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No kidding. I wish everyone was this prescient while they were alive to actually help.

And if DP is ever a villager again, the villagers had better hope he doesn't have a special power.

Agreed. He is toast.

Well, I tried to nail him on Day 3, and unfortunately, failed to persuade sufficient numbers of others that he merited closer inspection, and that his survival so long was preternaturally unnatural.
 
wait whaaat? :eek:
i am shocked. i tell you, shocked. :)

twietee made me do it!!! honest!

:)


well, hopefully evryone takes it at good sports... right?:eek:

it was a tough one. at the beginning i didn't think we had any chance
then there were at least another couple moments we really were on the brink.

congrats to my partner twietee for a terrific game, and my sincere apologies to anyone who feels wronged and lied. i mean, you were, but it is just part of the game.
it wouldn't have been fun for anyone if we just laid down and died, would it?... ehrm, would it?

as far as the format, i am ambivalent about overtime. i like the concept and i think it can help the village tremendously, but it does add a lot of time and thos the drag feeling. maybe it just should be shorter.
i disliked the random resolution. it is anticlimatic and takes out control from the hands of the players. plus as an 'analytical' guy, you can't really analyze random.

also i think that when we have european players deadlines should be at a more balanced time, although i understand it is impossible to make everyone happy.

i like the pairwise connection, but it is a bit bitter as a WW, as you have to be disloyal from your partner from the get go. i know twietee felt the same. one thing is to lie in the thread, slightly different in PMs, as it feel more personal. sorry melrose! buddies?

ravenvii, the thematic idea was really cool and the narrations were nice, but i think they suffered a bit from coming in late

finally, this might sound wrong because of the final result, but i think the WW were underpowered in this situation. WW need the infection.
it took some serious planning, a lot of behind the scene work and a few lucky breaks to make this a work.
we thought I had 2 days, 3 at the very max, so we planned some contingencies, but was very surprised by the end result.

overall was a terrific game.
tremendously fun and very very hard.
 
Well, I, for one am sorry.

I'll try to do better next time. ;)

Same! I will absorb the info from this loss and put it to use in future games. Sorry, villagers.

i think the WW were underpowered in this situation. WW need the infection.

I don't know, I think I disagree in a game of 12. If the village doesn't get lucky in the first couple of days, there is very, very little to go on. By the end everyone has been a suspect by guesswork or by circumstance. 3 wolves means we'd have what, two or three tries, max?

But I agree on the overtime, as I mentioned. I think the game works better without it. I am also against majority locking, as it penalizes players in certain time zones or who need to be AFK for a bit.
 

Look, I think the WWs played a brilliant game.

And, I think the village was catastrophically and uniformly dreadful - insisting on taking the wrong choice almost every time.

While - objectively - I love the idea of the NW/twins - as it allows for private conferral which is one of the perennial weaknesses of the traditional 'village' set-up, subjectively, personally, - it is something that I will have "issues" of 'trust' with henceforth.

I also think that there was a reluctance to 'take' on a leadership role within the village, a tenancy to let things drift for too long, in the hope that something would 'crack' or give.

Besides, three tie-breaks are just ludicrous.
 
Same! I will absorb the info from this loss and put it to use in future games. Sorry, villagers.



I don't know, I think I disagree in a game of 12. If the village doesn't get lucky in the first couple of days, there is very, very little to go on. By the end everyone has been a suspect by guesswork or by circumstance. 3 wolves means we'd have what, two or three tries, max?

But I agree on the overtime, as I mentioned. I think the game works better without it. I am also against majority locking, as it penalizes players in certain time zones or who need to be AFK for a bit.

Agreed. With 12, an infection may be overkill.

We just got unlucky with all of the tiebreaks, especially considering everyone involved was an innocent. And the way they were settled didn't allow for any evaluation.

Overtime seemed cool, in theory, but because it was always an even number it was bound for failure.

----------


Look, I think the WWs played a brilliant game.

And, I think the village was catastrophically and uniformly dreadful - insisting on taking the wrong choice almost every time.

While - objectively - I love the idea of the NW/twins - as it allows for private conferral which is one of the perennial weaknesses of the traditional 'village' set-up, subjectively, personally, - it is something that I will have "issues" of 'trust' with henceforth.

I also think that there was a reluctance to 'take' on a leadership role within the village, a tenancy to let things drift for too long, in the hope that something would 'crack' or give.

Besides, three tie-breaks are just ludicrous.

To be fair, the point of the game is to try to find your way around lies and manipulation. What if you choose to trust the wrong leader - like Don't Panic? He always tries to take on a "leadership" role. It's made him a target, consistently.

At the end of the day, we all have our own theories and "gut" feelings. I also have a few people I tend to trust more than others, sometimes to my peril. It's just the way it is.

But it's a game. And in this instance, they played it better. But, really, no need to take it this seriously or beat a dead horse.
 
And, I think the village was catastrophically and uniformly dreadful - insisting on taking the wrong choice almost every time.

I respectfully - but strongly - disagree. By nature, if you lose, you have made the wrong choice (almost) every time. With that said, I can't think of one time where most of us did not attempt to at least think through our choices. Even when the rationalizations were wrong or ill-advised, it wasn't without thought. Laying down and giving up is a far worse behavior, in my opinion. That's pretty much all you can ask in a game of absolute subterfuge.

Catastrophically and uniformly dreadful is overstating it a bit. Disappointing, yes, and at times disjointed, but those are forgivable crimes in this kind of format.

As the last two standing, I think Moyank and I shoulder a heavy share of the blame, I think we're both fine with that. I don't think the village had any grand breakthroughs earlier, though, either.

We just got unlucky with all of the tiebreaks, especially considering everyone involved was an innocent. And the way they were settled didn't allow for any evaluation.

Overtime seemed cool, in theory, but because it was always an even number it was bound for failure.

Yeah. I really wanted to see if the tie-breaks could be useful, but we just never got a wolf to test it. All it ended up doing was slowing the game down and irritating some people into participating less.
 
I don't think the village made any major mistake, with the exception of sythas waiting too long on the last day to come out and pretending the hunter he knew the hunter was around

For the switcharoo i really wAs not around, orherwise i may have given it a go :D
 
That sure was frustrating.
Rik supected Don't Panic in the beginning. Then he was killed...

I pointed out several times that Don't Panic posted blocks of text that made no sense at all and had the sole purpose of building a smokescreen. He also gave obviously falls advice and tried to 'clear' Moyank right in the beginning and caused me to vote for her in the second round. (Kudos dp - smart move!) After he tried to pressure me to vote for sceptical or moyank it was clear that he was not in with them. Then sceptical quit ...
And last but not least I had to watch from the grave how Sythas was lynched despite making an excellent point. :(
 
FLAWLESS??!?


congrats to my partner twietee for a terrific game.

leo-toast-9.w529.h352.2x.gif




Well SHEEEET.

But, yeah, Twietee. Knew it. ;)

:eek:


Extremely intense game. Thanks for hosting it, ravenvii! I can do with these short but nice narrations.

I guess a special shout out to Sythas who shouldn't feel too bad. But yea, guess we'd been quite done if you hadn't outed yourself at all. :D Oh, and our Queen of course. You made quite a good case there..thanks! :D


As for the rules and all: the PM business is tricky, not sure everybody takes it as professional as ss does (albeit a few scars will be left I fear *sends virtual flower bouquet and some fresh asparagus*) and Melrose likewise I would think. DP, your PM box still alive? :D

The overtime is a nice concept in general but I think it should be tweaked a lot. No idea how right now, but more quick n' cut-throat. Guess nobody likes the dice calls at all. Although I have to say that suicide isn't the proper answer in my opinion. ;)
Tough to say about ww-balance with 12 players. I tend to agree that the infection could be overkill. Maybe we're a bit biased here (DP was pessimistic the first few days, in the end it was me) but I do think at least the Kami should stay in play - probably even regarding both wolves.
 
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Not sure if chrmjenkins lurked around, if so I think he had quite a good laugh, but we're kinda lucky nobody questioned my 'political figure' of the 33% chance of one of the ww being paired with the Seer. And that DP never openly corrected that. :D
 
Now I can post at will again! Finally Free!! :D
Those poor children though..

PMs: it's the same with the infected NW, although that would be extremely bad luck and hence a rare situation: except you're ss. It's less the lying to your partner imo, quite the same than doing it in thread, but the constant and heavy snitching. That made me really uncomfortable.

About the switcheroo: not sure you two were the only villagers around at that time (I know you weren't). So maybe your twietee-wagon was just too premature or your case too weak at that time. :cool: I'd argue that you'd gathered at least one vote more if you'd choose Melrose - probably two since Sythas did suspect him as well at that point in the game. Next time, Buffy.. maybe.. :p
 
No kidding. I wish everyone was this prescient while they were alive to actually help.

And if DP is ever a villager again, the villagers had better hope he doesn't have a special power.

Didn't I say Twietee was bad? Two days ago. No one listened.

Don't Panic will be voted off first for me every time. Or eaten. One or t'other. EVERY SINGLE TIME, YOU HEAR ME!!!! :p

Agreed. With 12, an infection may be overkill.

We just got unlucky with all of the tiebreaks, especially considering everyone involved was an innocent. And the way they were settled didn't allow for any evaluation.

That tie breaker thing has to stop... I got rather bored there for a while.
 
Didn't I say Twietee was bad? Two days ago. No one listened.

Don't Panic will be voted off first for me every time. Or eaten. One or t'other. EVERY SINGLE TIME, YOU HEAR ME!!!! :p



That tie breaker thing has to stop... I got rather bored there for a while.

Pretty much in agreement with Melrose.

My apologies for being more than a bit tetchy yesterday. Events elsewhere, and various other things.

The wolves played a blinder, and bluffed, and steered, and held their nerve.

Re the NW (twins) idea, while I see the possible advantages, I also see a huge conflict of interest when you run into the situation where you begin to suspect your partner.

Now, I'll grant that I began to suspect DP from very early on, and pressed for questions to be asked. However, initially - I wasn't suspicious of twietee, (my partner), and only when he was lukewarm re my expressed suspicions of DP did I begin to wonder about him.

Indeed, although he asked me several times whether I was a WW, it never occurred to me to ask the same question in return. Thus, until quite late when a small core kernel of suspicion had begun to form, I didn't suspect him, and then, (and this is the drawback of the 'twin' game) I didn't want to suspect him, as doing so would have destroyed - to my mind - whatever trust existed between us.

Lying openly is a part of the game, and can be very effective when used strategical. Yet, lying via PM is not something I am entirely comfortable with - either as the perpetrator (which, of course, was not the case for me, here), or as the victim, the person on the receiving end of the lies, misdirection and misrepresentation via PM.

However, even frayed trust (as a result of PM) is not the real issue here; rather, I think that the village 'identity' and loyalty, oddly enough, got even more diluted than usual with the 'twin' system. People's primary loyalty - I suspect - became devolved on their 'twin' (whether killed or not) and the wider considerations of the loyalties, and motivations, of others seemed somehow more diluted. In an way, it seemed to me that there was less cohesion in the village with this format - than was more usual.

This is not a criticism, by the way, more an observation.




 

Look, I think the WWs played a brilliant game.

And, I think the village was catastrophically and uniformly dreadful - insisting on taking the wrong choice almost every time.

I don't think the village made any major mistake, with the exception of sythas waiting too long on the last day to come out and pretending the hunter he knew the hunter was around

I have to say, anytime the Seer comes right out and names a WW after a scan, and the village STILL doesn't lynch the WW, that's not only a "major mistake," it's a colossal blunder.

Well played, wolves.
 
I have to say, anytime the Seer comes right out and names a WW after a scan, and the village STILL doesn't lynch the WW, that's not only a "major mistake," it's a colossal blunder.

Well played, wolves.

Absolutely agreed on this one. And yes, the wolves played a blinder. Chipping away at Sythas's credibility was a master stroke.
 
Fun fact: we heavily discussed the Blind Seer move ourselves but discarded it as we both got the hottest targets around. It would have been a very useful tool - especially in a situation like this. And if the circumstances weren't that special, we would have been toast most likely.

Wouldn't have thought that after the "Pluto was the Hunter" move nobody was going for the tie at least. Until the very end I/we thought the fact that he scanned rick was made up and a cover up to pull out some new info (like QoS is the hunter etc.) the very last minute.


Thanks again to ravenvii. :)

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Also, I thought it totally obvious so it was weird nobody saying this out loud, I couldn't of course, but did actually anybody suspect Sythas and me being partners? He came to the rescue when I had three votes already.

Good thing is that this gave no reason not to lynch Sythas. :D
 
Fun fact: we heavily discussed the Blind Seer move ourselves but discarded it as we both got the hottest targets around. It would have been a very useful tool - especially in a situation like this. And if the circumstances weren't that special, we would have been toast most likely.

Wouldn't have thought that after the "Pluto was the Hunter" move nobody was going for the tie at least. Until the very end I/we thought the fact that he scanned rick was made up and a cover up to pull out some new info (like QoS is the hunter etc.) the very last minute.


Thanks again to ravenvii. :)

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Also, I thought it totally obvious so it was weird nobody saying this out loud, I couldn't of course, but did actually anybody suspect Sythas and me being partners? He came to the rescue when I had three votes already.

Good thing is that this gave no reason not to lynch Sythas. :D

It was already known that you and I were partners. Instead of focussing on bringing down DP, it seems clear that Syhthas hoped to bag the second wolf at the same time. However, I do think that the 'twins' arrangement meant that an extra set of loyalties were battling with the primary loyalty, that of the village, which was diluted as a result.

While I suspected DP from very early, I wasn't sure who Wolf Number 2 was and wasted time trying to work out Moyank's loyalties and those of the unfortunate anjinha (and, again, my apologies: I rarely get an ideé fixeé on someone during a WW without some sort of justification.)

It wasn't until the third day that I set to wondering about Sythas and twietee, and by then, DP managed to slither out of danger.

 
It was already known that you and I were partners. Instead of focussing on bringing down DP, it seems clear that Syhthas hoped to bag the second wolf at the same time.


Well, with partners I meant ww of course and only during the events of the last day at that.

And, extremely lucky for us, was Sythas not only scanning him that we munched the very first night but also was that guy your Hunter. Pluto. So that kill and scan at the very first night pretty much determined the actions of your Seer at the very last day since Sythas knew he would have been our desert after he outed himself so he tried his best, in hindsight he should have said that right from the very start of the day.

So yep, we got a couple of extremely good shots but I have to say that it's nevertheless extremely annoying to play with DP (;)) as he gets heavily suspected from the second day. Think rick was the first to openly say that. Meister as well. You already via PM so ya....



:D
 
I think my mistake was to bring Queen of Spades in the melee instead of just voting for Don't Panic. She thought I said she was the other wolf, it was a simple guess. I should of just focus on DP.

I don't know why the Hunter part was a problem, my logic was simple and I just said there's a good chance it was alive because of my unlucky strike of scan and we did tie every day. The hunter would not have let him die in a tie like that.
 
Well, with partners I meant ww of course and onyl during the evetns of the last day at that.

And, extremely lucky for us, was Sythas not only scanning him that we munched the very first night but also was that guy your Hunter. Pluto. So that kill and scan at the very first night pretty much determined the actions of your Seer at the very last day since Sythas knew he would have been our desert after he outed himself so he tried his best, in hindsight he should have said that right from the very start of the day.

So yep, we got a couple of extremely good shots but I have to say that it's nevertheless extremely annoying to play with DP as he gets heavily suspected from the second day. ;) Think rick was the first to openly say that. Meister as well. You already via PM so ya....



:D

Well, I could not believe that my fellow villagers were not even slightly suspicious of DP by the third day, because to me, it was increasingly obvious that he was a WW; now, his smoke screens and obfuscations were brilliant.

I also think that the WWs may have suspected that Meister was the Hunter which was why he met his Maker on N3; not sure it was wise of Sythas to reveal that the Hunter has been slaughtered - that removed the threat of a card that the WWs might have fought could have still been played.

Thank you ravenvii, for running this game. It was an intriguing experiment, and a most interesting premise, one which did effect how individuals interacted with one another.
 
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