Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)

[Heat_Fan89]

Considering the Switch outsold the Xbox One 3:1 yeah. Microsoft's current strategy just really isn't working. Power isn't everything. You need a reason to pick up the hardware and Nintendo offers that via. good exclusives and flexible form factor. Xbox offers...? Game Pass? They don't really have exclusives anymore with everything hitting PC and the PS5 versions often outperform so there's little reason to pick up an Xbox as it stands.

I have to concur that Microsoft at best has a very confusing strategy and at worse has no strategy at all besides Game Pass. This is coming from someone who was a huge XBOX fan starting with the original back in 2001. Microsoft back then had a strategy which was to build the XBOX brand and push their exclusives. Back then Microsoft even had their own sports franchises competing with Sony's 989 Sports and EA Sports. They had killer RPG's like Bioware's Jade Empire and other RPG's to offer an alternative to JRPG's found on the PlayStation 2. Then they released Forza Motorsport.

Today it's all about Game Pass and their exclusives have been underwhelming to say the least. Forza Motorsport on the latest consoles has been panned by XBOX gamers along with Redfall and Starfield. Then their #1 surprise hit Hi-Fi Rush suffered the axe by Microsoft's bean counters because the game didn't sell enough units. So they shutdown the studio.

So it begs the question, what is the real strategy for the XBOX division? Is it to just promote Game Pass and buy up studios to offer more games on their subscription service?

Meanwhile Nintendo has a strategy and it's eggs are in their 1st party games. They made a smart move by encouraging third party developers and publishers to use theie eShop.

Sony this gen has also lost some of its way as well. They have been criticized for not developing more AAA titles as they did in the PS3 and PS4 era.

 

[mattspace]

Considering the Switch outsold the Xbox One 3:1 yeah. Microsoft's current strategy just really isn't working. Power isn't everything. You need a reason to pick up the hardware and Nintendo offers that via. good exclusives and flexible form factor. Xbox offers...? Game Pass? They don't really have exclusives anymore with everything hitting PC and the PS5 versions often outperform so there's little reason to pick up an Xbox as it stands.

Windows PCs outsell Macs, Android Phones outsell iPhones, since when has it ever mattered what sells more, especially given Microsoft effectively owns every non-Nintendo game studio? Nintendo sells to people who want *Nintendo* games, but that's a genre all of its own. There's a whole world of people who don't give a toss about Zelda, Mario and whatever other hew hat Malibu Stacy is offering this generation.

The Xbox is a PC for people who don't want to manage a PC to get PC games. It's turnkey in a way the PC (and PC handhelds) will never be. Thats its value proposition.

This thing about exclusives selling consoles is so laughable. No one cares about it any more - people buy the Xbox because it's the home device for gaming that has their Xbox gamer profile on it, for half the price an equivalent gaming PC would cost.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Windows PCs outsell Macs, Android Phones outsell iPhones, since when has it ever mattered what sells more, especially given Microsoft effectively owns every non-Nintendo game studio? Nintendo sells to people who want *Nintendo* games, but that's a genre all of its own. There's a whole world of people who don't give a toss about Zelda, Mario and whatever other hew hat Malibu Stacy is offering this generation.

The Xbox is a PC for people who don't want to manage a PC to get PC games. It's turnkey in a way the PC (and PC handhelds) will never be. Thats its value proposition.

This thing about exclusives selling consoles is so laughable. No one cares about it any more - people buy the Xbox because it's the home device for gaming that has their Xbox gamer profile on it, for half the price an equivalent gaming PC would cost.

The PS5 is just as turnkey as the Xbox Series line, plays 99% of the games on Xbox plus has 10% more from exclusives like FF16 and Ratchet and Clank and costs basically the same. Oh and most games run better on it too. What's the value proposition of the Xbox again? It doesn't actually play PC games, I can't use my Steam games on it like my Steam Deck (it's pretty turnkey btw!) or GOG, or Epic. Just Xbox games with near identical selection to what's on PS5.

And your own post is contradictory. Nobody cares about exclusives anymore but it's also the only thing selling Switches? What? Which is it? Even if people don't care about Nintendo games why should they pick up an Xbox over a PS5?

Sales matter because at a certain point devs skip your platform. Look at the Wii U for example where most 3rd party publishers gave up. Xbox sales have been trending down since the launch of the Xbox One and the current strategy clearly isn't working.

 

[mattspace]

The PS5 is just as turnkey as the Xbox Series line, plays 99% of the games on Xbox plus has 10% more from exclusives like FF16 and Ratchet and Clank and costs basically the same. Oh and most games run better on it too. What's the value proposition of the Xbox again? It doesn't actually play PC games, I can't use my Steam games on it like my Steam Deck (it's pretty turnkey btw!) or GOG, or Epic. Just Xbox games with near identical selection to what's on PS5.

If I had to buy a PS5 or and Xbox today, only one of them has a games service that ensures I never buy a bad game.

The Xbox has Gamepass, so you never have to endure paying $100 for Back4Blood or Redfall, to find out they're garbage. That's the hilarious thing - people offering up that there are bad games on Gamepass as if that's a problem with Gamepass, whereas the suckers on PS5 and non-Gamepass platforms actually bought those games. Paying for Gamepass has saved me more money on not buying games I thought looked good but were actually terrible, than Gamepass costs. It's like paying for car insurance, in a neighbourhood where you know for a fact your car will be stolen and written off every year.

And your own post is contradictory. Nobody cares about exclusives anymore but it's also the only thing selling Switches? What? Which is it? Even if people don't care about Nintendo games why should they pick up an Xbox over a PS5?

The Switch is its own thing - arguably it's not even in the same market as the rest of the gaming companies. No one is choosing between an Xbox and a Switch, it's between (Console and PC gaming) or Switch. Or between Switch, and playing games on a Cellphone or Tablet (which you can screencast to a TV, so why is docking the switch to a TV a thing - it's like the way in Japan you have all these "futuristic" automated payment systems, but they're for using coins, rather than NFC).

The Switch isn't a "console you can take with you" it's a "mobile gaming device you can (with wires, like it's the dark ages) plug into a TV".

The Xbox has a history of backwards compatibility - I can keep playing my existing old games in it, I don't even have to rebuy most of them. We still play Left4Dead as one of our most frequently played games - and we're using XBox 360 discs to do it. Show me the PS3 disk you can play on the PS5.

Sales matter because at a certain point devs skip your platform. Look at the Wii U for example where most 3rd party publishers gave up. Xbox sales have been trending down since the launch of the Xbox One and the current strategy clearly isn't working.

Microsoft doesn't really have to worry about 3rd party devs though, do they, because they own most of them.

I think the sales decline in the Xbox has got a lot more to do with the rise of smartphone gaming, and also the longevity of the Xbone as a console - PS4s might have replaced PS3s, and ps5s replaced ps4s because they simply didn't have the longevity of service, or ability to keep supporting new releases.

Sony pumping sales with planned obsolescence may look good on paper, but it can't last for ever. What's Sony's strategy for the post-console era if it happens? That's what I find so funny, the world is literally aligning with Microsoft's strengths - owning the ubiquitous platform with a multitude of device brands, and all anyone can do is run around shrieking about whatever will Microsoft do about their reference device console... when they literally have the Surface as their key reference tablet computer.

 

[salamanderjuice]

If I had to buy a PS5 or and Xbox today, only one of them has a games service that ensures I never buy a bad game.

The Xbox has Gamepass, so you never have to endure paying $100 for Back4Blood or Redfall, to find out they're garbage. That's the hilarious thing - people offering up that there are bad games on Gamepass as if that's a problem with Gamepass, whereas the suckers on PS5 and non-Gamepass platforms actually bought those games. Paying for Gamepass has saved me more money on not buying games I thought looked good but were actually terrible, than Gamepass costs. It's like paying for car insurance, in a neighbourhood where you know for a fact your car will be stolen and written off every year.



The Switch is its own thing - arguably it's not even in the same market as the rest of the gaming companies. No one is choosing between an Xbox and a Switch, it's between (Console and PC gaming) or Switch. Or between Switch, and playing games on a Cellphone or Tablet (which you can screencast to a TV, so why is docking the switch to a TV a thing - it's like the way in Japan you have all these "futuristic" automated payment systems, but they're for using coins, rather than NFC).

The Switch isn't a "console you can take with you" it's a "mobile gaming device you can (with wires, like it's the dark ages) plug into a TV".

The Xbox has a history of backwards compatibility - I can keep playing my existing old games in it, I don't even have to rebuy most of them. We still play Left4Dead as one of our most frequently played games - and we're using XBox 360 discs to do it. Show me the PS3 disk you can play on the PS5.



Microsoft doesn't really have to worry about 3rd party devs though, do they, because they own most of them.

I think the sales decline in the Xbox has got a lot more to do with the rise of smartphone gaming, and also the longevity of the Xbone as a console - PS4s might have replaced PS3s, and ps5s replaced ps4s because they simply didn't have the longevity of service, or ability to keep supporting new releases.

Sony pumping sales with planned obsolescence may look good on paper, but it can't last for ever. What's Sony's strategy for the post-console era if it happens? That's what I find so funny, the world is literally aligning with Microsoft's strengths - owning the ubiquitous platform with a multitude of device brands, and all anyone can do is run around shrieking about whatever will Microsoft do about their reference device console... when they literally have the Surface as their key reference tablet computer.

So Gamepass, like I said. But how's been going for them? Not great! Sales of Xbox consoles are down and sub growth is slowing. Juicing the prices and making tiers worse isn't going to help.

I enjoy the backwards compatibility on my Series X too, but guess what? Most people don't care about that. They wanna play new stuff. It's also not a robust solution when 75%+ of 360 and OG Xbox games don't work so if your serious about retro titles you need a 360 or OG Xbox anyways.

Clearly Sony and Nintendo's strategies are working better to begin with.

 

[Macalicious2011]

If I had to buy a PS5 or and Xbox today, only one of them has a games service that ensures I never buy a bad game.

The Xbox has Gamepass, so you never have to endure paying $100 for Back4Blood or Redfall, to find out they're garbage. That's the hilarious thing - people offering up that there are bad games on Gamepass as if that's a problem with Gamepass, whereas the suckers on PS5 and non-Gamepass platforms actually bought those games. Paying for Gamepass has saved me more money on not buying games I thought looked good but were actually terrible, than Gamepass costs. It's like paying for car insurance, in a neighbourhood where you know for a fact your car will be stolen and written off every year.



The Switch is its own thing - arguably it's not even in the same market as the rest of the gaming companies. No one is choosing between an Xbox and a Switch, it's between (Console and PC gaming) or Switch. Or between Switch, and playing games on a Cellphone or Tablet (which you can screencast to a TV, so why is docking the switch to a TV a thing - it's like the way in Japan you have all these "futuristic" automated payment systems, but they're for using coins, rather than NFC).

The Switch isn't a "console you can take with you" it's a "mobile gaming device you can (with wires, like it's the dark ages) plug into a TV".

The Xbox has a history of backwards compatibility - I can keep playing my existing old games in it, I don't even have to rebuy most of them. We still play Left4Dead as one of our most frequently played games - and we're using XBox 360 discs to do it. Show me the PS3 disk you can play on the PS5.



Microsoft doesn't really have to worry about 3rd party devs though, do they, because they own most of them.

I think the sales decline in the Xbox has got a lot more to do with the rise of smartphone gaming, and also the longevity of the Xbone as a console - PS4s might have replaced PS3s, and ps5s replaced ps4s because they simply didn't have the longevity of service, or ability to keep supporting new releases.

Sony pumping sales with planned obsolescence may look good on paper, but it can't last for ever. What's Sony's strategy for the post-console era if it happens? That's what I find so funny, the world is literally aligning with Microsoft's strengths - owning the ubiquitous platform with a multitude of device brands, and all anyone can do is run around shrieking about whatever will Microsoft do about their reference device console... when they literally have the Surface as their key reference tablet computer.

MS had a strategy for growing hardware sales

Halo, Forza, Flight Simulator and Starfield = Failed
Gamepass access to exclusives on day one = Failed. If anything Gamepass saves users like myself money. Just dip in and out 2 times per year to play a few titles without paying £60-70 per game.
Bethesda and AB acquisition = Failed
COD on Gamepass = Will unlikely deliver an double digit percentage uplift in hardware sales

You are correct about the Switch. It’s in its own league. Sony and Xbox have been lucky that competative FPS titles are not on the switch. If that changes with COD, Battlefield, Valorant or Fortnite coming to the Switch 2 then there will be one fewer reasons to own an Xbox.

I enjoy the backwards compatibility on my Series X too, but guess what? Most people don't care about that. They wanna play new stuff. It's also not a robust solution when 75%+ of 360 and OG Xbox games don't work so if your serious about retro titles you need a 360 or OG Xbox anyways.

I would argue that the majority of gamers play free-to-play titles which are…..free and can be played on older consoles and PCs, further reducing the incentive to buy a recent console.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Reading between the lines of Phil’s recent interview, you can tell that the Xbox division is on a performance improvement plan. Satya is clearly breathing down his neck. This is understandable given the profitability and growth of Azure.

The timing of the AB acquisition was unfortunate. The valuation was off the back of above-average gaming growth as a result of covid and 10 years of zero-interest gaming.

Entertainment is a zero sum game. Free to play games are too damn popular and Roblox’s impressive growth figures shows this. For every minute that a person spends playing Roblox, they are not playing AB games. I have kids. Them and their friends play free-to-play titles, especially those that are popular amongst their favorite youtube streamers. Roblox is actually best played on a touch screen device because some games require tapping on the screen.

GTA6 will make conditions challenging for AB from H2 2025 as the title will swallow a lot of gaming revenue….and player time. For minute spent playing GTA6 and splurging on in-app purchases, the less will be spent on AB games. There are only 24hour in a day. Zero sum game.

Xbox boss Phil Spencer addresses Indiana Jones PS5 launch news by saying Xbox "is a business"

Xbox boss Phil Spencer has addressed the surprise revelation that first-party exclusive Indiana Jones and the Great Cir…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[mattspace]

Reading between the lines of Phil’s recent interview, you can tell that the Xbox division is on a performance improvement plan. Satya is clearly breathing down his neck. This is understandable given the profitability and growth of Azure.

Satya has gone all-in on AI, which when OpenAI fails because it doesn't have a product that can actually do anything well enough to be used beyond novelty value, and has already achieved the bulk of what it will ever be able to achieve now that the low-hanging fruit is exhausted, and goes broke in the next couple of years, we'll likely see Satya "seeking opportunities to spend more time with his family".

 

[mattspace]

So last week or two, I played COD: MW3 campaign mode all the way through in 3 or 4 sessions.

It's the first COD MW game I've played since the 360 version of MW3.

On the Playstation, it would have cost me AU$109.

It was one of a couple of games I've downloaded this month on Gamepass. So Gamepass Core which is the online game service itself is ~$10/month, leaving the remaining ~$9 of Ultimate to be amortised across the games I downloaded this month.

So I effectively paid $4.50 for COD: MW3.

$109, Vs. $4.50. 🤔

 

[Macalicious2011]

So last week or two, I played COD: MW3 campaign mode all the way through in 3 or 4 sessions.

It's the first COD MW game I've played since the 360 version of MW3.

On the Playstation, it would have cost me AU$109.

It was one of a couple of games I've downloaded this month on Gamepass. So Gamepass Core which is the online game service itself is ~$10/month, leaving the remaining ~$9 of Ultimate to be amortised across the games I downloaded this month.

So I effectively paid $4.50 for COD: MW3.

$109, Vs. $4.50. 🤔

Gamepass is too cheap and too good value for consumers. This won't last.

The majority of streaming and food delivery businesses are raising 1-2 times per year now.

 

[mattspace]

Redfall, and Starfield might not have been the hits Microsoft would have liked, but at least they work.

"Playstation is doomed", "Sony is going to have to get out of consoles" etc...

Concord Is Suddenly Getting Pulled Offline With Sony Promising Full Refunds - IGN

Sony has announced that its PlayStation hero shooter Concord will be taken offline on September 6, 2024 and all players will receive a full refund.

www.ign.com

 

[Macalicious2011]

Another hint that Xbox handheld will be windows based. In the next 6 months we’ll be able to login, navigate and type in windows using a controller without touching a mouse or hardware keyboard. I don’t see a future for a traditional Xbox console if:
-the handheld is windows based and launch straight into the Xbox dashboard.
-windows pcs become more couch friendly thanks to cursor and keyboard mode for controller.
-there are no more xbox exclusives.

Windows 11’s new gamepad keyboard lets you type with an Xbox controller

This keyboard could improve Windows handhelds, too.

www.theverge.com

 

[mattspace]

. I don’t see a future for a traditional Xbox console

The traditional Xbox console is already a Windows computer that launches straight into the Xbox dashboard.

 

[Macalicious2011]

The traditional Xbox console is already a Windows computer that launches straight into the Xbox dashboard.

Replace Xbox hardware with selling windows licences for more gaming PCs + PS5 and Windows games, and MS won’t be much worse off. Like I have said previously, the Xbox handheld will likely be a reference design with Asus, MSI and Gigabyte given support by MS to develop their cheaper or more expensive variants.

The moment windows becomes as couch friendly as a console, we’ll see small form factor PCs for sale. Instead of an Xbox limiting you to current gen titles or the ones sanctioned for backwards compatibility, you will have access to tens of thousands of titles though the Xbox store and steam.

I purchased a gaming pc in December and have been impressed that many games run better or more bug free compared with in my Series X. Furthermore the kids are enjoying playing fun titles that are either not available on Xbox or are cheaper on pc. There is a huge benefit to windows becoming a more couch or handheld friendly platform.

Redfall, and Starfield might not have been the hits Microsoft would have liked, but at least they work.

"Playstation is doomed", "Sony is going to have to get out of consoles" etc...

Concord Is Suddenly Getting Pulled Offline With Sony Promising Full Refunds - IGN

Sony has announced that its PlayStation hero shooter Concord will be taken offline on September 6, 2024 and all players will receive a full refund.

www.ign.com

This is a game that should have been free to play or scrapped. Live service shooters are social networks. Without network effects they are doomed to fail. Expecting people to pay $40 for an over watch lookalike weeks before a new COD game is wishful thinking.

It will be cheaper to financially write it off than letting it linger with just a few hundred concurrent players.

 

[Macalicious2011]

I think the PS5 Pro pricing makes it easier for MS to quit the console market. It's unlikely that Satya will look at the £699 price and be excited about future of expensive gaming consoles, whilst current gen sales are behind expectations.

This is how I think things will go:

Windows is the new home of Xbox and it's being made friendly for handhelds and living rooms with the following UI updates: X, Y, Z

Let's introduce the Xbox handheld. It's Xbox branded, windows powered and can be navigated using a controller.

"Play anywhere" games that you have purchased through the Xbox store for your consoles, can be played on your handheld without having to pay again. A seamless transition.

We are also working closely with our hardware partner or a range of Xbox certified handhelds that will be in stores Q4 and Q1 2025.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I think the PS5 Pro pricing makes it easier for MS to quit the console market. It's unlikely that Satya will look at the £699 price and be excited about future of expensive gaming consoles, whilst current gen sales are behind expectations.

This is how I think things will go:

Windows is the new home of Xbox and it's being made friendly for handhelds and living rooms with the following UI updates: X, Y, Z

Let's introduce the Xbox handheld. It's Xbox branded, windows powered and can be navigated using a controller.

"Play anywhere" games that you have purchased through the Xbox store for your consoles, can be played on your handheld without having to pay again. A seamless transition.

We are also working closely with our hardware partner or a range of Xbox certified handhelds that will be in stores Q4 and Q1 2025.

Unless they majorly expand "Play anywhere" to include everything on the Xbox store right now I don't think it will be "seamless". Play anywhere is a teeny minority of titles.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Unless they majorly expand "Play anywhere" to include everything on the Xbox store right now I don't think it will be "seamless". Play anywhere is a teeny minority of titles.

Oh yes. There will be losses with any new generation of consoles. However half of the top played games are free to play.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I think the PS5 Pro pricing makes it easier for MS to quit the console market. It's unlikely that Satya will look at the £699 price and be excited about future of expensive gaming consoles, whilst current gen sales are behind expectations.

This is how I think things will go:

Windows is the new home of Xbox and it's being made friendly for handhelds and living rooms with the following UI updates: X, Y, Z

Let's introduce the Xbox handheld. It's Xbox branded, windows powered and can be navigated using a controller.

"Play anywhere" games that you have purchased through the Xbox store for your consoles, can be played on your handheld without having to pay again. A seamless transition.

We are also working closely with our hardware partner or a range of Xbox certified handhelds that will be in stores Q4 and Q1 2025.

Well for starters there's a 100% chance there will be a new XBOX probably within two years, instead of three because Microsoft has already said it will be the most powerful console ever made and they will remain in the hardware console business. My guess is, they will want to leapfrog Sony's PS6.

To your point about the PS5 Pro pricing will make it easier for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business, i'm still not convinced. First and foremost we need to see how well the public responds to the PS5 Pro and its pricing. So far the general reaction has been lukewarm or tepid. Judging by reactions on Eurogamer.net which has a high percentage of PlayStation gamers, there's pushback on the PS5 Pro's pricing. So we have to see how this plays out before we tell Microsoft, it's time to throw in the towel.

Also I would caution those that think the pricing of the PS5 Pro will make it a success for future and upward pricing for gaming consoles. The first, it did not go to well for Sony the first time around with the launch of the PlayStation 3. Secondly as the price creeps up, it begins to push up against gaming PC's. Also console games tend to have higher pricing that's sustained far longer than their PC counterparts.

So factoring in a high priced console, with high priced games actually makes console gaming less attractive and encourages gamers to consider PC gaming instead. Also keep in mind that the PSVR2 which Sony had high hopes for, failed miserably because of its high asking price, which led developers to reconsider if there would be enough gamers to make their development costs, worth the risk. That's the problem and risk with creeping higher pricing.

Lastly, keep in mind that higher pricing by Sony is VERY RISKY because the PlayStation brand is Sony's bread and butter. PlayStation is to Sony what the iPhone is to Apple. Microsoft is too diversified to rely just on the XBOX for revenue. They can absorb and take risks with it and it allows them time to see how things play out.

Now where I could see Microsoft pulling out of the console hardware business if they cut a deal with Sony that would allow them to sell GamePass to PlayStation customers. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future, although anything is possible.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Well for starters there's a 100% chance there will be a new XBOX probably within two years, instead of three because Microsoft has already said it will be the most powerful console ever made and they will remain in the hardware console business. My guess is, they will want to leapfrog Sony's PS6.

To your point about the PS5 Pro pricing will make it easier for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business, i'm still not convinced. First and foremost we need to see how well the public responds to the PS5 Pro and its pricing. So far the general reaction has been lukewarm or tepid. Judging by reactions on Eurogamer.net which has a high percentage of PlayStation gamers, there's pushback on the PS5 Pro's pricing. So we have to see how this plays out before we tell Microsoft, it's time to throw in the towel.

Also I would caution those that think the pricing of the PS5 Pro will make it a success for future and upward pricing for gaming consoles. The first, it did not go to well for Sony the first time around with the launch of the PlayStation 3. Secondly as the price creeps up, it begins to push up against gaming PC's. Also console games tend to have higher pricing that's sustained far longer than their PC counterparts.

So factoring in a high priced console, with high priced games actually makes console gaming less attractive and encourages gamers to consider PC gaming instead. Also keep in mind that the PSVR2 which Sony had high hopes for, failed miserably because of its high asking price, which led developers to reconsider if there would be enough gamers to make their development costs, worth the risk. That's the problem and risk with creeping higher pricing.

Lastly, keep in mind that higher pricing by Sony is VERY RISKY because the PlayStation brand is Sony's bread and butter. PlayStation is to Sony what the iPhone is to Apple. Microsoft is too diversified to rely just on the XBOX for revenue. They can absorb and take risks with it and it allows them time to see how things play out.

Now where I could see Microsoft pulling out of the console hardware business if they cut a deal with Sony that would allow them to sell GamePass to PlayStation customers. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future, although anything is possible.

Microsoft is big tech like Google and famous for killing or drastically changing plans with little notice. Remember Windows Mobile, Zune, Nokia Lumia, Kinect or even Stadia by Google. Billions invested into each, only to be killed.

-The disc drive is on its way out and will be discontinued which eradicate one of the benefits of owning a console. Fewer stores stock physical games, studios are nudging players towards digital pre-orders. Furthermore, titles like Concord show that modern games are increasingly more difficult to “own”. They require an internet connection and if the studio wants to pull the game or change a level, they can do so at will.

-Xbox exclusives are increasingly available on PC from day one and will come to PS5. Again, why own an Xbox.

-Over the past 4 years the Series X has been the most powerful console ever. It’s not mattered for obvious reasons. Gen Z care less about graphics as demonstrated by the popularity of Minecraft and Roblox. Valorant, COD, CS and Fortnite are developed for the lowest common denominator and look the same across consoleS.

The PS5 Pro might be expensive but Sony at least has IP that offers compelling reasons to buy it. Besides HiFi rush or Forza Horizon, I can’t think of many recent Xbox titles that have been fun, celebrated and struck a cord in people’s hearts. Microsoft are great at B2B but has always struggled with the sometimes irrational but emotional magic of consumer products.

I look forward to clarity on where things will head for the Xbox brand. In the meantime, any title that I buy will either be through steam or Xbox store.

 

[mattspace]

I think the PS5 Pro pricing makes it easier for MS to quit the console market. It's unlikely that Satya will look at the £699 price and be excited about future of expensive gaming consoles, whilst current gen sales are behind expectations.

so again, this double standard that Sony doesn’t have a next generation console anywhere on the horizon, any more than Microsoft (ooh they took the optical drive tumour off the side and added a “pro” decal), but somehow this is a problem for Microsoft, who have a whole ecosystem to fit the console into, and own all the development tool OS and all the game studios, and Sony has… spiderman

the Xbox is to gaming what the surface is to tablet computers. I don’t understand why you can’t, or won’t accept that simple premise.

This is how I think things will go:

Windows is the new home of Xbox and it's being made friendly for handhelds and living rooms with the following UI updates: X, Y, Z

Let's introduce the Xbox handheld. It's Xbox branded, windows powered and can be navigated using a controller.

the Xbox is already windows that can be navigated with a controller. One software update and every Xbox could just be a standard windows PC.

In fact the next generation Xbox will be called “Surface PC” it will be the same price as the current series x in the range, and the same positioning in relative hardware as the series x was at release, and it will be subsidised by “game pass ultimate plus for surface pc” and it will have a flip flop switch to flip between Xbox mode and windows mode.

see everyone can just make up a load of bollocks and pretend it’s a well founded prediction.

the Xbox is the halo device which provides a consistent fixed-price floor for how expensive a gaming pc can be, so that Microsoft’s 4k/60 gaming level isn’t held hostage to profiteering by pc makers, so devices remain affordable, and financial oxygen is left in the system for game pass and game sales.

the console doesn’t have to be independently profitable, its purpose is to keep a high performance device in an affordable range, which is why developers LOVE it.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Yes. The Series consoles have done a fab job acting like a floor for what’s expected of a gaming PC. Today, gaming PCs are waaaay more complicated to buy compared with 15-20 years ago. Off shelf builds by Alienware, HP and Deall are either overpriced, under powered or both. Hopefully handheld ones will continue to get better and more affordable - to serve as entry level PCs that are not intimidated to buy or to setup.

 

[Pezimak]

Well for starters there's a 100% chance there will be a new XBOX probably within two years, instead of three because Microsoft has already said it will be the most powerful console ever made and they will remain in the hardware console business. My guess is, they will want to leapfrog Sony's PS6.

To your point about the PS5 Pro pricing will make it easier for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business, i'm still not convinced. First and foremost we need to see how well the public responds to the PS5 Pro and its pricing. So far the general reaction has been lukewarm or tepid. Judging by reactions on Eurogamer.net which has a high percentage of PlayStation gamers, there's pushback on the PS5 Pro's pricing. So we have to see how this plays out before we tell Microsoft, it's time to throw in the towel.

Also I would caution those that think the pricing of the PS5 Pro will make it a success for future and upward pricing for gaming consoles. The first, it did not go to well for Sony the first time around with the launch of the PlayStation 3. Secondly as the price creeps up, it begins to push up against gaming PC's. Also console games tend to have higher pricing that's sustained far longer than their PC counterparts.

So factoring in a high priced console, with high priced games actually makes console gaming less attractive and encourages gamers to consider PC gaming instead. Also keep in mind that the PSVR2 which Sony had high hopes for, failed miserably because of its high asking price, which led developers to reconsider if there would be enough gamers to make their development costs, worth the risk. That's the problem and risk with creeping higher pricing.

Lastly, keep in mind that higher pricing by Sony is VERY RISKY because the PlayStation brand is Sony's bread and butter. PlayStation is to Sony what the iPhone is to Apple. Microsoft is too diversified to rely just on the XBOX for revenue. They can absorb and take risks with it and it allows them time to see how things play out.

Now where I could see Microsoft pulling out of the console hardware business if they cut a deal with Sony that would allow them to sell GamePass to PlayStation customers. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future, although anything is possible.

The PS5 Pro will be a sales flop, it's too expensive. This is a Mac forum site so most on here won't think about the price, they are used to paying high premiums for their gadgets, but the general public and fans won't, and their has been MASSIVE push back by Sony's users all across social media on its pricing of the Pro model. This is Sony's arrogance shining through again just like it did with the PS3's launch price, and the new Peo hardly separates itself from the standard model either. No one could tell the difference in the comparison videos they showed in the reveal video.
Microsoft isn't been competing as well as it could and should, that's obvious, and it seems Sony has taken this as a sign it can rip it's customers off.

Roll on the Switch 2 reveal...

 

[mattspace]

The PS5 Pro will be a sales flop, it's too expensive. This is a Mac forum site so most on here won't think about the price, they are used to paying high premiums for their gadgets, but the general public and fans won't, and their has been MASSIVE push back by Sony's users all across social media on its pricing of the Pro model.

Here in Australia the Series X was around $700, reportage of the PS5Pro is around $1200... that's going to be questionable for a console that only plays games.

If they really doubled down on it as a VR system (especially for creative / work tools, rather than just games), maybe included an OCULink eGPU module, SteamVR / lighthouse integration etc; there's a market for a turnkey powerful VR system that means you don't have to deal with a Windows workstation.

But as JUST a games device, halfway through a console generation...

 

[dUnKle]

Question / Enquiry

My partners eldest daughter likes gaming. Gave her my ps4 pro a few years back and she has access to my digital library on there.

Was thinking of passing on my Xbox One X that’s no longer used and buying her 12 months of game pass ultimate as a Xmas gift

Been out of gaming so long so firstly wanted to check if game pass is still viable / worth it on a one x ?

And then if so, how best can I get her 12 months of ultimate ?
I woukd want to set her up as her own account. Brand new user etc

I also suppose a related question would be is, is game share still a thing

I have a massive digital library and rarely game on my series x
Will likely play Indy and Cod

Is it possible I can factory reset my old one x, set her up a a brand new account, give her game pass and also let her have access to my previously purchased titles ?

Also, is “ultimate” the one would need ? She would not be wanting PC titles I’d guess

Also, if makes difference, I a, uk based

 

[Macalicious2011]

Question / Enquiry

My partners eldest daughter likes gaming. Gave her my ps4 pro a few years back and she has access to my digital library on there.

Was thinking of passing on my Xbox One X that’s no longer used and buying her 12 months of game pass ultimate as a Xmas gift

Been out of gaming so long so firstly wanted to check if game pass is still viable / worth it on a one x ?

And then if so, how best can I get her 12 months of ultimate ?
I woukd want to set her up as her own account. Brand new user etc

I also suppose a related question would be is, is game share still a thing

I have a massive digital library and rarely game on my series x
Will likely play Indy and Cod

Is it possible I can factory reset my old one x, set her up a a brand new account, give her game pass and also let her have access to my previously purchased titles ?

Also, is “ultimate” the one would need ? She would not be wanting PC titles I’d guess

Also, if makes difference, I a, uk based

If you game, it’s best to setup a new account for her.

If she uses the Xbox One often, I would consider upgrading it with an SSD to make games quicker to load.

Game sharing makes it possible for you to share your digital games with her, including gamepass games:

How home Xbox and game sharing work | Xbox Support

Learn how to designate an Xbox console as your home Xbox so you can share content with anyone else who signs in on your console.

support.xbox.com