iPod touch Zune HD now available for preorder!

[wywern209]

witha zune pass, you'd be paying for over 83 years for full ownership of 10k songs. the zune pass in the long run(for 10k songs) ends up being almost 50% more expensive to own all the songs than the itunes store. assuming that al the songs are .99 a song .

.99*10k= 9,900
$15/month for 10 songs on zune.
if u got 10 songs to keep forever per month, then to keep 10k songs, it would take..
10,000/10= 1,000/12months in 1 yr = 83.33* 12* $15 = $14,940
the zune pass, suddenly not soo cheap.

 

[elppa]

This is a bit of a false comparison, because for 83 years you are also getting all you can eat music, whereas with iTunes, you can only listen to what you have purchased up to that point.

The value proposition of a music pass is not just realised through the music you get keep. Also you probably make wiser purchases because there is a greater opportunity to try before you buy.

I think subscription (or free add supported) streaming services may be the way forward for most people in the future, especially when the cellular networks can handle the data (probably around 83 years in AT&T case).

 

[lixuelai]

I really like the Zune but if it is not natively supported on OS X I am passing on it.

 

[mrmayor92]

I really like the Zune but if it is not natively supported on OS X I am passing on it.

this

 

[Fall3n13]

You want to test my math skills? Let's go genius.

Zune Pass is $15 per month.
You can only FULLY OWN 10 songs.
So that's $1.5 per song.

10,000 songs * $1.5 per song = $15,000


iTunes is $.69, $.99, or $1.29 per song (Heck let's use $1.29)

10,000 songs * $1.29 per song = $12,900.

Zune Pass for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $15,000
iTunes music store for 10,000 songs you can OWN is $12,900.

By paying $15 a month, you get access to listen to over 10,000 songs and while paying those $15 you get two own 10 of them.

While on the other hand to listen to 10,000 songs through itunes you need to shell out $10,000.

If you actually wanted to purchase a song through the zune market place it would cost you 99 cents as well so when you really look at it, you are paying $10 for the music you are going to keep and $5 to listen to thousands of songs at your disposal.

Most people feel nostalgic and want to listen to a song or album but really they usually don't care to purchase it. So now that i'm using iTunes and feeling nostalgic, i have to pay just to listen to that song for the 1-2 times i wanted to and then let it sit there while i listen to my usual library of music.

To the average consumer this makes total sense. If you feel differently that's your opinion.

 

[0098386]

I'm a little confused as to how this Zune pass works. Are there only 10k songs on this service, or can you download up to 10k songs per month and then select the 10 you want to keep? What if you're out and about using a Zune away from a computer. How do you access these 10k songs then, 3G chip?

I think iTunes (even though I don't use it) is a better option. It's a lot simpler, heh.

 

[fswmacguy]

The Zune has not, and will not, catch on.

Let's face it, the iPod touch is like a whole computer in your pocket. If I'm somewhere with fast wifi, I'd much rather stow an iPod touch in my pocket than a notebook in my backpack- and that's the fact. Safari and Mail on the iPhone/iPod touch is outstanding, add in the Copy & Paste... what can't we do on a computer in our pocket?

Unless Microsoft can top the features in the iPod touch, it will be in the same position the current Zune is today. Microsoft has never made a product before Apple has.

 

[MacMonster1985]

The Zune has not, and will not, catch on.

Let's face it, the iPod touch is like a whole computer in your pocket. If I'm somewhere with fast wifi, I'd much rather stow an iPod touch in my pocket than a notebook in my backpack- and that's the fact. Safari and Mail on the iPhone/iPod touch is outstanding, add in the Copy & Paste... what can't we do on a computer in our pocket?

Unless Microsoft can top the features in the iPod touch, it will be in the same position the current Zune is today. Microsoft has never made a product before Apple has.

Can the iPod Touch do this?
http://vimeo.com/6096791

Xbox already has netflix, last.fm etc. Can you imagine if they bring netflix to Zune? They could also make the Zune a sort of Xbox Lite which you can play on the go, or go home, put it in the dock and play games. Apart from faster hardware, the iPod has pretty much hit the limit to what Apple can do within its infrastructure.

MS has many more options to expand upon. They could do what Apple couldn't with the Apple TV.

 

[Lancing]

I'm a little confused as to how this Zune pass works. Are there only 10k songs on this service, or can you download up to 10k songs per month and then select the 10 you want to keep? What if you're out and about using a Zune away from a computer. How do you access these 10k songs then, 3G chip?

I think iTunes (even though I don't use it) is a better option. It's a lot simpler, heh.

According to the Zune website theres supposidly millions, while that maybe an exaggeration there is a lot of music on it. More then you could probably realistically ever listen to.

You can download as many as you want per month which get stored on your device in DRM format. You do need a wifi connection to download. If you have no access to wifi you've got whatever you currently have stored on your device.

And yes you can pick 10 you want anytime during the month and keep them, your picks get stored as unprotected MP3's.

 

[MacMonster1985]

I believe there are tools out there to strip the protected mp3s off their DRM if you want as well.

 

[Lancing]

I believe there are tools out there to strip the protected mp3s off their DRM if you want as well.

I've read that too although I wasn't going to bring that up.

 

[4DThinker]

The Zune has not, and will not, catch on.

Sounds like perfect illogic from an Apple fan boy. I love it when I hear absolutes like this, because there is now a 50% chance that the quoted will be absolutely wrong. I say the Zune HD is likely to at least double Microsoft's share of the WiFi-enabled MP3 player market. Of course it depends on how much they improve it with firmware updates after it's released. From the videos and interviews I've seen so far I can tell it uses WiFi far better than the Touch to enhance the media play experience. It's also approx 25% less expensive than the Touch. For anyone who wants a GREAT media player but already owns a smartphone the Zune HD is shaping up to be far better than anything else I've seen. I've seen a few dozen up close and personal, by the way.

 

[CPD_1]

Sounds like perfect illogic from an Apple fan boy. I love it when I hear absolutes like this, because there is now a 50% chance that the quoted will be absolutely wrong. I say the Zune HD is likely to at least double Microsoft's share of the WiFi-enabled MP3 player market. Of course it depends on how much they improve it with firmware updates after it's released. From the videos and interviews I've seen so far I can tell it uses WiFi far better than the Touch to enhance the media play experience. It's also approx 25% less expensive than the Touch. For anyone who wants a GREAT media player but already owns a smartphone the Zune HD is shaping up to be far better than anything else I've seen. I've seen a few dozen up close and personal, by the way.

I really don't think that 25% difference is going to last come the iPod event. Apple altered their pricing structure on comparable models last time Microsoft tried to undercut them. I can see it happening again.

 

[sarcosis]

I agree. I think that Apple will refresh their new line by adding a camera and perhaps a few other things. In the past, the iPod Touch has not outpaced the current gen iPhone by that much. Personally, the iPod Touch would have to add alot to make up for the lack of the Zune Pass.

Just remember this, you are paying for a subscription to listen to a ton of music. You just get to keep 10 of the 10,000 that you might have down loaded for the month. You still get to listen to it. So for $15, I have the potential to listen to 10,000 songs. Mind you I don't get to keep them, but it's a good way to get into new things and I listen to a ton of music. It's a good way to keep it fresh.

To get a similar experience, I would have to shell out quite a bit more in iTunes. It's good if you listen to a ton of music like I do and don't like to listen to one thing over and over and over, except for the songs I really like. But I think they will both offer things that buys would like and it will depend on what people like best.

 

[Kyprioth657]

I read in either this thread or another about people quibbling over the math of the Zune pass. I think the most interesting aspect of the Zune pass is that you need no longer worry about the files becoming corrupt. The music you rent can always be redownloaded. To the best of my knowledge, Apple does not allow me to redownload music files I have purchased from them, in some attempt to save bandwidth. Sure, I could backup the files, but that's a large pain in the ass.

Just this afternoon my copy of Fix You by Cold Play that I purchased was corrupt. I had to illegally download it, which I feel partly felt justified in, and partly felt guilty over. Zune Pass would eliminate that.

Also, the Zune seems snappier than my iPod touch does. I love a snappy UI.

My one worry about the Zune is that it will feature a sub par internet browser. The browser has been convieniently left out of the demonstrations we have seen. Let's face it, Internet Explorer sucks, and everyone knows it. Even my 50 year old parents wised up and started using Google Chrome. These Windows Mobile devices have been known to have terrible internet browsers. I hope this is not the case, as this looks like a product I might buy. Then again, the Windows mobile UI is also know for being slow, and the Zune is even more responsive than my iPod Touch.

It's a close race for me. If the iPod Touch just introduces a camera, I won't be buying it. I already have a crappy camera on my cell phone, and do not need another crappy camera. It will probably come down to whoever has the most responsive touch screen and quickest internet browser. Both of these have been drawbacks to previous windows mobile phones, so the Zune team has a lot of work on their hands. Unless this "Tegra" processor is all that the folks at Engadget make it out to be, it'll probably be slower.

 

[MacMonster1985]

I read in either this thread or another about people quibbling over the math of the Zune pass. I think the most interesting aspect of the Zune pass is that you need no longer worry about the files becoming corrupt. The music you rent can always be redownloaded. To the best of my knowledge, Apple does not allow me to redownload music files I have purchased from them, in some attempt to save bandwidth. Sure, I could backup the files, but that's a large pain in the ass.

Just this afternoon my copy of Fix You by Cold Play that I purchased was corrupt. I had to illegally download it, which I feel partly felt justified in, and partly felt guilty over. Zune Pass would eliminate that.

Also, the Zune seems snappier than my iPod touch does. I love a snappy UI.

My one worry about the Zune is that it will feature a sub par internet browser. The browser has been convieniently left out of the demonstrations we have seen. Let's face it, Internet Explorer sucks, and everyone knows it. Even my 50 year old parents wised up and started using Google Chrome. These Windows Mobile devices have been known to have terrible internet browsers. I hope this is not the case, as this looks like a product I might buy. Then again, the Windows mobile UI is also know for being slow, and the Zune is even more responsive than my iPod Touch.

It's a close race for me. If the iPod Touch just introduces a camera, I won't be buying it. I already have a crappy camera on my cell phone, and do not need another crappy camera. It will probably come down to whoever has the most responsive touch screen and quickest internet browser. Both of these have been drawbacks to previous windows mobile phones, so the Zune team has a lot of work on their hands. Unless this "Tegra" processor is all that the folks at Engadget make it out to be, it'll probably be slower.

All I care is about the docked media centre function. It's magic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY6-rFCZPUM

If it can output 720p then it's certainly not slow.

"We're told that no fewer than eight independent processors make up Tegra's collective whole, with each one engineered for a specific class of tasks; among them are an HD video processor, an audio processor, a graphics processor and two ARM cores. Each of the chips can work together or independently to minimize power consumption, and the built-in nPower technology is said to optimize system power use and enable extended HD video / MP3 playback time."

Engadget reporting on nVidias press release about the Tegra in Zune HD.

 

[Tigger11]

It's also approx 25% less expensive than the Touch.

I'm not sure where that is coming from. The Zune HD on Amazon is 16 GB for $219.99 and 32 GB for $289.99 when it goes on sale on September 15th, and those arent the list prices. The 3rd Gen Ipod Touch comes out a week earlier on September 8th and is expected to go for 16 gb for $229, 32 gb for $299 and 64 gb for $399 and those are list prices. In fact given how Amazon has the 2nd generation priced at this point, it would not be surprising for Amazon to be selling 3rd gen Ipod Touch for cheaper then the Zune (ie 214.99, 274.95 & 369.00). And it could be worse, if the 16 gb Itouch really comes out at $199 list as several have hinted at, thats going to be $30 or $40 difference in list price between the Zune and the "funnest Ipod of them all" and the Ipod has alot of intertia, the app store, a much better browser and a video camera.
-Tig

 

[4DThinker]

I'm not sure where that is coming from. The Zune HD on Amazon is 16 GB for $219.99 and 32 GB for $289.99 when it goes on sale on September 15th, and those arent the list prices.

Yes, those prices are the current MSRP. Every site that has them for pre-order has exactly the same price (except maybe WalMart at .99 cheaper). It means there is room in those prices for some sale-price reductions if desired. Newegg.com has already "sold out" of it's initial pre-order allocation of the 16gb Zune HD. You can still pre-order the 32gb version to arrive at your house on the 15th.

 

[WordLife565]

it's already been said, but the best thing about this is that the 3rd gen iPod touch 16 gig will most likely be the current price of the 8 gig. and if that is the case, It will make it a whole lot easier for me to buy an iPod touch over a classic.

 

[Tigger11]

Yes, those prices are the current MSRP. Every site that has them for pre-order has exactly the same price (except maybe WalMart at .99 cheaper). It means there is room in those prices for some sale-price reductions if desired. Newegg.com has already "sold out" of it's initial pre-order allocation of the 16gb Zune HD. You can still pre-order the 32gb version to arrive at your house on the 15th.

Ok saying thats correct, it still appears that Amazon will likely be selling new Ipod touches for the same or less, with the same amount of memory. I'm not sure why you want pay the same for a system with a smaller screen, no apps, no camera and a worse web browser. I realize you collect portable players like others collect comic books, but why do you think the average person would choose Zune HD over Ipod Touch given the price/memory parity that seems to be the case?
-Tig

 

[4DThinker]

Ok saying thats correct, it still appears that Amazon will likely be selling new Ipod touches for the same or less, with the same amount of memory. I'm not sure why you want to pay the same for a system with a smaller screen, no apps, no camera and a worse web browser. ... Why do you think the average person would choose Zune HD over Ipod Touch given the price/memory parity that seems to be the case?
-Tig

You're assuming all the Touch rumors are facts, and until it's out with prices there is no point. You've never used the ZuneHD's web browser, but have concluded it is worse than the Touch's. I've already got two Touches and do collect players like comic books, but here's why some people are (already) buying the Zune HD:

- The HD has an OLED screen, and images on it are both stunning and capable of being viewed up to 89 degrees from straight on. Much easier for several people to appreciate the view if you're showing photos or whatever.
- The HD is a new thing. Even if they add a camera, the new Touch will still look pretty much like today's Touch. Rather be a sheep or the Shephard?
- The HD's music play app is amazing. Most won't want to let their screens shut off while listening.
- Compared to known prices, the ZuneHD is a great value. Yes, it may be less of a bargain once the new Touch prices are announced. Why do you think MS is letting people pre-order them now?
- It's not an Apple product. I know several people who have wanted something as good as a Touch, but won't buy Apple. The Zune HD, from early reviews, seem to be a decent answer to that dilemma.
- Because they can. The Zune HD is available (pre-ordered) right now.

 

[Bjohnson33]

Apple still have plenty of time to adjust now. It is good for all of use as consumers, but in terms of strategy, Microsoft will probably be furious these prices have leaked.

I agree - it looks like a really good product, but giving Apple a month to more aggressively price their new hardware doesn't seem like a great idea. Of course, if they waited until after Apple's September announcement, they would probably just be lost in the hype of the newest iPods. A bit of a lose-lose situation.

 

[Tigger11]

You're assuming all the Touch rumors are facts, and until it's out with prices there is no point. You've never used the ZuneHD's web browser, but have concluded it is worse than the Touch's. I've already got two Touches and do collect players like comic books, but here's why some people are (already) buying the Zune HD:

Given the preponderousness of evidence and historical fact, I dont think the camera assumption or the cost assumption is very far off, do you really think it is? I've used dozens of versions of browsers from Microsoft over the years, I'm using a microsoft browser here at work, neither I nor anyone else (besides you) believes that despite their inability to make a browser for any previous portable device as good as the competition or even as good as IE that Microsoft's new browser is not only going to be better then IE, but better then Safari on the Ipod Touch. If they had a browser better then Safari, we would have seen it by now.

- The HD has an OLED screen, and images on it are both stunning and capable of being viewed up to 89 degrees from straight on. Much easier for several people to appreciate the view if you're showing photos or whatever.

Again the screen is smaller then the touch and we abandoned OLED in cockpits because you can't see them in sunlight and they are worse under NVIS, in addition there is of course the blue decay issue of OLED, though hopefully Microsoft's supplier has addressed the issue.

- The HD is a new thing. Even if they add a camera, the new Touch will still look pretty much like today's Touch. Rather be a sheep or the Shephard?

Again I realize that you have new toy syndrome (sheep and shephard is hilarious turnaround given the traditional use of it as applied to Microsoft), but just because the Volt is a new car, doesnt mean I'm giving up my Viper for one.

- The HD's music play app is amazing. Most won't want to let their screens shut off while listening.

Note to my employees, dont let me catch you watching the screen on your MP3 player instead of working or you get to work without the MP3 player or you can go serve fries somewhere. Sorry but cool screens while playing music has got to be really really low on my why to buy a player list.

- Compared to known prices, the ZuneHD is a great value. Yes, it may be less of a bargain once the new Touch prices are announced. Why do you think MS is letting people pre-order them now?

Because they are hoping to sell some before the apple announcement? The Ipod Touch is going to be available first in all likelyhood. The last two years, the new Ipods were available on the day of the announcement. You'll be able to go and get one on the 9th or 10th, why preorder its competition to get it on the 15th, order it on the 9th if you like it better, you'll still get it the following week, its not really selling that well.

- It's not an Apple product. I know several people who have wanted something as good as a Touch, but won't buy Apple. The Zune HD, from early reviews, seem to be a decent answer to that dilemma.

Zune is a microsoft product, there is alot more people who are upset for crazy (and not so crazy) reasons at microsoft then are mad enough at Apple to not get an MP3 player from them as there rulership of the market shows.

- Because they can. The Zune HD is available (pre-ordered) right now.

Again this seems to be new toy syndrome, its new you want it first before your friend get one, whether its good, does things better etc. Why order before September 9th when you can see what Apple has. I know why you are doing it, because you are going to end up buying both. But most people are looking at getting a (single) new player, not waiting to see what the industry leader announces (which occurs before your preorder will arrive) seems silly. I'm guessing there will be alot of cancellations of the Zune HD on Sept 9th when the comparison comes out, and as people go down to Best Buy, Walmart and the Apple Store to pick up the new Ipods and have them before the HD ships. For that matter why not go down to Best Buy on the 15th and play with both of them side by side and decide then which one really does what you want from your media player.
-Tig

 

[Bubba Satori]

Zoon!

What on earth where they thinking when they named that turd!

Prices aren't too shabby, though I can't say I'd ever consider touching one without lab gloves and anosmia.

Anosmia ?

 

[gloss]

Anosmia ?

Loss of sense of smell.