You might want to wait for Sandy Bridge in Q2+ 2011 instead of buying Westmere

[gglockner]

I think the original point is that the only significant difference between Gainestown and Westmere is whether it has 4 or 6 cores on die. Both are Nehalem architecture and should give comparable performance at the same clock speed.

The bigger difference will come when Sandy Bridge is released, which is a new architecture.

Bottom line is that if you're on the fence about buying a Mac Pro today, buy it if you need it. A 2009 Mac Pro is a huge upgrade from a G5 or 1st generation Intel Mac Pro. If you've got a 2008 or 2009 Mac Pro, then take a deep breath and wait until Sandy Bridge is released. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, buy some RAM and an SSD. In most cases, those will make a bigger difference in performance.

Finally, if you absolutely must be on the bleeding edge of technology, Apple is not for you. There are plenty of other choices.

 

[Icaras]

Its a shame that apple is behind the desktop compared to PCs. I bet most people would just pick up a mac mini with an nvidia 320m to hold them over until the new mac pro is released.. but then again the mac mini is taking forever to update as well!

Agreed, and I am tempted to pull the trigger on the base model one just so I can have an extra machine to work on while I render, rip, encode and upload.

I don't even mind that they haven't been updated yet, the big problem for me is that one would cost the same price as a used 1,1 Mac Pro.

I see I am not the only one that's thought about this route. Honestly, I thought this might have been a silly solution to begin with but I see some people think it's practical too. If the Mac Pro weren't so "imminent", I probably would pull the trigger too now.

 

[Digital Skunk]

...

Agreed

I see I am not the only one that's thought about this route. Honestly, I thought this might have been a silly solution to begin with but I see some people think it's practical too. If the Mac Pro weren't so "imminent", I probably would pull the trigger too now.

Oh yeah bro, I've been toying with the idea for a few weeks now. May just toss in 8GB of RAM and a 640GB HDD just for kicks. The sweetest part is that it'll run two 23" ACDs, so when the Mac Pro finally comes, I just clone, connect, and have 22x the speed.

 

[Icaras]

Oh yeah bro, I've been toying with the idea for a few weeks now. May just toss in 8GB of RAM and a 640GB HDD just for kicks. The sweetest part is that it'll run two 23" ACDs, so when the Mac Pro finally comes, I just clone, connect, and have 22x the speed.

Ah, very tempting! Well I suppose I'll wait until June passes and see if I may want to go that way too.

I'd say that config you mentioned is a $1000+ rig already?

 

[sandylp]

Sandy Bridge

Thanks for starting this thread. I just sold my Mac Pro with 2x 2.8 Quad processors in order to get as much money as I could before it became too outdated. I had planned on buying a new MP, but now I think I'll just use my laptop (less than a year old) with a new 1TB drive until Sandy Bridge comes out. It seems as though I've always been on Intel's Tick schedule instead of the Tock. My goal now is to get on the Tock schedule.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Ah, very tempting! Well I suppose I'll wait until June passes and see if I may want to go that way too.

I'd say that config you mentioned is a $1000+ rig already?

Yeah, I'd buy it with the student/teacher discount and it'll be about $550 for the Mini, and another $250 for the RAM, then $150 for the drive. Round-a-bouts, I don't have the numbers in front of me.

The hard part is that I've seen many 1,1 Mac Pro 2.66 Quads stock going for around $1000. So I have to see if I want to break tradition and get a brand new Mac Pro, go stick with what's save me thousands and get a used machine.

 

[sandylp]

I think the original point is that the only significant difference between Gainestown and Westmere is whether it has 4 or 6 cores on die. Both are Nehalem architecture and should give comparable performance at the same clock speed.

The bigger difference will come when Sandy Bridge is released, which is a new architecture.

Bottom line is that if you're on the fence about buying a Mac Pro today, buy it if you need it. A 2009 Mac Pro is a huge upgrade from a G5 or 1st generation Intel Mac Pro. If you've got a 2008 or 2009 Mac Pro, then take a deep breath and wait until Sandy Bridge is released. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, buy some RAM and an SSD. In most cases, those will make a bigger difference in performance.

Finally, if you absolutely must be on the bleeding edge of technology, Apple is not for you. There are plenty of other choices.

I found this on the internet, which only confirms the rationale for waiting for Sandy Bridge:

The current dual-core "Westmere" processors aren't exactly ideal: the cores and L3 cache are on a 32-nm die, but the memory controller, GPU, and PCI-E controller are on a separate 45-nm die. This design does hurt memory bandwidth and latency. "Sandy Bridge" will bring all of these components (CPU cores, L3 cache, memory controller, GPU, and PCI-E controller) unto a single monolithic 32-nm die, which by itself should improve performance across the board.

So, if you can hold out until Sandy Bridge, you'll be rewarded with a major upgrade over whatever you're using now.

 

[Eidorian]

I found this on the internet, which only confirms the rationale for waiting for Sandy Bridge:

The current dual-core "Westmere" processors aren't exactly ideal: the cores and L3 cache are on a 32-nm die, but the memory controller, GPU, and PCI-E controller are on a separate 45-nm die. This design does hurt memory bandwidth and latency. "Sandy Bridge" will bring all of these components (CPU cores, L3 cache, memory controller, GPU, and PCI-E controller) unto a single monolithic 32-nm die, which by itself should improve performance across the board.

So, if you can hold out until Sandy Bridge, you'll be rewarded with a major upgrade over whatever you're using now.

That only really matters on Clarkdale and Arrandale.

 

[deconstruct60]

I found this on the internet, which only confirms the rationale for waiting for Sandy Bridge:

The current dual-core "Westmere" processors aren't exactly ideal: the cores and L3 cache are on a 32-nm die, but the memory controller, GPU, and PCI-E controller are on a separate 45-nm die.

What does this have to do with a Mac Pro? If you haven't noticed the Mac Pro's have 4 cores and the memory controller on the same die. This issue is really only talking about the "Westmere IGP" processors where Intel nuked the on die memory controller to move it over to the IGP die. Those integrated, CPU + GPU , chip packages are targeted toward laptops and mainstream desktop machines; not workstation (i.e.., Mac Pro).

Even the top end iMac don't have this problem. (they are short one less memory controller but it is all on die ).


The big leap that Sandy Bridge does is provide a more plausibly useful CPU + GPU package. The Sandy Bridge IGP will likely be much closer to what the 9400m is/was. That will make it more realistic to offer economy systems that don't have discrete chips to pull up the slack. I'm not sure Apple is going to use any of those. Well maybe a MBA, if it is still around.


The other Sandy Bridge feature that is more oriented toward a workstation better vector engine (AVX). There is also a better bus between the cores on the die.

So, if you can hold out until Sandy Bridge, you'll be rewarded with a major upgrade over whatever you're using now.

The "Sandy Bridge" like Xeon offering (5700/3700 ) is not coming till next April-June. It is likely going to slide back from March because:

1. still haven't finished getting the 3600 series out.
2. Now also has an -EX line to launch and ramp up. (more stuff )

If you waiting for relatively short term it is for Intel to finish rolling out the 3600 series.

 

[DoFoT9]

The big leap that Sandy Bridge does is provide a more plausibly useful CPU + GPU package. The Sandy Bridge IGP will likely be much closer to what the 9400m is/was.

annoying that its already going to be outdated and it hasnt been released yet

 

[nanofrog]

annoying that its already going to be outdated and it hasnt been released yet

As he mentioned, the IGP models are aimed at low cost systems. You still want a separate graphics controller for improved performance, and there's models within Sandy Bridge aimed at this market as well (no IGP). But not every part in that family will release at the same time.

 

[DoFoT9]

As he mentioned, the IGP models are aimed at low cost systems. You still want a separate graphics controller for improved performance, and there's models within Sandy Bridge aimed at this market as well (no IGP). But not every part in that family will release at the same time.

true i guess. its just a CPU, only needs to display images not play games

 

[Ravich]

I would be more than happy to wait if there were something to hold me over in the meantime.


The closest I can get is a dual HDD mac mini.

 

[deconstruct60]

annoying that its already going to be outdated and it hasnt been released yet

It isn't outdated. Most likely it will be equal in performance and pull less power. If graphics costs separated out, it will also cost substantially less than a 9400m's graphics. Performance isn't the only criteria. For 100's of millions of folks who just want any home computer that will be sufficient performance. Not everyone has $700+ to blow on a computer.

Apple thinks you can't make a less than $500 computer that isn't crap. With the more mainstream priced versions of Sandy Bridge you will be more able to do so.

Nor even if you do have a higher budget many folks do not need to run the discrete GPU all the time. You can chop power when not doing high end graphics.

 

[nanofrog]

Apple thinks you can't make a less than $500 computer that isn't crap. With the more mainstream priced versions of Sandy Bridge you will be more able to do so.

Exactly. Budget systems are a substantial market that Intel's not willing to ignore and leave solely to AMD. System vendors may not make that much on the individual system, but the sales volume is high enough they still turn a decent profit. Then when you consider Intel sells to all of these vendors, they make out quite well.

 

[DoFoT9]

It isn't outdated. Most likely it will be equal in performance and pull less power. If graphics costs separated out, it will also cost substantially less than a 9400m's graphics. Performance isn't the only criteria. For 100's of millions of folks who just want any home computer that will be sufficient performance. Not everyone has $700+ to blow on a computer.

Apple thinks you can't make a less than $500 computer that isn't crap. With the more mainstream priced versions of Sandy Bridge you will be more able to do so.

Nor even if you do have a higher budget many folks do not need to run the discrete GPU all the time. You can chop power when not doing high end graphics.

outdated may have been the word - but i totally see your point. for end users with little graphics requirements for sure, they just need something to show those little pixels!

but aren't we more referring to MacPro users whose requirements are more demanding then that of a normal end user? or am i missing something?