Your Mac and Apple Vision Pro: What You Can Do (and What You Can't)

[G5isAlive]

Jaysus, what kinds of games are you playing that makes your wife so aggro? 😬

lol.. is that a rhetorical question? I play a real time massive multiplayer online mobile strategy game that involves working in a group against other groups in something of domination fight for the universe kind of thing. And the folks I play with joke about aggro from the other groups (which yeah, thats the point) and sometimes say, gotta go, getting spouse Aggro. As in, the game takes a lot of time and spouses don't always appreciate that. and truthfully thats the only thing my wife objects to, the time. But I am lucky to have a very understanding (patient) partner. Counting on that when I tell her I want to spend 4k for goggles lol

The reason I mentioned it at all, is I readily concede I don't know exactly how I will use the AVP until I try it. or if it will be comfortable or not. But I am keeping an open mind and hope to find out for myself. But as others have suggested in their nay saying, its not the most social of devices, so if in my enthusiasm I make the mistake of putting it on while sitting with my wife watching tv because I am bored with what she has on, then yeah, wife aggro can be expected. Today, I just play my game on my iPad and pretend to be interested in whatever cooking show is on. I find Gordon Ramsay to be pretentious but entertaining. BTW, sorry if I offend folks with the way I joke about marriage, but criticize after you have been married after 40 years.

and that's five minutes you wont get back. sorry.

 

[citysnaps]

I bought the iPhone day one. Loved it. Understood its limitations; but more importantly, clearly understood its benefits. I understood it would improve over time. But that didn't diminish all the benefits that v1 iPhone gave me over my Palm Treo.

Jeeeez... Stop with the well-reasoned replies. Instead, use that pent-up energy to take a swing at Apple and how AVP will flop. Spread it out over a dozen+ daily posts and you'll feel much better at the end of the day knowing that you've built up a ton of forum cred. Smells like a win-win to me.

 

[Star Brood]

The AVP is a full computer.

I do not consider a device incapable of running x86 applications a full computer.

 

[OrenLindsey]

I do not consider a device incapable of running x86 applications a full computer.

Bro forgot about Apple silicon

 

[kc9hzn]

All in all, I’ve sorta warmed up to the idea of Vision Pro. Not to say that I’ll be ordering one, but I’m not as opposed to the idea as I once was. The big thing for me is that Apple doesn’t seem to be pursuing Metaverse concepts with it. It’s also not something you’re expected to wear all the time in public.

The features Apple’s advertising for it don’t make a lot of sense in my workflow, and 3D video doesn’t do it for me. But it’s basically to displays what headphones are to speakers. I don’t need a home theater setup, but as a single person in not the biggest apartment who’d mostly watch movies by himself, this would make more sense than buying a full home theater setup. It would also be far more practical with the desk setup I have than buying a large display. But the key thing for me is that you’re not meant to live in them, and you’re meant to be largely stationary when wearing them, you’re not moving around in highly skewmorphic VR spaces. The whole floating display business probably doesn’t justify $3500 for me, but I can see how it would be worth that to some people. And it’s certainly an easier sell to me than a VR gaming headset or Metaverse setup would be. I don’t game nearly as much anymore, and the idea of full immersion gaming is not something I want (I’m trying to be more present in the moment and in reality and less immersed in digital spaces that are designed to be addictive).

And the whole 3D space Metaverse concept seems stupid to me when you get down to it, flat webpages work better for a great deal of tasks than skewmorphic VR does. Imagine collaborating on a Word document or spreadsheet with coworkers. You’d all have to be in the same virtual space looking at a projection of a sheet of paper, and you wouldn’t really be able to look closely at the same thing as someone else or you wouldn’t really be able to look at different parts of the document (depending on presentation, a stack of pages would allow you to look at different parts but would make it hard to look at the same parts at the same time, while blowing up one page makes it hard to look at other pages). Far better to do that in the form of a flat webpage/webapp, since you can easily look at the same part of the document at the same time but can also simultaneously look at different parts. Or consider e-commerce, such as shopping on Amazon. A search box and search results are a much better UI for navigating such an abundance of results than displaying them in a mall-like or department store-like space.

 

[subjonas]

This makes me envision a Mac app, that runs on the horsepower of the Mac when used with Vpro. In this app, it renders the view that looks just like the Vpro "spatial view" in which many Mac screens running on many Mac cores are dynamically updating. There's some communications between this app and Vpro to share with Mac, where user is looking, what hand gestures are in play, etc to basically simulate the Vpro view on that Mac screen... and simulate interacting with Vpro on that screen.

All of this seems plausible to then render on a single Mac screen to me. Is there a Vpro UI simulator for Mac now and does it present a Vpro-like view on a Mac screen already so that developers can get their apps working well for Vpro?

If so, then, that one Mac screen which- on the Macs flat screen- takes on the 3D depth of the Vpro view, is air-played to Vpro. I wonder if that basically creates the illusion of multiple Mac screens being updated at the same time while still throwing only one Vpro view from the Mac to Vpro.

I suppose the tech challenge is not in what was just described but mixing the organic Vpro apps into that Mac-generated Vpro view too. Otherwise, the above seems plausible to me, leaning on the horses of the Mac to then render a simple 4K "video" of the Vpro view to Vpro.

There's probably a big flaw in this idea that I'm missing. Else, this seems like a way to get multiple Mac screens within the Vpro view without having to overcome pinched Airplay bandwidth.

I think I mostly followed all this. Very interesting idea. Wondering though, if latency will be the issue, sending information back-and-forth between the devices.

 

[verymickey]

Virtual display is what sold me. I don't know if I would buy just for that, but I don't live in the US so I don't have a choice anyway. But I have an ultrawide display in my home office and I work from hotels on a small laptop screen more often than I like. Only that one feature has a massive value to me.

i feel like they should have leaned into this a whole lot more.

Apple products always target either the home/casual/lifestyle audience or the creative professional/pro group. I understand that they are swinging big and want to release a 'whole new platform for the future' but i really feel like they should have narrowed the focus and gone after creative professionals - imagine if this was marketed as the ultimate work monitor. Suddenly $3k for virtual 4k infinite monitors experience is just a little more than a physical 5k monitor. Immediate value. Instead we get these $3k vr google so we can watch movies in private on a plane and creepy avatars.

 

[kc9hzn]

i feel like they should have leaned into this a whole lot more.

Apple products always target either the home/casual/lifestyle audience or the creative professional/pro group. I understand that they are swinging big and want to release a 'whole new platform for the future' but i really feel like they should have narrowed the focus and gone after creative professionals - imagine if this was marketed as the ultimate work monitor. Suddenly $3k for virtual 4k infinite monitors experience is just a little more than a physical 5k monitor. Immediate value. Instead we get these $3k vr google so we can watch movies in private on a plane and creepy avatars.

I think that’s why they call it Pro. Professional users are probably the primary market for it, but it seems like the team felt the need to justify targeting prosumer and well-healed consumers (probably for internal political reasons, perhaps to be seen as sufficiently entering into the market for things like Oculus Quest headsets). This is a 1.0 product from Apple; like with the iPad and Apple Watch, we’ll probably see Apple focus in on use cases that make sense as the platform matures. And we’ll probably see competitors follow Apple’s lead (using hand tracking instead of controllers, for one) as it matures.

 

[G5isAlive]

And the whole 3D space Metaverse concept seems stupid to me when you get down to it, flat webpages work better for a great deal of tasks than skewmorphic VR does. Imagine collaborating on a Word document or spreadsheet with coworkers. You’d all have to be in the same virtual space looking at a projection of a sheet of paper, and you wouldn’t really be able to look closely at the same thing as someone else or you wouldn’t really be able to look at different parts of the document (depending on presentation, a stack of pages would allow you to look at different parts but would make it hard to look at the same parts at the same time, while blowing up one page makes it hard to look at other pages). Far better to do that in the form of a flat webpage/webapp, since you can easily look at the same part of the document at the same time but can also simultaneously look at different parts. Or consider e-commerce, such as shopping on Amazon. A search box and search results are a much better UI for navigating such an abundance of results than displaying them in a mall-like or department store-like space.

I get what you are saying, but, I guess I sort of think of it as the way I do zoom calls... I can see what the presenter wants me to see (shared screen) while I am sitting at my desk with my private files open that no one else can see. The trick is to always act like you are paying attention lol. but yes, I agree, overall the concept of virtual presence at a conference table only goes so far.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I think I mostly followed all this. Very interesting idea. Wondering though, if latency will be the issue, sending information back-and-forth between the devices.

Since it's all imagination, I could imagine it either way. Best guess is that with Mac doing the heavy lifting for creating the faux Vpro display, the amount of data flowing from Vpro to Mac would be relatively little: where is user looking, what gesturing is user doing, etc... and then the greater horsepower in the Mac is doing what the base M2 would be doing in normal use of the Vpro.

The big data back to Vpro from Mac would be like watching a 4K movie over airplay. This movie would look like it has 3D depth but the actual video delivered would be just like any other movie... visual trickery to present the movie that looks like the normal view of Vpro.

This is one big pile of speculation (or something else) on my part and there may be a number of reasons why this would not work. But at least conceptually, it seems like it could... and Apple themselves have not exactly been shy about pushing M-series benefits able to process many streams of 8K video at the same time. So why couldn't a Mac simulate the Vpro view and insert multiple, active Mac screens in that view... just like some Macs can drive multiple screens in a multiple monitor setup? All seems plausible to me... but whether it's actually possible is for some other programmer to make happen or know why this can't work.

 

[entropi]

A bit fun, all mac display puritans always claim here that Mac OS is impossible bad to use unless you have at least a 5K display to work on... And AVP only give you a 4K screen? Oh my, at least 3D is possible but how will we survive?!?

(I'm not in that gang, I got both Dell & Philips screens at 1080p and 4K and a M2 MBP 16" and while the latter looks very nice and all and it is more fun with more space, I can actually work with both)

 

[Star Brood]

Bro forgot about Apple silicon

No boot camp, and as far as I am aware, Parallels is the only way to run Windows, and it is a VM rather than a native OS like Boot Camp. I will also wait for the market to catch up - particularly in the price segment. The asking price for this is about 35 times what the device is worth to me. Oh and Apple needs to pay me to have to deal with their walled garden. And I will probably never use the Vision Pro, even if I got it for free. I can go on with more absurdity.

 

[G5isAlive]

A bit fun, all mac display puritans always claim here that Mac OS is impossible bad to use unless you have at least a 5K display to work on... And AVP only give you a 4K screen? Oh my, at least 3D is possible but how will we survive?!?

(I'm not in that gang, I got both Dell & Philips screens at 1080p and 4K and a M2 MBP 16" and while the latter looks very nice and all and it is more fun with more space, I can actually work with both)

Have to admit it caught me by surprise too that the AVP was 'only' 4k given all the monitor discussions. Having said that, yep I got a 4k and 5k monitors side by side and I prefer working with the 5k (i.e. can see the difference), the 4k is to the side and is my 'holding screen' and its not nauseatingly bad or slow. Will look forward to how this plays out in the AVP.

 

[musukosan]

Have you tried 3?

They have a max limit of 2 displays. Meaning a laptop can only push 1 external, a Mac mini can obviously do 2 as there is no built in display.

I see what you mean, now. Thanks for the clarification. I haven't tried 3, but you know I'm gonna try now!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

"What? It doesn't walk my dog and make me coffee in the morning?! That's BS!!!! Typical Apple."

HMPH! I was planning on not getting it, but, knowing that I am REALLY very strongly planning on not getting it!

 

[Alexndar]

This is quite literally the only feature I want. Because then, I can just buy the smallest MBP with the smallest storage, but the highest RAM, and create an absolute beast of a setup, anywhere.
You can also create a standing desk like this. I wish there would be a cheaper option that provides this feature, and this feature only.

 

[ke-iron]

Um, the XDR display is $5k sans stand.

However, we do not know (do we?) the contrast ratio of the AVP yet.

I believe it’s OLED screens in each eye and judging by what we know about OLED screens this would be top notch quality.

 

[ke-iron]

The resolution is essentially 4K (across your whole view), so the smaller, or farther away, a ‘floating’ window is, the less resolution it has. If you have multiple windows open and viewable at the same time, the resolution of each will be drastically decreased. I have a feeling the 5K or nothing crowed isn’t going to like this very much.

Apple describes this is 2 small screens for each eye that is more than 4k resolution each.

What you’re doing is speculating about something you’ve never used, and you’re probably so wrong about it too.

 

[ke-iron]

I suppose that's why I could never find a use for an iPad.

My iPad was primarily used when I was in school and the killer app was notability. What the iPad and this app did, nothing else could come even close.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Uh Oh. ...

 

[entropi]

I believe it’s OLED screens in each eye and judging by what we know about OLED screens this would be top notch quality.

...the XDR will still look top notch in ten years and the OLED screens will probably be degraded beyond recognition by then.

 

[ke-iron]

True, in the cinema on the giant screen 3D worked well, at home, I still have my 42” 3D TV, it felt limited due to the screen size, to me it felt cramped coming out of the small screen, compared to a cinema, I haven’t used the 3D on my TV in years.

For you it worked well for me it didn’t. I simply hated previous 3D iterations at home and theater simply because I wasn’t fully enveloped and in my opinion it lacked the immersion needed to give me the thrill I wanted.

Ever since I’ve experienced 3d movies I’ve wanted a better experience and dreamed that theaters would have full on headsets tethered to the seats.

Apple is literally giving me what I have dreamed of. With Vision Pro and AirPods Pro I’m going to feel like I’m in the movie.

 

[ke-iron]

Oh for goodness sake, give it a rest will you. Just because I am not writing a university English language paper on grammar and such does not mean my post means 'everyone' or 'all'. You know exactly what I am trying to say in my post so do not pretend to say otherwise.

If you are the type of person that does not mind lugging around extra tech in their bag then good for you but there are threads on here from members that care to differ. Therefore carrying around a VP in their bag WILL matter to many of those who travel a lot.

This is true but I think some people seem to forget that all the parts of Vision Pro is easily separated. I think traveling with this will take up as much space as a laptop in a bag or sleeve.

 

[ke-iron]

It's just too much spread too think IMO, that's why I'm a Surface Pro person, I just have to worry about one OS and one set of programs/apps. Windows and Macs are much more interchangeable than you think, especially running one or another under a VM. It just gets dicey with apps, but M-class Macs can run iOS apps, and Windows can run Android apps. The converse isn't true, iPads and iPhones (and now Vision OS) can't run Mac software.

There needs to be some sort of technology altruism IMO, although Apple is at the far end of the spectrum here with their walled garden. Apple also takes it to even farther extremes because they are a hardware company and for them to profit they have to convince customers they require multiple hardware devices, thus the need for these specialized different OS' which aren't really needed.

Why should other Apple devices run Mac software? I have an iPhone, iPad and Mac and never once wanted it to run Mac software. If there is a particular app you or others really think would be killer on one of Apple other devices, either you let the developer know or create the app yourself.

But this notion that the iPhone or iPad and now Vision Pro is crippled because it cannot run Mac software has got to stop.

 

[ke-iron]

Sadly, I think many people here believe the sole use for AVP is as an alternate Mac display. There's much more to it than that.

Yes a lot of these posts are seeing using it as an accessory for the Mac, but it’s a product of its own. Apple is simply showing us how Vision Pro can use continuity with the Mac.

Some people simply lack the vision to understand Vision Pro potential.