[WW] MRVille VIII: Something has Survived... GAME OVER, Vampires win!

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by jav6454, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. jav6454, Nov 30, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010

    jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #1
    Welcome to the 8th Installment of the Werewolf Game... I am your host for this game. For starters, this game will see no major rule changes, just clarifications before game.

    Please do check the rules for changes....

    THE GOOD GUYS:

    Master Hunter: Picks a player to protect each night from werewolf and/or vampire attacks. He cannot protect himself or pick the same player to protect consecutively. The protection is effective against infection and against a kamikaze werewolf attack during the daytime. They have the ability to, during the daytime, insta-kill anyone. He/she is also eternally immune from Infection, and is immune once against an attack, a second attack kills him/her.

    Apprentice Hunter: Same as Master Hunter, but is vulnerable to infection and attack.

    Seer: Can scan any ALIVE player for their role.

    Undertaker: Similar to the Seer, except for DEAD players.

    Sorcerer: One-time power to resurrect any dead player during the daytime.

    Priest: Can, during the daytime, ask the Gods a yes/no question. Requires 3 villagers to agree to participate in the ritual. If ritual fails to complete by nightfall, it must be restarted the next day. An unanswerable question will result in the Priest's death. Has the blessing of the Gods - cannot be attacked or infected for the first three days of the game. Immune to vampire conversion by default since the vampire can only convert non-specials.

    Executioner: May change who is lynched once during the game.

    The Secret Society: Villagers who can PM each other. No other special powers. Starts with 3 villagers. Can optionally recruit 2 more. Recruitment is a instant ability and can only be done during the daytime. If a werewolf or vampire is recruited, or a member of the Society is infected, the werewolf or vampire will have the option to murder all the members of the Society in one night. This will take place of a normal nightly killing. This is, of course, unless the werewolf or vampire which is part of the Society is lynched first. In case of an infiltration, the Society will not be informed of an infiltration. Note that the Secret Society is not considered "special" in the context of the game. All players can say no to the Night Watch recruitment. Night Watch only gets a Accepted/Declines Invitation PM.

    Villagers: Same as before.

    THE BAD GUYS:

    The Werewolves: There are two Werewolves. Werewolves can PM each other. They pick one villager to kill per night.

    a) The Alpha Werewolf can at any time during daytime, pick one villager to infect. This will convert the villager into a normal werewolf (no special abilities) and join the werewolves' pack. The Alpha Werewolf only has one chance at an infection - there are no second chances in case of a failed infection.

    b) The Kamikaze Werewolf has the ability to pick any villager to kill during his lynching.

    c) The normal Werewolf has no powers. This type results from an successful infection by the Alpha Werewolf.

    Vampire: There will be one vampire. At first, the only ability the vampire has is to turn a villager into a vampire. Until the vampire infects a villager, the vampire is seen as a Villager to the Seer. The Vampire will be seen as a vampire under the prayer of the Priest. This conversion will only be successful if the villager is NOT a special. The vampire has unlimited attempts to infect a villager, but only one villager can be infected. Once the vampire infects another, the two vampires will begin to kill one player per night.

    Note that the vampire(s) are NOT on the werewolves' side, so they will NOT know who the werewolves are, nor will the werewolves know who the vampire(s) is/are. Both of them can forfeit their actions for the night.

    Miscellaneous:

    a) Villagers can NOT PM any other player regarding the game.

    b) Players can NOT post confidential communication (this includes communication between a Special and the host; the wolves; or any player and the host). This includes copy and paste and screenshots. Players can post information given to them by the host in their own words, they just can't copy and paste, or post a screenshot.

    c) Players can NOT edit their posts during gameplay. If you do for spelling reasons, please state so in the Edit field.

    d) Dead players can NOT participate in the game - this includes providing information, encouragement, tips or otherwise. This has been an issue in the previous game, so I'm going to be more strict with this. Dead players are eligible to TWO posts following his death. These two post follow the same rules as before - cannot influence the game, and so forth. Posts consisting of little more than an image is DISCOURAGED in the forums at large, so please avoid this.

    e) Voting for lynching will close as soon as majority is reached.

    f) Voting can only take place in the daytime. Any votes made during the night will not be counted.

    g) For clarity, when you vote, bold the name of the player you're voting for. This alleviates confusion and makes it easier for me to count the votes. You can also play with this - "I really like Bob, he's a great guy" counts as a vote for Bob You can jokingly vote by not bolding the name - it will not be counted.

    h) You can retract and change your vote at any time up to the close of the vote. Majority closes the voting and hence the day.

    i) The game will begin at DAYTIME.

    j) There will be a TIME LIMIT for Specials to send in their PMs. The time limit will be 18 hours after the posting of the lynching (NOT after the voting closes) on weekdays, and 24 hours if any of the 18 hours falls on a Saturday or Sunday. There is a 36-hour TIME LIMIT for the lynching vote (except Day 1; that's 48 hours). If time limit is reached, the person with the most votes will be lynched. In case of a tie, the person who reached the number of votes first, will be lynched.

    k) Specials CAN pre-emptively send in their actions during the daytime for the following night. Specials are allowed to change pre-emptive actions unless it has already been resolved. Any changes that affect a pre-emptive actions mean the action(s) will be flushed and the players have to resubmit their actions for the night.

    l) Please sign-up only if you are willing to stick through the whole game. It is not fun to have missing players dragging on the game. As such time of inactivity will be 80 hours; after you die. If you are a Special, don't post in-game and you PM me actions, then you will be counted as active. If you get caught as a special because of this, tough. You are also supposed to contribute even a "Hello" to the game or realize when I give you the position if you can or can't make the game.

    m)Vampire attack on Wolf and vice-versa. Immunity for one time. After, the target dies. Infecting a vampire is a wasted Infection, nothing happens.

    n) Turn order during the night:

    Hunters protect;
    Vampires attacks;
    Werewolves attacks;
    Seer and Undertaker scans.

    Game starts in the Day with all Specials active!!

    Role Assignment will be done via Random.org
    Player List
    1. Melkorr - Dead, became wolf dinner
    2. jimN
    3. Mexbearpig - Lynched, was a Werewolf
    4. Melrose
    5. Don't Panic - Lynched, villager
    6. chrmjenkins - Dead, struck down by the gods - Brought back to life - dead, by hand of Rodimus Prime
    7. stonyc - Dead, his blood was the vampire's meal
    8. -aggie- - Lynched, was a Werewolf
    9. ravenvii
    10. NathanMuir - Dead, blood drained by vampires
    11. Appleguy123 - Dead, half his body found hanging from a rope due to a WW.
    12. mscriv - taken by the gods
    13. CBoss - Lynched, villager
    14. iBlue
    15. philbeeney - Dead, struck down by the gods
    16. Rodimus Prime - Lynched, was a Werewolf
    17. renewed - Dead, struck down by the gods
    18. Plutonius - Ravaged by a wolf
    19. Moyank24 - Dead, **** down by the Hunter
     
  2. Melkorr macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Location:
    In a house
    #2
    In.
    I'll bring my final post into this thread.

    I think you should be able to say no to the NW recruiting you.
    Eg. NW PMs ravenvii to recruit aggie, ravenvii PMs aggie saying the NW wants him in their group, aggie PMs back yes or no. Also no further messages or reasons are allowed. Ravenvii can only tell the NW yes or no. If no then the NW are left to wonder why.

    I'd like to see clearer rules on how the NW can recruit is it unamious agreement, majority or just one person? You guys might already know the answer but I would like to see them officially in the rules.
     
  3. Cerebrus' Maw macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    #3
    Gah, massively torn for this. I fly out on holidays on the 12th, which is sunday week.

    Tell me Jav, is it 48 hour voting? If so, then I reckon I just have to stay out.
     
  4. jimN macrumors 6502a

    jimN

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Location:
    London
    #4
    I'd like to be in again please. For inactive players is that 3 days realtime or game time, because game time is far too long. Any chance we could shorten days to 36 hours. This is fair to all timezones and stops it going slow - forces people to post.

    I always assume the night watch decision was a majority vote but have never been in night watch (yet).
     
  5. Mexbearpig macrumors 65816

    Mexbearpig

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Location:
    Here
    #5
    In.

    I'll post thoughts later. I'm off to school.
     
  6. Melrose Suspended

    Melrose

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    #6
    Damn why'd you have to go and make it complicated?

    I agree w your new rule, btw.

    Ah hell with it. in.
     
  7. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #7
    in

    - agree that the SS requires clarification in term of how the recruitment is done and in the timing of the wipeout option (see chrmjenkins post at the end of last thread). one possibility is to simplify and to eliminate the wipeout option and the notification of infection.

    - what is 'active enough'? also, the role shouldn't be reassigned. it really messes things up and can completely change the game

    - you should clarify other aspects of the rule, that we use but are not spelled out. for example, we hold that ww are immune to one vamp attack and viceversa, but i don't think it's spelled out in the rules.

    - i submit here too that i think that the hunters are overpowered as they are: two virtually invulnerable characters are too much.
    make their immunity a one-shot thing for infection or WW/vamp attack. still very powerful, but it's more balanced.
     
  8. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA
    #8
    It's the pimento loaf, inside the fridge. It must be killed.
     
  9. stonyc macrumors 65816

    stonyc

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Location:
    Michigan
  10. -aggie- macrumors P6

    -aggie-

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Where bunnies are welcome.
    #10
    I'm IN.

    BTW, the reason I didn't want to be recruited in the last game was due to that being the only way for the baddies to kill the hunters, since they can kill all the SS/NW players in one night. It's my understanding that hunters aren't protected in that case.

     
  11. stonyc, Dec 1, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010

    stonyc macrumors 65816

    stonyc

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Location:
    Michigan
    #11
    That's what I thought, too. Special slaughter attack > attack immunity...

    I guess that scenario would benefit from some clarification.

    EDIT: I just thought of something re: inactivity...

    What if a special deliberately chooses to ONLY send PMs as a strategy of laying low? Say, I am the Seer, and in trying to maintain a low profile, I only send Jav my scan PMs... from the outside to everyone, it will look like I am inactive. But since I am sending PMs to Jav, he'll know that I'm active... so he can't kill me off. That will just clue everyone else to the fact that I am some kind of special, and trying to lay low...

    I think we should amend the criteria for inactivity to be that if you do not vote for two lynchings in a row (and you are not posting), you get killed off. That doesn't mean people HAVE to vote for someone... they could simply post something like, "I'm not 100% certain who to vote for, therefore I vote for no one." That would then count as a "vote" for activity purposes...
     
  12. ravenvii macrumors 604

    ravenvii

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Location:
    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #12
    IN!

    One thing that's mentioned about my previous game was whether we should allow specials to forfeit their orders? What think you, jav?
     
  13. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #13
    I'll play. In.

    As for the whole boot someone after three days thing, I agree with that change.
     
  14. stonyc macrumors 65816

    stonyc

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Location:
    Michigan
    #14
    Oh my!

    I know who I'm voting first! :eek:















    Just kidding... :p



    Or am I? :cool:
     
  15. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #16
    I have taken into account your input, I will be releasing a more formal post soon, class is about to start.
     
  16. jav6454, Dec 1, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010

    jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #17
    That is true. I think everyone should have a choice to be recruited or not. However, as ravenvii made in the last game the Secret Society the ones actually running the village. In other words, like the heads of state. So saying no is saying no to authority.

    Thoughts? However, I can make an exception for the Hunters...

    I want to keep it to 36 hours. However, because of the holidays, I may extend it well to 40 hours.

    I am going to make the deadline 80 hours. Or 3 days with an extra 8 hours


    - The wipeout should remain as I believe that acts as a nice deterrent to crazy recruiting. The infiltration I don't agree. I think they shouldn't be notified; however, it's up to you guys to have final say there.

    - Active enough means 80 hours of non-activity. As per the role, now that I think of it, yes it sounds fair to also kill the role. That makes the person in charge of the role that much more responsible.

    - I may make it one is an apprentice Hunter and the other the master hunter. The master is the same as right now, the apprentice however has a one chance defense. In other words, double attack kills him. Or attack, bye-bye immunity and then infect. Or infect, bye-bye immunity then kill. This you can feel free to discuss.

    Agreed with what you posted. Everyone here has at least 10 to 5 minutes time to skim through the last 10 posts and then have a small say. Remember, we have wide voting windows, so just say something. I just want to know your are at least trying to be active.

    I would like to leave to the specials what to or not do with their actions. I believe it adds much more depth into a game if a special refuses to kill. For example, because the vampires didn't attack on day 2, I never suspected chrmjenkins. Otherwise, I would have. Smart move to through the surprise of "OMG we have vamps now" off and concentrate on wolves and villagers self killing themselves. That is strategy at it's best.


    Thoughts? I am open to all ideas...
     
  17. -aggie- macrumors P6

    -aggie-

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Where bunnies are welcome.
    #18
    So, we've established ravenvii is the first to get lynched, right? :)
     
  18. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
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    #19
    That's if he isn't the Priest ;)
     
  19. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #20
    i think the latest tweaks you mention balance the game better.

    for the activity issue, i think what you propose is fine, but probably just stressing at sign up that everyone should have the courtesy of peeping in at least once a 'day', without making it necessarily a rule, should be enough.

    and, on the other side of the spectrum, i promise i'll try to limit my own posting :D
     
  20. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    #21
    I'd like to play again, so in please.

    Jav, as far as the Executioner having 30 minutes, I think that's very limiting. We have players all over the world with multiple time zones in play. I would suggest that you PM the executioner as soon as majority or the deadline is reached so that they get an email notification of the PM and are not just dependent on reading the thread at the right time. Hopefully, the Executioner will be an active player and we won't have to worry about this, but if we want to play with this role we have to allow a reasonable time for response.

    For clarification my question in the previous game was not about all specials, but just WW/Vamps having the ability to choose not to kill. I understand the strategy argument, but one of the reasons I enjoy these games is due to the ability to use deduction and reasoning to seek out the bad guys. As a normal villger, which we've deemed to be an important role for the game to work, there have to be some constants in the game so that it doesn't become completely random. Without constants there are no clues and without clues to follow the game ceases to be fun as it regresses to simple luck.

    I know we are constantly tweaking the complex game, but I would like to see us settle on some major things that are considered foundational to how the game is played (votes, kills, immunities, infections, etc). Exactly what these foundational things should be is up for debate, but I think it's something we should keep in mind. We've lost some good players along the way because of too many tweaks and it does get confusing at times. I'd hope that we could regain players like abijnk and Tomorrow.
     
  21. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #22
    mscriv,
    i don't think the baddies would often forfait their night kill.
    it happened last game under very particular circumstances, following iBook dropping out of the game and then, in order to patch the situation, ravenvii using language that would have possibly compromized chris if he did use the ability

    and even so, in reality, since our agreed target after ibook dropped out was rodimus (who we suspected of being but had not outed himself as the hunter yet), even if chris had proceeded with the hit order, the effect would have been the same, because rodimus immunity would have kicked in and in the eyes of the village nothing would have happened that night.
    whether that would have affected the game down the line is hard to tell, but probably not much

    one related aspect that would be helpful if it is clarified, is what the narration does or does not reflect.
    for example, would a failed attempt on the hunter be clearly indicated, or not?
    precedent are different for different games.
    I think that anything that goes on behind the scenes should NOT be directly referenced. keep all possibility open and give people space to 'manouvre' and bluff.
     
  22. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA
    #23
    Allow the executioner to send you conditional PMs.

    For instance,

    "If x is going to be lynched, I would like to kill y instead. If for some reason y is insta-killed, please kill z in the place of x."

    Or

    "If x and y have equal votes and x is going to be lynched, lynch y instead."

    And the list goes on. As long as you can parse their request, they shouldn't have to respond in a small time frame.
     
  23. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    #24
    I hear what you are saying Don't panic, and I appreciate the thought, but I respectfully disagree. For everyone playing the game, besides the baddies who know what is going on behind the scenes, there must be some foundational point of truth or reference from which to make speculations or deduce opinions.

    For example, if the operating truth of gameplay is that every night there is one or two kills based on the WW/Vamp activity then I am left with a basis from which to make deductions about the course of the game.

    - if there is one kill then I am going to assume the WW's are active
    - if there are two kills in a night then I am going to assume the vamp's have been activated
    - if there has always been only one kill and suddenly there are no kills then I'm left to speculate about hunter protection or a failed attack, but I don't know which has occured
    - if we have reached the point of two kills per night and suddenly there are no kills then i'm really wondering what has happenned amongst the possibilities of protection and failed attack options

    Every game must have some level of structure or rules that guide gameplay and prevent it from becoming simply random events. If we allow those whose role is to kill the power to choose not to kill then we have, in my opinion, altered one of the fundamental aspects of the game and greatly reduced the ability for those playing it to make any sort of workable deductions. Like I said before, if we eliminate all of the potential clues than it ceases to be fun, because what's really the point if all we are doing is a bunch of random guessing.

    As far as Ravenvii's point that the bad guys could accomplish this by refusing to send the kill PM before the deadline, well, you simply don't allow that. If no PM is received by the deadline then there is no kill and the nightly narration indicates that there was no order to kill given that night. You could creatively word it however you wanted, but players should know that that the deadline was missed so as not to be lead on a wild goose chase believing it was a failed attack or a successful protection.

    Some of you may think that I'm arguing against strategy and I see how you could think that, but it's not my intention. I'm all for strategy and well devised crafty gameplay, but we have to draw the line somewhere in terms of what kinds of strategy are out of bounds. Someone last game thought it was good strategy to use the voting record to out Chrmjenkins. We all agree that this was crossing the line. Posting information after your death in the game is out of bounds as well and this problem has also previously occurred. My goal is to help us critically think through what rules we want to put in place to encourage active and balanced game play that allows some measure of accurate detective work.

    And to Don't panic and Chrmjenkins, please don't think I'm saying you guys were out of line by choosing not to kill in the previous game. In all of the complex games I've played so far this is the first time I've seen this happen and thus I had never even thought of it as an option or a potential strategy. However, now that I have seen it used and allowed, I'm expressing my thoughts on it for future gameplay.

    Last, I agree with Don't Panic's comments about narration. I know the generally accepted belief up to this point has been that there are not clues in the narration, but I've been a part of games where there clearly were clues given. So, I think we need to decide upon how narration should or should not influence the game so everyone is on the same page. In other words, as it stands now, some players are looking for narrations clues and others are simply ignoring narration believing that there are no clues. Everyone needs to be on an even playing field and the narrator needs to know what if anything is expected or not expected of his/her efforts.
     
  24. jav6454 thread starter macrumors P6

    jav6454

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #25
    Posted from iPhone

    Only seven more people and I can close sign-ups and write the introduction. Thoughts on starting time?

    I was thinking Night with only good specials doing their thing if we have new players to give them a chance.

    Or

    If we have repeat players (same as last time), we start out directly into Day 1 with everyone active.
     

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