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WWDC Keynote Summary
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iGary...THANKS for that graphic...
So today Steve was showing off OSX on a P4 that is 98% slower then what they offer now and trying to say it is a great improvement? Huh? Wow...talk about a flip-flop.
So today Steve was showing off OSX on a P4 that is 98% slower then what they offer now and trying to say it is a great improvement? Huh? Wow...talk about a flip-flop.
B-52 Macer said:
Sorry if you think that your PowerPC Mac is going to gain value from this announcement, you are dreaming. (Not trying to be a smart-a** just telling you how it is.)
There are a few people still holding out on OS9 for whatever reason. This will be MUCH different then that. I also didn't think a 1.42Ghz PM could run OS9. Could they?
wdlove said:
Do you think that Leopard will be x86 only? Any one care to take a stab at this? If they do make it compatible with G4 and G5's I doubt it will be optimized for them.
So the rumors are true. Apple is moving to Intel chips.
Intel-based Macs next year. Full transition "done" in two years.
Big deal.
For me, Apple is about the software. OS X, Final Cut, iLife, iWork, and all that goes with it. It's simple, fast, and intuitive -- but it's powerful. That's what brough me to OS X in the first place.
So ... what about hardware? Sure, my Powerbook rules. But I'd love to have been able to dual-boot OS X and XP on my PC @ the house. I won't be able to do that, even with Mac OS X on x86 That would be technological suicide, unless Apple plans to pull a Sega and transition in the a software company that makes iPods.
OS X 10.5 will be named "Leopard" (blech) and should ship approx the same time as Longhorn.
That puts Apple in an interesting position. If they open OS X to run on any homebrew machine, Windows stands a serious risk of losing several dozen percentage points of marketshare. If Apple manages to get 10.5 in place for Longhorn *AND* can drop hardware prices to match what a new PC to run Longhorn would cost, they may still be able to pull off the coup.
Apple says they're gunning for users. I'm not so sure about that.
Either way, compeition is a good thing. I'm curious to see how all this plays out.
Intel-based Macs next year. Full transition "done" in two years.
Big deal.
For me, Apple is about the software. OS X, Final Cut, iLife, iWork, and all that goes with it. It's simple, fast, and intuitive -- but it's powerful. That's what brough me to OS X in the first place.
So ... what about hardware? Sure, my Powerbook rules. But I'd love to have been able to dual-boot OS X and XP on my PC @ the house. I won't be able to do that, even with Mac OS X on x86 That would be technological suicide, unless Apple plans to pull a Sega and transition in the a software company that makes iPods.
OS X 10.5 will be named "Leopard" (blech) and should ship approx the same time as Longhorn.
That puts Apple in an interesting position. If they open OS X to run on any homebrew machine, Windows stands a serious risk of losing several dozen percentage points of marketshare. If Apple manages to get 10.5 in place for Longhorn *AND* can drop hardware prices to match what a new PC to run Longhorn would cost, they may still be able to pull off the coup.
Apple says they're gunning for users. I'm not so sure about that.
Either way, compeition is a good thing. I'm curious to see how all this plays out.
I did NOT say that I think that my PowerPC Mac is going to gain value from this announcement! Where did you read that? (are you dreaming?Abercrombieboy said:
) However, I am arguing your bold statement that Macs resale value just hit the floor. Give some evidence for that please.And yes, I meant the 1.25GHz G4 running Mac OS 9, not the 1.42GHz.
Many of us are jaded by the intel news including myself.
Someone mentioned that the value of macs will drop, but that is nothing new. Any computer that is more than 12 months drop in price substantially. You would also see a difference in OS in 12 month period. Look at OSX 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4.
Would you install 10.2 on your machine now? I would say no. So regardless whether it is PPC or intel, it does not matter. When it ages, they all become obsolete.
As for the hardware purchase, get it now if you need it for school and work. If you can be more productive, buy the machine so you save time or earn more money. This is not for people who just want a faster computer and use work as an excuse to get a faster machine. That is "wanting" not "needing"
As for the hobbiest and techies who is "wanting," I'm sure they can wait unless they want to play games with faster refresh rate. But holding off for 2 years for a new machine to relase is inflicting self punishment.
Just enjoy and use your machines to the fullest for the next 2 years and you will have no regets on the machines you have purchased or will be buying to use productively for the next 2 years. Stop worring and enjoy what it can do for you now!
Someone mentioned that the value of macs will drop, but that is nothing new. Any computer that is more than 12 months drop in price substantially. You would also see a difference in OS in 12 month period. Look at OSX 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4.
Would you install 10.2 on your machine now? I would say no. So regardless whether it is PPC or intel, it does not matter. When it ages, they all become obsolete.
As for the hardware purchase, get it now if you need it for school and work. If you can be more productive, buy the machine so you save time or earn more money. This is not for people who just want a faster computer and use work as an excuse to get a faster machine. That is "wanting" not "needing"
As for the hobbiest and techies who is "wanting," I'm sure they can wait unless they want to play games with faster refresh rate. But holding off for 2 years for a new machine to relase is inflicting self punishment.
Just enjoy and use your machines to the fullest for the next 2 years and you will have no regets on the machines you have purchased or will be buying to use productively for the next 2 years. Stop worring and enjoy what it can do for you now!
A sad SAD day.
I too was in denial!
Abercrombieboy, I got a serious feeling that PowerMacs & other last gen iMac G5s before both goto Intel cpu's will be selling like MAD. ebay prices will skyrocket. Its a serious turnaround event in history for Apple.
I got this sinking feeling, that everyone in the computer industry is against Apple. Heres my point: Apple, IBM, Motorola all formed the AIM Alliance; the 1st generation of cpu's from Motorola insulted Apple Corporation & its customers (remember the promised 450/500/550Mhz cpu's, instead shipped 400/450/500Mhz at the same price)!! The second generation was very powerful and made incredible headlines - Intel even felt ashamed of their own offerings at the time. Ever since then, stagnation - no matter how you look at it. Same repeat story with IBM: 1st generation was ok & impressive, the second generation was sweet - although Steve & customers got screwed (instead of 1st generation like with Moto/Freescale). Now we're going with Intel??
Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.
I'm still buying an iMac rev B but to which date should I expect new software, being developed for the G5; will we still see "G5 cpu running at 1.8Ghz required" ?? We barely see it for G3 cpu's.
I too was in denial!
Abercrombieboy, I got a serious feeling that PowerMacs & other last gen iMac G5s before both goto Intel cpu's will be selling like MAD. ebay prices will skyrocket. Its a serious turnaround event in history for Apple.
I got this sinking feeling, that everyone in the computer industry is against Apple. Heres my point: Apple, IBM, Motorola all formed the AIM Alliance; the 1st generation of cpu's from Motorola insulted Apple Corporation & its customers (remember the promised 450/500/550Mhz cpu's, instead shipped 400/450/500Mhz at the same price)!! The second generation was very powerful and made incredible headlines - Intel even felt ashamed of their own offerings at the time. Ever since then, stagnation - no matter how you look at it. Same repeat story with IBM: 1st generation was ok & impressive, the second generation was sweet - although Steve & customers got screwed (instead of 1st generation like with Moto/Freescale). Now we're going with Intel??
Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.
I'm still buying an iMac rev B but to which date should I expect new software, being developed for the G5; will we still see "G5 cpu running at 1.8Ghz required" ?? We barely see it for G3 cpu's.
stephenli said:
this is exactly what i hate. SPIN. yesterday, they were the bad guys, now intel is the good guy? steve should change his name to benedict arnold.
Apple software will have to ship in two flavours for the forseeable future. Video production houses, graphic designers - they're not going to upgrade all of their systems just to be able to run the latest versions of FCP, Motion, PS, etc. Apple will have to support their core users (not the biggerbetterfaster crowd moaning about the lack of the G5 pB they need for taking notes in class) for at least 5 years. Dropping the media industries in the transition would be commercial suicide.
For the first time in a while I'm not worrying about my new iMac being outdated soon - not when the next systems are going to be a step backwards.
For the first time in a while I'm not worrying about my new iMac being outdated soon - not when the next systems are going to be a step backwards.
I think this thread is supposed to be about the non-Intel based things in the keynote..there is another thread to discuss Intel.
So..wow..another OS upgrade..hopefully at the same time as Longhorn.
What do you think will be the big features in it (besides Intel stuff)?
So..wow..another OS upgrade..hopefully at the same time as Longhorn.
What do you think will be the big features in it (besides Intel stuff)?
I feel full of FUD
For how long will we have native soft for our recently bought PPC Macs? I think this is the biggest problem of all
On the other hand, I see the swich as a logical, evolutionary and well needed step. I bought a Mac for its usability, integration and design regardless of what chips are inside. I only hope PPC native software contiune to be developed for years to come
For how long will we have native soft for our recently bought PPC Macs? I think this is the biggest problem of all
On the other hand, I see the swich as a logical, evolutionary and well needed step. I bought a Mac for its usability, integration and design regardless of what chips are inside. I only hope PPC native software contiune to be developed for years to come
Prom1 said:I too was in denial!
Abercrombieboy, I got a serious feeling that PowerMacs & other last gen iMac G5s before both goto Intel cpu's will be selling like MAD. ebay prices will skyrocket. Its a serious turnaround event in history for Apple.
Intel will surely make good on 1st/2nd generation cpu's, but when customers aren't switching in hopeful numbers to Apple, or shall I say when customers dont upgrade quickly on Mac, the cork-screw from Intel will begin. Jobs basically said that current products are not the best hardware for their customers; so when this rollover doesnt pan out then they will have nowhere to turn. I'm hoping for the best but I worry.
I'm still buying an iMac rev B but to which date should I expect new software, being developed for the G5; will we still see "G5 cpu running at 1.8Ghz required" ?? We barely see it for G3 cpu's.
Just to comment on three statements you made. I don't see G5 values skyrocketing I still see them dropping. People will worry what they are buying will NOT be able to run future generations of OSX and programs.
The positive for Apple going with Intel is that they will be running the exact system that Dell, Gateway, Sony, eMachines, etc are running. There will always be tons of demand for an Intel chip because all the PC makers use them. This will solve the problem with Apple falling behind on chip speeds once and for all.
I LOVE my iMac G5. It is fast and works very well. I think it is still a great computer, but I hesitate to fully embrace your decision to buy one right now knowing there is a completely new one in a year or less.
Last, my own comment. We won't have anything but this transistion to talk about over the next year. I doubt we will see any PowerPC improvements. Apple has surely stopped funding all PPC development and is spending all their money and time on Intel.
They could come out with a 2Ghz Powerbook G4 tomorrow or a 3Ghz PowerMac and they would not sell worth a darn, so why waste the money on upgrades?
mac-er said:
www.dell.com
That should give you an idea of what big features will be coming on it. Basically what you see there in a nicer box running Mac OSX.
Abercrombieboy said:
Apple like ALL computer companies are continually making faster and faster hardware advancements. Look at it this way, after you bought your iMac G5, apple came out with a faster 2.0 GHZ version that has NOTHING to do with Intel. Don't feel stupid in regards to your decision, and people needing a new Macintosh, don't punish yourself because you are afraid of change.
I may be one of few people with this thought, but I doubt that the prices on G5 and G4 systems will tank any time soon.
Apple sounds committed to making the transition smooth, and to keep the current and future customer base happy. Apple has learned from its transition from 68k to 60X, and again from 60X to G3. If ANY company can do this well, it will be Apple. They have the most experience in massive changes.
Badradio said:
no it will ship with Fat binaries, and utilize technology that apple is working on to make the software run on BOTH intel and PowerPC chips. This topic (of sorts) is noted on the keynote coverage.
Abercrombieboy said:
I find your logic flawed, while I do understand your position. However, 1-2 years is a long time from now. I would purchase those machines if they were available tomorrow. And then in 1-2 years, as I'm willing to bet most users would do, purchase the new Intel based Apples then and recycle the older machines. I honestly think a lot of people are WAY overreacting to this announcement. That's just my opinion though.