WWDC: New LCD Displays

[MacQuest]

no, you cannot.

Yes you can. Watch the keynote and Steve references the ability to connect 2 - 30" displays together giving you over 8 million pixels.

He specifically states that the card has DUAL, dual link dvi connections. No that's not a typo.

From Apple's site and describing the 6800:

"...Even better, it can drive two 30-inch displays, giving you the ultimate creative canvas..."

 

[Benjamin]

From Apple's site and describing the 6800:

"...Even better, it can drive two 30-inch displays, giving you the ultimate creative canvas..."

and more about the 6800 dual form the apple store site.

"It is the first card available to support the DVI standard dual link digital signal specification from the two DVI ports it features. This capability is required to drive the new 30-inch LCD, high resolution Apple Cinema HD display. The combination of a GeForce 6800 Ultra with a dual processor Power Mac G5 driving two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays is the definitive tool for the creative professional."

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9593G/A

 

[MacQuest]

And that's a good scenario (never done it before, but I know that looks draw people's attention to Macs). But I am not sure for that price, I don't really know yet.

Trust me. LOTS of pc users buy Apple displays. It wasn't even a problem last year [before the 20" was introduced] when the 23" HD Cinema Display sold for $3,499 AND they had to buy the DVI - ADC apapter for $149.

 

[Hlau]

Was I alone in hoping for iMac like arms for the new displays?

And yeah, av and component input would have been great.

 

[CholEoptera36]

in terms of thinking different, is this a question of one step back / one step forward?

or am i/we just expecting too much from this one product?

I think it could be taken as a step foward or step back, just depends on the person and if you personally like the upgrade or not. I think it's not much of an inpiration though, IMO they don't seem too different from the PC LCD's to me. Kool looking no doubt, but perhaps not what you'd expect from Apple. The previous displays looked more like an Apple style then these do, but perhaps in a way the G5 too seems to have a PC resemblence somewhat too. I think that's what they were going for in matching these monitors to the metal look of G5. And I think we're putting a lot on the monitors too cause nothing else hardware upgrade speaking was released. It's really the only thing to talk about except Tiger, so perhaps too much thought is going into the monitors.

 

[w00tmaster]

So the 17" old-style Display seems to only be available in the education store.

They don't think ANYONE with a G5 will want a smaller and/or relatively low-cost option??

I guess it is time to start finding out who makes the best third-party displays, especially if they are aluminum style. Formacs are G4 styled, but nice. Who else?

Scroll down a little on the monitor page in the store, see anything? There is an add for the 17" monitor. The only difference is that it isn't in the main section of the store, you gotta dig a little.

 

[JFreak]

The "old" style apple displays run/ran on ADC, which probably (?) supports higher resolution than dvi.

adc connector is just power + dvi + usb all running in single wire. nothing more than eyecandy

 

[Mac3001]

My 2 Cents

Apple released new Displays today... ending a long wait.

The new screens sport a new adjustable aluminum case design as depicted by ThinkSecret's artist renditions. Meanwhile, last minute notes about pricing proved to be correct with the new designs coming in at the following prices:

30" - $3299.00
23" - $1999.00
20" - $1299.00

The new displays offer a single unified cable coming from the monitors which then split into DVI, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Power connectors.

Apple Store has the updated monitors for sale.

I think its hard to really say what is 'expensive' as it really depends on the individuals finanaces so you can only really compare to other similar displays. Im pretty sure Apple are not aiming the 30" display at the regular mac user. It just makes us regular wage earners green with envy though.

 

[phonic pol]

Where's the apple x factor?

I think the display sizes are excellent, it shows an upward trend in size and no doubt lower prices down the line.

I'm dissapointed with the aesthetic design though. Their nice but lack that apple magic that we know and love!

Where's the apple magic gone?

 

[phonic pol]

'Eye Candy' is incredibly important!

adc connector is just power + dvi + usb all running in single wire. nothing more than eyecandy

Don't underate eye candy! It's what art is all about. There are some of us who find the lack of aesthetic beauty offensive. I think that's one of the key reasons why creative pro's favour mac's, becuase the art and technology mix is so damn good!

 

[daveg5]

component video and svideo are ANALOG formats and apple displays are ALL-DIGITAL, which is actually one of apple's marketing points.

did you know that many of the competing brands' lcd displays - despite the dvi connection - are in fact analog inside? that is possible because the dvi connector is a hybrid plug which carries both analog and digital signals, and some manufacturers have chosen the cheaper way (analog, that is) which as we know has some drawbacks.

DaveG5
I would think the monitor that has both analogue and digital i/o would be more versatile and cost more not less. With those cant you hook up dvd, hddvd, tv tuners, hdtv cable and satellite boxes, or use in all digital mode for the computer, correct me if I am mistaken.
As the audio on powermac G5 has both digital and analogue outputs, isn't that better than just digital alone, by giving you more choices, yet not loosing quality when in digital mode.?

 

[jsw]

Not necessarily dissagreeing, but you lost me... How does 2x17 not = 34? 4x17=68. two 17" monitors should be 34" I guess? But you said it takes 4 17" monitors to equal 34", just curious how?

Note that the monitor sizes are diagonal. A 17" monitor with a 4:3 aspect ratio would have a width of 13.6" and a height of 10.2". Two of them - and we're only counting the actual display part, neglecting borders - would have a width of 27.2" and the same height of 10.2", leading to a diagonal of ~29".

However, such a display would have a total screen area of ~277 square inches, whereas a 4:3 aspect ratio 34" monitor would have a screen area of ~555 square inches - twice as big (a 4:3 34" monitor has a width of 27.2" but a height of 20.4").

Widescreen monitors have slightly different numbers - a widescreen monitor with the same diagonal as a 4:3 monitor has less screen area. But the basics still apply. The 30" Apple display has a screen area of, by my extrapolations, ~410 square inches.

Of course, pixel density also matters. A lot. If your screen size is the same, but you have half the pixels, you're still behind.

A good 17" 4:3 monitor will do 1280x1024. Two of them would yield ~2.62M pixels. Pretty good. The Apple has 4.1M pixels. In one place. With no border in between.

 

[jsw]

sorry for being a dumbass but why does the cabble split into usb and fire wire??? do hey just plug into the mac??

You're not being a dumbass.

For the sake of beauty, Apple displays have one cable coming out the back. It just looks better. The ADC spec - now abandoned - was able to supply power, video, and USB over that one cable.

Now that Apple has gone to mainstream DVI, this has changed. DVI supports video. Period. No power, no USB, no Firewire. So, in order to use a standard DVI port, Apple needs to split the one, beautiful cable coming from the monitor into the separate ones when it gets to the Mac. This is so it conforms to the DVI spec and anyone - PC users included - can use it.

 

[Indiana Mac]

-change to dvi, yet it still won't connect to all of apple's own computers, ie ibook.

These displays whould be overkill for the ibooks, espescially considering they would normally be limited to 1024x768 in mirror mode(with out the hack of course). In my view that's a design flaw in the ibook not the monitor, besides most ibook owners would/are consider this out of their price leauge anyway.(my self included)

 

[jsw]

Yeah, I noticed. I also noticed the FW and USB ports are on the back of the panel? Kinda rains on that wall hanging parade, eh?
Why not put the ports on the bottom of the panel? Wall hanging parade, commence.

First of all, the wall mount has room for the cables. So, yes, you can hang it and still connect the cables.

However, people - and businesses - who are going to hang the monitor on the wall are most likely not going to hang ugly cables down from it. They'll plug them into the computer itself or a hub. Not the beautiful monitor hanging on the wall.

But, if they did decide to plug them in, at least they'd look slightly less ugly from the back, especially since someone wallmounting it would probably put a port in the wall behind the display with an outlet farther down - hiding the cables completely. Can't do that with front or bottom mounted cables - and bottom mounted cables are also more likely to fall out over time.

And anyone who wants to plug cables into the FRONT of the monitor - not lazyrighteye, but others in this thread - have no sense of monitor beauty. They should buy a Dell. I mean, come on! It'd be just plain ugly with them plugged into the front. Seriously, I think even the fattest and laziest of us could maybe - just maybe - reach around to plug the cable into the back.

 

[stuBCN75]

ok. new displays look good to me. nothing special but not bad at all.

i am thinking about getting either a 20" or the 23" when i buy a new G5 v.soon. I just cant afford the 30"

I am a motion graphics / broadcast graphic designer, so ideally the 23" is perfect. HD compliant and all. Are the new and old 23" the same price ?

I actually prefer the older styling, I'm just not too keen on this metal look. I think it is a bit tacky IMHO.

ok. Are there any good alternatives to the 23" Apple display. Anything that can match the price, brightness, resolution and ports etc. ?? I have had a look around but can't find anything yet that can match the Apple displays point for point and on cost.

If any one can help ?? I want to spend some $$ soon but can't decide on the display yet.

 

[uv23]

I've never liked the idea of a monitor as a hub. The cable clutter would ruin an otherwise clean design. I already use a tucked-away USB KVM to share keyboard/mouse/printer/scanner between my powerbook and PC. And if I ever get a firewire device, it'll get plugged into the powerbook. I wonder if there will be a cable available for these monitors that just has DVI + power, so you don't have extra USB/firewire cables dangling free.

 

[iGary]

The old 23" and new 23" are the same price.

 

[thatwendigo]

Whine, whine, whine... I'm just waiting for the cries of "Apple's going to go under because of this" before I sit back and consider the Keynote complete.

congrats to apple....it is now once again possible to spend over 15,000 dollars on a single workstation without buying any "accessory" upgrades.

strictly speaking,

dual G5 2.5
load the RAM
dual 30" monitors (along w/obligatory gfx card upgrade)
dual 250gig HDDs

I didn't even have to add a fibre-channel card to get it over 15K.

amazing.

i wonder how clocked-down the 6800 is going to be?

If you pay Apple's prices for RAM, then you're a chump to begin with, but since you want to bring pricing into things:

Alienware MJ-12 4500 Extreme Digital Content Creation Workstation
Dual AMD Opteron 250 2.4ghz
Windows XP Professional
Corsair 3GB PC3200
nVidia Quadro FX 1100 128MB
2x 250GB SATA RAID O
Enermax 550W PSU
2x NEC LCD 3000 30" LCD (Costs $3,350 each - more than Apple - with only 1600 x 1200 resolution, 450cd/m2, 350:1 contrast)
No iLife or other Apple software.
Cost: $12,778

Apple PowerMac G5
Dual IBM PowerPC 970FX 2.5ghz
OS X 10.3
4GB PC 3200
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 256MB
2x 250GB SATA
2x Apple Cinema Display 30" (2560x1600, 270cd/m2, 400:1 contrast)
iLife, built-in security, lack of MS patches, etc.
Cost: $11,522

There are one or two points in the PC's favor, but not $1,200 worth of them. The only thing it has that isn't available on the PowerMac at the moment is that Quadro card, and the display is crappy as hell on resolution while also being more expensive.

Hell you can get a Dell SYSTEM+ 15" flat panel for 499

Dell E152FP 15" Flat Panel
TFT/Active Matrix
Analog RGB
Viewing Angle: 60 H, 50V
Response: 25ms
Brightness: 250
Contrast: 350:1
1024x768

That's a third of the viewing angle, slower response time, and vastly lower resolutions than the Apple screens. Just to be fair, let's look at their more size-comparable monitors...

Delll UltraSharp 2001FP 20" Flat Panel
TFT/Active Matrix
Analog or DVI
Viewing Angle: 85 H and V
Response: 16ms
Brightness: 250
Contrast: 600:1
1600x1200

These displays will most certainly fail just as the Mini did.

That was my first thought when the price was announced. I was just waiting to see what people were going to say here, and boy... I knew what was coming.

 

[jsw]

The old 23" and new 23" are the same price.

I'd expect, though, that pretty soon the old ones will drop in price. Unless people are really attached to the plastic look (or, more likely, ADC), the new one has better specs.

 

[AidenShaw]

FUD alert

did you know that many of the competing brands' lcd displays - despite the dvi connection - are in fact analog inside?

Please cite some examples - which LCD displays with DVI connectors are actually analog displays?


I certainly could not find any on the ViewSonic and Samsung websites, so please back up your claim. They have analog LCDs, but they all use the 15-pin D-sub connector (the traditional VGA plug).


And, BTW, "all-digital" is cheaper than "analog+digital". The LCD panel itself is digital, so you have to add an ADC to the monitor to support analog. The all-digital monitor doesn't need an ADC.

 

[jsw]

Just noticed that the Apple 17" monitor still refers to its ability to connect with one cable to the PowerMac G4. Hmmm. The G5's have been out for a year now. I know the 17" is likely to fade away shortly, but still... could Apple maybe update this? Nit-picking, I know. But, still, it'll connect to anything with ADC. Why not just say "PowerMac" whenever they say "PowerMac G4"?

Hmmmph.

 

[adamfilip]

Can the new graphics card work in a 1.6 G5?

 

[adamfilip]

one thing people seem to note qute pickup. the fact that apple dropped adc in favor for dvi means that there will be more and more graphics cards that can be added to the g5 since it will be less work.. since they only use dvi ports like on all pc Gf cards

im expecting it will only be a difference of driver and not hardware soon

also i Have been reading on tomshardware.com about SLI and the new 6800 cards.. imaging running dual 6800's in your G5!

 

[stukick]

Where can I buy a now outdated Apple Cinema Display with ADC? I can only find the 17" on Apple's site.