Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes, your MacBook Pro is running too hot, and yes, it is Apple's fault.
- Thread starter Doward
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/heat-sink.htm
This is probably a better explanation than I could type here. The bottom line is you have to pull the heat away from the CPU and you cannot do that without a fan or two.
If you were to down clock it a great deal you might get away with it. If you really interested in cooling it better look around and see if you can find some fans (not the motor) that can move more CFM of air.
i think you misunderstood my idea and the whole concept
the ideas is that cpu and gpu are attached to one single heatsink pipe which gets cooled by two separate coolers
i dont know why its done but simple logic tells me that if the cpu and gpu had separate heat sinks it would be more cooling efficient because
each of the chips would be separately cooled
in some cases cpu might ger really hot and in some it might be gpu but they wont have to spread its heat to each other.
think of a metal stick which gets heated on both sides
of course the question is
will it make any difference at all
maybe all the heat from gpu goes to right side
and all the heat from cpu goes to left side
and maybe this connection of 10 sm of copper they share in terms of Thermal conductivity is so insignificant that its just wont make any difference
well will see)
Last edited:
How are you going to get the new heat pipe your going to build to integrate with the second rad?
lets just say there is a way and if it will give anyt improvements i will show how its done
until then its just theories and blah blah
i dont like yapping abouth something that isnt done )
lets just say there is a way and if it will give anyt improvements i will show how its done
until then its just theories and blah blah
i dont like yapping abouth something that isnt done )
I think it's best find a higher CFM fan..cutting as soldiering should be based on more than I think. Where are you going to route the new heat pipe?
lets just say there is a way and if it will give anyt improvements i will show how its done
until then its just theories and blah blah
i dont like yapping abouth something that isnt done )
I wouldn't bother if it were me. I'm sure that scenario was tested, or at least considered, during the design stages. In fact, now that I recall, the 13" cMBP had a single fan, but the new Retina has 2. I suspect they added a second fan for both cooling and redundancy.
The way you described, each "zone" would be cooled by a single fan, and completely isolated from each other. What happens if the fan that's cooling the GPU failed? No active cooling at all to the GPU. Same for the CPU.
The way it is now, there are redundant fans for cooling both CPU and GPU. If a fan fails, it wouldn't be as bad (and one of the other reasons why I preferred the 15" cMBP over its 13" sibling.) I'm a big fan of redundancy when it comes to tech. (no pun intended.)
Last edited:
when a single fan fails the machine hits hight temps anyway
i saw it in real time scenario
laps were burned
if all scenarios were considered and calculated why didn't it include a simple polishing procedure of the surface of the heat sink? every single degree is on a count and they didn't bother for such a simple thing in a machine worth more then 2000$
----------
im using a heatsink from another machine that with a little modification will fit
Someone should email Apple about this. It really explains the massively different idle temperatures between peoples machines. Combined with different average temperatures based on geographical location, you got a good explanation why some machines idle at 30 degrees while others at 70!
when a single fan fails the machine hits hight temps anyway
i saw it in real time scenario
laps were burned
if all scenarios were considered and calculated why didn't it include a simple polishing procedure of the surface of the heat sink? every single degree is on a count and they didn't bother for such a simple thing in a machine worth more then 2000$
----------
im using a heatsink from another machine that with a little modification will fit
the heat pipe is the concern not the heat sink itself
It is a shame that none of the major manufacturers will step up and build a proper cooling system for their laptop.
It's marginal to save money. The days of building quality for quality's sake seem to be long gone
This I absolutely agree with: Apple without any doubts has inconsistency with the manufacturing and assembly of their portable Mac`s. I for one have had good luck equally many on this forum alone clearly have not.
I have said for a long time that Apple is purely a consumer based company, and they excel at what they do, equally in the professional role if Apple`s product meets your need it`s by coincidence not design these days.
Doward has a very strong point "The days of building quality for quality's sake seem to be long gone" if my Retina does not throttle under full load nor should anyone else's, however this is not the case for the first time in two decades I am looking outside of Apple as I fear the "magic" is gone. the absolute focus on thinner and lighter for Mac portables is killing the MacBook Pro, let the Air by all means take up this challenge, equally deliver a professional level portable to market not an upgraded Air...
Anyone has any doubts just browse the option available for a Dell precision, a HP Elite Book, or ThinkPad W Series, these are very much workhorses albeit Windows based....
when a single fan fails the machine hits hight temps anyway
i saw it in real time scenario
laps were burned
if all scenarios were considered and calculated why didn't it include a simple polishing procedure of the surface of the heat sink? every single degree is on a count and they didn't bother for such a simple thing in a machine worth more then 2000$
Because those that create the design are not the same ones that do the building.
This crappy heat sink and thermal paste "phenomenon" is not unique to Apple systems. It's something that can be found in every single vendor system being sold to consumers at one point or another. You take any mass produced PC or laptop off the street and crack it open, and you stand a pretty good chance of seeing the same crappy quality job. No vendor is unique in that regard.
In the end it comes down to simple economies of scale. By increasing the cost of each unit by spending more time, money, and resources on doing what is proposed within this thread, it flies in the face of that principal, and it's something that any publicly traded company would have a very hard time justifying to their shareholders. I would suspect that every PC and laptop manufacturer in exist are very well aware of this issue, but practically every one of them most likely chose to keep the status quo, as the recorded temps for the majority of systems out there (I suspect) are still within the equipment's "safe" operational temperature limits.
Is that acceptable? To me, no, it's not, but that is the world in which we live.
I think it would be nice to have a high end 'boutique' manufacturer, private, that does just that - spends the extra pennies to make a *much* nicer product.
YES I KNOW YOU CAN'T COMPARE LAPTOPS TO DESKTOPS. THIS IS FROM A CUSTOMER'S EYES.
I've had this Mac for a year now. I've been using a Mac for two years. I had to have it replaced because they cocked up when repairing it, meaning my Mac was essentially a desktop computer because the battery didn't work, and after 5 visits to the store and still no resolution, they replaced it.
Anyway, I recently built my own desktop and I'm much happier with the temperatures. I'm on holiday and have had to use this Mac from late 2011. I get very concerned when I watch YouTube and SMC says my CPU is at 97 centigrade. The computer shows no sign of any sort of warning for this, and I am worried, as I type this I am at 60 centigrade with 4 tabs on chrome and pixelmator opened.
I'm almost sure that besides the incompetent heatsink this is due to dust. Now, I would love to open the back of my computer and clean it out; I'm sure that would fix a lot of things. But since I paid extra for warranty hearing how easy these things are to break; I would void it.
This effectively means that I need to go into the Apple Store, wait about an hour (unless I book online) and get someone who previously wasted several months of my time diagnosing a problem that should have been spotted and fixed immediately to do something and probably charge me for it when I can do it myself.
This combined with Apple's design flaws and failure to admit said flaws has disappointed me greatly.
I've had this Mac for a year now. I've been using a Mac for two years. I had to have it replaced because they cocked up when repairing it, meaning my Mac was essentially a desktop computer because the battery didn't work, and after 5 visits to the store and still no resolution, they replaced it.
Anyway, I recently built my own desktop and I'm much happier with the temperatures. I'm on holiday and have had to use this Mac from late 2011. I get very concerned when I watch YouTube and SMC says my CPU is at 97 centigrade. The computer shows no sign of any sort of warning for this, and I am worried, as I type this I am at 60 centigrade with 4 tabs on chrome and pixelmator opened.
I'm almost sure that besides the incompetent heatsink this is due to dust. Now, I would love to open the back of my computer and clean it out; I'm sure that would fix a lot of things. But since I paid extra for warranty hearing how easy these things are to break; I would void it.
This effectively means that I need to go into the Apple Store, wait about an hour (unless I book online) and get someone who previously wasted several months of my time diagnosing a problem that should have been spotted and fixed immediately to do something and probably charge me for it when I can do it myself.
This combined with Apple's design flaws and failure to admit said flaws has disappointed me greatly.
You can't get a truly accurate estimate. Lots of people believe that their computer being hot is natural and are unconcerned.
Oh so people want the computer to not just work perfectly well, but also at an arbitrary temperature *they're* mentally comfortable with. Got it.
Arbitrary?
Intel's spec says 105C - no higher.
Apple's fan strategy lends credence that Apple is comfortable to 95C - no higher.
90-95C is the appropriate range of temperature for a MBP running all out.
Any higher than 95C lends evidence to thermal issues.
Nothing 'arbitrary' about that.
Data point - currently compiling in Win7 (virtualbox) - running 75C, 2600rpm on the fans, dGPU running. Lovin' it
Just an update:
I just finished a batch of 6 MacBook Pros for a local shop. All running 2012 rMBPs, 2.6Ghz.
Average of 11C reduction in 'normal use' temps. Everyone so far agrees the systems are MUCH more enjoyable to use, with the temps not climbing so fast.
I did not have time to run throttling benchmarks on the systems, unfortunately.
I just finished a batch of 6 MacBook Pros for a local shop. All running 2012 rMBPs, 2.6Ghz.
Average of 11C reduction in 'normal use' temps. Everyone so far agrees the systems are MUCH more enjoyable to use, with the temps not climbing so fast.
I did not have time to run throttling benchmarks on the systems, unfortunately.
I had 5 Macbooks:
White poly 2009 13
MBP 2008 15 late
MBP 2012 15 mid
MBA 2012 11 late
MBP 2011 13 early
Every single one was reaching 100C+ on CPU and 90+ on GPU at some point - Iam not talking about P95 or other benchmark torture, but simple using it; games, browsing, playing music, videos, etc.
I use 3rd software to set fans to max rpm to help cooling, I had them elevated on solid desk, even had two table fans to help cooling down the body. Nothing really helped.
So when anyone here saying, that temperature issues with Macbooks are rare and most people do not have them, I say it is NOT true, based on my own experience. If most people do not report issues, it is because:
a) they do not care
b) they do not know
c) they use them for simple web browsing and other light stuff
d) they gave up at some point
f) they do not feel the need for sharing it
For example, I will talk about my current, to keep it shorter: few months old MBP 15 mid 2012 with 8GB ram, 650m GT, core i7:
Fresh Mavericks installed, Steam installed, Driver San Francisco installed.
I start up Driver, set graphics to lowest. Fans RPM 6200. After one minute playing: CPU 95C, GPU 79C. iStatMenu shows around 45% CPU utilization and 35% on GPU. Temps go higher over time, reaching 103-105C on CPU with no problem.
Seriously? Are you saying this is normal? Or I have some extreme bad luck having the same problem with every single Macbook I have ever owned?
I had this problem when this MBP was new. I have even repasted it with different thermal pastes. Three times. Effect? Little to none.
Only thing that helped me a little was DOWNCLOCKING my CPU under bootcamp to 2,0Ghz and disabled Turboboost. I also have to have fans speed maxxed under bootcamp to keep it as low as possible. Then I can keep my CPU around 85-90C and GPU around 80C.
MBPs, especially 15inches ARE supposed for gaming, since there are games for it and even Apple approves it (games in Appstore). It is just not supposed for heavy gaming on max details, because simply, it just can't handle it. But over-heating like this?
I could add tons of other info, experience, tests and many more, but who would read that, right.
P.S. by the way, after reading a whole lot on this forum regarding this, I noticed one funny, but sad thing: some people here telling us, they have perfect low temperatures on their CPUs while utilizing CPU a lot (gaming, whatever), are reporting CPU HEATSINK! temperature, not CPU itself. It is a common misunderstanding and it often leads to flamewar.
Last edited: