirate software change the answer to my question... What's in it for Apple to target this group?
Upset? Just having a discussion here.
I love how you talk around what is actually happening. We aren't talking about modifying physical goods. Copyright law exists for a reason. A lot of people rely on it to make a living. I don't agree with spreading ignorance and encouraging infringement.
I completely aware of the fact that people jailbreak for legitimate reasons. I've defended such actions in this forum. I've never claimed otherwise, despite your attempt to mischaracterize what I did post. Unfortunately, I'd bet a lot of people are ignorant of when they are breaking copyright laws with respect to jailbreaking.
Not offended. Just disagree. Stop trying to make this personal. As has been pointed out, there are no real benefits to Apple for doing this. Has nothing to do with my personal feelings.
The problem is that you make it personal for those who choose to jailbreak their devices by villainizing our actions and making us out to be common criminals. The copyright office made an exemption to the DMCA for jailbreaking, therefore it is copyright legal, and therefore deemed a legal use of IP. End of story.
Yeah! Just like Comex getting an internship / abandoning the jailbreak community was great for us! Right???
If anything the title should be, "With all that $, shouldn't Apple implement jailbreak tweaks immediately?"
I will NOT buy another Apple product until it is JB, (Apple should just JB it itself to keeps guys going to Windows&Android this year).
This is an interesting point.
I have two views to put across one general and the other specific to what you said above.
My first point is that the philosophy of people who jailbreak is diametrically opposed to that of Apple/Jobs. Jailbreakers want an open system, Apple wants it to be closed as tight as possible under the law. This goes back to the very beginning of Apple. Google and Microsoft have done much more to embrace people that want to tinker with their device. I think if each of us who jailbreaks were to look at our activities and philosophies we would have to accept that we should not be supporting Apple because they don't approve nor want us. But iPhones are lovely devices so we accept a compromise.
Now regarding your quote above. I jailbreak for what I think are legitimate reasons. We have to accept that IP and copyright law is different across nations. It is my view, and I think many would agree (perhaps even Apple), that IP law in the United States is broken.
Regardless, which of these activities do you think break copyright law?
- The act of jailbreaking. Obviously the Dev Team is very careful not to release jailbreak tools that contain Apple code, this has delayed jailbreaks in the past.
- Buying an app like lockinfo or bitesms on Cydia. Cydia is a registered company, paying taxes, and obviously not immune to legal action from Apple.
- Installing a theme that does not borrow any Apple code or images.
In my view none of these constitutes copyright theft. I am not sure that most themers realize that weather widgets often use Apple code directly without permission. But there has never been action brought against the creators or persons that allow the sharing of this information (MacRumors included). I personally think that people know when they are stealing.
Have any examples where you think a jailbreaker would unknowingly be breaking copyright laws?
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When did I villianize anyone? You keep trying to change my argument to something more extreme.
Exactly the ignorant statement that people continue to spread. The copyright office created an exemption to the DMCA for jailbreaking for specific purposes (specifically unlocking and installing applications that are otherwise compatible.) This exemption is not an exemption to copyright law.
The fact that jailbreaking is not a violation of the DMCA does not mean that anything you do afterwards is legal, end of story. Obviously, there are those people that pirate third party software. But there is also the less obvious copyright issues that deal with modifying iOS to provide additional features that Apple doesn't allow. The DMCA exemption doesn't apply to that.
But, again, you are shifting the topic to avoid the question relevant to the thread. What's in it for Apple to target this group?
Legal when you jailbreak to accomplish things that are allowed by the limitations to copyright law.
Depends on the software. If it modifies iOS to provide additional functionality not accessible to App Store apps through public or private APIs, probably not.
Pretty clear infringement. Direct modification of iOS that would seem to be an obvious example of creating a derivative work.
The above are my interpretations of copyright law. Not legal advice.
I think my explanations allow for obvious examples.
Well it is "your interpretation". But the simple fact is JB'ing is legal. My cousin is an IP attorney here in FL. I asked him about this long ago when I jailbroke his iPhone for him after he used mine as I was curious if Apple could go after them. Sure some sources on Cydia are "iffy".... but like he said there's nothing illegal about it, if there were, Apple would be all over Cydia and developers like a fly on *****. I mean we're talking about the most sue happy company around when it comes to anything that they think infringed on their Copyright/IP rights.
If Apple could and wanted too, they would have Cydia blocked with court order or gone after developers.... but they can't, b/c there's nothing illegal about it no matter what various peoples interpretation of IP law is.
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Yep. For specific purposes. As I've said repeatedly.
Cydia pretty clearly falls under the copyright limitations regarding software compatibility. That doesn't mean that all of the apps and features distributed through Cydia are legal.
I'm not sure why this point keeps getting harped on. It's pretty basic and has very little to do with the point that I made in response to the OP.
You'd be absolutely right if they were distributing or selling parts of iOS code when they did this. They're not. What is being distributed is code that modifies what's already on the device - so they are not distributing a derivative work.
Copyright is not limited to distribution. The copyright holder has exclusive rights to reproduction, distribution, and the creation of derivative works subject to specific limitations.
Distributing code that modifies a copyrighted work without the permission of the copyright holder is likely contributory infringement, unless the the modification fall under the limitations to the holder's exclusive rights.
You should be a lawyer for Apple then since you know the law that well and they dont
That's a pretty snappy comeback. This is pretty basic stuff.
Apparently it's not so basic since Apple has no legal standing against cydia. You armchair lawyers are annoying.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I've specifically said that "Cydia pretty clearly falls under the copyright limitations regarding software compatibility." Where do you disagree with me?
IP law is by no means something I am familiar with beyond the very basics. It is also different here in the UK.
I don't know what the limitations to copyright law are and will not be looking through statue to find them. But it is clear the act of jailbreaking is legal.
That cydia continues to operate, receive income from sold apps, and exists as a registered company, strongly suggests to me:
- that running bitesms or a paid theme on my phone does not contravene copyright law, or
- Apple knowingly permits cydia to continue despite it knowing there are copyright infringements, for whatever reason, or
- Cydia is on the list but there are bigger battles at the moment with more significant threats
Yes, but you also claim installing a theme is a "pretty clear infringement". Despite cydia receiving income from paid themes.
You also refused to address whether lockinfo and bytesms were and infringement of copyright but indirectly implied that they were.
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Want to hazard a guess what the reason is?