YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues

[Ploki]

I might add it makes no difference which power source is used the CPU's cooling has no bearing here.

The only thing Apple could do is cripple the CPU to four cores when on battery then you plug your system into a dock system which adds the needed cooling (liquid) to an external radiator system to then allow the system to go full bore! Gee, thats been done and it failed!

yeah i get it, i was just trying to logically dismiss the "battery + heat = bad" claim.

apple just failed here because they were expecting more efficient chips from intel, and user base have been pressuring for a good cpu update. (which is reasonable, because quad has been in macbook pro since 2011)

 

[Naimfan]

Here you go

The same test results attained by Dave2D were attained by Lisa at MobileTechReview:

If you want to skip straight to her discussion of the i9, fast forward to 11:59.

BTW I don't understand all of you who are bashing D2D. He recommends the MBP but criticizes the i9 configuration. That is not the mark of someone who hates Apple.
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Lisa over at MobileTechReview recommends the i7 2.6GHz as the sweet spot for current CPUs.

She's welcome to her opinion. The 2.6 heats up the keyboard to the point it's uncomfortable to use while under load. Hence the return of the 2.6 in favor of a 2.2.

I'm also surprised at the Cinebench i9 scores, which are lower than the 2.6 I had.

 

[adelmonico]

I can report that it definitely throttles in Premiere.

Ive been editing on a maxed out 2.9 this morning and things were going smooth until I finished my 1.5 minute render.

I went to playback the video from start to finish and about a minute the frames started dropping severely. The first minute play smooth at 1/2 res in premiere. You can see where the throttling started in the attached graph.

I'm shocked because this didnt happen while rendering, this was during playback in the timeline.

This is a killer problem for me.

Looks like I might be returning a $6k paper weight.

 

[DanBig]

As much as I have been bashing Apple these years (they really deserve it), however I disagree with this one. It's very good to see Apple putting 32GB RAM and more than usual numbers of cores in the MBP. Not that I consider the MBP perfect, though (it should have NVIDIA GPU for that), but I think the current MBP update is in the right direction.

Moreover, powering up the MBP in specs, leaves room for lighter and quiter MacBooks to exist with display sizes larger than 12'', so I'm really applauding Apple at the new MBP update, and I'm not joining this rant. I really wish a very light MacBook larger than 12'' to come into reality.

This doesn't mean that I quit bashing Apple. They deserve to be criticized, for neglecting the Mac, for controlling your life through iOS, and for running a political party instead of a computer company.

Your Right! On paper this is a great system! But when the shoes hit the pavement it failed! They got all of the wants but failed in the cooling!

That last step is the killer. Sorry Apple this is a fail as you can't run this chip in this form factor of a system.

Sure Intel will come out with a better version in a year or two which drops its heat load to fit this frame. But, thats not today! This is were Apple needed to get off the >Thin is In< to back to the >Fat box is whats needed<

They need to go back to go forward! Back the Unibody case size. For a Pro's box thats not such a big hit! Sure people will grumble, but when the next Gen of the i9 pop's thats not a roaster you've got a thin system frame to support it.

 

[Ploki]

As much as I have been bashing Apple these years (they really deserve it), however I disagree with this one. It's very good to see Apple putting 32GB RAM and more than usual numbers of cores in the MBP. Not that I consider the MBP perfect, though (it should have NVIDIA GPU for that), but I think the current MBP update is in the right direction.

Moreover, powering up the MBP in specs, leaves room for lighter and quiter MacBooks to exist with display sizes larger than 12'', so I'm really applauding Apple at the new MBP update, and I'm not joining this rant. I really wish a very light MacBook larger than 12'' to come into reality.

This doesn't mean that I quit bashing Apple. They deserve to be criticized, for neglecting the Mac, for controlling your life through iOS, and for running a political party instead of a computer company.

oooh the system is great, i was ready to drop 5k euros on it... until i read the throttling fiasco. now its not so great.

 

[gswilder]

I think this is just a trend from Apple, from an overall perspective. I have a top of the line spec'd 2017 MBP, that I dislike so much, I bought an Apple refurb mid-2015 to use day to day instead. The keyboard and the touchbar and the lack of ports was just a killer for me. Yea, I can use port extenders and such, but that goes against Job's mantra, of it just works.

What has Apple really innovated of late? I love my iPad pro 12.9, along with the Apple pencil. Maybe the Apple pencil was innovative? It works really good, and I love it for drawing, photo retouching and taking notes.

I think the Apple Airpods are innovative. The charging case and X1 chip are great. For me, they are perfect in every way, except they don't fit my ears, and fall out just sitting in a chair. Wish they had a version that would stay in my ears. Maybe I should try the BeatsX.

Me and my family have close to 20 Apple devices, with iPads, iPhones, Macbook Pros, iMacs, and more. I love the Apple ecosystem, iMessage, and frankly that is what keeps me from switching back to windows for my laptops and desktops.

Maybe it's the death of Steve Jobs. I don't know, but Apple seems on a downward trend in terms of innovation and quality.

 

[Mydel]

I can report that it definitely throttles in Premiere.

Ive been editing on a maxed out 2.9 this morning and things were going smooth until I finished my 1.5 minute render.

I went to playback the video from start to finish and about a minute the frames started dropping severely. The first minute play smooth at 1/2 res in premiere. You can see where the throttling started in the attached graph.

I'm shocked because this didnt happen while rendering, this was during playback in the timeline.

This is a killer problem for me.

Looks like I might be returning a $6k paper weight.

That is wired...Especially that your temperature was in the range of 85C when it went idle to 800MHz. im not sure its thermal throttling though.

 

[Ifti]

Does it i7 also TT or is it just the i9?

 

[Ploki]

Maybe it's the death of Steve Jobs. I don't know, but Apple seems on a downward trend in terms of innovation and quality.

except steve jobs died 2 years before first gen retina macbook and you seem to like it.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

I can report that it definitely throttles in Premiere.

Ive been editing on a maxed out 2.9 this morning and things were going smooth until I finished my 1.5 minute render.

I went to playback the video from start to finish and about a minute the frames started dropping severely. The first minute play smooth at 1/2 res in premiere. You can see where the throttling started in the attached graph.

I'm shocked because this didnt happen while rendering, this was during playback in the timeline.

This is a killer problem for me.

Looks like I might be returning a $6k paper weight.

Premiere is not optimized for the Mac and it is already a dog of an application. It also does not work well with AMD. If you are using Premiere the Mac and you want to use it on a laptop... Macs are not for you (not new). No personal experience here, but I would not be surprised if it did not work well on most if not all laptops (i.e. Windows) the way it is. Adobe has not put any effort into really cleaning up the code and modernizing it (at the core of it) IMHO. If you are a professional then you really should have workstation class machine.

 

[dspdoc]

The i9 has blown way over your head.

There is a need for the i9, regardless of the enclosure.

That's why they released it.

Pro users aren't happy with just an i7.

More RAM more CPU more STORAGE.

Yeah baby!

I’m a pro user. There is no need. Want and need are two different things. i9 is far from necessary.

 

[eulslix]

except steve jobs died 2 years before first gen retina macbook and you seem to like it.

The rMBP was probably one of the last products, that Steve Jobs was actually supervising. These things don't pop out of nowhere and usually are designed and tested through many years. So while he probably didn't survive the last iterations, he might've been heavily involved in the ideation process.
The new 2016 MBP however...

 

[Ploki]

Premiere is not optimized for the Mac and it is already a dog of an application. It also does not work well with AMD. If you are using Premiere the Mac and you want to use it on a laptop... Macs are not for you (not new). No personal experience here, but I would not be surprised if it did not work well on most if not all laptops (i.e. Windows) the way it is. Adobe has not put any effort into really cleaning up the code and modernizing it (at the core of it) IMHO. If you are a professional then you really should have workstation class machine.

i get that and agree with everything, but apple is advertising something that's simply not being delivered.
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The rMBP was probably one of the last products, that Steve Jobs was actually supervising. These things don't pop out of nowhere and usually are designed and tested through many years. So while he probably didn't survive the last iterations, he might've been heavily involved in the ideation process.
The new 2016 MBP however...

frankly, the thermals and crappy 3y old GPU (also related to thermals frankly) is the only thing pissing me off.

not that MBP ever had great GPUs, but this... this is just sad.

 

[jgbr]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-n...nd-clearly-beaten-by-the-XPS-15.317264.0.html

says it all really.

 

[Val-kyrie]

I'm not sure if Lisa fully understands the mechanics here as well as the risks of over-riding the SMC's controlling of the fans.

There are two factors the >Creation< of heat and the >Dissipation< of heat. A fan is only able to dissipate the heat it does not stop the creation. The creation is the bugaboo! This chip runs Hot when in full engagement. It makes perfect sense it would! Here we have six cores running full out, in an i7 we only have four! Basically we have half as much processing power creating heat!

>>> The thermal design for the i5/i7 models does not have enough headroom to pull this added heat. <<<

Now is the tricky part! We need to pull this heat off of the CPU as efficiently as possible! This is where the mass and radiators of the heatsink comes to play. Like a vacuum the heatsink pulls the heat, but just like a vacuum if the hose gets clogged you loose the suction so you're no longer cleaning. Here the heatsinks mass is just like the hose as once the sink has just as much heat as the chip its on it looses its efficiency.

This then get on how you move the heat from the heatsink onto a radiator system so the fan can then evacuate the heat. So if this heat transfer is limited to a value of A, and the chip is producing A then you have a balanced system. But as soon as the chip produces B and the heat sink also gets to B but the radiator/fan system is still only able to push A you get into this mess. Sure you can increase the fans ability to push the air so in theory B to B to B1 takes place but B1 has its limits! As the chip is still running at B! Which is too hot for it to sustain over time.

I did gloss over the math here trust me! Using a fan at a higher rev does help! But not for a sustained time. So what is too long? Knowing what I know in servicing systems I would say 10 minutes on this chip will reduces its life a bit and any longer will shorten it more so. The fan will also give out and as Apple does not believe in cleaning dust build up over time as well as refreshing the thermal paste (which they use is just junk) the entire system will fail that much sooner as it gets older!

A Pro using the system hard rendering video's and editing high def images in batch mode will likely burn it out in a year.

So this is a Pro's box - NOT!!

I totally agree. I was trying to set some facts straight for other users, but you are spot on when you say adjusting the fan is a band-aid for the underlying illness. If you have to adjust the fan settings with a third party program just to use a machine, then it was not designed properly.

She's welcome to her opinion. The 2.6 heats up the keyboard to the point it's uncomfortable to use while under load. Hence the return of the 2.6 in favor of a 2.2.

I'm also surprised at the Cinebench i9 scores, which are lower than the 2.6 I had.

Thanks for the information on the heat.

As far as I am concerned, the i9 is marketing fluff.

 

[eulslix]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-n...nd-clearly-beaten-by-the-XPS-15.317264.0.html

says it all really.

Yeah, was about to share that. Here the complete article, so far only in german

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-GHz-560X-Laptop.316698.0.html

 

[OC40]

Yeah, was about to share that. Here the complete article, so far only in german

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-GHz-560X-Laptop.316698.0.html

Why is one link .net and the other .com? I am not familiar with notebook check. Thanks.

 

[jgbr]

So a less than 10% gain even on the top i7HQ of 2017. But myHQ I can run pretty much sustained 4-43.ghz at 85-90c.

BUT

it doesn't throttle down anywhere as low as any of the 6core 2018 models.....

 

[bkkcanuck8]

I totally agree. I was trying to set some facts straight for other users, but you are spot on when you say adjusting the fan is a band-aid for the underlying illness. If you have to adjust the fan settings with a third party program just to use a machine, then it was not designed properly.

I am assuming that if you say adjusting the fan is a band-aid solution in that the macOS should be rev'ing them up more that it is... then I agree with you -- but then it is a minor software adjustment in that case. Other (windows) laptops do run the fans at a higher speed because they don't have the same obsession with sound levels.

You need a heatsink to pull the heat away from the CPU to the 'fins and you need the airflow to push the heat away and out the machine. You can have a smaller heatsink with more airflow, or a larger heatsink with more surface area and you can run quieter with the fans running lower... the end result is the same. Either way, the i9 at it's rated TDP is generating too much heat for a laptop. As a 'transportable' (not a laptop) class machine, the i9 would be fine. (back in the day we use to have a differentiation between a laptop/portable and transportable size) -- and I can attest that many normal 'laptops' when I was a road warrior ... were not meant for the lap (I have been physically burned by one Toshiba - which was in its day considered one of the premier machines).

 

[iShater]

As expected, this has been a huge discussion here.
Since we "cannae change the laws of physics!" (thanks Scotty!), we are hit with the limitations of what such a slim platform can handle in terms of the dissipation of heat (without burning you) while hitting the max "theoretical" limits.

Every laptop will throttle back if the CPU reaches certain temperatures. We can play around with ways to cool the system to get it to perform better, but that defeats the purpose of the laptop.

For me the 6-core configuration that is finally available is the key here, for virtual machines, parallel processing with burst throughput, etc.

Considering how much it costs to upgrade to the i9 ($400 USD) to get an extra peak in performance, that is now showing to be "not quite true" indicates that it is marketing trying to overcome real world limitations.

Is it "-gate" worthy? not really, but more like "don't waste your money on the upgrade". I'm due for an upgrade next year, i don't expect these issues to be resolved, but my biggest beef with the RAM and CPU is resolved and I will have to live the dongle-full life.

 

[jgbr]

I am assuming that if you say adjusting the fan is a band-aid solution in that the macOS should be rev'ing them up more that it is... then I agree with you -- but then it is a minor software adjustment in that case. Other (windows) laptops do run the fans at a higher speed because they don't have the same obsession with sound levels.

You need a heatsink to pull the heat away from the CPU to the 'fins and you need the airflow to push the heat away and out the machine. You can have a smaller heatsink with more airflow, or a larger heatsink with more surface area and you can run quieter with the fans running lower... the end result is the same. Either way, the i9 at it's rated TDP is generating too much heat for a laptop. As a 'transportable' (not a laptop) class machine, the i9 would be fine. (back in the day we use to have a differentiation between a laptop/portable and transportable size) -- and I can attest that many normal 'laptops' when I was a road warrior ... were not meant for the lap (I have been physically burned by one Toshiba - which was in its day considered one of the premier machines).

I dont think even with maxed out fan's its stopping it throttling. Still coming down to a needed redesign of the cooling..

 

[AmazingRobie]

DELETED

 

[ssgbryan]

BTW I don't understand all of you who are bashing D2D. He recommends the MBP but criticizes the i9 configuration. That is not the mark of someone who hates Apple.

Because they have an emotional investment in apple, and any criticism of any apple product is a direct attack on their sense of self-worth.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

I don't think even with maxed out fan's it's stopping it throttling. Still coming down to a needed redesign of the cooling..

Airflow is a big part of cooling... big big part for air cooling. The reviewer did not come close to maxing out the fans -- so yes, increasing airflow (and associated noise) would more than likely stop the throttling. It is all about compromises though. I mean you could add a half kg or so of heatsink as well and also solve the issue. Whether the case is larger or not - you still have to get the heat out... and that takes fans or larger heatsinks.

No, it won't... if Intel gets it's act together... and no, it won't if Apple dumps Intel for laptops. A die shrink would bring the thermals of the chip back into the proper envelope. It is running hotter than chip it replaced even though it is supposed to have the same TDP. If they took the eGPU off the chip, it would also reduce thermals since typically more than half the main chip is dedicated to GPU stuff (which would mean fewer power savings during 'normal' operation).

 

[Eithanius]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-n...nd-clearly-beaten-by-the-XPS-15.317264.0.html

says it all really.

So the best option here is to go with base 2.2ghz model, customised the rest as you like, install Xcode and disable 2 physical cores...?