ZAGG InvisibleSHIELD Heat Issue

[GGJstudios]

Yeah, you keep using that line and it is just as meaningless now as it was the first time you said it. How about you just refer to post #65.

I'm not going to continue this pointless quibbling with you. Why? Because you repeatedly misquote me or misrepresent my statements or position, then fail to prove your claims by quoting my posts when challenged. These inaccuracies are evident to anyone with basic reading comprehension.

Anyone who reads what has been posted so far can clearly see that using the shields or skins is not harmful and will not significantly increase temperatures, despite what a few individuals may claim. Any reader can choose to believe you and one or two others, or they can believe Apple and the millions who buy and use these products without incident. There is nothing in post #65 that mentions or refers to "primary cooling source", as you contended that I supposedly think this thread is about.

There was no "pictorial proof" of anything incidental.

The pictorial proof showed that Mac notebooks do not vent through the keyboard, as was falsely claimed. Apparently you missed or misunderstood the point being addressed.

This began with YOUR claim of "incidental" cooling. You have failed to prove that any cooling that takes place beyond the fan alone, is incidental. You can dance around that all you want, but you made the claim, and you've failed to prove it.

The fact that millions run with skins or shields on their Mac notebooks without overheating proves it to anyone with basic reasoning skills. The fact that Apple sells such products, rather than claiming that their use would void their warranty is further evidence. I offered you a chance to prove it for yourself, with a "science project" but you declined, preferring to argue your case rather than recognize what is painfully obvious to most.

incidental |ˌinsiˈdentl|
adjective
1 accompanying but not a major part of something

If you shut down the fans or block the vents, a Mac will quickly overheat. If you cover the body with a skin or shield, it will not. It's quite clear to those with even limited technical expertise which is major and which is minor when it comes to cooling.

At this point, I highly encourage you to believe whatever you choose to believe (since you will, anyway). At least enough accurate information has been posted here to prevent those who carefully read this thread from being misled by your unsubstantiated claims. My goal has not been to convince you of anything, since it's quite apparent that you choose to cling to your own beliefs, but my intent is to protect others from being misled by your statements. I believe that anyone who reads all of this thread can decide for themselves whether they can use these skins or shields without worrying about a significant or dangerous increase in temperatures.

 

[2IS]

So you can't prove your claim. That's what I thought too.

 

[jsolares]

Throttling doesn't occur unless extreme demand is placed on system resources. Throttling doesn't happen under average users' normal workloads.

It wasn't venting through the keyboard, regardless of what you may think or claim. No Apple notebook has ever used the keyboard as a vent, and yours is no different.

No one is claiming or believing that Apple, it's products or its engineers are without imperfections. However, they are certainly a far more credible authority on this topic than anyone posting in this forum.

Extreme demands? throttling should only happen when your cooling apparatus fails, be it the fan, thermal compound application, etc.
So that your equipment doesn't die from fan failure.

It's not supposed to happen under 100% load with proper cooling.

What does venting mean to you? that 100% of intended air flow is going where it was designed? if so then yeah it's might not be venting, but air is coming out of the keyboard in that machine in some parts, to me that is venting.

No one in this thread, including you, has provided any proof that using a covering over the body of a Mac notebook will cause a significant difference in temperatures. Millions of users of these products who haven't experienced overheating problems and the fact that Apple also sells these products provides overwhelming evidence that those "warning" about them are not credible. To further claim that a MacBook vented through the keyboard, despite clear pictorial proof to the contrary, illustrates that lack of credibility.

As i said before, the Macbook referenced does not have a sealed keyboard like the newer ones do, the difference in temperature with using a silicone keyboard on that machine caused it to throttle under full load.

Dust managed to settle between the keyboard and the silicone cover managing to smear the topcase.

And apple seems to agree on the keyboard thing...

This is the last from me regarding old keyboards since that really isn't the point here.

Are the fans in the 11 and 13" different? my sis has a 11" with some kind of skin applied to it, and i have a 13" with none, if the fans are the same they should both idle at the same temps.

Edit: checked ifixit fans are not the same.

 

[iPhysicist]

IN general adding a layer of lower heat conductivity to a layer of good heat conductivity (as aluminum) the applied layer works as an insulator what will decrease the overall heat conductivity.

BUT!

The Processor is cooled via the heatsink which is directly behind the air vent so this should not increase the CPU temp by 10 to 15 °C. I can see 2 to 5°C as it would be if the MBA is heating up under direct sunlight but for the CPU it should not be that much. The Air flow (velocity) and the Air temperature are the two variables that influence cooling significantly.

Correct me if I missed the point

 

[boy-better-know]

No one is saying it's going to overheat with a fireball shooting out of the rear vent,

Neither was I? I just asked if I was correct in thinking that the fan takes care of any rise in temp. Thats all I care about really, if the machine is regulating its temp correctly, then I am happy.
I think people are bowing the entire thing out of proportion. If temps were raised to a dangerous amount then Apple would warn against skins.

 

[MacModMachine]

Yeah, you keep using that line and it is just as meaningless now as it was the first time you said it. How about you just refer to post #65.

There was no "pictorial proof" of anything incidental. It's your incidental claim that's being called into question. The fact that you still fail to realize or acknowledge this is baffling.

Or maybe you're just ignoring it because you know as well as I do that you can't prove that claim.

Here's the bottom line. This began with YOUR claim of "incidental" cooling. You have failed to prove that any cooling that takes place beyond the fan alone, is incidental. You can dance around that all you want, but you made the claim, and you've failed to prove it.

well i don't know about GGJ , but i have taken apart every apple notebook that has an intel processor several times during repairs and there is no airflow from the keyboard.

saying the keyboard is for airflow is like saying the usb ports are vents...you get the same amount of airflow , completely coincidental and not made by design.

 

[2IS]

Neither was I? I just asked if I was correct in thinking that the fan takes care of any rise in temp. Thats all I care about really, if the machine is regulating its temp correctly, then I am happy.
I think people are bowing the entire thing out of proportion. If temps were raised to a dangerous amount then Apple would warn against skins.

I know you weren't, I was mainly referring to other posts that blow what I and others are saying out of proportion like you mentioned. Yes, by in large the fan should take care of a rise in operating temperature. The debate really wasn't about whether or not the fans can cope although it got sidetracked in that direction. It started with the argument of whether or not cooling achieved through the aluminum body is or is not incidental.

well i don't know about GGJ , but i have taken apart every apple notebook that has an intel processor several times during repairs and there is no airflow from the keyboard.

saying the keyboard is for airflow is like saying the usb ports are vents...you get the same amount of airflow , completely coincidental and not made by design.

Problem is that you cannot tell by looking at pics or even taking apart a laptop if the design is intended to create a vacuum in the case and pull air in from nooks and crannies to achieve the desired airflow. Please refer to the apple link provided in post #78. Even Apple warns against covering the keyboard during use.

You know whats ironic here? The side claiming "incidental" and "apple says its ok" and "engineers know what they're doing" is also the side that:

1) Cannot prove the design is incidental
2) Cannot show where Apple says its ok
3) Are the ones actually modifying the engineered design and interpolating 1 and 2 based on what they can buy.

And the side that doesn't think everything is incidental:

1) Provided a link directly from Apple
2) Are not modifying the engineered design.

 

[fatlardo]

Ahhhh just wanted to add, I have the full body zagg on my 2010 air and no heat issues.

 

[jvmxtra]

I just wish company who is selling them does some sort of benchmark(or independent) because I really want to know if these wonderful cover will add to heat or not.

One of the reason I returned my MBP 2011 was because of inordinate amount of heat it was producing and made my trackpad sticky. To me, that is unacceptable. Given that 2012 MBA will not run as hot as that, I want to know for 100% sure whether these covers will contribute to any amount of additional unnecessary heat.(and by how much).

 

[oscolivar1]

I've had the full body Shield for 4-5 months now on my 11" air. I never knew there was a discussion about heat while using the shield until you revived the thread. Normal usage CPU runs around 45-50C or 112-122F, HD 37-40C or 99-103F, anything that stresses the CPU depending what your doing i see around 140-185F(youtube, watchespn, etc). It gets warm, but not overwhelming hot.

Im not going to add the the debate which still goes on. Enjoy the macbook air the invisible shield because i think it's the best skin...easy install, no scratches, lifetime replacement.

 

[KobeNoMeansNo]

I can confirm that the Invisible Shield does increase a laptop's temperature. I had a 2008 Macbook Aluminum wrapped and after 2 years the battery expanded to a point where the battery cover popped open and couldn't be closed. I took my Macbook to the Apple Genius Bar and they determined my battery was not part of any recalled batteries, but they couldn't figure out why it expanded. Because my laptop was out of warranty, they wanted to charge me for a new battery. After arguing with them for 5 minutes, they agreed to give me a new battery as a one-time offer.

At that point I was puzzled by why the battery would expand. It wasn't until a few months later that I realized it must have been caused by the Invisible Shield that I have covering the entire body of my laptop.

I have a Macbook Air 11" now and I still use an Invisible Shiled full-body on it as it's the most sleek protection you can buy. However, I am a little concerned with heat issues (thus I googled and found this thread). As far as the motherboard and the various components on it I believe all those have very high heat tolerance. However, the battery may bulge if it's overheated for a prolonged period of time. Since the Macbook Air is sealed, it may cause some serious issues.

I'm going to monitor the heat of my Macbook Air. I think depending on which CPU you have for the Air your scenarios may vary. If it feels too warm I will remove at least the bottom piece of the shield.

My 2008 Macbook Aluminum did have a hard drive, as opposed to a flash drive, so that also may have contributed to an increase in temperature.

Hope this settles all the debates you folks have been having.

 

[GGJstudios]

At that point I was puzzled by why the battery would expand.

Batteries can expand when they're defective. They can also expand near the end of their life. It has nothing to do with heat. Skins, shields and keyboard covers will somewhat impede heat dissipation, but not to the extent that it will cause damage to any components.

 

[2IS]

Batteries can expand when they're defective. They can also expand near the end of their life. It has nothing to do with heat. Skins, shields and keyboard covers will somewhat impede heat dissipation, but not to the extent that it will cause damage to any components.

Yeah, and they can also expand with heat so how do you know it has nothing to do with it? Oh thats right. You like to pass off your opinion as fact.

 

[GGJstudios]

Yeah, and they can also expand with heat so how do you know it has nothing to do with it? Oh thats right. You like to pass off your opinion as fact.

What I stated was not opinion. It is fact. Name one case where a Mac notebook battery expanded because of heat during normal operations, without being defective. Just one.

 

[2IS]

What I stated was not opinion. It is fact. Name one case where a Mac notebook battery expanded because of heat during normal operations, without being defective. Just one.

Fact doesn't mean what you think it means. It's not a fact when you don't know what caused it and are simply guessing. I'm not saying heat DID cause it, I'm saying YOU don't know that it didn't. What I can tell you is that I deal with LiPo batteries a LOT and they DO expand with excess heat. They also expand with excessive discharging and as they age, they become more sensitive to both heat and discharging. Combine all those factors together (age, heat, discharging) and heat can EASILY be a factor.

What you're saying is you have a magic 8 ball that won't tell you what caused it but will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt it wasn't heat? Right.