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Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)
- Thread starter gkarris
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Exciting hardware buzz for Sony, Nintendo’s, amd and Nvidia.
None for Xbox
Microsoft are working with AMD to bring FSR 4 to Xbox Series next year according to reports, and it could have the potential for greatly improving performance of the console. So they may not need any new hardware. Also it is being said they may launch next gen in 2026 to beat Sony by 2 years, they are going to go off and run their own schedule.
According to rumours. Makes sense as it seems to be software driven. I doubt Sony will follow as they’ll surely want to push their own PSSR on PS5 Pro?
Supposedly Xbox has a ML block/accelerator that hasn't been used, yet.
I watched Cerny's overview of the PS5Pro and was left thinking why doesn't MS do this for the Xbox.
Based on Ms going to Intel for a quote on the next Xbox, I'm not sure how close of a relationship they now have with AMD. The PS5Pro seems way more custom (at least in GPU) than what one would expect to come from the x86 camp.
Can the DirectML deliver a meaningful uplift that will justify the software investment? If it can't make performance mode look as good as quality mode then will it be worth it?
I think PSSR on the PS5 Pro is only a proof of concept and a playground for Sony. On 3-5 years there will be a suite of AI tecniques that can be used. FG and DLSS are just 2. There will be neural rendering and others that developers will be able to use depending on game, priorities and hardware budget.
It would make sense for Xbox to also partner with AMD. Common algorithms that are shared between Xbox, Playstation and AMD(PC + Handheld) would make life easier for gaming studios.
Yeah...I don't think that's happening. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, but Microsoft's game unit has lost the company hundreds of millions of dollars. Xbox consoles are selling 30% worse than they were last year. That unit's largest source of revenue currently is coming from Playstation games sales, which they originally admitted they had no intention of committing to. Sony already made it clear during the ABK trial that if the deal went through they would be obligated to not release PS6 SDKs to their primary competitors.
Xbox execs seem to want to play chicken with Playstation on announcing whether there will be an actual next Xbox or whether the nebulous mobile hardware plans, that would probably be on ARM, that they aren't talking about much will actually ever be a real Xbox, or whether that will disappear like a puff of smoke in the wind. My guess is that MS wants to wait until PS6 SDKs start being sent to developers to test Sony's resolve on not sending them PS6 SDKs.
My guess is that Sony will yank that chord if MS doesn't cancel it's future hardware plans and go third party, at which point Satya Nadella will make the final executive decision to Sunset the Xbox hardware business. They are already de-emphazing the importance of the Xbox console in public messaging ("any device /other than an Xbox console/ can be an Xbox"). Things can change, but the path they are on makes it seem like Xbox hardware is going away at some point after the holidays or they'll drag it until console sales are embarassingly bad.
The decision on whether there'll be a another Xbox or PS has already been made. For bespoke hardware of this kind with cutting edge R&D, ideation to retail is a 6-7 year process.
MS have confirmed a handheld. This is good because the future of gaming is mobile. Xbox needs a consumer friendly device which PCs are not.
The ideal would be a:
1080p ARM based windows handheld: $300
4k eGPU dock: $250
$300 is a tall ask, you think that they can do that'd still make money on the hardware? I don't think they are in a position to sell at a loss these days. Heck even the dock at that price would be a pretty interesting ask unless we are talking about upscaling from 1080p.
They aren't bound to release it. It wouldn't be the first game console to die in development.
Steam Deck has shown it's possible to have a consumer friendly gaming PC. I could see MS create a Windows - Xbox Edition for OEMs with a nice controller compatible interface, maybe with a layer to run past Xbox games to not completely burn fans but still stay out of the hardware game.
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The Series S launched at thet price.
For an arm based handheld its possible. Especially if you don't waste resources on things that genz don't care about like Ray tracing etc. Leave that for those who want to buy the dock.
COD, fortnite, I die games, roblox and minecraft don't need the latest hardware.
Ai upscaling will also make consoles cheaper to make as you don't have to push the vounderies on raw compute which has impact on battery, cooling and engineering.
The Intel B580 cost $250 and matches the 4060. That shoes that it is possible to optimise a gpu for the games most people play and the price that the masses are willing to pay.
BTW I love flagship graphics but if the next xbox hardware isn't optimised for convinience and price it will flop.
Correct. MS has plugged the plug on countless of hardware products in the past.
I think it's pretty clear that ray tracing is here to stay. The Switch 2 seems like it will definitely support ray tracing and the best game MS has published in a while, Indiana Jones and the Great Circle requires hardware ray tracing. More and more titles are using ray tracing and not having fallback options (e.g., Avatar, Alan Wake 2) and with Switch 2 supporting it and the real beginning of the end for cross-gen that's only going to accelerate.
MS has to do something to provide something unique and worth buying. They don't seem to want to do it on the games side and I'm not sure it's enough to have a slightly more powerful or cheaper handheld or console. Gamepass clearly doesn't seem to be that thing either with how well the Series line has been doing and all the price increases lately.
Plans change.
Aside from that the fact that MS hasn't said that staying in the console business is losing them a ton of money makes the vague announcements of hardware at a time when the hardware sales are just terrible a smoke screen to give players a flicker of hope for the future, to keep them engaged with Game pass and paying those monthly Game Pass subscription fees. 2025 will be a more difficult year for Xbox I suspect, the poor sales of hardware and software outside of Game Pass, which are very low, will require a shift while Playstation probably announces banger exclusives in 2025 and for 2026 Xbox will stagnate.
Personally, I think Gabe Newell is going to be eyeing up retirement soon and will sell Valve/Steam to Microsoft. Then whatever Steambox/Steamdeck plans/strategies will be MS', which will chart their path back into console gaming in 2028 or 2029, but it will probably be a reset for Xbox and I don't think Game Pass will be coming with it. I suspect Game Pass will be on PC and Cloud only.
I also think Apple and Sony will team up beyond some VR controllers, but we'll have to wait and see.
Good point. Mandatory ray tracing for many recent titles. It will be interesting to see how Nintendo will use ray tracing and ai.
You lost me when you said Gabe will sell Valve to Microsoft…. 😂
And no, Apple and Sony won’t be teaming up, that will only ever be a pipe dream for people, thank God, Apple would destroy the games market for consoles and PlayStation along with it.
Given the amount of stuff developers have to turn off to make games run on the Switch, and its potato-grade cpu/gpu, the answer is likely to be “badly”.
It’s a bummer that ray tracing will become a must have. Without it, devices can be significantly cheaper, smaller and cooler. Developers will unlikely want to go through the hassle of making versions of games without it.
Regarding Xbox. I still have my series x. What I didn’t know before buying a pc is that there are play anywhere titles. Therefore I now look out for titles that I can buy and play on both devices.
Interesting that there could be a steam button on some handheld PCs.MS better hurry up with their Xbox handheld or a improving the hi of the Xbox store and making windows more controller friendly.
A lot of the time developers don’t make all versions, though. Take for example one mainline Apple Arcade title I know, which Apple funded and commissioned. The studio made the iOS version (which is a nightmare, because Apple demands they support the rotten-potato GPU in the non4k AppleTV), but then the console, PC and switch versions were all handled by dedicated porting studios once the exclusivity window closed, and the IP reverted to the studio.
Yeah, we play a lot of WWZ for that reason, but then again, we also avoid crossplay titles for some things, because PC players tend to have a cheat-heavy population.
This is why COD is bad on Xbox or was for me, if you selected to only play Xbox players you’d be waiting several minutes for a match, if your lucky sometimes just wouldn’t get any matches, you had to enable cross play in order to get a match. Somoza chest heaven. PlayStation is much better as it’s so much more popular so you can stick to console players only and always get a match.
Nothing new here, it’s been obvious for a while now Game Pass is the end goal for what Xbox will be, it’s losing console sales year on year now. I wonder how much longer they’ll keep making them? To me it’s an interesting move, basically going third party ecosystem, rather then console only platform. Not sure if it’ll work for them though?
They are "pulling a Sega" in that respect. It will probably be fine for them to just be a software publisher with a cloud streaming service.
Shame we will end up with Sony and Nintendo only though. But will be great if all Xbox games end up on PlayStation via streaming or native as a result.
Xbox series is a great device for people to catch up on last decade of games in a better form than what was before. I can clearly see where xbox excels (rdr1 only 4k in xbox but not on PS, xbox exclusive old titles).
But besides that, nintendos underpowered platform shows that the games sell the system (lm3 and odyssey graphics are top notch for how underpowered the device is, marion wonder game mechanics).
Unfortunately xbox was not able to push out any meaningful exclusives as of the past, thus becoming a cloud platform and 3rd party seller is probably their faith. MS has too much money to actually control how it spends it and use it efficiently. The same amount of waste would have bankrupt sony and nintendo.