iPod touch Zune HD now available for preorder!

[FSMBP]

I just stopped right here...

I have a MacPRo, macbook pro, iphone 2g, 3g, Ipod touch 1st gen, 3 ipod nanos (different gens) .... yeah I hate APPLE... lmao...

I 'll buy one the day it comes out... you know why? Because it looks better than my ipod touch... that's why.

So I'm guessing you love Mac OS X as you bought an expensive Mac Pro/MBP...why would you buy a device that doesn't run on OS X? You can't sync with a Mac.

You can run VMware but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a well integrated music device?

 

[cenetti]

Zune pass is way better than anything out there. I wish Itunes had subscription .

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

I don't think you understood.

Its unlimited songs, just 10 you can keep and transfer to other devices. The DRM locks out all the others so they're only good on the Zune they were downloaded onto.

Yes, but I'm buying stuff I don't own. If I stop paying, I'm screwed. 10 songs is what I own after I buy.

Zune pass is way better than anything out there. I wish Itunes had subscription .

Zune Pass has terrible audio quality and 10 songs per month amounts to paying $1.5 per song. iTunes charges max of $1.29.

So I'm guessing you love Mac OS X as you bought an expensive Mac Pro/MBP...why would you buy a device that doesn't run on OS X? You can't sync with a Mac.

You can run VMware but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a well integrated music device?

The Zune is not a well integrated music device. I have internet, but a crap browser (IE variant). I can watch HD videos, but only downsized to fit my screen. I have a "Marketplace" but no apps. Some integration.

 

[cenetti]

So I'm guessing you love Mac OS X as you bought an expensive Mac Pro/MBP...why would you buy a device that doesn't run on OS X? You can't sync with a Mac.

You can run VMware but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a well integrated music device?

Why would it ? I already have bootcamp on both of my machines. And Zune software works perfectly. I like to use the best money can buy. Zune is the best at this point (IMO).. plus I am tired of Iphone/touch OS.... been using them since 07... I need something different... cooler/sexier..

 

[Lancing]

Yes, but I'm buying stuff I don't own. If I stop paying, I'm screwed. 10 songs is what I own after I buy.



Zune Pass has terrible audio quality and 10 songs per month amounts to paying $1.5 per song. iTunes charges max of $1.29.

10 songs per month but basiclly yup.

It really depends how much of a music nut you are. The cost of loading up your player with thousands of different songs every month could get very prohibitive if you had to buy every single one. On the other hand if you don't have a very large music collection to start with and you happy with that then Zune pass isen't worth much to you.

 

[cenetti]

Zune Pass has terrible audio quality and 10 songs per month amounts to paying $1.5 per song. iTunes charges max of $1.29.

Ya know I have 3 ipods, touch and an iphone...
My friends Old zune 30 sounds hella better than any of my ipods...
That's my experience ....

I can have unlimited gigabytes of music for 15 bucks a month, and get to keep 10 of them forever... yeah do that wit itunes... see how much it's going to cost you... so basically I can download/rent unlimited number of songs for $5/month..And buy 10 songs for $1/each....

Better than sliced bread... I say it again, I wish Itunes had this system... I'd be all over it

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

10 songs per month but basiclly yup.

It really depends how much of a music nut you are. The cost of loading up your player with thousands of different songs every month could get very prohibitive if you had to buy every single one. On the other hand if you don't have a very large music collection to start with and you happy with that then Zune pass isen't worth much to you.

That is the view point of short-term thinking. If I want to keep my music that I already shelled out 15 bucks for, I have to pay ANOTHER 15 bucks. And again. And again. It's like buying a car, but having to pay for it again and again each month. It's not like a loan either. It's "forever".

I don't see much point if not owning the stuff I paid over the retail price for.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Ya know I have 3 ipods, touch and an iphone...
My friends Old zune 30 sounds hella better than any of my ipods...
That's my experience ....

I can have unlimited gigabytes of music for 15 bucks a month, and get to keep 10 of them forever... yeah do that wit itunes... see how much it's going to cost you...

You can't have what you don't own. Sure you get unlimited, but you have to keep paying for it. That's not unlimited, that's LIMITED.

It's cheaper if you keep paying. I don't see any point in paying monthly for something I can't fully own. And I'm paying more than retail price (iTunes songs are maximum of $1.29 per song) for something I cannot, repeat, CANNOT own.

 

[leomac08]

Zune HD is like owning a fake-Ferrari. It looks good but once you get in, you find it has no steering wheel, no engine, the seats split and you realize you are actually at the mall on a kiddie ride.

iPod touch is like owning a real Pagani Zondaf. Real engine, real chassis, real steering wheel and 60,000+ apps that work.

OMG! What a beautiful definition! (i want to cry =(.......) NICE

Zune the pure holy sexiness.... kneel down you ipod lover you...

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lancing]

That is the view point of short-term thinking. If I want to keep my music that I already shelled out 15 bucks for, I have to pay ANOTHER 15 bucks. And again. And again. It's like buying a car, but having to pay for it again and again each month. It's not like a loan either. It's "forever".

I don't see much point if not owning the stuff I paid over the retail price for.

This isen't really much of a debate.

How much do 10,000 songs cost on iTunes? How long would I need to be paying for a Zune pass to surpass that amount?

The cannot own part isen't entirely true you get 10 songs per month, which covers at least $10 of that subscription cost per month. Plus you get access to all the other music.

 

[cenetti]

You can't have what you don't own. Sure you get unlimited, but you have to keep paying for it. That's not unlimited, that's LIMITED.

I am perfectly fine with that... My new ZUNE HD 32g will be full at all times with new stuff... I like to rent movies too, not buy them...makes sense ? I like variety.. I like to hear something new all the time...

I get to choose 10 each month that I like the most and keep them forever...
better than sliced bread.... I am telling ya....

 

[FSMBP]

Why would it ? I already have bootcamp on both of my machines. And Zune software works perfectly. I like to use the best money can buy. Zune is the best at this point (IMO).. plus I am tired of Iphone/touch OS.... been using them since 07... I need something different... cooler/sexier..

I'm not arguing your preference for Zune but rationale. You can't say the Zune HD is the best because you've never used it and it seems asinine that you want it because it's "different". But that's neither here nor there.

All I'm saying is, it would be one thing if Microsoft created something original and have a great user experience. Those reasons are why Apple shot to the forefront of the MP3 business and everyone tried to imitate it.

Once again, after Apple dominates (ex. no one was all about "apps/appstore" before) and people imitate. Sure Zune added some clever features (HD radio, HD video) but it's not like it came out with this device before touchscreen media players become the norm (before Sept. 2007).

Either way, I like the Touch. It's originality, user interface (that everyone's trying to copy), Apps, and desktop software is wayyyyyyyyyy sexier

 

[Tallest Skil]

This isen't really much of a debate.

How much do 10,000 songs cost on iTunes? How long would I need to be paying for a Zune pass to surpass that amount?

The cannot own part isen't entirely true you get 10 songs per month, which covers at least $10 of that subscription cost per month. Plus you get access to all the other music.

I'd rather pay once to own a music file than to pay for all eternity with no guarantee that the DRM servers would still be working.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

This isen't really much of a debate.

How much do 10,000 songs cost on iTunes? How long would I need to be paying for a Zune pass to surpass that amount?

The cannot own part isen't entirely true you get 10 songs per month, which covers at least $10 of that subscription cost per month. Plus you get access to all the other music.

You want to test my math skills? Let's go genius.

Zune Pass is $15 per month.
You can only FULLY OWN 10 songs.
So that's $1.5 per song.

10,000 songs * $1.5 per song = $15,000


iTunes is $.69, $.99, or $1.29 per song (Heck let's use $1.29)

10,000 songs * $1.29 per song = $12,900.

Zune Pass for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $15,000
iTunes music store for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $12,900.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

I am perfectly fine with that... My new ZUNE HD 32g will be full at all times with new stuff... I like to rent movies too, not buy them...makes sense ? I like variety.. I like to hear something new all the time...

I get to choose 10 each month that I like the most and keep them forever...
better than sliced bread.... I am telling ya....

You can rent movies on iTunes for $.99 to $4.99 for HD new releases. Unless you go movie-crazy, you are paying $15 for a couple of movies. I'm not saying you aren't "perfectly-fine" with Zune Pass but pointing out the common logical fallacies people believe.

 

[Lancing]

I'd rather pay once to own a music file than to pay for all eternity with no guarantee that the DRM servers would still be working.

You can still do that. And keep in mind your still getting the 10 songs per month that you own. So when you do the math your looking at about $5 a month for the unlimited DRM library.

Zune pass is just nice because it gives you access to a library of music that would be otherwise unaffordable for most people to ever purchase.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Ya know I have 3 ipods, touch and an iphone...
My friends Old zune 30 sounds hella better than any of my ipods...
That's my experience ....

I can have unlimited gigabytes of music for 15 bucks a month, and get to keep 10 of them forever... yeah do that wit itunes... see how much it's going to cost you... so basically I can download/rent unlimited number of songs for $5/month..And buy 10 songs for $1/each....

Better than sliced bread... I say it again, I wish Itunes had this system... I'd be all over it

Wrong math. Err fantasy. Math is numbers not fantasies.

Forget the stuff you don't OWN. You pay $15 for 10 songs. That what you are paying versus what you are owning. 15/10 = 1.5. iTunes is maximum of $.129 per song, and most are either that or $.99 or even $.69.

You can still do that. And keep in mind your still getting the 10 songs per month that you own. So when you do the math your looking at about $5 a month for the unlimited DRM library.

Zune pass is just nice because it gives you access to a library of music that would be otherwise unaffordable for most people to ever purchase.

Wrong, you are paying $15 for 10 songs. Period. Unless you want to pay for something that's more expensive than retail price and NOT own it. So either you stick to the $5 for unlimited logic fallacy or admit you only pay for what you own.

 

[Lancing]

You want to test my math skills? Let's go genius.

Zune Pass is $15 per month.
You can only FULLY OWN 10 songs.
So that's $1.5 per song.

10,000 songs * $1.5 per song = $15,000


iTunes is $.69, $.99, or $1.29 per song (Heck let's use $1.29)

10,000 songs * $1.29 per song = $12,900.

Zune Pass for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $15,000
iTunes music store for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $12,900.

You forget the unlimited access to all the other music for 125 years.

 

[Lancing]

Wrong math. Err fantasy. Math is numbers not BS.

Forget the stuff you don't OWN. You pay $15 for 10 songs. That what you are paying versus what you are owning. 15/10 = 1.5. iTunes is maximum of $.129 per song, and most are either that or $.99 or even $.69.

Your assuming the DRM music has no value at all. Thats the whole point of the subscription service is access to all that other music which unless you've got $15,000 to drop on music every year its not going to happen through song purchasing.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Your assuming the DRM music has no value at all. Thats the whole point of the subscription service is access to all that other music which unless you've got $15,000 to drop on music every year its not going to happen.

In terms of pay to fully own, DRM has no value. You can't compare what you don't own to what you do own and say it's cheaper.

If I stop paying, I can only own _______ number of songs. Use that template for both Zune Pass and iTunes.

Example:

Zune Pass - If I stop paying, I can only own 10 * # of months I subscribed for number of songs.

iTunes - If I stop paying, I can only own the number of songs I paid for number of songs.

I'm not totally against Zune Pass, I think it's a great idea if you have Windows + Zune. But I just don't want to pay forever just to keep my 100,000,000 music library. I'd rather be more selective of what I buy than be careless.

 

[Lancing]

Wrong, you are paying $15 for 10 songs. Period. Unless you want to pay for something that's more expensive than retail price and NOT own it. So either you stick to the $5 for unlimited logic fallacy or admit you only pay for what you own.

By that logic theres no point in renting movies, paying insurance, paying taxes, paying for a phone line or cable tv etc as I don't own anything when I pay those. Obviously services have zero value to you.

You don't seem to understand its a subscription service for access to music like cable TV. Do you own every show and movie on your cable service every month?

 

[gan6660]

You realize you dont have to sign up for the zune pass and can buy individual songs for .99 each?

 

[Lancing]

You realize you dont have to sign up for the zune pass and can buy individual songs for .99 each?

At this point I'm very sure he knows.

The argument hes trying to push is the unlimited access to the DRM music is of zero value to anyone. Which is not going to go far unless he lives in a cave in some country with no government or services of any kind.

In that case I might understand why he'd think services have no dollar value.

 

[cenetti]

At this point I'm very sure he knows.

Of course he does

$5 for unlimited access to millions of songs.... yea well worth it to me...
But since I don't own them, he thinks it has no value...

Well, tell it to hundreds of gigs of music that's available to me at any time...
That's a service, and you pay for it... it's that simple. I don't want to keep every darn song I like to listen. I just want to listen to it... couple times or maybe couple hundred times then throw it away. If I really really really want to keep it forever...then I 'll buy it using my 10 song credit....

It's simple math .... simple system.... and way better than... You want to listen- you have to buy it crap...

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

By that logic theres no point in renting movies, paying insurance, paying taxes, paying for a phone line or cable tv etc as I don't own anything when I pay those. Obviously services have zero value to you.

You don't seem to understand its a subscription service for access to music like cable TV. Do you own every show and movie on your cable service every month?

You realize you dont have to sign up for the zune pass and can buy individual songs for .99 each?

Moot point since we are not discussing that, but of the Zune Pass subscription service. I would buy each song for .99 instead.

At this point I'm very sure he knows.

The argument hes trying to push is the unlimited access to the DRM music is of zero value to anyone. Which is not going to go far unless he lives in a cave in some country with no government or services of any kind.

In that case I might understand why he'd think services have no dollar value.

Of course he does

$5 for unlimited access to millions of songs.... yea well worth it to me...
But since I don't own them, he thinks it has no value...

Well, tell it to hundreds of gigs of music that's available to me at any time...
That's a service, and you pay for it... it's that simple. I don't want to keep every darn song I like to listen. I just want to listen to it... couple times or maybe couple hundred times then throw it away. If I really really really want to keep it forever...then I 'll buy it using my 10 song credit....

It's simple math .... simple system.... and way better than... You want to listen- you have to buy it crap...

You assume I see no point in those services. Did you bother to wait for my answer before assuming? I'm not saying it's of zero value, but that the logic you employ to justify these services is wrong. I'm not saying that the service is bad or you shouldn't use it, but you have several logical fallacies.

Let's move on and have this scenario:

What if you don't use up your 10 song store credit each month? Unless we download more than 25 songs each month (10 songs for keeps and a few more to make it worth paying $15) it's not worth it right?