Could it be to do with the additional motion blur that some have reported? The 16" seems to have significantly poorer response times than the preceding 15" models.
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16 inch MacBook Pro causes eye strain/pain while 15 inch Retina does not?
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I don't think that's it, I also felt it when looking at a still screen. Also, the motion blur wasn't much worse than on my 15".
Another thing: I have noticed that most people having issues were upgrading from older machines. It would be interesting if these people also had issues with 2017/2018 15".
It's not the motion blur. Yes, the 16 inch is much worse in terms of motion blur than previous generations, but I get eye strain even when staring at a non-moving page of text.
As I mentioned many started having issues after a certain update by intel, so it should be worth a try switching on using only AMD card for a while and see if something change.
Yes, but that Intel update is relevant on Windows because Mac OS always uses dithering and so does AMD. Although on Windows you can disable it through the registry.
Anyways, I did try switching between the Intel and the AMD with gswitch (https://codyschrank.github.io/gSwitch/) extensively and did not notice a difference.
I had the same problem with the MBA 2018, returned it too.
I started to have some eye strain also with my desktop PC (monitor alienware 240 hz TN panel FULLHD + AMD RX 480) and the problem was the last version of W10 1909 and the latest version of AMD drivers. I decide to install W10 1709 + latest version of amd driver of 2017 and now my eyes are fine again.
Now I am scared to upgrade everything.. GPU, monitor, drivers and OS.
It would be interesting if you also get eye strain on your PC with W10 1709 and the latest AMD drivers, if you additionally follow this instruction for disabling dithering on AMD:
How do I turn off temporal dithering in an AMD graphics card? (1569)
This whole topic is completely new to me, until now I wasn't even aware that some people react sensitive to any kind of screen. What I have learnt is that there is a wide range of how sensitive people can react. Some people can't even look at a TV for more than 5 minutes without getting blood red eyes and painful headaches. Some can only use certain devices, screens or operating systems. And some never had any problems and are only getting them with recent implementations. But what I have gathered is that things are getting worse for those who are sensitive, the newer the screens and the drivers, the more issues there are.
It would be nice if there was more awareness among the companies and if they would include the ability to fine tune the settings according to ones own needs. I read that there is a long thread at the Intel forum which lead to an investigation on Intels part but they dismissed the case and did not reveal their findings.
It would be interesting if you also get eye strain on your PC with W10 1709 and the latest AMD drivers, if you additionally follow this instruction for disabling dithering on AMD:
How do I turn off temporal dithering in an AMD graphics card? (1569)
help.teradici.com
This whole topic is completely new to me, until now I wasn't even aware that some people react sensitive to any kind of screen. What I have learnt is that there is a wide range of how sensitive people can react. Some people can't even look at a TV for more than 5 minutes without getting blood red eyes and painful headaches. Some can only use certain devices, screens or operating systems. And some never had any problems and are only getting them with recent implementations. But what I have gathered is that things are getting worse for those who are sensitive, the newer the screens and the drivers, the more issues there are.
It would be nice if there was more awareness among the companies and if they would include the ability to fine tune the settings according to ones own needs. I read that there is a long thread at the Intel forum which lead to an investigation on Intels part but they dismissed the case and did not reveal their findings.
Yeah... What surprised me was that my eyes were extremely tolerant of pretty much anything I threw at them. 13 hours of video editing on a small laptop screen? Sure. 4 hours of browsing Reddit in a dark room? Yup. Hours and hours of video games on a cheap CRT monitor? Ok. Photo editing on a 27 inch iMac? Fine. Hell, I even spent 2 weeks using a 40 inch 720p LCD TV as a computer monitor once. It was annoying but my eyes didn't hurt at all. I use 12 kHz pulse-width modulated lighting in my room, as well was pulse-width modulated LEDs of various frequencies (from 50 to 100Hz up to several kHz) around the house. I know this because I built them myself to these specifications for video recording to make them flicker-free on camera.
And yet... newest state-of-the art display, supposedly great for your eyes (Bigger, Retina + True Tone + Night Shift), supposedly almost identical to my Late 2013 Retina, and yet feels like I'm staring at the Sun.
Idem. I think we should keep this thread alive and share our findings. Everything points out to a driver related issue. Sadly i suspect few people suffer from this(or many... it would be wise to take account of thousands or millions of naive users who just ignore or blame themselves. I was talking to my mom and she admitted experimenting several eye strain to the point that she kept using her laptop for only 20 minutes a day. And in a year she never pointed that out because she simply thought it was her problem with aging or something although she was just fine with all other devices...) and companies simply don't give a ****. And we should be aware that they're acting in a criminal way, because they certainly know. At least they should supply documentation of possible risks and rare side effects.
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My eye strains stopped after I turned off True Tone & Night Shift. As discussed in this spread, there's a bug in 10.15.2 that causes screen artifacts. Turning off True Tone & Night Shift is a quick workaround and makes my eyes more comfortable.
I had this same problem when I upgraded my MBP a few years ago. It was like the screen was too bright or something. I would get headaches after 10 minutes and it literally hurt my eyes to look at the screen. After a few days it still didn't get better.
After researching, I found a thread where other people where having the same problem. Apparently for the new MBP's that year Apple used LG and Samsung displays. I had the LG display and kept returning the MBP until I got one that didn't hurt my eyes.
I’ve owned the mid-2015 and 2018 MacBooks with no eye strain, but I liked my 2015 panel better.
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After a day with the new MacBook Pro, I do notice a difference for the worse. When reading text, floaters start to appear, like when you look at something really bright and look away, and text just doesn't feel as sharp and as crisp as it should. I wonder if it has anything to do with the new resolution and can be optimized with a software update. Maybe it's just panel lottery, or maybe I'm still adjusting. I don't think it's as bothersome as the 2017 iMac or the Lenovo X1 Extreme I previously owned, but it's similar, and it's really only an issue with text. If I was planning to do hours of reading, writing and typing on it, I might return or exchange. For now I'm ok. My screen is nicely uniform, I don't have any backlight bleed, and I don't think eye strain will be a problem with visual work like photo and video editing. It definitely gets brighter than my 2018 model.
ETA: The text isn't bothering my eyes as much this afternoon. Turning on Night Shift seems to help.
ETA: The text isn't bothering my eyes as much this afternoon. Turning on Night Shift seems to help.
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Wow I like your approach to determining the root cause. Do you still have your 15" MBP and did you confirm you still have no issues using it under the exact same conditions (viewing distance, workstation, eyewear etc)?
I have now sold it unfortunately so I can't compare them scientifically anymore. All I know is that I didn't change the way I use my computer since I got the 16 inch (same viewing times and distance, same brightness in general, same software, etc) and I never had eye pain before. Though I decided to keep my 16 inch now as I couldn't come up with a better solution (returning my Mac and having to rush to buy a Windows machine without a computer while also working every day was not something I wanted to do right now), I'll just have to use it less and take breaks more often.
If you cannot do a side-by-side comparison, it's difficult to judge whether changing computers is responsible for your discomfort, or perhaps another variable. Have there been others reporting similar complaints?
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When I bought my 16 inch I still had my 15 inch, so I did do a side by side comparison for a few days, and the 15 inch didn't give me any eye strain, while the 16 inch did.
All right everyone, I have some news! I started using eye drops called Vizol and I no longer feel any discomfort using my 16 inch MBP. It's all gone and it feels fine. I use the drops once or twice a day, and they're meant to soothe dry eyes. I do have dry eyes but they have never caused me this kind of discomfort, so I never suspected it could be the cause. I mean on the one hand, it makes sense that using a computer with dry eyes can cause discomfort. But on the other hand, the feeling of dry eyes was familiar to me (it feels like your eyes are cold and sensitive), yet the pain from using the new MBP was unfamiliar (it felt like when you wear glasses that are not meant for your eyes, with a too powerful diopter).
To further complicate things, I never had this issue with any previous computer. But correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Maybe having dry eyes made my eyes particularly sensitive to high frequency PWM, which none of the previous computers used. And while PWM should not cause issues, people with dry eyes may find it uncomfortable. Who knows.
All I know is that using Vizol seems to have helped a lot, if not made the problem go away entirely. Of course this may also be coincidence, it's hard to say, but I suggest you try using eye drops. The good thing about Visol is that it doesn't use preservatives so it doesn't damage your eyes in the long run. It has a special bottle so that germs can't contaminate it, and it doesn't expire for 6 months, which means you won't have to wast it. I recommend trying it out. But all "artificial tears" should work, like the ones people use for contact lenses or anything for dry eyes.
To further complicate things, I never had this issue with any previous computer. But correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Maybe having dry eyes made my eyes particularly sensitive to high frequency PWM, which none of the previous computers used. And while PWM should not cause issues, people with dry eyes may find it uncomfortable. Who knows.
All I know is that using Vizol seems to have helped a lot, if not made the problem go away entirely. Of course this may also be coincidence, it's hard to say, but I suggest you try using eye drops. The good thing about Visol is that it doesn't use preservatives so it doesn't damage your eyes in the long run. It has a special bottle so that germs can't contaminate it, and it doesn't expire for 6 months, which means you won't have to wast it. I recommend trying it out. But all "artificial tears" should work, like the ones people use for contact lenses or anything for dry eyes.
The problem as I see it is you're addressing the symptom and not the cause. Its great that you found something to help your eye strain but that doesn't mean you're not suffering from eye strain, just helping alleviate the symptoms of said eye strain
With the said, it sounds like short of getting rid of the laptop, its your only option ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sure but what if dry eyes is the cause though? Dry eyes could make you sensitive to bright light, prolonged staring at monitors, and PWM. Solving either one of these may alleviate the symptoms.
Just to be clear, these eye drops are not painkillers. They simply lubricate the eyes, and do nothing else. If adding moisture to your eyes solves eye pain then it means your pain was to some extent caused by dry eyes.
Imagine you bought new shoes and they make your feet hurt. Turns out you have a blister on your foot that's been there for years but your old shoes didn't rub up on it so you didn't notice it. The solution is to treat the blister, and not to get your old shoes back.
I mean I can't be certain of what's happening but this is an entirely plausible theory from my experience so far.
Nice that you found something that works for you.. just for kicks and giggles I figured I'd try and find this "vizol" stuff, always on the lookout for a good dry eye drop.. doesn't appear to be available for purchase ANYWHERE. amazon, cvs, walgreens, even just google shopping shows no results.. are you an early beta user?