YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues

[jweinraub]

A laptop that has a "Pro" moniker does not need to be the thinnest. It needs power and if that makes it thicker so what?

 

[pl1984]

I think there is a gray area here that is hard to define. I can't think of any device that is designed to run at 100% capacity 100% of the time without any repercussions. If it did, it would probably break prematurely.

I have several computers which can run at their full potential for extended periods of times. I do not expect my MacBook to do so. I do expect my Mac Pro to do so.

 

[Feenician]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-2018-Touch-Bar-i5-Laptop-Review.316648.0.html

That is damning indeed. They’ve thrown in the latest and “greatest” CPU for bragging rights, without engineering the platform around it properly. Incredibly disappointing.

 

[cm_junk]

Really hoping there's an explanation, because if true this is next level incompetence, or more likely Apple patching their design errors. And there's a few of those already.

Hard times to be a Mac user.

The explanation is Apple putting form over function. Simple as that.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

of course it can and should. try running a cpu intensive game like city skylines and it will fully max out your cpu at 100% and if adequate cooling isnt presented (like the i9 mbp) then the cpu will be pushed to 100 degrees. I agree with the part that it's a hardware issue, because obviousely apple didnt put adequate cooling and that's their fault, but a software will absolutely run a cpu up to 100c if not enough cooling was presented.
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can i just ask, what are you using your macbookfor that you need a core i9?????

No, I don't believe you. The maximum temperature for the CPU I believe is 94... if it is over then something in the computer is broken.

 

[cm_junk]

7.5 minutes in. Still humming at 3.1GHz.

At 100 degrees! This is nowhere close to adequate cooling.

 

[pier]

Industrial design does not mean thin at the cost of lost functionality.

No, but industrial design is the application of ideas.

Someone at Apple decided it's better to compromise in performance than compromise in comfort. Fundamentally I don't think that idea is wrong. The vast majority of people don't need performance. Do you drive a car or a jeep?

Some people do really need a jeep to traverse the muddy terrains of digital work, and it's what they expect when buying a Pro branded machine.

The other problem is that Apple is not really offering a powerful mobile workstation where comfort is compromised but not performance.

For years (almost a decade) I used to buy the most powerful MBP. I now prefer to have a powerful desktop and a comfortable but low powered laptop. My money is better invested and I use the appropriate tool for the job. Laptops are not a good form factor for high performance work, and unless someone creates an external CPU solution will never be.

 

[cfdlab]

Apple has forgotten what a computer is

 

[fairuz]

It's a bloody laptop. You carry it around with you. Physics is what it is, you can't change it. Most people would _not_ like the changes needed to make it run at full speed 24 hours a day.

Then it shouldn't have an i9 CPU in it. The ripoff here is that if you buy the i9 upgrade, it's the same or slower than the i7 once it heats up, and Apple doesn't give any warning. Or so this tester claims.

 

[Baymowe335]

I have several computers which can run at their full potential for extended periods of times. I do not expect my MacBook to do so. I do expect my Mac Pro to do so.

I don't think you really know if your computer is running at 100% capability, 100% of the time.

 

[geoff5093]

To be fair, this isn't so much Apple's fault as it is Intel's. Intel has really dropped the ball in the past couple of years. If they don't right the ship soon, AMD will take over the CPU game for a while. They are late with everything and are having lots of trouble shrinking the dies.

Not exactly. Intel provides the CPU, but it's up to the manufacturer to design the laptop to have proper cooling. Clearly Apple didn't do that.

 

[Faelan]

Just for laughs, last night I had my 2015 i5 13" running full utilization for an extended period of time. I was watching a 720p video in VLC, while encoding movies in iMovie.

There was no problem maintaining >3GHz. My base clock is 2.7GHz.

This was at least 15 minutes at max CPU, and still above base clock speed.

So your 2014 experience is way different to my 2015 experience.

I was on battery last night which from a thermal perspective may have some impact. I'm on power now, and fully charged.

I'm going to download Prime95 now I'll run it at 100% for 10 minutes and let you know how I get on.

Is running for 10 minutes at turbo and then throttling down to base clock ok? What about 15 minutes? 30 minutes? What about 30 seconds? Again, that's different to the CPU having to drop BELOW the base clock, which is what you're describing and what appears to be happening to the new MBPro.

My model is a Haswell at 22nm. I believe yours would be a broadwell at 14nm? That might explain some of it since broadwell is basically a die shrink of Haswell. I'm not sure how long I ran Prime95 for, but perhaps 15 minutes. I just had it running while monitoring fan speed in iStat Menus and Intel Power Gadget for monitoring CPU speed. One thing I did notice is that the fan would initially ramp up once hitting the 90C+ threshold, then stay there for a while and the clock speed would stabilize at around 2.7Ghz, then the fan would suddenly ramp up, clock speed spike and fall back down to 2.7GHz with the CPU temperature hovering at around the same mark. This would carry on until fan peaked at 6200RPM. I let it sit there for a while and it was stable at around 2.6-2.7GHz. This was all while plugged in. Close to base, but not quite there and being loud and hot while doing so. When using it for just normal everyday stuff, I do see it hit 3.3GHz in quick bursts, but it drops down to 3.2GHz almost immediately and 3GHz is where it wants to stay for extended periods. During that time, it does not use the full 28W TDP of the CPU and the fan is not going a max speed. Perhaps it would be able to hit 3.3GHz with the fan RPM maxed out. There's no doubt in my mind that Apple tuned the fan profile for noise levels rather than performance on my machine. Perhaps that is part of the issue with the I9.

*added*

Did some more testing. MacBook unplugged and with a USB fan blowing air across the top and bottom (my MacBook is raised half an inch off the table). Similar results while fan was ramping up (I suspect the external USB fan slowed this down), but once it hit that max RPM, it actually went up to between 2.8 and 2.9GHz which is above base clock speed. Wattage around 28-31 and temperature around 96-97c. Took about 7-8 minutes to hit max fan RPM which is just too slow IMHO, especially since performance was about 200MHz higher once at max RPM and sustainable at that point. The USB fan did a stellar job at keeping the outer body and keyboard at a much lower level. Barely lukewarm at the hottest spot. I decided to be brave and plug it in while going full blast. It did not affect performance and the battery did charge. So yeah, external cooling helps quite a bit and Apple should really add some sort of performance option for the fan.

 

[fairuz]

I don't think you really know if your computer is running at 100% capability, 100% of the time.

It's easy to check.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Hey guys... I really wanted to get i9, but will i7 proved better perfromance under prolonged stress?
I really don't want an i9 for bragging rights that under-performs because of throttling...

I did not see anything for the 2018 i7 - the comparison was with the 2017 i7. I would wait for Anandtech.

 

[fairuz]

Have you been following their Mac product launches since 2016?

Yes. The butterfly keyboard defect affects very few users and was an accident. This CPU heat issue is more likely intentional if true and would affect all users. I'm comparing to Lenovo because my friends have had similar experiences with them, overheating and self-destructing brand-new laptops.

 

[pl1984]

No, but industrial design is the application of ideas.

Someone at Apple decided it's better to compromise in performance than compromise in comfort. Fundamentally I don't think that idea is wrong. The vast majority of people don't need performance. Do you drive a car or a jeep?

Some people do really need a jeep to traverse the muddy terrains of digital work, and it's what they expect when buying a Pro branded machine.

The other problem is that Apple is not really offering a powerful mobile workstation where comfort is compromised but not performance.

For years (almost a decade) I used to buy the most powerful MBP. I now prefer to have a powerful desktop and a comfortable but low powered laptop. My money is better invested and I use the appropriate tool for the job. Laptops are not a good form factor for high performance work, and unless someone creates an external CPU solution will never be.

Where is Apple's Jeep? They have their car (MacBook) but their Jeep is turning out to be a BMW X5...fancy looking but not suitable for off road use.
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I don't think you really know if your computer is running at 100% capability, 100% of the time.

When I perform Handbrake transcodes my Mac Pro is running 100% for 100% of the time.

 

[fairuz]

Can you imagine the hue and cry if apple didn't offer the i9.

Back to the overheating, both Dell and Apple are using the same exact enclosure they have for years, yet with coffee lake the processor runs a lot hotter it seems then its predecessor. I don't mean just the i9 runs hot but i7 and i5. Some computer makers redesigned their laptops and provided better cooling, Razer, MSI and others. I think some makers just assumed that they'd not need to worry about thermals and plopped coffee lake into their existing cases.

Yeah, some people saw this coming. I think there was another thread where people were complaining about Apple not using the latest CPUs, and I said something like "CPUs aren't using more power over the years, I hope." Someone said that this latest generation is actually using more power than previously if you're at max clock speed. Sounds like they aimed for better performance in the case that your computer is kept cooler than usual. Or if you want to be cynical, abusing benchmarks.

 

[GuruZac]

Everybody’s use case is different but for the cost of the i9 maxed out 15” MBP, I’d rather have a maxed out iPad Pro and a 27” iMac with solid specs for the same money. I’m still amazed at what can be accomplished on my humble 10.5 iPad Pro.

 

[Howard2k]

At 100 degrees! This is nowhere close to adequate cooling.

This CPU has a 105C ceiling.

 

[RogerWilco]

So it’s not about good reporting but clickbait. These laptops haven’t been out a week yet but but let’s already declare them failures because that’s what pays the bills.


If thicker laptops are also struggling how is this an issue of Apple being obsessed with thin and light?

Apple claims to be the industry leader in engineering and design. The PR department regularly touts their awards and accolades. (The legal department settles the class-action lawsuits)

This is an engineering problem, and at its root, a physics problem. Small, thin structures cannot easily move heat from one place to another without a lot of help in the form of coolant. Apple claims to be uber-smart, and this is an example of rookie-fail.

 

[fairuz]

A laptop that has a "Pro" moniker does not need to be the thinnest. It needs power and if that makes it thicker so what?

Does making the laptop thicker necessarily improve its cooling, other than the small amount of added surface area? I'm asking cause I don't know. Maybe if you add more fans, requiring it to be thicker.

Thing is, the previous CPUs worked fine with the design they had, and they aren't going to release a thicker laptop than previously.

 

[Gerlandano]

No, but industrial design is the application of ideas.

Someone at Apple decided it's better to compromise in performance than compromise in comfort. Fundamentally I don't think that idea is wrong. The vast majority of people don't need performance. Do you drive a car or a jeep?

Some people do really need a jeep to traverse the muddy terrains of digital work, and it's what they expect when buying a Pro branded machine.

The other problem is that Apple is not really offering a powerful mobile workstation where comfort is compromised but not performance.

For years (almost a decade) I used to buy the most powerful MBP. I now prefer to have a powerful desktop and a comfortable but low powered laptop. My money is better invested and I use the appropriate tool for the job. Laptops are not a good form factor for high performance work, and unless someone creates an external CPU solution will never be.

 

[ilikewhey]

Isn't the entire point of the "turbo boost" on these Intel CPUs to allow the CPU to run at a higher than rated clock speed for shorter periods, then throttle down to the "regular" speed once the thermal threshold is reached?

IE, it's working as designed?

its been throttle down pass the regular speed, in his video the clock speed after reach thermal limit went below the base clock speed. 2.9ghz-4.5ghz-> 2.5ghz for example

 

[pier]

Where is Apple's Jeep? They have their car (MacBook) but their Jeep is turning out to be a BMW X5...fancy looking but not suitable for off road use.

There is no Jeep today with Apple.

The old tower Mac Pro used to be a real Jeep. Noisy, bulky, but performant, easy to repair / upgrade.

As for laptops, at the time the 17'' used to be closer to a Jeep, when MBPs could still be opened and repaired / upgraded.

Alas, Apple these days is all comfort / style over performance and has no interest in Jeeps anymore. Maybe that will change in 2019.

 

[tivoboy]

Wow. Now THIS is a thread!