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X11 Beta 3, Mac OS X 10.2.5 Seeded, iWorks, Tidbits...

Originally posted by Shadowfax
It's an XFree86 server. it allows you to run unported linux apps inside of OS X...

if you are interested:
The Fink Project.
Apple's X11 info.
Click to expand...
More correctly, it allows you to run app's written to the X Window GUI to run on OS X. They still either have to be ported to/compiled for Darwin/OS X or be run off a Unix/Linux box with your OS X as a remote display.

I use X11 all day long, mainly for ClearCase (a software version control nightmare - I so miss CVS!) tools running on big Sun iron somewhere in the server dungeon.

I also can run the RedHat GUI tools to configure my Linux web server when I don't feel like using the comand line.

Speaking of which - are there any Linux geeks here that know if you can make X11 host a GNOME or KDE desktop from a remote Linux box. I can get individual app's to come up, but trying to run "gnome-session" generates some error like, "Only one WM can be running at a time." I assume that the X11 app (X Server) is reporting that it's window manager is running already. We use Exceed on Windows at work and you can tell Exceed to use the WM from the Unix box, or to run it's own.
 
OSX 10.2.5 Bluetooth Update

Hopefully Bluetooth in 10.2.5 will be expanded with functionality & drivers for PCMCIA Bluetooth Cards. I think a lot of owners of pre-Al Powerbooks like me are waiting for that. I hate this dumb USB Dongle, I want to use my 3com PCMCIA Bluetooth Card with retractable antenna in my Powerbook G4 Pismo (Powerlogix modified)
Cheers,

Ahmed
 
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Speaking of which - are there any Linux geeks here that know if you can make X11 host a GNOME or KDE desktop from a remote Linux box. I can get individual app's to come up, but trying to run "gnome-session" generates some error like, "Only one WM can be running at a time." I assume that the X11 app (X Server) is reporting that it's window manager is running already. We use Exceed on Windows at work and you can tell Exceed to use the WM from the Unix box, or to run it's own.
Click to expand...

you should be able to, i think. i don't know about the remote part, but you need to adjust your .xinitrc (or make one) that looks like this:

source /sw/bin/init.sh
quartz-wm --only-proxy
/sw/bin/startkde

of course you can get your init.sh from wherever you have one, but you have to start quartz-wm as a proxy or it will conflict with your other wm. alternately, you can just *not* open quartz wm at all, but you don't get any of those faster perks.

i could be way off, but you should be able to run your KDE or GNOME from just about anywhere on X11.

a screenshot, sorry for distorting the page:

KBeautiful.jpg
 
Re: for Windows too?

Originally posted by nodmonkey
Does anyone suspect that if this new office suite of applications really does have benefits over MS Office then it may be ported to Windows?

Initial reaction is obviously "no" because it would have no power to attract switchers (to Apple hardware and other software/services) if available on both Windows and MacOS. But it would give Apple presence in the PC world over and above just Quicktime, which could always stir interest and inquiry into the company. Just to give Apple more market presence, really. Not to mention the market that exists and could be exploited for a cheaper Office program that is compatible (mostly) with MS Office.
----
This is a good question and an interesting dilemma. I personally think that knowing Apple, and more importantly, Jobs, the likelihood of a port is slim. Like you said, the point of all of these applications is to get switchers. Let's say you have 100 people in the market for a $1500 computer. If Apple's software can convince ten percent of them, Apple grosses $15000. If the suite costs $300, Apple would have to sell 50 of them to PC people in order to get the same response.

Of course there is always the idea of breaking into the business market, but I think we need to all realize that that is also an almost impossible task...

Then again, the iPod was very successful in the PC world...Apple could try to push its luck with this, but I don't think we'd get another iPod.

Oh, and btw, I'd just like to let that 14 and 9 month year old know something:
I have some experience with some foolish people thinking that I'm intelligent...I turned 16 in November and I just started in a 7-year med program at Northwestern...But it's probably sheer luck, the encouragement of parents and teachers, and Someone's blessings that got me this far, not my own master ability...The point is, don't be so full of yourself: You're not going to make any friends by posting in a signature that you got an 800 in SAT-I Math in 8th Grade. Kudos, very impressive, but as one kid who does reasonably well (no, not THAT well) on standardized tests to another, don't tout it so much and don't put so much stock in them--they're great to get into college, and not always effective in that, but serve as no real indicators of anytning else in life.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by nuckinfutz
ColoJohnBoy-

When did Jaguar actually ship. I know Apple released a Press release last July but did Jaguar actually ship in July?
Click to expand...

It started shipping in the second half of August. I remember that because I went on a small vacation in late August, and when I came back, my copy of Jaguar was waiting for me when I got back.
 
Re: Re: for Windows too?

I think a PC port of a newer version of AppleWorks (or whatever it will be called) would be an excellent idea. If Apple is trying to become more of a software company, it would probably do it well to make some headway into the PC market.

Granted, Apple probably will have to analyze whether or not making a PC port would be cost effective, but if so, why not make it then? It might bring over a few new Mac converts, but I wouldn't expect a ton. I think Apple would make more money by having the PC iWorks rather than just showing it and HOPING that someone would then decide to buy a Mac and the software.

Also consider that the return on software is probably a lot higher than hardware is. Software tends to be a box with a CD, and MAYBE a manual, coming to the grand total of a few dollars (or pounds or euros), whereas there is a decently large parts and labor cost on hardware.

Originally posted by themadchemist
Originally posted by nodmonkey
Does anyone suspect that if this new office suite of applications really does have benefits over MS Office then it may be ported to Windows?

Initial reaction is obviously "no" because it would have no power to attract switchers (to Apple hardware and other software/services) if available on both Windows and MacOS. But it would give Apple presence in the PC world over and above just Quicktime, which could always stir interest and inquiry into the company. Just to give Apple more market presence, really. Not to mention the market that exists and could be exploited for a cheaper Office program that is compatible (mostly) with MS Office.
----
This is a good question and an interesting dilemma. I personally think that knowing Apple, and more importantly, Jobs, the likelihood of a port is slim. Like you said, the point of all of these applications is to get switchers. Let's say you have 100 people in the market for a $1500 computer. If Apple's software can convince ten percent of them, Apple grosses $15000. If the suite costs $300, Apple would have to sell 50 of them to PC people in order to get the same response.

Of course there is always the idea of breaking into the business market, but I think we need to all realize that that is also an almost impossible task...

Then again, the iPod was very successful in the PC world...Apple could try to push its luck with this, but I don't think we'd get another iPod.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Names

I think good names are:
Type
Data
Taxes :p

And I've heard M$ are gonna change their apps names to:
Word -> WordPad Enhaced(Some more options for 200MB)
Excel -> Spread s hit
Access -> Too many menus(also called Toomm)
Outlook-> "I can do so many things that I don't do one well"
 
Originally posted by Nermal
I don't think they'll call it Document. With Keynote, you make presentations, but the app isn't called Presentation. If Apple use the same naming scheme then their word processor may be called Letter, or Report, or some other type of document you can make with it.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this when the first 'document' rumour came about. I'd like the suite to be called iWork to go with iLife, and consist of Report word processor, Keynote presintation and Forcast spreadsheet with filemaker pro db. I'd have like something like a MySQL or postgreSQL db with an apple developed front end so it was as easy to use as the likes of Access and Applescripting but as I'vr found out Apple actually own filemakr and they wont kill this. I'd also like mail, Safari, sherlock, iChat with video/voice chat - maybe iPhone and address book to become more intergrated and be branded something like iComm or iCommunicate and the music download service to be something like iPlay, so you have somthing promatable like I work, i play, i communicate, iLife.
 
Re: Sweet!

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
I'm glad Apple is taking the iWorks step. I hope it's compatible with MS Office docs, but with greater ease than AppleWorks. I've been using Office X for too long - It's a fine program, but I'd rather give money to Apple than to Microsoft.

With 10.3 Panther, Apple should wait awhile. Working at the Apple Store I heard countless gripes from people about having to shell out $130 for the latest and greatest. The should set a date past the one year for Jaguar - that way Panther will probably be better received.

And good about the 17" PowerBooks. Hopefully this means they'll introduce the new 15" PB soon :)
Click to expand...

Personally, I think Appleworks may still have a role. iWorks (Should be called iOffice or AppleOffice. Sounds too low end) is going to end costing between $150-$200 and it will be overkill for the average consumer. There's a lot of people who want a low cost multi-purpose app.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the FileMaker team had something to do with the new database app.
 
Many people had speculated that Apple would create a version of OpenOffice that would use Aqua.

Consider, for a moment, that they might be adapting KOffice the way they adapted Konqueror to become Safari. Perhaps, Keynote is already based on KPresenter.
 
I like something a bit obtuse for the word processing app, like

Serif


For the spreadsheet, how about

Cell

For the database, how about

File Maker Pro

44 yrs, 1 week
 
I don't think Apple will port the office suite to Windows. It stands to reason that the poor schlubbs who don't have the guts to switch from Windows won't have the guts to switch from Office.

But I hope this isn't just a rebranding of Appleworks. "Works" implies a slimmed down, consumer-level (not professional) suite (Appleworks, ClarisWorks, MSWorks). ThinkSecret didn't say this would take Office head-on.

If iWorks does try to be a professional suite, I wonder what exciting, creative new features they will bring to the word processor. Consider: Apple doesn't usually just make their own version of something, they make it better. Keynote added beautiful themes and animation. So what groundbreaking things can you do with a word processor? Will beautiful color themes be enough? Maybe they'll make a better .pdf exporter than Adobe has thus far given us in OS X, so that you can use themes, perhaps even animated ones, in your electronic documents, if not your printed ones.
 
I rather liked the name Ledger for the spreedsheet someone mentioned earlier.

For the database, how about: relativity.

If Apple wants a serious database app for the Mac, they need to create one (or update FMPro) to be able to import Access files and have the same programming.

Hmm, an VB -> Applescript interpretor, maybe?

theFly
 
The name "Document" is perfect from a marketing point of view. When someone sees the software on the shelf called "Document," there is no doubt what that program does. Also, it feeds off the success of "Word," because the word "document" is familiar (.doc).

So the name is simple. So what? It is a perfect name for a word processor. I think that Apple will find this program to very successful because of the name (assuming it is a solid application).
 
... but "iWorks" on the other hand sounds too "entry-level consumer" for me. But then again, that may be who their target consumer is.
 
Originally posted by theFly
I rather liked the name Ledger for the spreedsheet someone mentioned earlier.
Click to expand...

Thanks :D

For the database, how about: relativity.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I Like it!

If Apple wants a serious database app for the Mac, they need to create one (or update FMPro) to be able to import Access files and have the same programming.

Hmm, an VB -> Applescript interpretor, maybe?

theFly
Click to expand...

Thinks for a moment... OMG... An Applescriptable Database Application would ROCK. I can just imagine setting up a database that launches programs to do work at scheduled times all day long :D

23 yrs, 6 months... heh
 
Originally posted by Rincewind42
Thinks for a moment... OMG... An Applescriptable Database Application would ROCK. I can just imagine setting up a database that launches programs to do work at scheduled times all day long :D
Click to expand...
Is the ":D" meant to say you are being sarcastic?

OS X/Darwin already can do this via cron jobs as it is.
 
My main issue with iWorks as the name is, as others have mentioned, that it sounds rather entry level. However, Apple may be aiming to change that stigma, because it certainly doesn't seem that the software is going to be entry level. If we look at the one example that we have so far, Keynote, it is not only not entry level, it is aiming to go head-to-head with PowerPoint. If Keynote is indeed going to be part of this suite, then it makes sense that the rest of the suite will be aimed at going head-to-head with the other MS Office applications.

Here's a thought for the name: PowerOffice -> it runs on PowerPCs. :D
 
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Is the ":D" meant to say you are being sarcastic?

OS X/Darwin already can do this via cron jobs as it is.
Click to expand...

From what I understand of cron jobs however, there is no UI, so you'd have to do a lot more work to get things done that required a program with a UI. Of course, I could be wrong... =).
 
Pffft, Document...

Who needs it, long live simple text...err...I mean, TextEdit!!
 
New alternative names for the office suite could be....

iDea (With a light bulb logo)
iCan (not a toilet or, rear)
iVision (sort of like iDea)
iMworkinhere (for New Yorkers)
iSuite (sounds logical)
iDoc (to go with the whole "i" thing)
iRate (for people who are fed up with the wole thing)
iNeedtogetthisdonebeforefourinthemorningsoicangetupandgettoworkontime

or maybe just Text.
Actually I think Apple is probably going to phase out naming everything
starting with an "i" because it's getting old.
Just be happy they didn't name Safari iBrouse
 
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