13" Macbook Pro Isn't A Pro

[NC MacGuy]

I said that. You dont have to agree with me. I'm just saying, a $1600 laptop shouldnt have a crappy ass 9400M in it. Sure, it is just a name, but all I am saying is that any Pro machine with a Pro tag better have a discrete GPU in it.

I think the 9400M is a pretty good GPU and far from crappy.

I had a 15"uMBP and only switched the graphics over to make sure it worked and as a troubleshooting aid. I found the integrated graphics ran just as well with less heat and less energy needed than the 9600. I'm not a gamer. But I do get paid for my work. That makes my 13"MB a Pro.

 

[Pocket lint]

Any computer that has a integrated GPU is not a pro machine. The low end 15" and 13" are not pro.

Again, it solely depends on what you do. In my line of work, none of the recent Apple MacBooks are "pro". Inferior FW chipset, glossy screens, non-swappable batteries, lack of Expresscard slot, and the comparably low resolution (per inch, if that makes sense), makes it a non-starter.

My old 15" MBP (2007) will never be upgraded to the new ones, because they're all but useless to me. I'd get the same useability from a netbook - or even more, since many of them comes with an expresscard slot.

Anyway, from the sideline (yes, I'm there now), Apple has let the "consumer" set the bar on these computers, and that, to me, means that all of them are decidly "consumer". The antithesis of "pro".
The Mac Pro Behemoth excepted, of course.

 

[synth3tik]

The only "Professional" machines that Apple sells are the Mac Pro & the XServe.

 

[Davidkoh]

It seems to me that anyone who is anti-13" pro isn't allowed to have an opinion yet the pro-13" pros are. Come on guys.

More like retarded people like you who only make retarded threads trying to convince himself he made the right choice shouldn't be allowed to exist. You got 0 arguments, you just keep repeating "its not pro, its not pro". "Pro" is a subjective term, there's no universal definition therefor you cannot say it is not pro. Apple branded it MBP, therefor it can be called a MBP. God damn 12 year olds...

 

[Pocket lint]

I do get paid for my work. That makes my 13"MB a Pro.

I never quite understood that argument. By that token, a soldier who owns some random brand of sandals and use them around camp, suddenly makes the sandals "combat proven"?

More related to computers, though, the argument that someone is using something to make money with, certainly doesn't make it "pro".
A CEO, for instance, might be able to do almost all of his "computering" on a blackberry, or a very old, and much too small netbook, but that doesn't mean either should be considered "pro computers".

I get it, that if you're making money, one could consider you a "pro", but the word has other connotians these days. And in the field of portable computing, this mostly mean creative people, often working on the go.
Another connotation of this is that they have specific needs that need to be met in order for them to be able to do their job - be it card readers, specific panels, audio cards, connectivity for video camera, Wacom tablets and what have you.

To define the word "pro" as equal to "making money with", is either purposefully misinterpreting the term in this context, or perhaps (one would hope) just not thought through.
If "pro" solely meant "making money with", it would be redundant, and it wouldn't work as marketing monicker.

Further, there's a reason we have the terms "consumer", "prosumer" and "pro/professional". The reason being of course, that the consumer don't have specific needs, but mostly go for looks/taste. That's why it is at the bottom - the lowest common denominator if you will.

The "prosumer", is the intermediate term. It's used to define someone who has moved on. Know a bit or two about what they do, and, most importantly, demand certain features - often needed to do his or her hobby.

The "pro/professional", is - as you correctly pointed out - someone who makes a living from something. But in this context it also means someone who works in a niche. A specialist if you will. Someone who not only knows what he's doing and makes a living from it, but also has specific needs that need to be met and are fully aware of those needs. This last bit is important. This is why Apple are using the "pro"-monicker: They deliver the message that this is not just a computer. It's a tool for _professionals_, a tool for people who are the most discerning, have the money to pay for the best (tool), and have the highest bar of all "groups" when it comes to criteria/features that has to be met.

 

[polaris20]

To define the word "pro" as equal to "making money with", is either purposefully misinterpreting the term in this context, or perhaps (one would hope) just not thought through.
If "pro" solely meant "making money with", it would be redundant, and it wouldn't work as marketing monicker.

It's not misinterpreting anything. If you use the computer to make money, it's "Pro". There's no internationally regarded standards organization that has a specification list of what makes a computer "Pro".

So the people getting mad about the MBP 13" being marked "Pro" are just as wrong or right as the people that think the MBP 13" should be marked "Pro".

In short, "Pro" means nothing. This constant bickering over what deserves being called "Pro" is simply retarded. Anyone, especially a "professional" whatever, will hopefully have half a brain enough to look at the specs and determine if a given product suits their needs or not. Do people actually buy a product simply because of the name, particularly if they're to use it professionally? I sure don't.

I use my MBP 15" in 9400m mode all the time professionally. I could just as well use my MBP 13" for the same functions. Which one is more "Pro"? Is the 15" sometimes "Pro", sometimes not, depending upon if the 9600 is engaged? Perhaps Apple could make everyone happy by having the "Pro" logo only light up when the 9600 is engaged.

To people like you, "professional" = "graphics/video/misc. creative venture"

That's simply not always the case, whether you like it or not. If it were, the MacBook would be labeled "MacBook Creative Pro". Then you'd have a right to complain.

 

[NC MacGuy]

Damn....

I'm going over to the hondaaccordforum forums. I need to start a poll. Should a non-V6 Accord be called an EX? It's not an EX without a V6.

Honda is wrong and anyone who drives a non-V6 Accord EX is not really driving an Accord EX. I think it should be called a Civic Plus.

Give me a break. Members should at a minimum be able to get to school riding the long bus before starting these asinine threads.

I feel cheap & dirty having let shamwow get under my skin.

 

[Pocket lint]

It's not misinterpreting anything. If you use the computer to make money, it's "Pro". There's no internationally regarded standards organization that has a specification list of what makes a computer "Pro".

By that token, there is no such markets as "consumer", "prosumer" and "professional", nor are, say, the Red One-camera, Aaton Cameras, Sound Devices recorders and whatnot "professional" products if used for some pro bono-work or used off the clock. No, they are only "pro" products when they are making money - i.e. not shut down and put in the closet.
Those features the above "gadgets" have isn't what make them "pro" equipment at all

So the people getting mad about the MBP 13" being marked "Pro" are just as wrong or right as the people that think the MBP 13" should be marked "Pro".

I agree that in Apple's case that's very true. But just because some companies like to tap into the connotations the monicker "pro" entails, doesn't mean that pro then means nothing across the board.
It does mean something, and that is why is Apple is (on false grounds, I might add) use that monicker.

In short, "Pro" means nothing.

In Apple's specific case you're right. It's like seeing "Pro Offroad" on a bike in Walmart, or "Surround" on a stereo boombox the same place. That doesn't mean that the there is no such thing as "surround sound", it merely means that the manufacturer taps into the ignorance of the consumer and "borrow" the connotations, so to speak.

This constant bickering over what deserves being called "Pro" is simply retarded. Anyone, especially a "professional" whatever, will hopefully have half a brain enough to look at the specs and determine if a given product suits their needs or not.

Suddenly you agree with me that "professional" has other connotations than simply "making money with". I gather that's the case, because otherwise why would they be any more discerning than the average consumer?

Do people actually buy a product simply because of the name, particularly if they're to use it professionally? I sure don't.

I don't either. But this whole thread is a testament to people buying into the hype that the current Apple laptop set-up is more than merely "consumer". They DO think that Apple's use of the monicker "pro" is more than just tapping into the ignorance of the average consumer. It works. They do think they're getting a piece of "pro" equipment.

I use my MBP 15" in 9400m mode all the time professionally. I could just as well use my MBP 13" for the same functions.

And you could propably use a netbook too.

Which one is more "Pro"? Is the 15" sometimes "Pro", sometimes not, depending upon if the 9600 is engaged? Perhaps Apple could make everyone happy by having the "Pro" logo only light up when the 9600 is engaged.

I agree. Neither are "pro".

To people like you, "professional" = "graphics/video/misc. creative venture"

Yes, but also more demanding and discerning than the average consumer.

To reverse your statement:
To people like you, "If I use a computer for sending emails and take care of my ebay-shop, it's not only a computer with pro features, no, it's a "pro" computer".

That's simply not always the case, whether you like it or not. If it were, the MacBook would be labeled "MacBook Creative Pro". Then you'd have a right to complain.

Nice strawman.

 

[mrsir2009]

Hey I'm 13 lol! By the way, its not comparing the 13" Pro to the other Pros, its comparing the 13" Pro to the 13" MacBook. 13" Pro is a Pro because its superior to the MacBook, making it a Pro

And yeah, I do think those certain 12/13 year olds are idiots posting: 13" is not a Pro Over and over not even reading people's comments on why it IS a Pro lol...

 

[crackbookpro]

It is only a name.

But, there was a day where 'Pro' meant Apple's best technology. I really think not having dedicated graphics is a start to the debate...

 

[Eddyisgreat]

To people like you, "professional" = "graphics/video/misc. creative venture"

That's simply not always the case, whether you like it or not. If it were, the MacBook would be labeled "MacBook Creative Pro". Then you'd have a right to complain.

Uhh, Apple said Pro = Graphics/video/misc. creative venture. To deny the fact is to sit in the dark. The rest of us are just asking for Apple to make a tiny little machine like the 13 inch capable of running some of its higher end applications, or keep it in the ibook/macbook stable and stop pimping it as something as its not. I wrap corporate responisbility around everything I do, and i'd never try to upsell my customers on the super awsome bitch'n deluxe wowza package unless it did some super awsome bitch'n deluxe wowza things.

But the stock keeps on rising, so I can't hate.

 

[nitromullet]

The rest of us are just asking for Apple to make a tiny little machine like the 13 inch capable of running some of its higher end applications.

Aside from screen real estate and the, the primary difference between the 13" and 15" Macbook Pro is the option to add a GeForce 9600M GT. Now, I get that the 9600M GT is a performance upgrade over the 9400M, but what specific high end applications or OS X features can a 9600M GT do that a 9400M cannot?

 

[LedCop]

F L A M E B A I T: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait

See examples courtesy of the OP of this 9 page thread, shambo:

Reason To Buy 15" Over A Cheap 13"

Do You Future Proof Your Purchases?

Does The 13" MBP Run At A Higher Temp Than The 15" Bad Boy?

aaaand of course, this thread, : 13" Macbook Pro Isn't A Pro

F L A M E B A I T: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait

 

[NC MacGuy]

F L A M E B A I T: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait

See examples courtesy of the OP of this 9 page thread, shambo:

Reason To Buy 15" Over A Cheap 13"

Do You Future Proof Your Purchases?

Does The 13" MBP Run At A Higher Temp Than The 15" Bad Boy?

aaaand of course, this thread, : 13" Macbook Pro Isn't A Pro

F L A M E B A I T: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait

Ya' think.

These threads he creates are full of fail. His posts too.

He needs a BANNED under his name since it's obvious he can't get a clue by simply wastelanding & locking the stupid away. The stupid escapes & just pops up again with the same pointless inane banter.

 

[Steve686]

Stupid thread.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, NONE of the portables are PROS compared to the desktop MAC PRO.

Now start ramping how the single CPU Mac Pro isn't really pro either, compared to a dual CPU Mac Pro.

If I took the 17" MBP guts and put it into a 17" White shell custom body, would it be a MBP?

 

[PDE]

What a lott of fuss about absolutely nothing. The Macbook PRO is juxtaposed with Apple's other line, the Macbook. It is in relation to the macbook that it is called PRO by Apple. What does that actually mean? Nothing. It's all been said before, but if a machine is used by a pro, it's pro. If you're a pro and it doesn't do the job, then it's not a pro machine FOR YOU, but that doesn't mean it can't be a pro machine for another, equally legitimate, professional. More power is not the same as pro.

Or: whatever!

 

[jamin100]

LMAO, this thread make me laugh.

Does it really matter?

I guess all the people with the 13" pro think great i now have a pro machine. Then all the people with 15 & 17 inch pros are thinking WTF dont put us in the same caterory as these little crappy things!

LOL. its all about peoples perception of the word PRO. The 13 inchers love it because it makes them feel better then the 15 inchers hate it because there's more "normal" non-pro people with PRO machines...

LOL.... get a grip its a computer for gods sake!

 

[polaris20]

By that token, there is no such markets as "consumer", "prosumer" and "professional", nor are, say, the Red One-camera, Aaton Cameras, Sound Devices recorders and whatnot "professional" products if used for some pro bono-work or used off the clock. No, they are only "pro" products when they are making money - i.e. not shut down and put in the closet.
Those features the above "gadgets" have isn't what make them "pro" equipment at all

The Red camera clearly has features that appeal to a professional user. So does an XL2. Does that mean that only a professional is allowed to buy them? Afterall, there are "consumer" cameras that are surely better suited to them, right?

I agree that in Apple's case that's very true. But just because some companies like to tap into the connotations the monicker "pro" entails, doesn't mean that pro then means nothing across the board.
It does mean something, and that is why is Apple is (on false grounds, I might add) use that monicker.

I don't think it means anything, because there is nothing that defines what professional means, be it in computers, cameras, cars, guitars, etc.

In Apple's specific case you're right. It's like seeing "Pro Offroad" on a bike in Walmart, or "Surround" on a stereo boombox the same place. That doesn't mean that the there is no such thing as "surround sound", it merely means that the manufacturer taps into the ignorance of the consumer and "borrow" the connotations, so to speak.

See above.

Suddenly you agree with me that "professional" has other connotations than simply "making money with". I gather that's the case, because otherwise why would they be any more discerning than the average consumer?

I don't know how you're taking away that I in any way agree with you on that point. A professional will know what they require to get their job done to make money. End of story. It's irrelevant what the label says, just as it's irrelevant what's on the label of a camera, guitar, etc. Can they make money with it? Good. Done.

I don't either. But this whole thread is a testament to people buying into the hype that the current Apple laptop set-up is more than merely "consumer". They DO think that Apple's use of the monicker "pro" is more than just tapping into the ignorance of the average consumer. It works. They do think they're getting a piece of "pro" equipment.

Seeing as how Apple actually lowered the price of the 13"s while improving the screen and adding FW800 back in, they can call it the "MacBook Circus Edition" and I really wouldn't care.

And you could propably use a netbook too.

Last time I looked, 4 or 5 virtual machines don't run so hot on a netbook, while also running Entourage, Terminal, RDP, NX, and FF.

I agree. Neither are "pro".

My point is nothing is "Pro". Nothing is inherently Pro based upon the name. Not a laptop, not a guitar, not a video camera. Nothing. It's all stupid to me. Please show me an international standards list for what makes a pro D-SLR. What makes a pro video camera. What makes a pro guitar. What makes a "Pro" computer. If a professional finds that a particular item suits their needs in order to do their job, then it's professional. If a consumer finds that they prefer a given set of features even if it happens to say "Pro" on it, so be it.

Are you getting the point yet?

I honestly wish Apple would remove "Pro" from anything so people that concerned about it can just move on to another brand and be happy.

 

[polaris20]

Uhh, Apple said Pro = Graphics/video/misc. creative venture. To deny the fact is to sit in the dark. The rest of us are just asking for Apple to make a tiny little machine like the 13 inch capable of running some of its higher end applications, or keep it in the ibook/macbook stable and stop pimping it as something as its not. I wrap corporate responisbility around everything I do, and i'd never try to upsell my customers on the super awsome bitch'n deluxe wowza package unless it did some super awsome bitch'n deluxe wowza things.

But the stock keeps on rising, so I can't hate.

What doesn't run on the 2.53Ghz MBP 13" that does run on the 2.66Ghz MBP 15" that gets you through your day?

CS4 runs fine. VMWare Fusion runs fine. RDP runs fine. Terminal runs fine. Final Cut Pro runs fine. Logic runs fine.

So what as a creative "pro", doesn't work for you?

The take away here is that "Pro" means ">9400 graphics" and "no glossy screen". Am I right?

Somehow, I manage to still get stuff done without even engaging the 9600, and somehow I can still see the screen, even though it's glossy.

 

[Pocket lint]

The Red camera clearly has features that appeal to a professional user. So does an XL2. Does that mean that only a professional is allowed to buy them? Afterall, there are "consumer" cameras that are surely better suited to them, right?

Sigh ..

No, of course any numnut can purchase the Red One-camera. Any consumer can do so. But that doesn't make the Red One-camera a consumer camera, now does it?
Your argument was that if something is used to make money with, then it must be considered "pro". That must mean that the reverse must also be true: That if something is used for non-profit purposes, then it must be "consumer".
That means that if someone well-healed, but otherwise just a plain a consumer, buys the Red One-camera, it is then a consumer-camera.

That is such a nonsensical notion I really don't know what to say, other than: There is such a thing as pro equipment.

I don't think it means anything, because there is nothing that defines what professional means, be it in computers, cameras, cars, guitars, etc.

Just because there aren't a simple one-liner definition of a term doesn't mean that the term is meaningless or have no meaning. There are many terms and notions that aren't easily defined except in context, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless. Take a look at the term, or notion of, if you will,"true friendship" or the notion of "love", for instance.

See above.

Still don't get it, huh?
There's a reason we have terms like "amateur", "beginner", "intermediate (user)", as well. Just because it means different things depending on context, doesn't mean the terms are meaningless.
Let me give you an example:
I'm a highly proficient language user - in Danish. I am a professional language user in Danish - not just because I make a living of said usage, but because I know what I'm doing. I'm using the language professionally and proficiently, fully aware of what I'm saying, the impact of what I write have and so on.

In english, on the other hand, at times I'm pretty amateurish, usually at an intermediate level, and at times highly proficient, depending on the subject at hand. Does that mean that all levels of proficiency are useless notions?
No, of course not.

I don't know how you're taking away that I in any way agree with you on that point. A professional will know what they require to get their job done to make money. End of story. It's irrelevant what the label says, just as it's irrelevant what's on the label of a camera, guitar, etc. Can they make money with it? Good. Done.

Of course it's irrelevant what the label says. It's all about proficiency and competence. A pro will know these things. An amateur, or a "consumer" will seldomly.
That is where you "agree". You can't on one hand claim that the term "pro" means nothing, and then in the next breath adhere knowledge and demands to the term "pro". That means that "pro" means more to you than merely "making money with" - it means, among other things to you "more aware than the consumer", "having more knowledge than the consumer", and so on.

Seeing as how Apple actually lowered the price of the 13"s while improving the screen and adding FW800 back in, they can call it the "MacBook Circus Edition" and I really wouldn't care.

I wouldn't either. It would still be a consumer computer. Just like the rest of their portables.

Last time I looked, 4 or 5 virtual machines don't run so hot on a netbook, while also running Entourage, Terminal, RDP, NX, and FF.

Whatta ya know. Fair enough. But surely you could make do with a maxed out consumer model.

My point is nothing is "Pro".

I know that's your point.

Nothing is inherently Pro based upon the name

I never said it was pro based on the name. I said that the term holds meaning, Apple's branding notwithstanding.

Not a laptop, not a guitar, not a video camera. Nothing. It's all stupid to me. Please show me an international standards list for what makes a pro D-SLR. What makes a pro video camera. What makes a pro guitar. What makes a "Pro" computer.

Still demanding some easily fathomed one-liner definitions, are we?

If a professional finds that a particular item suits their needs in order to do their job, then it's professional. If a consumer finds that they prefer a given set of features even if it happens to say "Pro" on it, so be it.

Are you getting the point yet?

Yes, I'm getting that you have trouble distincting "monicker", "branding", "features", "term", and "notion" from each other.

 

[Lexicon]

Your mom's a Pro and you don't see me complaining.

 

[Emerica]

What about the history? The PowerBook line had a small (12"), medium (15"), and large (17") screen size. So yes, the 13" MacBook Pro is and deserves the pro label.

 

[zachplaysguitar]

Stupid thread.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, NONE of the portables are PROS compared to the desktop MAC PRO.

Now start ramping how the single CPU Mac Pro isn't really pro either, compared to a dual CPU Mac Pro.

If I took the 17" MBP guts and put it into a 17" White shell custom body, would it be a MBP?

This.

Who honestly gives a sh**? IF YOU LIKE THE COMPUTER THATS IT. END OF STORY

 

[mrsir2009]

This.

Who honestly gives a sh**? IF YOU LIKE THE COMPUTER THATS IT. END OF STORY

Yeah you don't need to make tons of threads about it to try make people accept what YOU think! IF you don't think its a PRO thats fine, if you do its FINE!

 

[polaris20]

Sigh ..

No, of course any numnut can purchase the Red One-camera. Any consumer can do so. But that doesn't make the Red One-camera a consumer camera, now does it?
Your argument was that if something is used to make money with, then it must be considered "pro". That must mean that the reverse must also be true: That if something is used for non-profit purposes, then it must be "consumer".
That means that if someone well-healed, but otherwise just a plain a consumer, buys the Red One-camera, it is then a consumer-camera.

That is such a nonsensical notion I really don't know what to say, other than: There is such a thing as pro equipment.





Just because there aren't a simple one-liner definition of a term doesn't mean that the term is meaningless or have no meaning. There are many terms and notions that aren't easily defined except in context, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless. Take a look at the term, or notion of, if you will,"true friendship" or the notion of "love", for instance.






Still don't get it, huh?
There's a reason we have terms like "amateur", "beginner", "intermediate (user)", as well. Just because it means different things depending on context, doesn't mean the terms are meaningless.
Let me give you an example:
I'm a highly proficient language user - in Danish. I am a professional language user in Danish - not just because I make a living of said usage, but because I know what I'm doing. I'm using the language professionally and proficiently, fully aware of what I'm saying, the impact of what I write have and so on.

In english, on the other hand, at times I'm pretty amateurish, usually at an intermediate level, and at times highly proficient, depending on the subject at hand. Does that mean that all levels of proficiency are useless notions?
No, of course not.





Of course it's irrelevant what the label says. It's all about proficiency and competence. A pro will know these things. An amateur, or a "consumer" will seldomly.
That is where you "agree". You can't on one hand claim that the term "pro" means nothing, and then in the next breath adhere knowledge and demands to the term "pro". That means that "pro" means more to you than merely "making money with" - it means, among other things to you "more aware than the consumer", "having more knowledge than the consumer", and so on.





I wouldn't either. It would still be a consumer computer. Just like the rest of their portables.






Whatta ya know. Fair enough. But surely you could make do with a maxed out consumer model.



I know that's your point.



I never said it was pro based on the name. I said that the term holds meaning, Apple's branding notwithstanding.


Still demanding some easily fathomed one-liner definitions, are we?




Yes, I'm getting that you have trouble distincting "monicker", "branding", "features", "term", and "notion" from each other.

Fine you win. I can see labels and classifications are painfully important to you, however completely ridiculous it is. I guess you should move on from Apple then, since they're not really "professional".

And I didn't say "one-liner" definitions. I'm looking for complete specifications for "professional" classification. Everything. Can you point me to it?