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What is going on at Apple? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. They have been doing that a lot lately. I am all for moving the 13 inch macbook to a quad core and the 15 inch to the 6 core but didn’t they test it out first? Does Apple even spend any money on R&D anymore??? Apple is becoming a pure money machine and not a technological innovator like they used to be. Its so sad. People are going to start looking at Windows computers more and more.
 
It’s unlikely that Apple is lying about performance on their webpage. Furthermore, all pros that have used it have raved about it, and I trust them over a Premiere Pro user, as it’s more than likely that Adobe software isn’t optimised (as usual).

Have faith.

It's not just Adobe Premier. If you run Prime95, it starts throttling almost instantaneously and drops well below 2.9. Prime95 keeps CPU load at about 98 - 99 percent. In my somewhat perfuntory testing, it oscillates between 2.2 and 2.5, sometimes dropping even below 2.2. And this is without involving the dgpu. Premier hits the processor to the max, and it leverages dgpu, which heats things up even more. Apple "pro" apps simply don't push the CPU hard enough to flesh out the disgraceful degree to which the i9 chip throttles in Apple's sexy svelte chassis.

So the disconnect here is the definition of thermal throttling. Dave2D's review was excellent, comprehensive, and unbiased. As an example of a clueless approach to things, iJustine just did a review of her new $7,700 MacBook pro. She tried to perform a throttling test. In her test, the CPU utilization never reached more than 40 percent. She also put her 2016 and 2018 laptops in her refrigerator, apparently because her audience suggested she do that. She was clearly confused by the process and the results, but she did clean out her fridge.

I also have MacBook Pro retina mid 2015. When prime95 runs, the CPU never drops below 2.6 GHz, which is 100 Hz higher than the base clock. When running other CPU intensive tasks, e.g., Handbrake, the CPU stays around 2.9 - 3.0 GHZ.

Per my earlier messages, Apple can offer a palliative in the form of a firmware update. Where less fan noise will be traded for better performance. I am pretty sure that by making the fan curve more aggressive then can at least keep the i9 around 2.6 - 2.9 GHz under full CPU load.
 
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It's not just Adobe Premier. If you run Prime95, it starts throttling almost instantaneously and drops well below 2.9. Prime95 keeps CPU load at about 98 - 99 percent. In my somewhat perfuntory testing, it oscillates between 2.2 and 2.5, sometimes dropping even below 2.2. And this is without involving the dgpu. Premier hits the processor to the max, and it leverages dgpu, which heats things up even more. Apple "pro" apps simply don't push the CPU hard enough to flesh out the disgraceful degree to which the i9 chip throttles in Apple's sexy svelte chassis.

So the disconnect here is the definition of thermal throttling. Dave2D's review was excellent, comprehensive, and unbiased. As an example of a clueless approach to things, iJustine just did a review of her new $7,700 MacBook pro. She tried to perform a throttling test. In her test, the CPU utilization never reached more than 40 percent. She also put her 2016 and 2018 laptops in her refrigerator, apparently because her audience suggested she do that. She was clearly confused by the process and the results, but she did clean out her fridge.

I also have MacBook Pro retina mid 2015. When prime95 runs, the CPU never drops below 2.6 GHz, which is 100 Hz higher than the base clock. When running other CPU intensive tasks, e.g., Handbrake, the CPU stays around 2.9 - 3.0 GHZ.

Per my earlier messages, Apple can offer a palliative in the form of a firmware update. Where less fan noise will be traded for better performance. I am pretty sure that by making the fan curve more aggressive then can at least keep the i9 around 2.6 - 2.9 GHz under full CPU load.

Fan curve changes are not required. Corrected TDP based throttling is.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-thermal-issues.2128055/page-56#post-26270316

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...scussion-merged.2127869/page-33#post-26270478

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...scussion-merged.2127869/page-34#post-26270556
 
Holy ****. If I read that corretly, one would have to adjust via windows for the best performance, correct?
So it is basically proof of what I was saying that 'turbo boost' limiting can lower temps and improve performance ...
 
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They will probably tweak both. Fan response is clearly off. Although I suppose it could be off because of the i9's erratic behavior. A am getting the feeling that Apple rushed these. Probably because everybody and their grandmother was shaming them for falling behind Dell and the rest.

By the way, Dave2D just did a review of Acer's new Helios 500. He claims that it's i9 done right. Of course the laptop is the size of a small armored vehicle and has the aesthetic appeal of a gasoline can. But still...
 
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They will probably tweak both. Fan response is clearly off. Although I suppose it could be off because of the i9's erratic behavior. A am getting the feeling that Apple rushed these. Probably because everybody and their grandmother was shaming them for falling behind Dell and the rest.

By the way, Dave2D just did a review of Acer's new Helios 500. He claims that it's i9 done right. Of course the laptop is the size of a small armored vehicle and has the aesthetic appeal of a gasoline can. But still...

It’s a massive mess up either way. Apple released it in the state it’s in and it’s not cool (pun semi-intended) but at least it looks like there’s a way it can perform reasonably for its form factor.
 
It’s a massive mess up either way. Apple released it in the state it’s in and it’s not cool (pun semi-intended) but at least it looks like there’s a way it can perform reasonably for its form factor.
No, if it is just a few "tweaks" and it works 20% better... then it is a short-term PR disaster -- and mostly with people that would not have bought the machine anyway (many non-Mac users are going crazy) - the people that NEED it ... are making longer-term decisions based on how it fits into their professional workflow.

Also remember this is mostly focused on CPU performance, not SSD performance (which is one thing really really really important to me), or memory focused (i.e. really needed the 32GB) -- both of which were never considered a problem with this release.

A major disaster would be the whole line permanently pooched and having to way 18 months for a hardware fix.
 
No, if it is just a few "tweaks" and it works 20% better... then it is a short-term PR disaster -- and mostly with people that would not have bought the machine anyway (many non-Mac users are going crazy) - the people that NEED it ... are making longer-term decisions based on how it fits into their professional workflow.

Also remember this is mostly focused on CPU performance, not SSD performance (which is one thing really really really important to me), or memory focused (i.e. really needed the 32GB) -- both of which were never considered a problem with this release.

A major disaster would be the whole line permanently pooched and having to way 18 months for a hardware fix.

These machines weren’t, and aren’t, performing properly. As it turns out the work to make them do so is software/firmware work and I’m glad about that. They should be right around the CPU performance of anything else in the form factor when (if) they get fixed. The SSD speed and extra RAM are important to me in upgrade too.

I don’t think we’re on a wildly different page here.
 
The biggest change I would make is to make the case a little thicker. Put the tried and true keys back on it and put the mag safe connector back on. Then I would use that extra space to come up with a better thermal system. Making it as thin as possible at the cost of functionality is absurd!
[doublepost=1532150406][/doublepost]
Seems people are starting to calm down and actually use their brains now. I told everyone 40 pages ago this is probably improved dramatically with a software update.

It will happen. Patience.
Except they should have tested this and made the necessary adjustments BEFORE releasing it. It’s as bad as companies selling software before it’s ready and making it work correctly after its on the market.
 
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These machines weren’t, and aren’t, performing properly. As it turns out the work to make them do so is software/firmware work and I’m glad about that. They should be right around the CPU performance of anything else in the form factor when (if) they get fixed. The SSD speed and extra RAM are important to me in upgrade too.

I don’t think we’re on a wildly different page here.
After the initial reports, I have believed there was an issue...

Repeatedly tried to indicate that it was better to wait and see and see what / if there was a reasonable resolution -- and -- that a software/firmware fix could potentially solve the issues. Yes, it might not be what everyone who is a spec junkie wants, but it is all about workflows and whether your workflow will benefit over the last years models.

The ... it doesn't work... Apple is doomed... doomed... just reminded me so much of when AMD had an issue a security backdoor hole left in a supporting chipset... and the media went crazy... AMD is doomed... doomed... they will never be able to fix it with software... they will have to recall everything... this will bankrupt them... Of course part of that buzz was those with a vested interest in short sells, but society is still tribal in nature... and for everything... which is why who actually don't use Apple products was going nuts with Apple is doomed.

It is always best to test, evaluate, question... wait for a response (maybe let Apple know you are planning to return the product pending on the resolution and asking how long until you must return - 2 weeks is all about informing apple about intent not necessarily requiring the actual return by that date)... then make an informed decision.
 
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Seems people are starting to calm down and actually use their brains now. I told everyone 40 pages ago this is probably improved dramatically with a software update.

It will happen. Patience.

I expected they’d be improved too. I just thought it’d be fan curve improvements. I didn’t know that Apple generally did throttling differently (was this widely known?) differently from everyone else in smaller form factors. Hopefully they fix it soon.
 
The biggest change I would make is to make the case a little thicker. Put the tried and true keys back on it and put the mag safe connector back on. Then I would use that extra space to come up with a better thermal system. Making it as thin as possible at the cost of functionality is absurd!
[doublepost=1532150406][/doublepost]
Except they should have tested this and made the necessary adjustments BEFORE releasing it. It’s as bad as companies selling software before it’s ready and making it work correctly after its on the market.
Should of, could of, would of... but often isn't... it is why we have phrases like "teething problems"
 
The biggest change I would make is to make the case a little thicker. Put the tried and true keys back on it and put the mag safe connector back on. Then I would use that extra space to come up with a better thermal system. Making it as thin as possible at the cost of functionality is absurd!
[doublepost=1532150406][/doublepost]
Except they should have tested this and made the necessary adjustments BEFORE releasing it. It’s as bad as companies selling software before it’s ready and making it work correctly after its on the market.
This isn’t Neverland. We live in reality.
 
After the initial reports, I have believed there was an issue...

Repeatedly tried to indicate that it was better to wait and see and see what / if there was a reasonable resolution -- and -- that a software/firmware fix could potentially solve the issues. Yes, it might not be what everyone who is a spec junkie wants, but it is all about workflows and whether your workflow will benefit over the last years models.

The ... it doesn't work... Apple is doomed... doomed... just reminded me so much of when AMD had an issue a security backdoor hole left in a supporting chipset... and the media went crazy... AMD is doomed... doomed... they will never be able to fix it with software... they will have to recall everything... this will bankrupt them... Of course part of that buzz was those with a vested interest in short sells, but society is still tribal in nature... and for everything... which is why who actually don't use Apple products was going nuts with Apple is doomed.

It is always best to test, evaluate, question... wait for a response (maybe let Apple know you are planning to return the product pending on the resolution and asking how long until you must return - 2 weeks is all about informing apple about intent not necessarily requiring the actual return by that date)... then make an informed decision.

You may be targeting the wrong demographic with me. I’ve been called an Apple fanboy here more times than I can remember. I’m not, but I’ve been called it.

Now that things are clearer, and when everything shakes out, I may consider an i7 2.6 or even an i9 if it makes sense. I took a fair amount of crap tonight for just even bringing this to the MBP forum. Read on from the below o_O

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...scussion-merged.2127869/page-32#post-26270367
 
So should I keep the i9 I have arriving on the 31st July and wait for a software/firmware update?
Or should I return and reorder the i7??

Hmmmm......
 
You may be targeting the wrong demographic with me. I’ve been called an Apple fanboy here more times than I can remember. I’m not, but I’ve been called it.

Now that things are clearer, and when everything shakes out, I may consider an i7 2.6 or even an i9 if it makes sense. I took a fair amount of crap tonight for just even bringing this to the MBP forum. Read on from the below o_O

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...scussion-merged.2127869/page-32#post-26270367
Na, I don't think I was targeting you... in fact, I don't bother with "names" since... but there are many here I was targetting directly - the rest I was just trying to insert some patience... and common sense.

I like the Helios?? laptop video a few pages back... i9 done right... 45 minutes of battery (or 3 hours while browsing)... 4kg in weight (more weight than damaged my vertebrae)... if that is a laptop done right... then I want it done 'wrong' like Apple does it.
 
So should I keep the i9 I have arriving on the 31st July and wait for a software/firmware update?
Or should I return and reorder the i7??

Hmmmm......

I don’t think anyone can give you a definitive answer right now. If you’re planning on a) running crushing benchmarks and fretting or b) your actual work involves very heavy multithreaded cpu work for extended periods I’d lean toward returning and waiting and seeing the response. However I don’t think my own requirements (lots of threads and RAM, but not massive CPU utilization) would be a big issue with the current situation would end up being a problem. YMMV, basically.
 
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So should I keep the i9 I have arriving on the 31st July and wait for a software/firmware update?
Or should I return and reorder the i7??

Hmmmm......
I would take almost the 2 weeks (since it is on order), then call Apple and say you have an issue but it is pending resolution... basically leave it to Apple on how long you have until you return it (i.e. get an RMA or whatever Apple refers to it with a when you must return it). If the fix is not out by that date, I would err on caution and return it... you can always order it again after the resolution is known and what the results are.
 
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I was just going to post this video. It seems there is more to this story. I think Apple are being unfairly criticised.
I think the criticism of Apple is fair for the most part -- but many have taken the issues that were raised and have overreacted in a manner lacking any common sense as to helpfulness nor informativeness. The issues need to be addressed.
 
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