16-Inch MacBook Pro Said to Launch in September With LCD and 3072x1920 Resolution

[ntlman]

Have an opinion on how the decision impacts your own use and the merits of that, if you want, but this post about the reasons being financial is complete nonsense.

Go watch Jobs' keynote presentation on MagSafe and then explain how the decision to just switch to a USB-C cable isn't nickel and diming. As for the iPhone, which you conveniently avoided in your response: what improvement did removing the headphone jack result in? My iPhone 6 supports both wired and bluetooth audio. If Thunderbolt is such an improvement, why does Apple only ship a USB-A cable with the iPhone, requiring a dongle or third party cable to connect the FLAGSHIP PHONE TO THE FLAGSHIP LAPTOP? Where was the source of this nonsense again?

 

[Detnator]

Go watch Jobs' keynote presentation on MagSafe and then explain how the decision to just switch to a USB-C cable isn't nickel and diming. As for the iPhone, which you conveniently avoided in your response: what improvement did removing the headphone jack result in? My iPhone 6 supports both wired and bluetooth audio. If Thunderbolt is such an improvement, why does Apple only ship a USB-A cable with the iPhone, requiring a dongle or third party cable to connect the FLAGSHIP PHONE TO THE FLAGSHIP LAPTOP? Where was the source of this nonsense again?

Apple make some pretty stupid decisions sometimes and this half-hearted commitment to USB-C - as evidenced by your point about the USB-A cable that comes with the iPhone, among others - is potentially one of them.

Cutting the headphone port was not one of them. Lightning offers superior sound (when connected to headphones that support that) and Bluetooth offers better convenience (AirPods selling off the shelves despite so many MR commenters here dissing them). The continued presence of the headphone port would take away from other stuff that made it into the iPhone 7 (and newer) instead. If you can’t see that something has to give then I suppose the next thing you’ll say is Apple is refusing to make phones thicker to save money on materials? Lol. Right.

So yeah... the idea that Apple is cutting ports for financial reasons is still ignorant nonsense.

 

[Steve121178]

Apple's pricing strategy has killed the buzz around Macs. It will obviously cost far more than the obscenely priced 15" MacBook Pro which itself is priced beyond the means of many.

Apple's UK pricing is lunacy.

 

[cool11]

No American person can ever believe how insane is the apple's pricing in Europe. Beyond the term of just 'expensive' or luxury.
And of course this has not to do with just customs/import fees/taxes etc.
Because anything else produced in the far east/China, come to Europe in normal prices.
So, something is bad especially with Apple.
But the do not seem to care at all.
And I can't accept that it is something beyond their control.

 

[ntlman]

Apple make some pretty stupid decisions sometimes and this half-hearted commitment to USB-C - as evidenced by your point about the USB-A cable that comes with the iPhone, among others - is potentially one of them.

Lightning offers superior sound (when connected to headphones that support that) and Bluetooth offers better convenience (AirPods selling off the shelves despite so many MR commenters here dissing them). The continued presence of the headphone port would take away from other stuff that made it into the iPhone 7 (and newer) instead. If you can’t see that something has to give then I suppose the next thing you’ll say is Apple is refusing to make phones thicker to save money on materials? Lol. Right

Again, instead of dodging the question, how about answering it? What did removing the headphone jack allow for? One key example, please.

Lightning does not offer superior sound. In fact, it does not send any "sound" like a traditional headphone. It sends a pure digital signal, the same as the USB A to USB C cable I have going from my Mac to my Fiio K3. Removing the headphone jack also removed the DAC, and if you think the DAC in the lightning earbuds is equal to the DAC driving your Mac, you have really bad hearing. If you wanna come at an audiophile with a defense of Lightning, try first learning what Lightning actually does.

Lightning's benefits have NOTHING to do with the removal of the DAC in the iPhone. They went from including a high quality DAC built into the phone, to... a crappy one in dongle. Bluetooth audio, while convenient, is noticeably lower quality than traditional high end wired cans'.

 

[rdowty]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

 

[Trusteft]

Apple's UK pricing is lunacy.

Try Greece...you need lube just to look at the prices AND no official store here, online or not.

 

[Steve121178]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

Mac keyboards are atrocious and people are not happy with the port selection. I say keep complaining.

 

[SalisburySam]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

Gee, maybe many of us feel there is a problem with the keyboards and ports. Just sayin’.

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
And as far as the port selection on the next MBP goes, we already have a pretty good idea what kinds of ports the PWT wants: Just look at those offered on the new MacPro: 2 x 10 GB Ethernet, 2 x USB-A (w/ USB 3 capability), and 4 X USB-C (w/ TB3 capability).

The 2017 iMac Pro has those same ports. I wouldn’t expect them in a laptop though. On the go, people mostly use Wi-Fi; Ethernet disappeared as of the 2012 Retina MBP. USB-A is just as unlikely.

 

[morze]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

Nothing more boring than hearing someone complain about complaining.

 

[rdowty]

Nothing more boring than hearing someone complain about complaining.

I just think that there are threads for a reason and it would be extremely helpful to stay on topic a bit more. I understand peoples concerns but every new thread isn't an opportunity to rehash a tired subject. The irony isn't lost on me that this conversation is starting to do just that. No more off-topic posts from me on this.

 

[morze]

I just think that there are threads for a reason and it would be extremely helpful to stay on topic a bit more. I understand peoples concerns but every new thread isn't an opportunity to rehash a tired subject. The irony isn't lost on me that this conversation is starting to do just that. No more off-topic posts from me on this.

I get you. I do hope this machine comes out later this year. I’m pretty set on buying it (or an alternative this year if it’s not to my liking). I hope Apple do a little bit of listening or surprise us. It’s so refreshing when a company goes... We hear you, let us deliver.

 

[rdowty]

Is it wishful thinking on my part for it to just be a bezel-less version of the 15" we have now without jacking up the price any?
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Is it wishful thinking on my part for it to just be a bezel-less version of the 15" we have now without jacking up the price any?

Who am I kidding? I know it's going to cost more. How about $300 more? I could live with that.

 

[Ener Ji]

The 2017 iMac Pro has those same ports. I wouldn’t expect them in a laptop though. On the go, people mostly use Wi-Fi; Ethernet disappeared as of the 2012 Retina MBP. USB-A is just as unlikely.

I agree with you, as much as it saddens me. I've made my peace and can make do with only USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports, but darn, having just a single USB-A port would be extremely convenient in a pinch.

 

[Rob_2811]

Apple's pricing strategy has killed the buzz around Macs. It will obviously cost far more than the obscenely priced 15" MacBook Pro which itself is priced beyond the means of many.

Apple's UK pricing is lunacy.

Yep.

Was looking at the new MacBook Air the other day. £1200 for 128gb SSD £1400 for the 256GB so overpriced..

 

[Falhófnir]

It's going to be very expensive so I'm hoping that stock is 16GB/1TB. I want to upgrade to 64GB/3TB.

I hope it has upgradable GPU since it has more space now. Would love to have a single workhorse laptop for Logic, FCP, intensive machine learning, and VR work.

You're more likely to still have the same choice of 2TB (which currently is a $600 upgrade from 1TB) or 4TB (which currently costs an eye watering $2,400 from 1TB). An M.2 slot for storage expansion would be nice, but ultimately probably still quite unlikely.
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Those have nothing to do with each other. An IPS display is a TFT display.

Are you thinking of TN?

And at that even modern TN panels can actually be quite good, there's a few on the market now that have decent viewing angles. I think people still assume TN = 2010 MBA display, when in fact the technology itself has moved on in the last 9 years

 

[PickUrPoison]

I agree with you, as much as it saddens me. I've made my peace and can make do with only USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports, but darn, having just a single USB-A port would be extremely convenient in a pinch.

I agree. I suppose we’ll never know why they didn’t put a couple on the MBP, at least.

 

[theorist9]

The 2017 iMac Pro has those same ports. I wouldn’t expect them in a laptop though. On the go, people mostly use Wi-Fi; Ethernet disappeared as of the 2012 Retina MBP. USB-A is just as unlikely.

You may be right about the Ethernet port being unlikely.* As a gauge of what ports pros who buy high-powered laptops want, it's useful to check mobile workstations from companies that specialize in catering to that market (Dell, HP, etc.). Only some of the units have an Ethernet port. [Though that includes the HP ZBook 15, which IDC reports is the world's no. 1 selling mobile workstation.] But, universally, they offer USB-A across their entire model lines, strongly suggesting there is a broad and consistent desire for those. So, if the PWT (Pro Workflow Team) has a preference, my guess it would be to have USB-A. It remains to be seen what influence they will have on the new MBP's. We'll have to check back in September!

[Pretty much all of these mobile workstations also have HDMI, but the fact that it's not on the Mac Pro makes its potential presence on the new MBP seem less likely.]

*I was also thinking that port might be too tall for an Apple laptop; HP's ZBook 15 is 0.73" thick, and that leaves the bottom of the port nearly flush with the bottom of the case, precluding Apple from bordering it on the bottom with a smooth curve. [The port itself is 8.30 mm = 0.37" tall.]

 

[DanBig]

Pro for you is not pro for the next person. What exactly does pro mean? I know a ton of artists, designers, film makers and app developers that just don't want to mess with upgrading a machine.

The desire to upgrade ones own machine is actually not pro at all. A lot of corporate clients and content creators don't want to mess with upgrades or their own repairs. They want a machine that works well land doesn't get in the way of their craft. If it breaks and isn't under warranty then they move on to the next machine. The need for one to do their own upgrades is not a pro thing but a budget thing. A pro would want to move on to the latest CPU, GPU and storage technologies every couple of years. vs adding ram to a outdated and slow machine. A computer that struggles with the CPU and GPU isn't going to suddenly work better with more ram. Thats why a lot of pros would rather move on every couple of years. Statistically Apple knows in all the years when Macs could upgrade ram very few people actually did it. I'm not talking a small snapshot of forum members that like that sort of thing but a percentage of hundreds of thousands of MBPs sold. Most pros in fact just don't want to mess with that sort of thing.

We would all like a MBP with upgradable ram and storage but honestly I just don't think it would have a ton of impact on most users. I have a 2011 17" that I upgraded the ram to 16gb and the CPU and GPU and ports still suck. At work I use a 2014 MBP with 16gb of ram and develop mobile apps and rarely run out of memory. Moving to 32gb would not have a lot of impact on what I do and the CPU would still take just as long to compile a build of an app.

Storage is easy to update today thanks to thunderbolt 3 which can be adapted to just about anything.

If you actually need 32gb then get 32gb and try to cut the cost somewhere else like a lower end CPU or with only 256GB of SSD storage vs the 512GB. Also look into the refurbished to help offset the cost of the 32gb. Assuming you can find one with 32gb of ram.

Let's put this into perspective! How many of us change out our cars oil and filter? Most of us don't!

So now what if you need to replace your car instead of the oil and its filter, would you think thats going a bit far? I do!

I don't disagree the artist or who ever may not want to get their hands dirty opening their system thats fine!

But, I would say most would still like the Option to have someone help them add more RAM or storage as the system they bought still has the needed power, just lacking on what they need today for RAM or storage.

We really need to get off the throw-away model Apple has pushed the last few years. Its very wasteful! And for many totally unneeded as extending the life of the system is much more cost effective than getting a new system. There is no reason for a system not to last eight years just like my car!

 

[DanBig]

You may be right about the Ethernet port being unlikely.* As a gauge of what ports pros who buy high-powered laptops want, it's useful to check mobile workstations from companies that specialize in catering to that market (Dell, HP, etc.). Only some of the units have an Ethernet port. [Though that includes the HP ZBook 15, which IDC reports is the world's no. 1 selling mobile workstation.] But, universally, they offer USB-A across their entire model lines, strongly suggesting there is a broad and consistent desire for those. So, if the PWT (Pro Workflow Team) has a preference, my guess it would be to have USB-A. It remains to be seen what influence they will have on the new MBP's. We'll have to check back in September!

[Pretty much all of these mobile workstations also have HDMI, but the fact that it's not on the Mac Pro makes its potential presence on the new MBP seem less likely.]

*I was also thinking that port might be too tall for an Apple laptop; HP's ZBook 15 is 0.73" thick, and that leaves the bottom of the port nearly flush with the bottom of the case, precluding Apple from bordering it on the bottom with a smooth curve. [The port itself is 8.30 mm = 0.37" tall.]

The new Pro's 16" MacBook Pro would more than likely have a much thicker case so the CPU is not constrained thermally like the current models are. I'm thinking at that point the issue of space becomes moot.

Ethernet is still much faster than WiFi and as this is a Pro's Pro it's more likely to have it as well as USB-A (2). Remember the PCH logic already has all of the plumbing present for both only needs to be hooked up. Don't forget many companies require wired connections no Bluetooth or WiFi for either security concerns or the EMI noise messes up lab equipment.

HDMI is a bit tricky! Someone who presents would more likely need it. A person is not likely to use a HDMI display as their second display when DisplayPort is the more dominate monitor standard. If you are going to need have a Dongle what is the least needed in the field? Thats why I think HDMI is the unlucky winner here. HDMI also requires a lot of added logic.

And lastly, MagSafe via a recessed USB-C port (rear L&R) makes an easy slam-dunk (Apple missed than in the current models). SD card support is not that big a jump.

 

[chucker23n1]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

The keyboard is a significant concern, particularly given that it's the only keyboard across the entire MacBook line-up. In other words, if you want any laptop at all running macOS, you're stuck with this keyboard (barring external ones). Given that, it better be a pretty damn good keyboard, and reliability-wise, that just doesn't seem to be the case.

The ports, meh. Dongles are less than ideal, but not that big a deal.
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The new Pro's 16" MacBook Pro would more than likely have a much thicker case so the CPU is not constrained thermally like the current models are. I'm thinking at that point the issue of space becomes moot.

Ethernet is still much faster than WiFi and as this is a Pro's Pro it's more likely to have it as well as USB-A (2).

USB-A I can see. Ethernet? No frigging way. Maybe (that's quite a stretch) as an early MacBook Air-style trap door. But to put an Ethernet port on this model would make it quite a niche variant, not the general-purpose high-end laptop. It'd simply be too thick.

Now maybe, maybe they'll bundle in a 10 GigE Thunderbolt adapter. The rMBPs had a 1 GigE Thunderbolt adapter bundled in (I believe? Maybe I bought it?).

HDMI is a bit tricky! Someone who presents would more likely need it. A person is not likely to use a HDMI display as their second display when DisplayPort is the more dominate monitor standard.

Uhhhh HDMI is way more widespread among projectors, TVs and displays than DisplayPort will ever be.

It's also much thinner than Ethernet. If they do add back some ports, they'll largely be the ones the rMBP had, i.e. USB-A, HDMI, SD.

 

[chucker23n1]

the HP ZBook 15, which IDC reports is the world's no. 1 selling mobile workstation.

Which is probably as specious a statistics as it gets. What constitutes a mobile workstation? Do they only count Xeon CPUs? I imagine the MacBook Pro easily sells ten times as many units.

(I can find tons of sources of HP resellers bragging about this, but none that actually shows me the original IDC report. I cannot find any information on what, exactly, IDC considers a "workstation".)

[Pretty much all of these mobile workstations also have HDMI, but the fact that it's not on the Mac Pro makes its potential presence on the new MBP seem less likely.]

I think HDMI makes more sense on a MacBook Pro than a Mac Pro, simply because you will frequently find yourself connecting a MacBook Pro to a non-desk display, such as a projector or TV at a customer's and/or in a meeting room, making for a particularly embarrassing situation when you find yourself not having the right adapter/cable. A Mac Pro will almost exclusively be connected to desk displays, which are often HDMI but for which setting up the adapter/cable once isn't as big a hassle.

*I was also thinking that port might be too tall for an Apple laptop; HP's ZBook 15 is 0.73" thick, and that leaves the bottom of the port nearly flush with the bottom of the case, precluding Apple from bordering it on the bottom with a smooth curve. [The port itself is 8.30 mm = 0.37" tall.]

Yes. I see no way Apple will go back two(!) designs in thickness in order to make room for an Ethernet port.

I've seen laptops where Ethernet is hacked in through a trap door or similar, but the mechanics of that are awkward and prone to failure.

The one thing that gives me pause is that even the Mac mini has a 10 GigE option now, but as long as they can put it in a nicer chassis than this (that shouldn't be too hard) and make it half the price (that might be), it's fine.

 

[theorist9]

Which is probably as specious a statistics as it gets. What constitutes a mobile workstation? Do they only count Xeon CPUs? I imagine the MacBook Pro easily sells ten times as many units.

(I can find tons of sources of HP resellers bragging about this, but none that actually shows me the original IDC report. I cannot find any information on what, exactly, IDC considers a "workstation".)

It's not necessarily a specious statistic, just one that needs clarification.

The source is IDC Quarterly Workstation Tracker, 2017Q4. Unfortunately, like you, I can't find how they define mobile workstations either. [I don't have access to the report itself.] But it's not nearly as restrictive as Xeons only, since a recent IDC workstation buyers guide (https://www.cbronline.com/wp-conten...8-Workstations-InfoBrief-March-2019-Final.pdf) allows that small-form-factor mobile workstations can be quad-core powered (i.e., Core i5). More specifically, the big three mobile workstation lines are HP ZBook + Dell Precision Laptop + Lenovo ThinkPad P. And those include machines that have Core i5 processors. So I think it's more about product line than capability, where the one functional distinguishing characteristic seems to be ISV certification, which means that they are certified to work with graphics-intensive business applications. Though the above lines do include entry-level laptops that only feature Intel integrated graphics--no discrete graphics card; I don't know if these are counted or not.

Note also that we're focusing here on a minor, parenthetical point from the first paragraph of my last post, rather than its key big-picture message: that, if you want to know what ports pros who purchase high-end laptops want, look for commonalities in the high-end offerings of vendors who serve that market.

I think HDMI makes more sense on a MacBook Pro than a Mac Pro, simply because you will frequently find yourself connecting a MacBook Pro to a non-desk display, such as a projector or TV at a customer's and/or in a meeting room, making for a particularly embarrassing situation when you find yourself not having the right adapter/cable. A Mac Pro will almost exclusively be connected to desk displays, which are often HDMI but for which setting up the adapter/cable once isn't as big a hassle.

That's a good point about mobile vs stationary use when it comes to HDMI. Indeed, I've made the point myself that HDMI is valuable if you have to give lectures in which you connect your laptop to a typical projector. And it's not just about having the right connector. It's that you're less likely to encounter problems if you can go HDMI->HDMI rather than TB->HDMI. A projector where I lecture works OK with the former, but gives me intermittent snow with the latter. [Having said that, I'll acknowledge that HDMI is a sub-par system, intermittently losing connection. TB seems to be much more robust for video. Perhaps that's part of why Apple has moved away from HDMI.]

 

[ntlman]

Jesus, every freaking thread no matter what the title is nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports, keyboard and ports. Let's turn the whole damn site into nothing but complaints about the keyboard and ports. Hell why not complain about the lack of headphone jack that was removed three years ago in the thread about the upcoming 16" MBP because why not....

Hi there. My OP was a response to the announced specs for the upcoming 16" MBP. Someone responded to my post several times pointing out that (1) Apple is a forward looking company and that's why they got rid of useless ports like... MagSafe, and (2) Thunderbolt 3 is the future of all connections. I pointed out that touting a USB-C cable for charging completely ignores why MagSafe even exists in the first place (not to mention: USB-C is an obvious choice for your MB, but for the flagship devices: USB-A is perfectly fine? And I need to buy a dongle to connect the flagship phone to the flagship pro laptop? Oooo-k). Then they resorted to making misinformed statements to defend other similar choices Apple has made ("It's because Lightning cables have better audio quality than analog cables" ).

We're on a forum for a hardware/software platform that has never served more than 10% of the market for the entire 40 years of existence. And we're expressing discomfort with issues that affect complex machines that cost at least $1000 and are the main tools for work or hobbies. This is a site for a dedicated niche audience. Any other niche company that saw their dedicated user base uniformly complaining about the same issues for years would realize they have a simmering problem that isn't going to be solved by a tv show starring 1995's It Girl Jennifer Aniston.