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YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues
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Please try to find less rude ways to express your opinions. Even when they're wrong, as in this instance, they're much less likely to irritate. Thanks.
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All snide remarks aside ... it’s becoming very obvious that the engineers did NOT do enough to avoid severe or significant throttling since many of the Apple purchasing community is discovering many of he same issue under orrery quick tests.
Apple has been made to make product mistakes and soon make adjustments. The 17” PowerBook G4 had 3, maybe 4 iterations surviving under 2yrs before the product was pulled. That was prior to 2007.
Clearly not pro enough.
Are you justifying your purchase decision or is this just a position you've taken?
Apple had so many GPU repair programs not without reason. Most of GPU failures occured after some time so it is obvious that thermal stress on PCB was a main cause (assuming that Apple or rather Foxconn and Pegatron control well PCB assembly process according to Apple guidelines). PCB should not to be poorly constructed to be fragile. In case of multilayer and very dense board with a lot of microvias that corrode over a time each heat / cool cycle make a mechanical stress so PCB is working like a bow expanding and contracting. 100C for a laminate is not a big deal but for a consumer home product is a high temperature. In automotive temp 125C is a upper limit. All tests prove that limiting TDP not only reduce CPU temperature but also increase performance and make it stable over a time under constant load. With so tiny and ultralight heatsink and alu case that conduct heat so well they should limit TDP and stop simulating that such thin laptop is a powerful prosumer laptop that can replace workstation and can handle i9 without problems. Long time ago I made an experiment putting extremely large aluminium heatsink designed for industrial thyristors to AMD K7 CPU 75W. Such large and heavy passive cooling were not able to dissipate heat from CPU without active cooling. Apple wants to dissipate heat via thin enclosure. This laptop is for light productivity tools or for webrowsing and that is it. Possibly that is why the cooling system is only a limit. I suppose that Apple assume that load will be under short peaks of time and ambient temperature is different in every country. Generally such approach with valley and peaks may generate a good avg benchmark result in some conditions. Unfortunately they did not take into consideration that nowadays some portals not only perform benchmark tests but also go more in depth. Also customers expect a stable performance not just browsing several tabs in webrowser. To conclude: even in my old 2008 Early MBP with T8300 Intel Penryn 45W TDP I had never saw CPU temp close to 100 Celcius degrees under heavy gaming or Cinebench (around 72C). Now in 2018 someone wants to tell us that 100-105 Celcius for CPU is a normal temperature and nothing wrong in laptop. Even if this is a cost of multiple cores something went wrong and we can talk about real product regression in case of thermals. In 2018 year CPU temps should be around 50-70 Celcius far from temperature shutdown limit and max temp of core. We talk about mobile devices that should be not only cooler but also energy efficient with power draw decreasing year by year. Currently we step back to laptops with large power adapters 100 Watts or more. This is madness and we made a step back in so many aspects that performance benefit from multicore is questionable.
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LOL, “not pro enough” LOL LOL LOL. First off you have no idea who are are talking to or what I do. Secondly, I didn’t buy the i9. I bought the i7, cause it too is “pro enough”. If you have enough talent it isn’t dependent solely on your tech. If you can’t do amazing work with even a 4 year old machine I’m afraid it is you that isn’t “pro enough”.
Yeah. It's because Apple doesn't care anymore about Intel's latest dumpster fire of a CPU, or Intel in general. This is probably the last x86 Macbook Pro, I doubt there will be one next year, and we all know we'll be getting a redesigned chassis in 2020 which hopefully will include an Apple CPU and Apple GPU, if they manage to pull it off in time
Their engineers are hard at work on the next Macbook Pro, they don't have the time to deal with this crap. Intel underperformed - these CPUs are 18 months late and they were supposed to be 10nm, cool and efficient. They're not. After 18 months delay Intel still needed more time, AMD is knocking at the door so what do they do? They add more cores to their existing CPUs and call it a day. This isn't Intel next step, it's their "OMFG what do we do" plan B.
Apple won't redesign the chassis and make a thicc ass laptop just for this year alone. They're moving on.
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Unfortunate, but true. I do genuinely feel sorry for Intel - if Krzanich is to be believed, they basically bit off more than they could chew for the 10nm node, and their over-ambition is now costing them dearly. This gen of chips overshooting their advertised TDP so badly really puts it firmly in the bodge category. With the ARM transition looming and all the other myriad issues, I am really reluctant to invest what apple are asking into one of these computers.
If the PCB was the main cause of the GPU failures, then the industry and Apple as a whole should be littered with CPU failures as well.
Honestly gave up on reading the thread so not sure if this has been discussed, but 20% performance gains by limiting TDP to the intended 45W spec.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...e-performance-with-a-few-clicks.317552.0.html
That should make for a pretty beneficial firmware update.
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Which is why I was making fun of you, "big guy". If you recall, it was you that started dropping those degrees out there. I just thought it was funny.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...e-performance-with-a-few-clicks.317552.0.html
That should make for a pretty beneficial firmware update.
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Which is why I was making fun of you, "big guy". If you recall, it was you that started dropping those degrees out there. I just thought it was funny.
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You do realize others have used other apps and even just running benchmarking software all are seeing this. And, the same issue is seen in Windows thin laptops too!
It's not in the software...
While Apple can do a tweak here and there to the fans. It still comes down to limitation of the systems design and its' cooling.
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If the "Helios done right in regards to the i9" with 45 minutes of the battery (3 hours if browsing the web), 4kg massive chassis (which could logically consist of a kg of heatsink at that weight since the MacBook Pro is 2kg - and - BTW the massive Noctual DH-15S is just slightly more than that)... then the i9 is not a laptop CPU at full power... though at limited power (i.e.45 TDP as spec'd) with those same tweaks ... it could easily be the most powerful laptop that someone would reasonably not mind carrying around on their shoulder.
Not PCB but thermal (mechanical) stress on PCB so BGA solder joints between pads crack. In case of famous faulty NVidia G84 chips the crack were between GPU core die and substrate laminate. Some chips loose connection between substrate laminate PCB and mainboard PCB. If you tolerate temps about 100 C it is your choice but as I higlighted this is step back in some area. Old Toshiba Satellite P150 with Pentium IV 3.0 GHz Prescott had such temps.
eDegrees are worth no more than the paper they are issued on
BTW, I have 2 PhDs. The first is in Plasma Physics and Nuclear Fusion, the second in Tauri Stercus.
Well... I don't think we need that big a system to get this to work!
Lets say we used the older Unibody frame which has a better thought out cooling design that should do it! Still a very portable size and the thickness offers the needed space for the needed cooling! The weight will likely go up but not that much higher from what the Unibody weighs.
Between using a 3 fan solution (yes 3) two dedicated to the CPU alone. Then using a side venting overhang design so the air is coming in more on the sides and venting out the back without the hinge interfering at it does now will solve the air intake and heat exhaust. The next trick is the mass of the heat sink does need to be bigger and needs to be 100% Copper. The heat pipes need to be bigger and you might want to add one more as well. The last part here is the fins need to have larger surface area of the face of the fin to improve heat transference. How you do this and with what material is something I can't get into here. The end result is gaining around 20% thermal convection for the same surface area and without loosing significant airflow.
So here's the layout: Place the side vents on the front left and right sides. Mount the batteries to the bottom cover frame so the air travels across the top palm areas and across the logic board picking up the general components heat. From the same side vents a second channel drives air directly to the dedicated CPU fans left & right heatsink fins. The center fan is used to cool the GPU using the logic board air flows.
I would also look at redesigning the fan's. Muffin fan design while good, does not scale well. The smaller the fan gets it looses its efficiency. A driven turbine design for the same size will deliver more CFM but can be very noisy! The trick is to design a quite turbofan. Both GE and Rolls-Royce have improved the noice levels of their latest jet engines with great success! In addition some vacuum cleaners have some nice mini turbo designs which could be used as a framework. Some of the tricks they have tested might in fact also work here. I know it does appear to be a stretch! But it's taking ideas from other disciplines thats going to make the difference.
Jon Ives MacBook look and feel can still be maintained with its smooth lines from the outside. The only noticeable alteration would be the front side venting and beefier rear exhaust.
Are people seriously dropping their “alleged” degrees in this thread!? LMAO wow! Some massive insecurities flowing around here.
I knew keeping those earmuffs that were needed in the server room -- would eventually come in handy -- while working on my laptop
[doublepost=1532221445][/doublepost]Let us use some old designs like the mother of transportables... we can take the monitor out and place a fold up detachable monitor... along with detachable keyboard... a nice DH-15 Noctua Heatsink with nice fans... and you have your power portable that every professional would drool over...
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It’s baaaaaaaaack
https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-power-gadget-20
https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-power-gadget-20
None of these applications have been optimised for the new MacBook Pro. Read this article - when the companies that write these applications say, 'Oh, we haven't updated our apps for the new MacBook Pro yet, so the scores might not be reliable,' then I think that says it all.
Marques Brownlee found that rendering out a video to ProRes was 15% faster than the 2017 MacBook Pro. Faster. Not slower. Personally, that's all I need to use the MacBook Pro for: FCPX and 4K timelines (3 cameras and up to 12 audio streams). I'm not in it for what the CPU does, or what's going on behind the scenes with numbers, I'm in it for real world examples of how this can speed up my workflows, and as I'm coming from a 2011 17" MacBook Pro, as I currently do all of my editing on the iMac Pro, I can safely say that it's going to be monstrously faster than my current option.
Apple isn't going to release an i9 that doesn't reach their test scores, and it's clearly completely different to what the YouTubers are reporting with the exception of Marques and Jonathan Morrison's 'Everyone is wrong about the i9 MacBook Pro' video... these guys are basically discussing my points. 15% faster over the i7 in pretty much everything. That's about what I expected when I bought it. It's not even that expensive for the upgrade either in comparison to the upgrades that you need to make with the iMac Pro...
Anyways, appreciate the conversation, but I am happy with the i9... maybe Apple will make the next MacBook Pro bigger, but they're still smashing it in the video world with FCPX... gotta love them!
Read the above post. It's still a beast, and it's still faster than the i7. As you've mentioned, it's the same with all thin laptops, but the fake news about the i7 being faster has been disproven and the i9 is performing really well in real world terms.
I knew keeping those earmuffs that were needed in the server room -- would eventually come in handy -- while working on my laptop
[doublepost=1532221445][/doublepost]Let us use some old designs like the mother of transportables... we can take the monitor out and place a fold up detachable monitor... along with detachable keyboard... a nice DH-15 Noctua Heatsink with nice fans... and you have your power portable that every professional would drool over...
Gee, I had one of these!
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There just to many people who don't want to believe Apple blew it! Which is sad... While some want to blame the messenger because he makes a living reviewing stuff on YouTube for the sake of click bait the same can be said for the publications like Computerworld as well. The argument of software optimization as the root of all of this is just too much! So the 6 core i9 is so radically different than the i7 which does not encounter the issue, Come on! Each progression of i series CPU has needed more cooling (either core number and/or clocking) why would it be different here?
So if you are not rendering vids or any other heavy lifting with your system the i9 will be just fine. But, at that point you might have saved the i9 upgrade cost and stuck with the one of the i7 models instead.
I do a lot of photography and needed to replace my aging 17" MacBook Pro i7 while this system still wouldn't fit my needs and wishes I could force my self into using it. I was planing on getting one but thats off now if I do it will be one of the i7 models at least they have 6 cores as well!
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Gee, I had one of these!
[doublepost=1532225628][/doublepost]
There just to many people who don't want to believe Apple blew it! Which is sad... While some want to blame the messenger because he makes a living reviewing stuff on YouTube for the sake of click bait the same can be said for the publications like Computerworld as well. The argument of software optimization as the root of all of this is just too much! So the 6 core i9 is so radically different than the i7 which does not encounter the issue, Come on! Each progression of i series CPU has needed more cooling (either core number and/or clocking) why would it be different here?
So if you are not rendering vids or any other heavy lifting with your system the i9 will be just fine. But, at that point you might have saved the i9 upgrade cost and stuck with the one of the i7 models instead.
I do a lot of photography and needed to replace my aging 17" MacBook Pro i7 while this system still wouldn't fit my needs and wishes I could force my self into using it. I was planing on getting one but thats off now if I do it will be one of the i7 models at least they have 6 cores as well!
What is also sad is those that cannot accept that it could work fine for one workflow, and not for another workflow - and still be better than the next level down. We have people on both sides that say, watch this -- and then -- some on one side say... they are obviously he is using it wrong... And vice-versa we have a video of another showing for his workflow - it is substantially faster than other alternatives... and the crowd on the other side says - must be fake -- fake news...
In the real world where hopefully there are some normal people with common sense going who look at it and say - for my usage ... is it worth it, is it better than another alternative. Many on here are a microcosm of the insanity that infects the world these days.
In the real world - people should only really be interested in their own cost/benefit analysis ...
The world is full of crazy and demented people ...