WordPress for iOS Was Blocked From Updating Unless it Agreed to Add In-App Purchases for .Com Plans [Updated]

[amnesia0287]

I really cannot believe how stubborn people are to defend apple on this. It wasn't that WordPress was using another service for payments within the app. They had an app, that you can use for free, which also lets you manage a bit of your website if you are hosting a website on their website. If you do not have a website hosted on their platform then you can still use the app to manage any website in the world that is running WordPress. If you are accessing a website that is hosted on their servers then even before you use this app you have to go to Wordpress.com, and setup your website. In total the app probably handles about 10% of what you need or want to do with a WordPress website. In most cases people only use it to monitor comments and uptime. You can use it to update content, but it is so gimped compared to the actual web app that most people don't use it. Now Apple comes along and they see that WordPress charges up to $1,700 to host a high traffic website, which is probably mostly going to the actual management of said website, and they say they want 30% of that for WordPress to have the privilege to publish a free app when WordPress is right now probably paying about 4% to handle those transactions. How are people not getting this.

Nothing changes for any of WordPresses existing customers, and no one is forced to sign up in app. They are also free to charge higher prices to offset the 30% if people still want to use IAPs.

Are you expecting tons of people with big Wordpress sites to suddenly cancel though WP and start paying though their phones just because?

I totally think Apple overstepped in this case, but there is no damage. We also know nothing about how they actually got here other than a few random public statements. Either way tho I find it highly improbable that Apple did this to try and profit off WP. The number of users who will actually sign up via IAP are negligible and almost none will be using any of the larger more spendy plans.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Yes, until they force the big streaming services to do it.

what about the small streaming services that have the same exemptions as big streaming services?

 

[mnsportsgeek]

what about the small streaming services that have the same exemptions as big streaming services?

Sure those too.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Sure those too.

So you were being misleading by saying "big" streaming services...

 

[mnsportsgeek]

So you were being misleading by saying "big" streaming services...

You must be fun at parties.

 

[WordsmithMR]

If that means developers get up and leave, I am fine with that. If you choose to leave because you want an open platform, I'm fine with that too. But don't mess up the only place I can get what I choose.

That stifles innovation though. Apple is essentially telling devs that no matter what they make they will have to pay them a cut. It’s the same argument politicians make with taxes. If you raise the taxes too high then who is going to want to work for your city or state if the cut isn’t a fair cut.

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy my closed system as well due to security reasons, but that should be our choice. Not Apple’s or Googles. Also I “side” with Apple in certain cases, like the Epic one. In that case they’re both greedy pigs, but I still believed Apple is in the right because their policy is fair and Epic deliberately broke it. However in this Wordpress case, it’s certain unfair for them. This is why a broad stroke approach to a TOS and fees is not practical.

Also telling people to go elsewhere isn’t practical. There is only one other major mobile OS and they have slowly moved in the same direction as Apple and barring and legal fallout Apple encounters in the near future, I can bet that they will fully follow suit and close up their OS, at least on their Pixel devices.

 

[farewelwilliams]

You must be fun at parties.

Regardless it'll be: streaming services, then people will complain about other digital services like dropbox, then stores like Amazon and Target, then porn apps, etc...list goes on. People just love bashing Apple for whatever the reason.

 

[WordsmithMR]

You have choice. So do app developers.
Android.
macOS
Windows
The Web
Linux
Build their own phone platform.
No one is forced to develop for iOS, it’s a choice.
Don’t like Apples platform? Go somewhere else. It’s simple.

Ok and then Apples App Store loses out on quality apps and becomes overpriced. That sure sounds like a winning solution for everyone.

Telling devs to get out, means less apps. Less apps mean less for us to use on the OS. Less for us to use means less money spent in the store...if we even find the device worthwhile at that point.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Ok and then Apples App Store loses out on quality apps

That's what happens when apps move over to a competing store, yes. And it'll be up to Apple to make a better store to get them back. Competition is already at work. It's just that Apple is being really good at competing in this game.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

Apple's going to win a lot of battles, but they're going to seriously lose the war if this keeps going on.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Regardless it'll be: streaming services, then people will complain about other digital services like dropbox, then stores like Amazon and Target, then porn apps, etc...list goes on. People just love bashing Apple for whatever the reason.

If Apple wants to get a cut of digital sales. Then be consistent. It’s not a hard line to draw. And they claim to treat all developers equally so it shouldn’t be a problem.

We know they allow streaming providers to have their own exceptions because they’d lose that PR battle.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

The can was opened.
Next stop gov regulations cause I don't think apple will budge. Shareholders wouldn't be happy.

It’s amazing Apple kept this together for so long. It’s incredible that Apple is screwing up so badly now that it’s coming unraveled. It’s crazy that investors are boosting Apple to insane new heights as it’s all coming to light.

 

[dlondon]

im just gonna say this...

maybe apple should lower the tax a bit. but state that they'll only lower it if other platforms do as well. Im including Microsoft, Sony, & Nintendo, steam, Epic. as well as everyone else.

Might be considered illegal in some countries. Market forces would usually lower prices without having to state their intention or discuss with other rival companies.

Man good thing google charges a ridiculously low 30%. Shows just how greedy Apple really is

Google doesn’t prevent promotion of other options for payment like Apple does.

 

[farewelwilliams]

If Apple wants to get a cut of digital sales. Then be consistent. It’s not a hard line to draw. And they claim to treat all developers equally so it shouldn’t be a problem.

We know they allow streaming providers to have their own exceptions because they’d lose that PR battle.

Amazon currently sells Fortnite v-bucks physical gift cards through their iOS app where the user redeems the code from the physical card in the game. Does this mean Apple *should* essentially get that digital sale? Or is that a legitimate workaround? If so, that means any game with IAP can just convert their digital purchases to "physical" purchases with codes, run their own payment processor, and keep 100%! Gee if only it were that easy...

 

[RFolk]

This is going to be EPIC

 

[russell_314]

here’s the issue with Art Mark’s analogy. It’s not that people don’t want things marked up. That happens.

This would be like if the grocery store told the farmer that, if they’re going to offer their cheese, they also MUST sell their eggs through the grocery store at the same markup or they can’t sell anything.

Ummm that's how it works. Do you think the farmer decides the markup at the grocery store? 🤦‍♂️😂

 

[farewelwilliams]

Exactly. I don't have to buy the dealers services if I don't want to. With the Apple device I bought I don't have that choice.

Don't have that choice with a TV either. Or a Roku box. Or Alexa devices. Or Teslas. Or Tizen Smartwatches. Or Nintendoes. Or Oculus Quest.

 

[Mike2128]

People just love bashing Apple for whatever the reason.

that’s an unfair assessment. People also love defending it, for whatever reason, and the two opposite ends of the spectrum largely cancel one another out.

On the other hand, the type of person who not only goes to a site named MacRumors, but also signs up for and is active on a forum about Apple-related minutiae, is almost certainly not strictly an “Apple hater.” Discounting opinions based on that kind of labeling is total bull and leaves no room for discourse.
I’m an Apple fan. Phone, laptop, watch, tablet, streaming box, music subscription, email service, cloud file storage... I use and enjoy quite a bit of Apple product. I disagree with some of their policies regarding App Store policing. People can have nuanced opinions.

 

[Deguello]

The reason iOS is secure is because Apple is the gate keeper. They review every app to make sure there are no viruses or any funny stuff going on. If something slips by they can kill that app and ban the developer if need be. Once you open it up to other stores that is all gone. If someone creates a vulnerability that affects the OS and puts it in a store that doesn't care about reviewing (which none will), this virus could spread to devices that never even bought from that store. Apple would have no control to get that app out of the system.

Having multiple stores, and trust me if you allow this, means their will be a lot of stores. As a user, instead of looking at one store to buy something, I now have to look into 3 thousand of them. Hopefully those stores also come up with a mechanism of updating those apps. Now instead of hitting update all my apps, I have to go into each store to update things making it a fragmented mess. Its one thing to do this on a computer where generally people have a few programs to use and manage, it's another thing to control all this on a phone with hundreds of apps.

I can understand why developers want to keep a few extra percentage points for themselves, but I can't understand why end users want to acquire these problems. Again, this is all available on Android so if its important to you, get an android device. Heck, you can even have both devices at the same time if you want. You can get android devices fairly cheap if you want to see how the multiple store experience is not a fun one.

If you don’t understand, you could just stick with the Apple App Store.

What Apple is doing makes what MS did with IE, etc. look like patty cakes.

 

[Altivec88]

And neither is iOS

Malware On iPhones!!!

https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/25/malware-iphone-apps/ Walled garden has holes. No. Bueno. “Apple has confirmed that 17 malware iPhone apps were removed from the App Store after successfully hiding from the company’s app review process. Although no direct harm was done to app users, the...

forums.macrumors.com

🤣 🤣 🤣

Didn't you just prove my point. I said if some slip through the review, Apple can remove them, which they did. You are however correct in saying iOS is not secure either. I should have said iOS is more secure than macOS because they chose the gate keeper method of installing apps. Clearly you agree with that statement, don't you.

Am I saying they should do this on Macs too. absolutely not because it wasn't there from the start. Everyone who bought iOS knew this is the way it is, Everyone who developed for iOS knew this is the way it is. I get that some developers and some users would like this changed but how is this fair to those that don't want it changed. It's no different than if a bunch of developers came out in the open to protest that Apple should change to this method on the Mac. As a user, I would say Hell No to that too.

 

[5105973]

As someone who just returned to Apple, I am disappointed... but I also want to warn you, don’t leave just to prove a point. Google is the same. That’s why I left, and clearly I just left for another evil. Not the lesser of two evils. Just another equivalent.

At this point there is a mobile duopoly that is stifling innovation and harming the mobile tech world... and in this example extends to the internet itself.

Oh I definitely wouldn’t leave to prove a point. I’m more pragmatic than that otherwise I might have left Apple over some other things that got under my skin. But I would leave if the App Store starts emptying out of products.

My Fortnite using kiddos are already stranded (they didn’t get the latest update, so their games are unplayable) and we are in the process of looking at their options. We will probably try the game on Nintendo Switch but I need to get them larger SD cards first.

I already am tired of going the long way round when I want to purchase a book for my Kindle App on my iOS devices. I get around that by buying them through my Kindle App on my Samsung.

I like iOS and appreciate that the App Store is a tight ship. I agree with Apple in the Apple vs. Fortnite battle. But this thing with Wordpress has a different feel to it. I wonder what Apple is up to. I am interested in seeing how many services that have apps on the App Store will start getting these notices given that they’ve been up for quite some time with no objections from Apple.

I’m definitely not automatically on one side or the other. Not all of these battles are equivalent. But the overall net effect on the App Store and ultimately the consumer may be the same. I don’t want to be caught short on options.

I don’t see anything changing dramatically too rapidly. Like I said, I’m interested in identifying a possible trend.

 

[Mike2128]

Ummm that's how it works. Do you think the farmer decides the markup at the grocery store? 🤦‍♂️😂

You’re either misunderstanding the point or are just willfully obtuse, but either way, my point is not about the markup but about the product selection.
Automattic sells Wordpress premium services (the farmer’s eggs) elsewhere. They don’t sell them through iOS, at all. Now Apple (the grocery store) is saying they’ll no longer carry Automattic’s free offering (the farmer’s cheese) unless they also get the premium money (eggs.)

 

[5105973]

Regardless it'll be: streaming services, then people will complain about other digital services like dropbox, then stores like Amazon and Target, then porn apps, etc...list goes on. People just love bashing Apple for whatever the reason.

I don’t think most people here are bashing Apple for no reason. I’m here to try and understand the overall situation a bit better. In the Fortnite battle, I think Apple makes a strong case for what it has done, even though my kids who are customers have been negatively affected. There is no need to rehash all of that here so I won’t.

Wordpress has had this business model with no issues with Apple for as long as its app has been on the App Store. Now Apple seems like they’re trying to force an IAP system that doesn’t make sense for the consumer or the company, nor its own terms of service.

We are consumers of Apple products and have a vested interest in examining what’s going on and what could happen next to other products we rely on.

 

[Naraxus]

Apple bullying developers into accepting their 30% albatross but fortunately it's not long for this world. Apple's extortion will soon go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[farewelwilliams]

that’s an unfair assessment. People also love defending it, for whatever reason, and the two opposite ends of the spectrum largely cancel one another out.

On the other hand, the type of person who not only goes to a site named MacRumors, but also signs up for and is active on a forum about Apple-related minutiae, is almost certainly not strictly an “Apple hater.” Discounting opinions based on that kind of labeling is total bull and leaves no room for discourse.
I’m an Apple fan. Phone, laptop, watch, tablet, streaming box, music subscription, email service, cloud file storage... I use and enjoy quite a bit of Apple product. I disagree with some of their policies regarding App Store policing. People can have nuanced opinions.

That's a mischaracterization. I didn't say everyone who criticizes Apple are haters.

*SOME* people who are criticizing the developer policies aren't developers and therefore have extremely limited knowledge about how well Apple has been treating developers. Instead their opinions are based on clickbait articles that mischaracterizes Apple for maximum dramatic effect.

It's great that you're an Apple fan. But if you haven't developed an app yourself to put on the App Store, how do you know for sure how good or how bad is it? By all means, express your opinion, but I don't think they can hold any ground.

Unless you are a developer, then of course let's debate it out. I'm 100% game for that.