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It’s not free. Apple charges developers a yearly fee.

That's membership fee for being part of the developer program.

Also, there is nothing wrong in charging both a yearly fee and other fees in combination like percentage of gross income, percentage of net profit, per API call or almost every other conceivable way.

If Apple wanted to find 200 different criteria to charge for the same app, that would also be fine.

Between two commercial actors, almost no limitation should be made on how one can exploit the other or vice versa.
 
Wasn’t the API licensed for use by devs already?

No.

If a developer wants be part of the Apple developer program, only then to they need to agree to pay up to 30% of revenue from their applications under certain circumstances.
 
Syncs across cloud, PC, and Xbox. I have been able to play Forza Horizon on my iPhone, Xbox, and PC and it just picks up where I left off. xCloud is still new but they are working out the kinks pretty quickly.

If you game, GamePass is a bargain no matter how you play these days. You can usually find some discounts to help keep the cost around $10 a month.

Microsoft rewards and you can game for next to nothing.
 
Jezzz. This is classic double dipping …

There isn't anything wrong with that. Also as a end user I am licensed to use software, not APIs.

Would it be a bad thing for you or someone else to also have an xCloud or Stadia app in our $1.2k devices? Why is it good for you to be forced to use web browser instead of an app in your $1k iPhone … because Apple wants even more $$$ … heck in my $2k iPad Pro?

Why Why Why?

So please explain to us ignorant customers why you want to pay for the same thing more than once?

As and end user I don't care who gets the money If I don't get it. I don't care about developers. They are only a mean to and end.

I do care about property rights. Microsoft should be able to fully control their property. So should Apple.

If Microsoft doesn't want to be in the App Store, there should be no way for Apple to force Microsoft to sell its software there. Microsoft just said no, and Apple had no way to compel them.
 

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Assuming you have a good connection is there a noticeable difference in quality over if you play on an Xbox?
 
Personally, I think in its current form, Xcloud gaming is very hit and miss.

I have had one or two sessions whereby the session went very smoothly - no lag or anything.

But - I have also had some sessions whereby gaming lag and controller lag was very evident.

Last night, I tried playing Halo CE on my laptop (connected via an ethernet cable to my internet) with my Xbox controller connected via bluetooth and it was very laggy. I would input a move on the controller and you would literally see the movement translated in game 2 to 3 seconds later - the game was unplayable in this state. I then tried the same game on my 2020 iPad Air and experienced the very same controller and game lag.

I realise Xcloud is still in Beta but issues like these just make games unplayable.....
 
Personally, I think in its current form, Xcloud gaming is very hit and miss.

I have had one or two sessions whereby the session went very smoothly - no lag or anything.

But - I have also had some sessions whereby gaming lag and controller lag was very evident.

Last night, I tried playing Halo CE on my laptop (connected via an ethernet cable to my internet) with my Xbox controller connected via bluetooth and it was very laggy. I would input a move on the controller and you would literally see the movement translated in game 2 to 3 seconds later - the game was unplayable in this state. I then tried the same game on my 2020 iPad Air and experienced the very same controller and game lag.

I realise Xcloud is still in Beta but issues like these just make games unplayable.....
Have had similar experiences in sports games (MLB the Show, NBA2K). It’s frustrating. Not seeing it when I use Remote Play as opposed to XCloud gaming. Remote Play has been pretty decent.

Brian
 
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Have had similar experiences in sports games (MLB the Show, NBA2K). It’s frustrating. Not seeing it when I use Remote Play as opposed to XCloud gaming. Remote Play has been pretty decent.

Brian

.....I don't see the point of Remote Play - don't you need the console to be powered on to use this? In which case, you may as well just play the game on your console, no?
 
.....I don't see the point of Remote Play - don't you need the console to be powered on to use this? In which case, you may as well just play the game on your console, no?
If I am not mistaken Remote Play actually allows you to not be on your home network and play a game still. Even though according to Apples rules it is supposed to be limited to working when on the same network.
 
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(1) There isn't anything wrong with that. (2) Also as a end user I am licensed to use software, not APIs.

(1) Well, there is. Its a practice frowned upon and in certain cases illegal.
(2) No way apps can work without access to OS APIs. Without apps, the device does not actually work. Splitting between the two its nothing but a splitting air exercise.

As and end user I don't care who gets the money If I don't get it. I don't care about developers. They are only a mean to and end.

Well that is your stance. But as a customer I do care to whom the money goes to. For instance, when I buy a device from Apple I do expect the money to go to Apple as I expect their product and services to improve, maybe not all but very much the lion share. It is just not me that thinks that way, Apple is paying Foxconn, the company does expect some money to go to enabling better work conditions at it reflects in the quality of their products. If that was not the case, they would not buy from them probably …. When I buy a diamond I do expect not to be a blood diamond hence not going to bad people …

I’m a consumer not a consumerist.

I do care about property rights. Microsoft should be able to fully control their property. So should Apple.

So do I. There are 3 properties at stake that belong to different business entities. The device you have bought, Apple technology and services (sold and licensed) … and the devs digital services and apps (dev technology, sold and licensed). The problem at hand is when ones property intertwines, intersects with others properties … each ones full control stops in those intersections.

The cases of contention lately are about these intersections within the Apple ecossystem considering their market power and their policies.

If Microsoft doesn't want to be in the App Store, there should be no way for Apple to force Microsoft to sell its software there. Microsoft just said no, and Apple had no way to compel them.

Well, Microsoft does want to serve their customers using whatever devices with apps as it seams. They also have multiple apps in the App Store. It also seams that customers want to use MS digital services in the devices they bought, including iOS. Not just MS, … Spotify, Google, Epic …..

So it is not so much that Apple is compelling anyone not use Apple tech quite the contrary if you look around. But that through their tech its seams that its cherry picking fences between customers devices and third party tech, ways of payment and so on, forcing business models to third parties, all arguing publicly that such measures are down to security and privacy issues, not $$$.

For instance when you buy a device and license its OS you agree with licensing agreement. Yet this agreement and governance policies changes unilaterally by software companies during the lifetime of the devices and businesses around them. So you are in the weak position of either accept your property to be devalued to yourself or accept the new agreement. The same with when say you license the user an API … it may change after you invested building the software, so either face the loss or agree … Those unilateral changes may devalue your property greatly after the fact in ways not agreed initially …

This flexibility is very important for the software market to work … of course changes in agreement are necessary to adapt with the flow of reality, improved procedures, yet it can be easily abused to force ones $hand$ over the others in the intersection. Hence watch dogs are necessary as it may be considered an unfair business practice.

Here is an actual example … demanding each third party game stream to be deployed separately as an app is quite a new requirement as it seams in the App Store, its unprecedented. They did not require that to either Spotify or Netflix (When Spotify started Apple was not in the audio streaming business). No customer or developer ever signed such constraint when they trained, bought or develop their app for their customers devices. The end result is customer don’t have access to these apps, they need to use a web browser, yet they payed 1k plus for the device … so on and so forth.

This would not be so much of a problem if iOS market share was 10%, but at 50% holds some power over the intersection of multiple properties it may be. A lot of money invested by customer in devices and by third parties in creating apps and digital services for their customers.

Its a very complex subject matter, the intersection of properties.

Anyway, a bit tired of this subject. It will all be sorted out in time. No worries.
 
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I have long been waiting for this service. Not knowing when it would actually come to iOS, during prime days I just bought a Fire Tablet (10 inch), which I got this weekend. When I saw this on MacRumors, I thought I would likely send the Fire Tablet back. However, I tried it on my iPad and it was horrible. Connection not strong and game play is jumpy. Tried it immediately again on the Fire tablet (exact same place in the room only a minute after logging off of the iPad) and it was 1000x better experience on the Fire Tablet. I am not sure if it is because the program on Android is much better than streaming on iOS or maybe we have been overestimating how good Apple products are (and I am someone with 5 iPhones in the household, 3 iPads, 2 iMacs, 1 Mac mini, 2 Apple TVs, and 3 Mac Laptops), at least in terms of hardware.
 
I had another go on this last night on my iPhone 12 with an Xbox controller connected via Bluetooth - there wasn't as much lag last night (played Halo CE) so the game was playable.

Its very hit and miss though - its literally pot luck if you'll get a good stream or not.
 
.....I don't see the point of Remote Play - don't you need the console to be powered on to use this? In which case, you may as well just play the game on your console, no?
Console remains in the low powered mode state. I can use remote play in and out of the house, just like Game Pass. I think the biggest difference is that you have to have purchased the games. But it uses the XBox as its own “server” and the experience is better than Game Pass.
 
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I played a decent amount of Halo CE (The Master Chief Collection) over the weekend, on my 2020 iPad Air, without too many issues. There was some lag but wasn't too bad.

Playing driving games however (Forza Horizon 4) is VERY problematic with lag though - you move the thumbstick on the controller to steer your car but this then takes a good 1-2 seconds to display in game meaning you can never control your car properly...!!
 
I am really surprised, for all of the hate MS gets here, that folks here would willingly use their services.
 
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I am really surprised, for all of the hate MS gets here, that folks here would willingly use their services.

That’s an interesting point you bring up. I think the dislike for MS is more often found with the typical long time Mac users, a group that contains tons of switchers, folks that don’t like Windows due to their experience with it.

On the other hand, other users grow up with Xbox and maybe no long term PC history and these users just like the gaming experience offered by MS.
 
I am really surprised, for all of the hate MS gets here, that folks here would willingly use their services.
Not surprising at all to me, really. On the internet, hate gets attention. It rarely has to be rational. Start a thread with something you “hate” (but you don’t really hate) and see how many updates it gets! Like, those darned rounded corners on iPad icons, am I right? :D
 
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Am tempted to try one of these streaming games services but each of them have a kind of meh selection.
 
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