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I would perhaps agree if it wasn’t for the fact that a lot of people already buy phones that cost well over a thousand, and tvs that can cost even more.

AR (not VR) is approaching viability. It’s not yet ready - but this is damn close and could be the crux. Apple have a little history in making something viable that others could not.

Phones are generally bought on longterm contracts and a daily device that people spread the cost for. This product isn’t a necessary device but a leisure device for domestic use. The appeal is totally different. I know very few people who pay thousands for TV’s or phones to be honest.
 
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Phones are generally bought on longterm contracts and a daily device that people spread the cost for. This product isn’t a necessary device but a leisure device for domestic use. The appeal is totally different. I know very few people who pay thousands for TV’s or phones to be honest.
Well- different folks different strokes. But for some (not me by the way) this is a worthy investment. For me - this is a glimpse into a future long heralded but never fully imagined. It’s a pretty good version of a future we see in Sci fi - from minority report to iron man. Minus the bulky headset (the stumbling block but also the starting block). Not other headset released yet - with apples focus at least - has shown this much mainstream promise.
 
Phones are generally bought on longterm contracts and a daily device that people spread the cost for. This product isn’t a necessary device but a leisure device for domestic use. The appeal is totally different. I know very few people who pay thousands for TV’s or phones to be honest.
I could see myself using the Vision Pro everyday, if the productivity functions work as smoothly as Apple's presentation led me to believe. Right now, my back pain is flaring up and I'm having trouble finding a comfortable position to hold/place my iPad for viewing. If I can put on the VP and read and post comfortably while lying down, that'd be worth $3500.
 
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The thing that most impressed me during the presentation was being able to watch films on effectively a huge virtual screen, so you can literally have a home theater without needing lots of space. As someone who doesn't have room for a massive TV, that's very tempting. Probably not $3,500 tempting, but maybe a refurbished one or a paired down model in a couple of years.
 
The thing that most impressed me during the presentation was being able to watch films on effectively a huge virtual screen, so you can literally have a home theater without needing lots of space. As someone who doesn't have room for a massive TV, that's very tempting. Probably not $3,500 tempting, but maybe a refurbished one or a paired down model in a couple of years.
In this context, again it’s a bit hazy. If you’re the person that would watch a movie like this (ie, small place, perhaps on your own) then if you couple the value with not needing external monitors and other such things, the value becomes more apparent. I don’t know, but if it can replace any screen - realistically- then it’s a bargain for those with this type of buying ability. And that’s just a single aspect of what may be with this type of device.
 
They can get a Sony 55" OLED and an iPad for $1500

The benefit of the vision pro seems to be that I can have a giant screen wherever I go. Not just the living room, but also my bedroom, kitchen, toilet, outdoors, on the plane etc. Having a 55” tv only in the living room and making do with the iPad everywhere else kinda proves the point.
 
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The benefit of the vision pro seems to be that I can have a giant screen wherever I go. Not just the living room, but also my bedroom, kitchen, toilet, outdoors, on the plane etc. Having a 55” tv only in the living room and making do with the iPad everywhere else kinda proves the point.
A giant, reasonably low res screen
 
I wonder what you would have thought if you were alive when cameras got invented

Many people said that they "steal your soul". It was some voodoo stuff. Most people still said everything was magic.

Today, people don't ascribe to magic; they assume they know better than others, right Karen?

Pay no mind to those asking for a faster horse.
 
Yeah, if it doesn’t appeal to you, don’t buy it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. What’s the point of creating a thread about it?

This is the first iteration that will mostly appeal to early adopters (like me). Every subsequent iteration of this product will appeal to a broader audience as it matures, just like iPhone.
Hmmm. Thing is, Apple had a visionary in Steve Jobs back in 2007. Without someone like that, can Apple persuade the general public that they need to have one of these? When the iPhone was announced, a lot of my family and friends wanted one, even if some didn’t know why. Everyone I’ve asked about the Vision Pro has said not at all. Not just because of the looks (which as you say will evolve and hopefully progress) but because they hate the idea of a screen being attached to your head positioned millimetres from your eyes with no perception of the surrounding world.
 
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they hate the idea of a screen being attached to your head positioned millimetres from your eyes with no perception of the surrounding world.
This is a reason why I wasn't interested in previous VR headsets. But Apple has done a lot to mitigate that, with their implementation of "pass-through" projection of your surroundings. And the ability to have multiple screens, in whatever size I want -- to me, that's a killer feature.
 
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I could see myself using the Vision Pro everyday, if the productivity functions work as smoothly as Apple's presentation led me to believe. Right now, my back pain is flaring up and I'm having trouble finding a comfortable position to hold/place my iPad for viewing. If I can put on the VP and read and post comfortably while lying down, that'd be worth $3500.

You could. You also have the disposable income to buy such a product. Is that a fair representation of society where most don’t pay this sort of money for a computer now, let alone in the future though? There’s people in my community using food banks and £4k is what they spend on a car. My point is just about cost, I think with this being an international forum and full of tech enthusiasts, most seem to forget there are other types of people out there who maybe aren’t as wealthy or into tech as much as they are.
 
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Well- different folks different strokes. But for some (not me by the way) this is a worthy investment. For me - this is a glimpse into a future long heralded but never fully imagined. It’s a pretty good version of a future we see in Sci fi - from minority report to iron man. Minus the bulky headset (the stumbling block but also the starting block). Not other headset released yet - with apples focus at least - has shown this much mainstream promise.

Never suggested ‘some’ won’t find this appealing. There’s people here though that think everybody is going to get one of these eventually and £4k is a reasonable price despite it being a huge sum of money for many in our societies. Just trying to highlight that most don’t spend this sort of money on tech now and with there being the added pressure of a cost of living crisis, devices like this become irrelevant to those that can’t ever dream of affording them.
 
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You could. You also have the disposable income to buy such a product. Is that a fair representation of society where most don’t pay this sort of money for a computer now, let alone in the future though? There’s people in my community using food banks and £4k is what they spend on a car. My point is just about cost, I think with this being an international forum and full of tech enthusiasts, most seem to forget there are other types of people out there who maybe aren’t as wealthy or into tech as much as they are.
What brought this on? Sure, I know it's a privilege to be able to consider spending money on this kind of product, and yes, there are people struggling to get by. People in Ukraine suffering from devastating war and now a catastrophic flood, Palestinians in Israel suffering in an apartheid regime where they are second-class citizens in their own country, women in Iran and Afghanistan oppressed by theocratic rule that don't see women as full people, we could go on and on. I was actually thinking today that building a product such as the Vision Pro and other Apple devices we enjoy can't be done without impacting our environment, despite Apple's assurances that they are committed to responsible manufacturing and recycling.

On the other hand, we never know which technology may be the key to benefit people. As I said, I was wondering if Vision Pro might help with my back pain. I was also reading the transcript from the WWDC session on accessibility features for the Vision Pro (see https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/07/apple-vision-pro-accessibility-features/), and thinking about various ways the VP could be tweaked to assist people with disabilities.

So yes, I will reflect on what I could do to assist my neighbors who might be in trying financial circumstances, thank you for the reminder. But I also believe technology can be a means to improve people's lives in non-trivial ways, and that's a big reason why I like to think and talk about tech with other people on this forum.
 
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Okay, listen, I respect the work that went into this. I can also respect this is a kind of beta hardware for something that might be practical one day in the future. Apple can totally afford to play around with ideas. So, I'm not knocking them for working on this.

However, let's be honest. How many people want to wear this thing on their head instead of watching their 65" OLED TV (or bigger for the price of this thing)? Who wants to take this on a trip instead of a trusty MacBook Pro that has 16 hours of battery life? Who wants to use this thing to write forum posts? Who wants to use this thing to do much of anything? Not me.

In fact there is only one thing I can see this being useful for given the battery life, but they aren't going to market it for that.
On paper, I agree. Except, the shear experience of that immersion may be worth it in the end. Maybe not 3500, but I have an iPad. On paper, an ipad is worthless. But it, for me, is an infinitely better EXPERIENCE for me to browse the internet or watch movies on, or draw than anything else. Period. Yes, even a large screen television (I have the 12.9 iPad Pro)

If this thing - or AR in general can create the level of experience I’ve had with other headsets or better, it will be big.

No, a 65” oled is not fun. You need good, expensive speakers, lighting in your house has to be low or nighttime or you get reflections. There are distractions during movies.

This headset will blow away any home theater. I am almost certain. Especially with Noise canceling headphones.

That’s before 3d or specialized content is made for it.

It doesn’t have to do anything new. It just has to do something differently that much better. Folks will pay for the experience, not the product.
 
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What brought this on? Sure, I know it's a privilege to be able to consider spending money on this kind of product, and yes, there are people struggling to get by. People in Ukraine suffering from devastating war and now a catastrophic flood, Palestinians in Israel suffering in an apartheid regime where they are second-class citizens in their own country, women in Iran and Afghanistan oppressed by theocratic rule that don't see women as full people, we could go on and on. I was actually thinking today that building a product such as the Vision Pro and other Apple devices we enjoy can't be done without impacting our environment, despite Apple's assurances that they are committed to responsible manufacturing and recycling.

On the other hand, we never know which technology may be the key to benefit people. As I said, I was wondering if Vision Pro might help with my back pain. I was also reading the transcript from the WWDC session on accessibility features for the Vision Pro (see https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/07/apple-vision-pro-accessibility-features/), and thinking about various ways the VP could be tweaked to assist people with disabilities.

So yes, I will reflect on what I could do to assist my neighbors who might be in trying financial circumstances, thank you for the reminder. But I also believe technology can be a means to improve people's lives in non-trivial ways, and that's a big reason why I like to think and talk about tech with other people on this forum.
I wasn't having a go at your use-case, I responded to you as you'd quoted me. My point was originally aimed at all those people here who think this product will put to death TV's, computer monitors, and computers generally. That clearly isn't going to happen any time soon as this sort of product is only relevent to people with high disposable incomes like perhaps you and I or those who are very wealthy. I mentioned poorer people in my community just to add perspective, thats all.

I am pretty sure this sort of product will be very popular in time and I doubt it will be Apple's version that will be appealing to the mass market, as Apple are never going to go after the average household, but stick with their premium offerings. If they have launched this at £4K now, its unlikely they are going to compete at the £500 sector and offer a product at 87.5% cheaper. I think this product will be one of those devices where most will read and see video's of how great it is, without ever having access to it personally. Time will tell, maybe many will be taking out 3 to 5 year loans for it like they currently do with smartphones, who knows?
 
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Everyone I’ve asked about the Vision Pro has said not at all. Not just because of the looks (which as you say will evolve and hopefully progress) but because they hate the idea of a screen being attached to your head positioned millimetres from your eyes with no perception of the surrounding world.
If that's what the people you're speaking to are thinking, then they don't understand the product. People freely seem to mix the terms "virtual reality" and "augmented reality" and don't appreciate the difference. Much of what you can buy today are virtual reality products - products really designed to block out your surroundings and place you in a virtual space (hence, virtual reality). The Vision Pro is an augmented reality headset. It places virtual elements in your space, "augmenting" it, but not replacing it. Based on Apple's promotional video it does look like you can create a virtual space to block out reality, but that's not the default operating mode. Reviews so far note that reality can be dimmed to focus more on virtual elements, but Apple clearly intends for you to primarily still see what's around you, and not entirely replace it.

I think it's difficult to envision just what you can do with this - doubly so if you've never experienced any sort of augmented reality or virtual reality headset. It opens up quite a few possibilities. It's a shame it's so expensive, but if people were to use it to its fullest, then the price is absolutely worth it. The trouble is, I've already spent more than this headset on my televisions, computer monitors, and mobile devices - buying this device can theoretically replace all of those things, but it's not like I get my money back on them just because I'm not using them anymore.
 
Okay, listen, I respect the work that went into this. I can also respect this is a kind of beta hardware for something that might be practical one day in the future. Apple can totally afford to play around with ideas. So, I'm not knocking them for working on this.

However, let's be honest. How many people want to wear this thing on their head instead of watching their 65" OLED TV (or bigger for the price of this thing)? Who wants to take this on a trip instead of a trusty MacBook Pro that has 16 hours of battery life? Who wants to use this thing to write forum posts? Who wants to use this thing to do much of anything? Not me.

In fact there is only one thing I can see this being useful for given the battery life, but they aren't going to market it for that.
Do you mean a certain activity which would involve certain hand gestures?
 
If that's what the people you're speaking to are thinking, then they don't understand the product. People freely seem to mix the terms "virtual reality" and "augmented reality" and don't appreciate the difference. Much of what you can buy today are virtual reality products - products really designed to block out your surroundings and place you in a virtual space (hence, virtual reality). The Vision Pro is an augmented reality headset. It places virtual elements in your space, "augmenting" it, but not replacing it. Based on Apple's promotional video it does look like you can create a virtual space to block out reality, but that's not the default operating mode. Reviews so far note that reality can be dimmed to focus more on virtual elements, but Apple clearly intends for you to primarily still see what's around you, and not entirely replace it.

I think it's difficult to envision just what you can do with this - doubly so if you've never experienced any sort of augmented reality or virtual reality headset. It opens up quite a few possibilities. It's a shame it's so expensive, but if people were to use it to its fullest, then the price is absolutely worth it. The trouble is, I've already spent more than this headset on my televisions, computer monitors, and mobile devices - buying this device can theoretically replace all of those things, but it's not like I get my money back on them just because I'm not using them anymore.
Oh they understand. Whilst on a technical level, Apple have addressed some concerns with some of the features you refer to, the problem remains. Having something on your head in front of your eyes is intrusive for a lot of people.
 
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