Zune HD

[NoSmokingBandit]

If it was that easy to penetrate the gaming market, then someone would have done so before MS. Do you remember Apple's attempt at a gaming console?

If MS tried to buy exclusivity, then Sony should have offered more for the developers not to leave. It's all part of the competition. That's what capitalism is all about.

Sony is all about making games better. If they just buy up all the games then where is the motivation to make them better? We all know MS doesnt care about making the industry better, you can look at their hardware and tell that they want to give the consumers the very least possible and get away with it. Dvd drive, relatively slow cpu, slower ram... Some of the eariler models didnt even have hdmi. Not to mention that none of them have any heatsink to speak of.
MS just wants to throw money at their problems instead of actually making a decent console.

I think it says something about the user experience and gameplay, when even after multiple hardware failures, people still go back to the Xbox and not PS3.

If someone has 15 games they have spent $900 in games (at $60 each) so they are going ot go back to their rrodbox even if they hate it just so they dont have to buy all their games again. I know plenty of 360 owners that are tired of MS's ******** but dont want to lose or rebuy their catalog of games.

 

[neemer5]

If it delivers as well as it looks, APple should be worried. The issue I've always had with the zune is that they never seemed to want to make it competitive. Instead of improving on the iPod's qualities, they try to match them. And instead of trying to address the iPod's weaknesses, they just ignore them too. Maybe they'll be a few bucks cheaper, but that's about it.

 

[cwkoller5]

Integration points

As the MS Zune catches up with the iPod on the media player front, you have to wonder where they are with the phone/app integration. If there was an XBox/Netflix connection, that would be a definite point for MS. But as it stands it seems like MS has four different OSes going (Windows, Windows Mobile, XBox and Zune) which doesn't make for particularly easy integration.

We'll see. The good think about MS' me-too attacks is that it keeps Apple honest...

 

[TennisandMusic]

Sorry, but I think the PS3 is doing just as well as the Xbox 360 is. And so is the PSP. It's just that it's 2 products, one for heavy duty, one for lighter portable gaming. (I beg your pardon, but the DS sucks. Once the novelty of the idea passes, serious gamers go back to the PSP, normal people will go to other consoles such as the wii. But this is of course my opinion.)

Anyways Xbox is one classic example of the "embrace, extend, extinguish" policy that was applied. It wasn't until earlier this year Microsoft was operating at a loss for these Xbox'es. They're relying on their other products to *heavily* subsidize the development and production costs.

Wow, after reading over all of these posts you really are in your own little world. You may think the DS sucks, which is fine to think of course, but many MANY people prefer it over the PSP. Just look at the sales numbers! The PSP isn't even approaching the DS' numbers.

Also the PS3 is by far in dead last. It is not doing as well as the 360 is. And both are completely dwarfed by the Wii, for better or worse.

And then of course all your opinions about Apple and MS...yeesh...

Seems to me like your "opinions" are based on what you wished reality was, and not what it truly is.

 

[SandynJosh]

No offense, but I can almost guarantee the Zune HD will not be HDD based. It'll be flash based like the Touch.

You're talking about MicroSoft here... they haven't given up on the floppy drive yet. The advertisement failed to show the separate full-sized keyboard that comes with the Zune HD, nor the slot for the floppy on the side of the zune.

I imagine the designers at MicroSoft believe people want this Zune so they can watch full-length HD movies on a teensy screen. Personally, to me, that would feel like trying to spy on your cousin through a keyhole.

 

[scottness]

Doubt the HD title actually refers to 720p. There are a lot of devices with the HD tagline (HTC Touch HD, Samsung Omnia HD, etc) that don't actually have HD screens (although the Omnia HD I think has 720p video support). It likely is just a marketing thing, since I bet it has a fairly high resolution screen, just not 720p.

maybe it has video out at 720p -- hope that would be true for iPhone, too.

 

[SandynJosh]

As the MS Zune catches up with the iPod on the media player front, you have to wonder where they are with the phone/app integration. If there was an XBox/Netflix connection, that would be a definite point for MS. But as it stands it seems like MS has four different OSes going (Windows, Windows Mobile, XBox and Zune) which doesn't make for particularly easy integration.

We'll see. The good think about MS' me-too attacks is that it keeps Apple honest...

You forgot to mention that windows alone comes in more flavors than Baskins Robins ice cream.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php
look at this, BMW. Comparing the console by launch date shows that the ps3 is actually selling better than the 360. Comparing current numbers is pointless as the 360 had a year advance. At week ~120 or so the ps3 has sold about 21.5k units but the 360 has sold about 17.9k. Even with a year of no competition the 360 cant stand up to the ps3. Even with a year of almost no games the ps3 sold more than the 360's first year of no competition and all the games.


Anyway, i asked this a hwile ao, has anyone found high-res copys of the pics from the engadget page? They would make a cool wallpaper.

 

[KnightWRX]

If it was that easy to penetrate the gaming market, then someone would have done so before MS. Do you remember Apple's attempt at a gaming console?

If MS tried to buy exclusivity, then Sony should have offered more for the developers not to leave. It's all part of the competition. That's what capitalism is all about.

Sony isn't offering to buy exclusive or time-based exclusive. It is apparent and many developers have already commented on it.

And no, this isn't what capitalism is about. Anti-trust laws prevent this is from happening. They are presently losing money in their game section, so specifically using money that they don't have to force market penetration would be illegal.

In other words, they are presently funding the Xbox with Windows and Office profits. Using a monopoly in one market in other to try to acquise a monopoly in another.

 

[SandynJosh]

If it delivers as well as it looks, APple should be worried. The issue I've always had with the zune is that they never seemed to want to make it competitive. Instead of improving on the iPod's qualities, they try to match them. And instead of trying to address the iPod's weaknesses, they just ignore them too. Maybe they'll be a few bucks cheaper, but that's about it.

They can't just be a few bucks cheaper after running all those phony ads showing how over-priced apple is. They need to really undercut the Apple price or reveal that there must be a "Microsoft tax" as well.

I can see the ad now. Two 12 year old girls are sent out to find a mp3 player. It must have a touch screen, slideout keyboard, 4 gig of memory, and come in brown for only. That the only apps for it are "coming soon" and the battery life is good for 10 song, are of no consequences.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think it says something about the user experience and gameplay, when even after multiple hardware failures, people still go back to the Xbox and not PS3.

The PS3 is only 7 million or so units behind the Xbox360, and that is only because of the american market. It's also a full year behind, meaning it'll probably catch up.

Also, the PS2 is still a strong contenders with new games still shipping for it, meaning Sony is competing with itself by allowing and licensing these new games.

Microsoft is going for price alone, basically giving away the Xbox360s without any features at all (Arcade). Sony is not compromising on the console itself or its price. All PS3s sold offer blu-ray, HDMI, optical outputs, big hard drives making the consoles more expensive.

Why is it anything remotely MS related always devolves into how MS sucks compared to anything?

Because a Microsoft apologist steps in and says something completely off-topic and we just want to discuss. People were perfectly happy discussing the Zune before Jacques showed up.

 

[SandynJosh]

Why is it anything remotely MS related always devolves into how MS sucks compared to anything?

Not to be a b***h and rain on your anti-MS parade, but I'm presonally psyched to see where this goes. I'm looking for a reason to ditch my iPod Touch (too little space). And hell, since all music is DRM free, I can still buy from apple and play on a Zune!

Play WHAT on the Zune? Music *maybe*, but not even one of the 15,000 games and apps, nor any of the app store podcasts and movies.

I'm thinking that the Zune HD will have a front facing camera so the users can use it to squeeze their zits wile listening to mp3 quality bubblegum music.

 

[BMWFan]

They are presently losing money in their game section, so specifically using money that they don't have to force market penetration would be illegal.

Don't be silly. Of course they have money, and how they use that money is all up to them.

As for Sony, it all reeks of arrogance. They were on the top of the food chain and though no one could touch them. They were so arrogant they didn't put in measures to protect their business. They should have been more aggressive with the exclusives, and losing them is purely their fault.


Let me give you a hypothetical situation. Intel has the better performing chips at the moment, albeit at a higher price point. Do the anti-trust laws prevent Intel from lowering prices and losing money (in the short run) and as result bankrupt AMD?

My opinion would be that Intel can do what they want since it's AMDs fault for not producing competitive chips in the first place.

 

[mac*jedi*g]

Microsoft would be better off investing in portable vomitoriums. Is a Zune HD really necessary? I don't think the original Zune was desired then or even now. I see them NOWHERE except on the store shelves. I wonder what were their ROI invest was last year to merit a sequel?

 

[BMWFan]

Microsoft would be better off investing in portable vomitoriums. Is a Zune HD really necessary? I don't think the original Zune was desired then or even now. I see them NOWHERE except on the store shelves. I wonder what were their ROI invest was last year to merit a sequel?

I am amused by all these posts saying MS shouldn't bother with the Zune since it's having a hard time gaining market share.

By that logic, Apple should dump almost everything they make.

 

[MisterK]

Pretty good

This saying is incredible overused here on MacRumors, but competition IS good for everyone. The only thing that worries me is 100 feature bullet points on the Zune box and nothing done well... Apple won't have much of a choice but to add a bunch of features that don't really add to my listening experience; I can only hope they do their best to implement them well. For just listening to music, I don't think anything beats the iPod Classic. I can control it from my pocket.

 

[BMWFan]

This saying is incredible overused here on MacRumors, but competition IS good for everyone. The only thing that worries me is 100 feature bullet points on the Zune box and nothing done well... Apple won't have much of a choice but to add a bunch of features that don't really add to my listening experience; I can only hope they do their best to implement them well. For just listening to music, I don't think anything beats the iPod Classic. I can control it from my pocket.

As far as listening experience goes, many reviews point out that the Zune has better audio quality than the iPod Classic.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

This saying is incredible overused here on MacRumors, but competition IS good for everyone. The only thing that worries me is 100 feature bullet points on the Zune box and nothing done well... Apple won't have much of a choice but to add a bunch of features that don't really add to my listening experience; I can only hope they do their best to implement them well. For just listening to music, I don't think anything beats the iPod Classic. I can control it from my pocket.

somehow features that you won't use interfere with listening to music?

 

[*LTD*]

I am amused by all these posts saying MS shouldn't bother with the Zune since it's having a hard time gaining market share.

By that logic, Apple should dump almost everything they make.

Apple's products are aimed at the PREMIUM end of the market. That's where Apple wants to stay. That's where the nice margins are. It's also where there will be smaller market share, no matter how you slice it. It's all about maintaining a standard of exclusivity, a certain image.

Dell customers need not apply.

Now imagine your leaner, meaner competitor grabbing huge chunks of the premium end of the market. It relegates your own product to the status of low-budget, bargain-basement garbage-ware.

Apple's products are simply more desirable and set the standard when it comes to the marriage of form and function.

The Zune is simply a lousy, uninspiring, derivative product in comparison. It might be better than a SanDisk or a Creative product. But it's nowhere near the level of Apple's forward thinking. MS always REACTS to Apple. They do not take risks. This makes them lame, but with plenty of money. Not good, since they have every incentive to spend money on the wrong things.

It's as if MS either has no R&D budget whatsoever, or they're spending it on garbage - like trying to outdo Google in search. It's laughable.

 

[fiercetiger224]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ation_point_for_ipod_itunes_use_by_teens.html

I've also seen that survey referenced on these boards.

Yes, and remember it's a survey. Apparently all the teens that they asked wanted an iPod. It doesn't mean that it's wanted by 100% teens.

As for your comment about UI, there just seems to be no logic in that. Whether or not it's 'flashy', is down to opinion. Zune software is far from 'flashy'. It's essentially just big text, that you can scroll through...
Pretty damn easy to use to me.

I also resent your 'it's not clean' comment.
That's just plain ridiculous. Windows 7 is an outstanding OS. Easy to use, functional, great features - and it's aesthetically pleasing. By clean, I'm presuming, that you mean 'minimalist'. If it were minimalist, then it wouldn't be Windows 7, it wouldn't be the same OS. It's function differently, and a hell of a lot harder to use.

UI design is not just about looks, but how it functions. MS focuses too much on looks, and not how it's laid out, and how it functions. OS X is more user-centric. To do something in Windows sometimes takes more steps to accomplish than OS X. I can attest to this, since I work on both Windows and Macs everyday, for web development. I also do programming, graphic design, photography, video editing, etc, so I've got a vast line of workflows that I've used in both OSes.

Shortcut keys, such as special characters, can be done on OS X in one key stroke, as opposed to using Alt + numbers to do the same on Windows.

The only problem Zune has, is time. It needs time to compete against an already-huge device. It's OS is fine.

Time? Yes there's time for it to compete, but look at the iPhone. It was already in a saturated market of "smart phones". And now look where it's at. Same argument could be said for Zune.

 

[BMWFan]

Apple's products are aimed at the PREMIUM end of the market. That's where Apple wants to stay. That's where the nice margins are. It's also where there will be smaller market share, no matter how you slice it. It's all about maintaining a standard of exclusivity, a certain image.

The Zune is aimed at the iPod Classic. Most reviews will tell you it does a very good job as a competitor for the iPod Classic. People who's used both iPod Classic and Zune will say the same.

 

[BMWFan]

UI design is not just about looks, but how it functions. MS focuses too much on looks, and not how it's laid out, and how it functions. OS X is more user-centric. To do something in Windows sometimes takes more steps to accomplish than OS X.

This is true the other way around as well. Imagine the bottom right corner of the window is out of the screen and you want to resize the window. You will have to drag it out, then go to the bottom right and then resize. In other OS's you can just resize any point in the window.

Or the fact that in multiple monitors, you will have to drag your mouse to the primary monitor everytime you want to access the dock or menubar.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

Any more news on this zune or are we still going from the pics posted at the beginning?

Let me give you a hypothetical situation. Intel has the better performing chips at the moment, albeit at a higher price point. Do the anti-trust laws prevent Intel from lowering prices and losing money (in the short run) and as result bankrupt AMD?

Yes, there are laws preventing this. I forget what the official term is though...

My opinion would be....

The government doesnt give a crap about your opinion.

 

[KnightWRX]

Don't be silly. Of course they have money, and how they use that money is all up to them.

You're confusing them with a company that doesn't have a monopoly. Rules change when you're a monopoly. Specifically : You can't leverage that monopoly to acquire monopolies in other markets.

Anti-trust. Read up on it.

 

[fiercetiger224]

This is true the other way around as well. Imagine the bottom right corner of the window is out of the screen and you want to resize the window. You will have to drag it out, then go to the bottom right and then resize. In other OS's you can just resize any point in the window.

Or the fact that in multiple monitors, you will have to drag your mouse to the primary monitor everytime you want to access the dock or menubar.

True dat. But for some reason, I feel that even though those are pluses, I like how they designed the corner resizing better, because then I don't accidently resize a window, etc. The one thing that does suck for Macs is the maximizing. If a program isn't programmed to maximize for the entire screen, it does a half-ass maximize, or just some weird resizing.