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10.5.3 Is Out!
- Thread starter mediapirate
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Excuse me, what? Are you just making this up because you're in a Windows free zone where you can say anything bad about Windows and people will just clap their hands? I've been using Windows since 1992 and I have never seen an update break anything. Yeah, entirely new versions like Win2K, XP, Vista etc would initially have issues with older software, but subsequent maintenance updates would only FIX stuff.
The notion of minor updates breaking stuff wasn't on my radar until I got my first Mac in 2004, noticed weird stuff going on, started googling and eventually found my way here, where I discovered that there's a whole subculture around things that break with every update. There was virtual pandemonium here after 10.5.0 was released and people were having all sorts of crazy problems, like the infamous 'blue screen of birth'... try googling for "back to Tiger" and then "back to XP" and you'll find by comparison that the number of hits for the former is disproportionate to the Mac's market share by about 2 times... And while you're at it try "Vista broke..." and "Leopard broke..."
And even now at 10.5.3 there are all sorts of threads like "list your broken apps here", kernel panic this, endless boot loop that...
Windows certainly deserves most of the bashing it gets, but you're totally throwing stones in a glass house on this one.
You got the 420 MB version of the update, right?
It seems that MacBook and Mac Mini owners got the 198 MB 'edition' and everyone else got 420 MB. I.e. everyone with a proper video card got a bigger update. So it looks like new drivers were included, possibly both NVidia and ATI...
Hmmm. 420 MB on my December 2007 24" alu iMac with Radeon HD2600.
198 MB on my April 2007 Mac Mini 1.82 GHz with GMA 950.
Guess we're back to square one on what determines whether you get 198 or 420 megs...
Software updates decides which one to dl based on whether it thinks it can patch your files or needs to replace them. Its not hardware related but software.
I agree with you. My problems with updates didn't start until I purchased my first Mac last year. I have had more problems with updates then I have ever had with any windows machine. I am waiting on this update for people to give the go ahead.
I am still waiting for a Boot Camp update that will actually work. I have tried all the ideas and still can't get boot camp to update.
I will be waiting for the next . (dot) update before trying any updates on the apple.
Two Time Machine restorations and now on my second installation off of the OS X DVDs and it still doesn't work.
Thanks for these 8 hours without my Mac.
XP Service Pack 2 was less painful then this.
Thanks for these 8 hours without my Mac.
XP Service Pack 2 was less painful then this.
While I agree with you, OS X updates are plagued with issues, to start a rant criticizing someone else's comment with equally baseless facts - pot. kettle. black.
XP SP3 recalled for POS software file corruption, Vista SP1 recalled for multiple issues, Windows Home Server update recalled for rampant file system corruption. The Windows 2003 SP1 Kernel Integrity Protection debacle. After having to suffer Windows in the enterprise for over a decade I can recount many times not just a Service Pack but a single patch update could and did cause havoc. Hotfixes breaking SSL, digest authentication... the list goes on.
Apple are no better - nor are Red Hat... see the recent 5.1 kernel update that completely shagged IPSEC support.
/rant
Look, if you mean single-click without any modifier, you're correct. But, should you want, you can set a button on your mouse to act as command-click, and there's one way to do it, although you have to be in column view. True, it doesn't go directly in any other view, but if you are in column view and command-click a folder in the right-hand side of the dock, it will open that folder and show its contents. I'm not "spreading lies", it's happening. There: I just did it again. Were I so inclined I could do it all day long. Not without shift-clicking, and not in any view other than column view, though. That is the way to single click on a folder in the dock and have it just open as a folder in Leopard. And I'm running 10.5.2. Here's my modifier to the above: if it's a case of complete miscommunication and you're making a point that I'm not getting, I'll be first in line to humbly apologize to you. 'Cause frankly, it's not a big deal to me... but the "lying" and "IMPOSSIBLE" parts made me grumble.
Can't argue with that -- I'm sure the picture is different for someone in an enterprise environment with large machine parks. But as a home/home office user who's never had to deal with more than two PCs at a time I can say that Vista SP1 almost had the champagne corks flying in my house due to the multiple annoyances it fixed. The first few months with Vista were hell, owed largely to the introduction of a spanking new hardware driver model, but as hardware manufacturers have caught up one after one, the payoff is evident... it's been a very steady ride for the last 6 months. Incidentally the same 6 months that in the Mac universe have been the worst since the OS9>10 transition back in 2001-2002.
The only Windows update that gave me trouble was XP SP2, not that it broke anything but it introduced the horrible concept of automatic reboots after installing updates. I.e. if you agreed to install an update which required a reboot, XP would constantly bug you with reboot requests and if you happened to go out to lunch and weren't there to postpone the request it would close all your programs and reboot on its own. The idiot who thought that up caused billions worth of lost work, and shouldn't merely be fired but fired upon.
So yeah, I'm not saying Windows is any better, it's worse in many ways, but the vibe around these parts is that Mac is 99% heaven and Windows is 110% hell which I find simply ludicrous. I'm totally OK with a heavy bias, on par with FOX News, but this is more on the level of Orwellian Ministry of Truth...
Not that i can tell. I checked the kext and it had the same modification date as it did with 10.5.2.
i was hoping to see a surprise there too
I'm running the macos forge 111 build on one of my machines with a 4 disk raidz attached.
10.5.2... I hated the 10.5.0 display style with a passion so I jumped on that option about 2 seconds after the first boot into 10.5.2.
nope that came in 10.5.2 with the list stacks.
sorry to hear you have problems Eidorian
i hope you fix your Mac Thank you! You've saved my Pro Tools installation! And probably my Avid installation, too...
ROFL
All updates have been fine, Bootcamp works as expected, although the net result is running some form of Windoze, could that be the problem?
Not one update from Apple has caused me a single problem and I run a large network of Macs ranging from G4s through G5s, Macbooks and 8 core Intel Xeons.
Any issue you mention could easily be fixed if genuine, but of course they are not.
And people wonder why Mac folk here get less than polite to Windoze fanboys! Sheesh!
Sorry for answering a Troll's post , I should know better!
10.5.3 running without issue on all Macs here.
Hmm not really from my experience, lets consider the facts since I use both Windows and Mac, and had been a Windows user since 3.1.. Since we are talking about Windows here that started this argument, I will mostly stick with that.
On the mac end, I never had an issue. I am new to mac for about 2 months now (owning one that is, I used other macs before - but mostly borrowed them), and every update my macbook asks me to download never broke anything, and I never experienced the problems that mac people seem to complain about on macrumors (and I use Windows for 8-12 hrs a day for work. at the same time I am also doing stuff on my mac, since I converted most of my documents to that laptop - then when I am done work, I am working on my mac for church and home stuff [videos, internet, bouncing between parallels and mac os x for different apps, doing my homework for seminary, touching up photos for people, etc]. So either I have been extremely lucky or reality has not hit in yet. My mac is a dream as compared to windows, and i have only been using it for 2 months regularly now.
Now back to the windows point of view - which was the point of my post. and I must say one thing, it seems that the problems that plague windows updates are only getting worse. I do not recall all these problems with windows updates a few years ago. I am wondering since MS really did not want to support XP anymore, they are getting slack with what they put out. XP used to be rock solid for a number of years and office was great up until about the middle of offfice 2003.
Here is just a short my list of complaints that started occuring with Xp and Office and you will see why I have issues with Windows and the fact I have yet to have an issue with mac is why I posted what I did:
1. Security update that introduced IE7 - Websites are no longer being displayed properly. you program a website - it looks fine in Safari, fine in firefox, however IE7 scued the display, especially in tables. Another bad issue with IE7, is that for a long time password windows were treated a pop-ups which locked alot of people out of websites.
2. Update loaded last night and cause my system to reboot. my virtual machines (which recieved the same updates) run much slower. One stopped functioning all together and I had to reload it.
3. This morning I could no longer cut and paste from word to outlook, had to reboot. Tihs was on my main desktop and not a virtual machine.
4. Every set of updates in the last 2-3 months locks up my wife's XP media center edition. On my work XP Pro computers I keep losing the sound in my trillian IM. Because our company has all its employees remotely working from home, IM is a vital part of our communication.
5. During one of the last updates to our server, Exchange stopped functioning and we had an email outage for 2 days. Not good when all employees are remote and rely on emails.
6. XP SP3. MS decides to discontinue the /console command when using remote Desktop to log into a PC in console mode. It was replaced with /admin. This is a pain when you support over 200 hospitals (and growing) and have all the RDP connections to multiple PC's and servers saved - so you do not have to enter the IP and password everytime; all you have to do is double click the RDP. Every one of the RDP's that used /console had to be revisted.
7. During one of the lovely updates (and not service pack 3 either), I now get a message in RDP when I try using /console (I even tried to use /admin thinking I got sp3) that this is not a valid computer name. Since I cannot RDP in console mode, I have to pray that mstsc works. On Windows Server 2000, mstsc is not supported, so you are out of luck.
8. During an office update, 3 of my critical automation macros were broken and I had to reprogram them.
10. During one of the updates all my trusted websites in my IE were wiped out.
11. During one of the updates, RDP in 2 of my vurtual machines recieved corrupted Dll's and I had to copy them from my main desk top.
12. more than once I was working in the middle of critical applications and an update loaded. the little restart now or later window poped up behind another window and did not appear on my task bar. This caused my system to reboot in the middle of working on an emergency room interface. Since my system did not reboot cleanly, I had to fix my system and left an emergency room/Lab Interface down for 1/2 an hour.
13. One morning after an office and windows update, I found that all my rules in outlook disappeared, so instead of my junk mail going to my junk folder, alerts going to another folder, etc - I had over 1000 items in my inbox I had to sort through to see what needed addressing now. It took me an hour to re-setup my rules and have my mail going to the right places again.
14. An update to office 2007 cause the business contact manager for outlook to get messed up. It would no longer allow outlook to start up, and I had to uninstall office and reinstall it. This time I did not install business contact manager. every update in office or windows would cause it to get corrupted.
15. I worked for a company last year where an "automatic update" took down a critical server. they had to go back to a restore point, which meant they had to reload data for the applications loaded.
16. When IE7 came in a critical update, all of our web-based applications in a company I worked for stopped working. We had to revert back to IE6 to get customers up and running. then it toook a year to get them straightened out to work with IE7.
17. I had an automatic update corrupt one of the critical operating system files in the WIN32 system folder. In order to save what was on that PC, we had to pull the hard drive and put it in another as a slave and copy off everything. Then we had to format the hard-drive, reload windows, and then copy everything back.
Whew - that was just the last year of so of my memory. Like I said, it seems that only in the last 2-3 years XP updates have wrecked havaok in my life.
Also, tell me why in the MS world, if I have load 2 PC's with office (no plugins on either), and create an access app it works fine, but when I copy it to the other PC and try to run it, it tells me I have missing stuff?? Both PC's wre loaded exactly the same with Office 2003. the only difference is if you look at help, about, and get the version number - the last digit is off. So if you think you got office 2003 and it is compatible with other office 2003's you better think again.
oh and to go along with that long post. most of what I hear is breakage on people's macs where they tweaked the OS or did something wierd. Mac people tend to play and tweak stuff or download a lot of 3rd party apps or open source.
On Windows, you really don'tdare to do that because of viruses and the fact uninstalling something may uninstall one of your critical windows os files (happened to me more than once - why do windows apps like to stick stuff in the system32 folder or overwrite/update a windows os file).
I learned my lesson, only buy or download trusted apps from reputable companies. Or, if you really need something that you question the source - use a virtual machine so you don't hose your main os.
Something mac people should think about, run another leopard in a virtual machine like fusion or something, so that your tweaking down break stuff or get messed up during an update.
On Windows, you really don'tdare to do that because of viruses and the fact uninstalling something may uninstall one of your critical windows os files (happened to me more than once - why do windows apps like to stick stuff in the system32 folder or overwrite/update a windows os file).
I learned my lesson, only buy or download trusted apps from reputable companies. Or, if you really need something that you question the source - use a virtual machine so you don't hose your main os.
Something mac people should think about, run another leopard in a virtual machine like fusion or something, so that your tweaking down break stuff or get messed up during an update.
I am not going to say anything about linux, as I stopped using it. Linux is too open-sourced and trying to get support was frustrating. I could never understand why the x11 desktop was so slow...
All I have to say is my life has gotten a lot easier and hassle free with my mac. Am I lucky - Maybe but I don't beleive in luck. i think the issue comes down to how much you tweak your machine or how much 3 party apps you have on it. Windows updates, I just don't understand - could it be cause of the same issue (3rd party apps), maybe - but when the 3rd party app updates your os files in a system folder, I can see why. on the other hand, why have the updates for XP really starting to show issues in the last couple of years since vista became on the horizon? I can see why Xp had issues before sp2 as it was a new operating system, but even up until sp2 XP seemed to be hassle free, the last year or so after sp2 started started major problems when it comes to support. We get more "can't explain it" types of calls or responses all the time.
I just hope my experience with mac continues because I really love what mac has to office and the fact the apps seem to be much friendlier to work with (and I can really seem to be more efficient with getting stuff done).
All I have to say is my life has gotten a lot easier and hassle free with my mac. Am I lucky - Maybe but I don't beleive in luck. i think the issue comes down to how much you tweak your machine or how much 3 party apps you have on it. Windows updates, I just don't understand - could it be cause of the same issue (3rd party apps), maybe - but when the 3rd party app updates your os files in a system folder, I can see why. on the other hand, why have the updates for XP really starting to show issues in the last couple of years since vista became on the horizon? I can see why Xp had issues before sp2 as it was a new operating system, but even up until sp2 XP seemed to be hassle free, the last year or so after sp2 started started major problems when it comes to support. We get more "can't explain it" types of calls or responses all the time.
I just hope my experience with mac continues because I really love what mac has to office and the fact the apps seem to be much friendlier to work with (and I can really seem to be more efficient with getting stuff done).