ZAGG InvisibleSHIELD Heat Issue

Discussion in 'MacBook Air' started by akcarrington, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. akcarrington, Feb 24, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012

    akcarrington macrumors newbie

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    #1
    I have recently fitted the ZAGG InvisibleSHIELD to my 2011 11-inch MacBook Air (i7 1.8 GHz) and started noticing my base was pretty warm. I had a look online about any heat issues with the InvisibleSHIELD and found this thread but struggled to get any definitive feedback from anyone else noticing a heat issue.

    I eventually managed to find another who noticed the heat and monitored the before and after installation temperatures with worrying results, and I quote:

    "My CPU temps were seriously high, something around 85 °C, while only idling"

    "I immediately pulled the ZAGG from the base of the my MacBook and it now idles at a whopping 10-15 °C below"

    This has got to be more critical with the heat damaging the 11-inch MacBook Air but the 13-inch can't really escape. Other aluminum MacBooks should consider the finding on this blog and perhaps do some digging around for advice. It hardly needs saying I have removed all of the InvisibleSHIELD from my new shiny peice of aluminum.

    Please read this guys blog for more detailed info:

    http://lightinvisishieldpoint.blogspot.com/2011/03/zagg-invisibleshield-for-apple-macbook_13.html
     
  2. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #2
    I've never used them. Do they block the air vents at the rear, near the hinge? That's the only way I can see them affecting temps.
     
  3. akcarrington thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #3
    More likely prone with MacBook Air Models

    No but the casing is used to distribute heat, I am no expert but I have really noticed a big change in the heat on the base of my 11-inch MB Air. I also spoke with AppleCare in Ireland earlier today who confirmed that the ZAGG InvisibleSHIELD 'will more than likely' create overheating and exceed the heat tolerances for particular models. I just feel better safe than sorry when considering the £1400 purchase cost.

    Quoted from: http://lightinvisishieldpoint.blogspot.com/2011/03/zagg-invisibleshield-for-apple-macbook_13.html

    "At first, this may sound ridiculous, so I'll explain. The MacBook aluminum casing acts as a heat sink for critical internal components. ZAGG When you apply, it acts as an insulator for which no air can enter the aluminum casing of the MacBook to reach. If you think, should not that much difference, no! My CPU temps were seriously high, something around 85 ° C, while only idling. I started thinking about things and started to wonder if the insulation was ZAGG. Sure enough, I found someone on the forum who said Apple MacBook Air temps have increased since the installation of ZAGG"
     
  4. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #4
    Heat radiates in all directions, and since aluminum conducts heat efficiently, you feel the heat more on the skin than you would with other laptop body materials. But it is not used to distribute heat. Some heat is dissipated through the body, but that is incidental. The primary cooling conduit is the vents.
    Since air can't penetrate the aluminum casing, anyway, adding another layer shouldn't make any difference.
     
  5. TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    #5
    I call BS. I haven't used that specific brand, but have used skins from Wrapsol and iCarbons on several Airs. I don't see any different in the heat or temperature of the unit.
     
  6. 2IS macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Aluminum conducts heat and dissipates heat quite efficiently. Whether or not that was the intended design is irrelevant, its the physical nature of the material.

    That said, using your lap, hand or other parts of your body as a thermometer isn't really accurate. Monitoring the CPU temp before and after applying the wrap under the same conditions (ambient temp + load) is.
     
  7. crspechicn macrumors newbie

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    Jan 3, 2011
    #7
    Its like wearing a jacket in the winter -- the jacket slows the heat loss from your body surface. The invisibleshield is going to slow the heat loss from the aluminum to the ambient air, so if Apple depended on the aluminum body to act as somewhat of a heatsink in their design, you are reducing the effectiveness of the heatsink.

    That being said, the best way to check is just to measure temps before and after installation.

    I wouldn't think it would be a huge deal, since the main cooling is through the vents, which remain uncovered.
     
  8. fabian9 macrumors 65816

    fabian9

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    #8
    Whether it was intended to dissipate heat or not, it does, so adding an insulating material will of course cause the internal temperature to increase.

    As a mechanical engineer who has done a lot of thermal analyses on electronic products in the past, I would be VERY surprised if Apple worked on the assumption that the case does not dissipate heat.
     
  9. TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Clearly Apple has done nothing to quench the thriving industry in cases and skins, which I would think would be high on their list of priorities if said add-ons would cause issues.
     
  10. 2IS macrumors 68030

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    #10
    Again, you can't argue physics, well you can, but you'd be wrong. There is really no question that the aluminum casing dissipates heat. There is also no question that covering it with an insulating material will retard that heat dissipation. The only real question is whether or not it will cause an issue, and this will vary on a case by case basis which will depend on ambient operating conditions and the load on the machine itself.

    I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that when I'm doing something like skyping or watching an HD stream, my MBA runs a LOT hotter when it's on my bed than it is when it's on a table. Neither condition blocks the exhaust vent in anyway, but on a table there is a gap on the bottom allowing for heat to escape (by radiating out from the aluminum bottom) and on the bed there is not. Heat can be transferred through radiation, convection and conduction so you don't need air to "penetrate the aluminum casing" like was mentioned before.
     
  11. TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    #11
    OK. But I'm guessing the industrial engineers at Apple have this covered. Or maybe you know more.
     
  12. 2IS, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012

    2IS macrumors 68030

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    #12
    What I know is that you're guessing. (by your own admission) and I'm not.

    If the engineers had every avenue covered, there would not have been any antenna issue wit the iPhone 4 and no overheating issues with the original MBA. So instead of thinking about what you're saying, you just choose to ignore basic physical concepts and blindly assume the engineers built the MBA to compensate for every 3rd party add-on available and still function as intended.

    Your position on the matter is about as baseless as it gets. If you understood the basic concepts of the different ways heat is transferred, we would not be having this discussion.

    If you want to choose they have this "covered" because you have one installed, that's your prerogative. Just know that what you would like to believe and what actually is could be quite different.
     
  13. TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    #13
    OK. You know more than the thousands of engineers who design these things. I got it. Thanks for your expertise.
     
  14. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #14
    I can't count the number of "experts" who have posted in this forum, claiming to know more than Apple. Who knows? Maybe someday one of them will! :rolleyes:
     
  15. 2IS, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2012

    2IS macrumors 68030

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    #15
    I'd like you to point me to where you got this info. Where did apple engineers claim that the thermal design of the MBA is such that it can be wrapped with no detrimental effect? If you can't show me this, then please **** because you're just running off at the mouth and making things up with nothing but your misguided opinion to back it up.
     
  16. TheRealDamager, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2012

    TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    #16
    The point, clearly, is that Apple sells many cases in their own store, and knows that dozens of sellers sell skins, which they have not said a word against. The point is also that many, many people on this site have used skins for years with absolutely no effect whatsoever (other than protecting from scratches). You are making assertions which have no logical support. I'm not trying to convince you (that's clearly not going to happen) - just trying to avoid you from steering others with your misguided opinions.
     
  17. MBHockey, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2012

    MBHockey macrumors 68040

    MBHockey

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    #17
    Nailed it. Aluminum conducts heat very well which is a major reason it is used for the casing. It's laughable to think that it doesn't contribute to heat dissipation or that insulating it will not cause the computer to retain more heat prompting the fans to spin at a faster rate.

    2IS, this is something GGJ seems to continually fail to understand -- when one's position opposes logic and reason then it is he or she who bears the burden of proof.

    GGJ, when you say things like:

    ...It makes me feel bad for waves of science teachers that had the impossible task of getting anything through to you during your schooling. It also let's me feel entirely comfortable disregarding anything you ever say.

    I'm only being hard on you because you keep participating in threads like this where it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. You're not helping anyone and I wish you'd stop already.
     
  18. 2IS macrumors 68030

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    #18
    They also sell iPhone cases that make my iPhone not work with many docking ports. What does that mean? There are also those that have wrapped their MBA's and DID notice increase in temps. What does that mean?

    Logical support? Please do yourself a favor and look up convention conduction and radiation. You seriously have not got a clue as to what you're talking about. I'm saying that it can make the MBA run hotter and it does, not that it's going to melt in in a glob of molten metal.

    There's nothing misguided about it, it WILL make it run hotter, no ifs ands or buts about it. You reduce cooling capacity and it will run hotter. Fact.

    I'm still waiting for that engineer statement... You seemed so confidant that it was out there. Lets see it? Surely you didn't just make that up?
     
  19. GGJstudios, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012

    GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #19
    You need to go back and read and comprehend the original post that I quoted and responded to. The OP's original statement: "for which no air can enter the aluminum casing of the MacBook to reach." is what I was responding to. No air can penetrate the casing, with or without a cover. That is a fact, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you care to prove that air can penetrate the aluminum casing or the ZAGG shield, I'd love to see it!

    I never said that aluminum doesn't dissipate heat. Please quote where I did.

    The fact remains that Apple portables do not rely on the casing being uncovered to maintain temperatures within a safe operating range. The fans and vents alone can keep temps at a safe level. If covering the casing caused overheating or was a threat to safe operation, Apple would state that fact and would void their warranty coverage if a skin was applied.
    I aced all my science classes, thanks. I also did well in reading comprehension! :rolleyes:
     
  20. KingJosh macrumors 6502

    KingJosh

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    Jan 11, 2012
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    Australia
    #20
    well it is basic logic that more layers = more insulation = more heat.

    The invisibleshield is very thick so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a heat issue. If I were you I would just buy a nice neoprene carry case and use the laptop with care so you don't get it damaged
     
  21. YosemiteSam81 macrumors member

    YosemiteSam81

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    Jan 7, 2012
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    Great Lakes
    #21
    I have been running my MBA for about two months with the InvisibleShield and have not noticed any heat issues save for when I stream on Chrome.

    It does make sense however since it insulates the aluminum.
     
  22. TheRealDamager macrumors 65816

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    Jan 5, 2011
    #22
    Settle down ladies. I have no interest in having a prolonged pissing match, since none of us can PROVE **** on these forums. All I need to know is that Apple seems fine with people skinning their machines (if you feel differently please feel free to post the proof), and that I've skinned aluminum macbooks for years with absolutely no effect.

    Is it possible it makes a theoretic increase in temps? Sure. Does that mean anything in real world usage. No.

    If you feel differently, feel free to provide evidence to back up your broad statements of harm due to "physics".
     
  23. 2IS macrumors 68030

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    #23
    Yeah that statement by him made me laugh too. I wasn't going to say anything aimed directly towards him until he posted back with more nonsense. I'm by no means a science/physics expert but I know enough to have a concept of how the world around me works. But I suppose some people will continue to think that if they can buy it, there must be no side-effects to it.
     
  24. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #24
    You apparently didn't comprehend, either. Please quote where I posted nonsense.
     
  25. 2IS macrumors 68030

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    #25
    MBHockey already quoted your nonsense verbatim, please refer to his post for the answer to your question.

    I clearly said that whether or not the temp increase will cause an issue is going to vary on a case by case basis. And yes, we can very easily prove it. The OP already noticed the temp increase and has done his own research and found others who had temp increases that were dramatic enough to cause problems. When you're hitting temps of over 85C the CPU is going to throttle and you're going to lose performance. And if you think throttling is not an issue when hitting high temps like that, just ask original MBA owners... You know, the model where the engineers didn't think of everything.

    Now if you're not doing anything heavy enough to reach those high temps, then good on you. You have nothing to worry about except a warmer running MBA. To dismiss the possibility outright that it can cause issues however is nothing short of ignorant.

    You don't need to quote the word physics either. Its a phenomenon that actually exists.
     

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