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15inch PowerBook Details and Supplies
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Snowy_River
macrumors 68030
Yes, but innovation today leads to new markets tomorrow. The biggest piece of hardware innovation that Apple has been working on for the last few years has barely hit the market. Give it a chance to make its splash...
Snowy_River
macrumors 68030
Re: Re: Car Talk
I know exactly what you mean. I can't stand to work on Windows. Or even Linux, for that matter. I'm not entirely certain what it is, but it just has never felt truly comfortable. However, that said, I spend almost as much time working with Windows and Linux machines as I do with my Macs (used to be that I had to spend more time with Windows, but I'm out of that job now...).
I know exactly what you mean. I can't stand to work on Windows. Or even Linux, for that matter. I'm not entirely certain what it is, but it just has never felt truly comfortable. However, that said, I spend almost as much time working with Windows and Linux machines as I do with my Macs (used to be that I had to spend more time with Windows, but I'm out of that job now...).
Snowy_River
macrumors 68030
Oh, I love the Cube. I'd love to own one. I think that was the sexiest desktop computer ever. If I had the money I'd buy one off of eBay and upgrade it to be a 1.4GHz G4. That would be a nice machine...
Of course, if I had the money, I'd buy a new G5, too....
Snowy_River
macrumors 68030
Thank you for posting this. I'm quite astonished that people still think this way. Mac OS is not the only competitor to Windows. Linux is growing in popularity, and allows people to keep their old Intel/AMD hardware. Plus, IE is not the only browser for Windows. I'd be curious to find out about what percentage of Windows users use something other than IE for their web browser. If it's anything more than 10%, then websites coded specifically for IE are cutting out perhaps as much as 20% of their possible customer base. That's a pretty foolish marketing decision, by any stretch of the imagination...
Snowy_River
macrumors 68030
Hehehe... 😀
This is great! I like it!
Honestly, I've gotten dates out of debating the merits of different computing platforms...
[edit] P.S. Sorry about the string of posts... Just catching up on this thread.... [/edit]
Lol snowy like the 5 posts... Last time I did that I was approached and warned by a Macrumors moderator !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
Developer community/market share
I agree. If it was 15/20% with a heavy professional user bias theen it would be irrelevant. If, however, the market share gets to the point where software developers get nervous that's anotheer story. and that, looknig at evidence from Adobe of late, would seem to be about now.
Apple have taken a serious risk taking formerly friendly software developers on, and even the remotest thought that Photoshop 8/9 ehatever wouldn't make it to OS X is enough to send me to the PC shop...
Developer community/market share
I agree. If it was 15/20% with a heavy professional user bias theen it would be irrelevant. If, however, the market share gets to the point where software developers get nervous that's anotheer story. and that, looknig at evidence from Adobe of late, would seem to be about now.
Apple have taken a serious risk taking formerly friendly software developers on, and even the remotest thought that Photoshop 8/9 ehatever wouldn't make it to OS X is enough to send me to the PC shop...
As I understand it, it's
I.E. 6 62%
I.E. 5 32%
I.E. 4 0.9%
Netscape: 1.1%
Gecko-based: 2.3%
Opera: 1.2%
Others/unidentified: 1.5%
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm
That's a small section of a huge market, and one I'd happily ignore if it saved me time and money. Cynical, but true. One thing we've all learned is that you can't expect to be treated fairly just because there are standards. Ask anyone at Guantánamo Bay.
From the site you link: "Use stats with extreme caution." This warning is posted on that page TWICE. And maybe you didn't know that the user agent string that most javascripts use for browser detection is extremely shaky for actually telling what browser folks are using. Especially when Opera and many gecko based browsers let you spoof the user agent to get around @**hole sites that bar users of a particular browser (these are places that don't want your business.) I think a lot of people would be shocked to know exactly how many surfers are still using NN 4.x just because it's what came on their computer and they can't be bothered to update it, or don't even know they should.
Edit: Oh, and lord flash used the one set out of four that made IE look the MOST dominant. It was still mighty on the other three sets, but not quite 95%. More like 80-85. 🙁
What IS 10% of 600 million? If you were a business, would you want to turn away that many customers just to keep coding crap code? Sorry, lord flash, but following the W3C standards is what saves you time, not tweaking your site to the oddities of IE. The standards-based way puts the work on the browser maker, not the coder.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
-Richard
ps: C'mon, Apple, give us something we can embrace unapologetically.
EDIT: Performance comparison: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35845&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post468642
That may be true in the desktop world with the dual G5, but its certainly not true in the laptop world. In response to requests, I posted a comparison of the 15" PB and the Dell 600M ... which is half the price and arguably faster (although less cool). Feel free to comment on that if I missed something though - most didn't, although it did kill off the performance thread pretty efficiently.
-Richard
ps: C'mon, Apple, give us something we can embrace unapologetically.
EDIT: Performance comparison: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35845&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post468642
This is interesting. I would have thought I.E. had a little less of the market. I also thought AOL would have fallen under the "Others" category but from what you are showing, it looks like I.E.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
By "equivalent", are you talking about build quality and the like? I believe this is a myth. I sysadmined Macs for years, and we had our fair share of hardware problems. Our local Mac hardware repair guy was kept very busy, trust me. In hardware, Apple has an advantage in aesthetics, not in build quality or reliability. What room is there for differentiation, after all? All the parts are industry standard, except the motherboard which is solid state. It either works or it doesn't, and the silicon is equally likely to fail on either side.
Can you find me a reasonable example of a non-clone Mac beating a PC in price/performance? I know that there is no Mac that can beat *all* comparably-performing PCs in price/performance, and as I mentioned above IME there is no difference in reliability between the cheaper PCs and the more expensive Macs.
True. Up until a year ago, or probably actually even more than that. That's when they should have started designing the G5 laptop--at the same time they were starting the G5 desktop design. So that we could have the G5 laptop now.
Yes. Won't look as nice, of course. Anyway, this is irrelevant since not many people build their own PCs. We can stick with pre-built PCs to compare to--but we don't have to stick with big name brands.
What is your source for this? Perhaps that is what Apple would like you to believe, but it was not the case. We worked with plenty of Mac clones and they worked great! Percentage-wise, from a reliability perspective they worked as well as the Apples. The reason they killed the clones was your first reason--Apple couldn't compete on price. They are set up to be able to survive in a little local monopoly, and that's it. Instead of restructuring to survive in a new environment, they just shut it down and went back to the same old situation. The fact that introducing competition and PC-class prices into the Mac market caused Apple to nearly go bankrupt proves that Apple wasn't matching price/performance in a competitive clone marketplace.
No, the real Apple advantage is the OS--that is the reason Mac users stuck around even when Macs were more expensive. But that advantage only applies for existing users, not switchers (I am talking in general, of course). You are not going to get switchers by telling them the OS is better, because potential switchers generally see OSX as a disadvantage (for the reasons I stated before). You have to give them a good deal on price/performance--in fact you have to beat PCs in that area to overcome the disadvantages--perceived and real--of the OS.
And even existing users will leave if the price/performance gets too bad (G4 powerbooks at the same price points are a step in that direction). As rjstanford mentioned (paraphrasing), "I like Macs, but I won't get one if it reduces my productivity." A trend like that can only be bad for MacOS, and so this is a situation I don't want to see.
By "equivalent", are you talking about build quality and the like? I believe this is a myth. I sysadmined Macs for years, and we had our fair share of hardware problems. Our local Mac hardware repair guy was kept very busy, trust me. In hardware, Apple has an advantage in aesthetics, not in build quality or reliability. What room is there for differentiation, after all? All the parts are industry standard, except the motherboard which is solid state. It either works or it doesn't, and the silicon is equally likely to fail on either side.
Can you find me a reasonable example of a non-clone Mac beating a PC in price/performance? I know that there is no Mac that can beat *all* comparably-performing PCs in price/performance, and as I mentioned above IME there is no difference in reliability between the cheaper PCs and the more expensive Macs.
True. Up until a year ago, or probably actually even more than that. That's when they should have started designing the G5 laptop--at the same time they were starting the G5 desktop design. So that we could have the G5 laptop now.
Yes. Won't look as nice, of course. Anyway, this is irrelevant since not many people build their own PCs. We can stick with pre-built PCs to compare to--but we don't have to stick with big name brands.
What is your source for this? Perhaps that is what Apple would like you to believe, but it was not the case. We worked with plenty of Mac clones and they worked great! Percentage-wise, from a reliability perspective they worked as well as the Apples. The reason they killed the clones was your first reason--Apple couldn't compete on price. They are set up to be able to survive in a little local monopoly, and that's it. Instead of restructuring to survive in a new environment, they just shut it down and went back to the same old situation. The fact that introducing competition and PC-class prices into the Mac market caused Apple to nearly go bankrupt proves that Apple wasn't matching price/performance in a competitive clone marketplace.
No, the real Apple advantage is the OS--that is the reason Mac users stuck around even when Macs were more expensive. But that advantage only applies for existing users, not switchers (I am talking in general, of course). You are not going to get switchers by telling them the OS is better, because potential switchers generally see OSX as a disadvantage (for the reasons I stated before). You have to give them a good deal on price/performance--in fact you have to beat PCs in that area to overcome the disadvantages--perceived and real--of the OS.
And even existing users will leave if the price/performance gets too bad (G4 powerbooks at the same price points are a step in that direction). As rjstanford mentioned (paraphrasing), "I like Macs, but I won't get one if it reduces my productivity." A trend like that can only be bad for MacOS, and so this is a situation I don't want to see.
UK Education Discount Deals
Getting back to a more Powerbook related theme,
educational customers may be interested to know that the current offer:
Have Fun, Get More Done
£180 off a bundle consisting of any Powerbook or selected iBooks together with iPod and HP Printer (£120 for just laptop + iPod) started on August 25th 2003 and runs till November 25th
I think it's similar to the $300 US discount
This means that any forthcoming new powerbook release would be covered by this promotion (unless they really take ages)
I think the educational 10% off a laptop plus that deal would really equal a good package (effectively around 20% discount, which is close to refurb prices!), so hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of that soon.
Just a question about other apple discounts, is anyone here a member of ADC, i know they allow students to joing for just $99. They give you 20% off a purchase right? does this cover everything, as in could you get a pbook, ipod, office etc and have all this under the discount?
Thanks in advance
Getting back to a more Powerbook related theme,
educational customers may be interested to know that the current offer:
Have Fun, Get More Done
£180 off a bundle consisting of any Powerbook or selected iBooks together with iPod and HP Printer (£120 for just laptop + iPod) started on August 25th 2003 and runs till November 25th
I think it's similar to the $300 US discount
This means that any forthcoming new powerbook release would be covered by this promotion (unless they really take ages)
I think the educational 10% off a laptop plus that deal would really equal a good package (effectively around 20% discount, which is close to refurb prices!), so hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of that soon.
Just a question about other apple discounts, is anyone here a member of ADC, i know they allow students to joing for just $99. They give you 20% off a purchase right? does this cover everything, as in could you get a pbook, ipod, office etc and have all this under the discount?
Thanks in advance
I totaly disagree. I always try to convinced my girlfriend that she cannot buy something just because specs seems pretty good. Cie. only show thing they want, too sell more computer (apple does it too).
Kia claim to have a fantastic 125 HP( i dont realy remember the model), but when you try the car you understand why the car is so cheap and why youre not able to be on time to work with it. (sorry for bringing back the car thing)
You dont buy a car based on the vendor specs, you dont buy a computer based on the vendor specs. Who know, maybe Dell put some crappy cheap ram in his computer(speculation),....
When you buy apple you know you have quality hardware in it.
No, and if large scale businesses were the only ones then I'd agree completely, but I want to be able to see everything. If I can't see a website, it doesn't console me that it is sloppy design practice if it works perfectly well on everyone else's machine.
Also, if I calculated that it was that much cheaper to design a website for the 90% (bearing in mind PC users can easily switch browsers, so they could get there if they really wanted), than the expected earnings from the 5-10%, then no, I woudln't bother making the site compatible. At the moment that's not a problem as must stuff is cross platform in design terms, but it might not always be so.
Also, there are plenty of large businesses that already seem to take badly to Safari. I use it despite that - I love its tabbed browsing and speed - but only because I have the choice to switch to i.e.
i suppose that'll be true for the forseeable on the mac, given 40% windows users are still on i.e. 5 - at least 2 years of life there, eh?
Re: UK Education Discount Deals
I think that is how it works here in Norway at least. I ordered an iMac and included a few power supplies, a new battery for my iBook and other accessories. I got them all with 20% off. I think it would work with an iPod as well. I am bit unsure about 3rd party products such as office.
I think that is how it works here in Norway at least. I ordered an iMac and included a few power supplies, a new battery for my iBook and other accessories. I got them all with 20% off. I think it would work with an iPod as well. I am bit unsure about 3rd party products such as office.
Except that Mac owners tend to have a higher disposable income than the average PC owner. (Because we all "know" how expensive Macs are, and how gullible their owners are, and how quickly they part with their money since they're so stupid. 😉 ) So 10% of the people may give you 50% of your profits.
Hmmmm. Makes you think.
Well there's always a bit of that, of course. In the same way that Adobe'll still put out Photoshop for the Mac long after they've given up updating everything else, because that's where a good junk of us 'creative pros' are. Perhaps that's my real problem here - have I got enough disposable income to be a Mac owener? And will I still have one after I've become a mac owner? (yes and no in that order, methinks).
But, if I have a Mac, people will think I've got more disposable income and be attracted to me (or so I read in this very forum!) 😉
Squire
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
The thought of decreased market share and, subsequently, the loss of some great software products doesn't faze me a bit. In addition to building great hardware, Apple is a formidable software company. I'm sure that they could come up with a Photoshop replacement if the need arose.
Squire
The thought of decreased market share and, subsequently, the loss of some great software products doesn't faze me a bit. In addition to building great hardware, Apple is a formidable software company. I'm sure that they could come up with a Photoshop replacement if the need arose.
Squire
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
It's exactly that sort of thing that worries me. I don't want the need to arise - I want to be confident of compatibility. In amongst my many jobs, my favourite is writing about computer programs. Publishers aren't gonna be keen in something for a niche market if there could be something for the windows market. Only while PS remains identical on each platform (and prettier on the Mac) does the Mac remain a tempting prospect.
And there must be others out there who would desert if Photoshop was no longer on the Mac. That would be the difference, surely, between being in a smaller boat, which I can cope with and a sinking ship.
I agree that Apple's applications have always been good (even if they do use the public as beta testers with woefully bug-riddled releases from time to time - iMovie, anyone?), but they need a critical mass too...
It's exactly that sort of thing that worries me. I don't want the need to arise - I want to be confident of compatibility. In amongst my many jobs, my favourite is writing about computer programs. Publishers aren't gonna be keen in something for a niche market if there could be something for the windows market. Only while PS remains identical on each platform (and prettier on the Mac) does the Mac remain a tempting prospect.
And there must be others out there who would desert if Photoshop was no longer on the Mac. That would be the difference, surely, between being in a smaller boat, which I can cope with and a sinking ship.
I agree that Apple's applications have always been good (even if they do use the public as beta testers with woefully bug-riddled releases from time to time - iMovie, anyone?), but they need a critical mass too...
Squire
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
I switched because of the reliability and ease of the OS and the accompanying software. That was my main reason. My secondary reason was aesthetics. My iMac gives me more desk space and looks great.
I believe the "It just works" comments from switchers tell the story. For people who listen to mp3's, take digital photos, and surf the Net- in other words, the typical recreational computer user- you don't need a blazingly fast computer. And a lot of people are more than willing to sacrifice 10 seconds in the run of a day for the ease of use and lack of frustration.
So, I guess I disagree with you. I think most switchers do so because of the OS.
Squire
I switched because of the reliability and ease of the OS and the accompanying software. That was my main reason. My secondary reason was aesthetics. My iMac gives me more desk space and looks great.
I believe the "It just works" comments from switchers tell the story. For people who listen to mp3's, take digital photos, and surf the Net- in other words, the typical recreational computer user- you don't need a blazingly fast computer. And a lot of people are more than willing to sacrifice 10 seconds in the run of a day for the ease of use and lack of frustration.
So, I guess I disagree with you. I think most switchers do so because of the OS.
Squire
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re^10: Comparing notebooks
That's whay I want to switch (at home - already got Macs at work now). OS X is how an OS should be, as far as I'm concerned. More than anything else, not immediately quitting an application just because I've closed the window strikes me as great.
Other nice touches - iMovie, the lack of viruses and the look and feel are factors.
That's not to say I won't miss Window's software market, price/power ratio and the like. The last straw was when I realised I'd have to get XP with a new PC, which has that stupid dog in its search engine...
That's whay I want to switch (at home - already got Macs at work now). OS X is how an OS should be, as far as I'm concerned. More than anything else, not immediately quitting an application just because I've closed the window strikes me as great.
Other nice touches - iMovie, the lack of viruses and the look and feel are factors.
That's not to say I won't miss Window's software market, price/power ratio and the like. The last straw was when I realised I'd have to get XP with a new PC, which has that stupid dog in its search engine...