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16" Macbook Pro M1 Pro Ghosting

Sanpete said:
There's no reason to think different manufacturers for Apple screens would be using different specs. There was a lot of talk about that for the 15" screens, which when tracked by lot number, etc, amounted to nothing.

Yes, it's already an expensive device. Including a screen with the good qualities of this one, plus a faster response time, would make it even more expensive. If enough people cared enough to pay the extra, Apple would do it that way. As with the old 17", which is my favorite, they don't because there's not enough demand for that feature at that price.
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They do. I had a 15 inch with an LG screen. My partner had one with a Samsung (same model). Mine had image retention and ghosting and hers was great. I took mine back to the Apple store and a helpful member of staff found one in the storeroom with a different batch number to mine (after another one had the same problem). We turned it on and the screen was perfect. Ran the terminal command to find the identifier and it was Samsung.

Apparently the last gen 16 inch had different screen revisions too but I have no first hand experience with comparisons there. Mine was the first revision and the response rate is poor.
 
Ibara said:
They do. I had a 15 inch with an LG screen. My partner had one with a Samsung (same model). Mine had image retention and ghosting and hers was great. I took mine back to the Apple store and a helpful member of staff found one in the storeroom with a different batch number to mine (after another one had the same problem). We turned it on and the screen was perfect. Ran the terminal command to find the identifier and it was Samsung.
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That worked out well! Your experience doesn't match what was reported by many others, though. There was a very long thread with reports about it.
 
Sanpete said:
That worked out well! Your experience doesn't match what was reported by many others, though. There was a very long thread with reports about it.
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This is going back some years. It was the mid 2015 model I believe.

Before that, I had a similar issue with the black Macbook model. The screen had terrible colour banding (gradients were not smooth for example). When I went to the Apple Store, none of the demo models had the problem and the staff agreed. They replaced the machine but I checked it before leaving and the same issue was apparent. After getting another two out (which had the same problem), they finally bought one out that was ok.

At the time, I wasn't aware that you could check the panel type via terminal but I would wage that the issues were also down to different panels in the machines.

When Apple products work, they are great and I have used them for many years. But on reflection, I've had screen issues with so many of the devices I've bought from them, it is staggering to be honest.
 
Example of the smearing / high response time on the 16" M1 Pro. I'll have to go to the apple store to see if its happening on their demo model.

 
ahrian said:
This is mine without slow mo
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Both examples look similar to last year's 16 inch. Like they have stuck an updated backlighting behind the same panel (which they haven't obviously since there is promotion, but it looks like that the panel LCD tech is about the same).

I agree it's bizarre to see this quality on a $3k+ machine, but again, I'm not sure there are faster LCD panels available with P3 gamut and >16 inch diagonal. Maybe Apple needs to switch to OLED but OLED has its own issue like PWM flickering, and I'm not sure I want to trade some ghosting for constant eye strain.

Also, I believe that this should be reevaluated after some burn-in. My 2019 16 inch for instance ceased to bother me after a few weeks. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the panel, I don't know, but the sure thing is that the other macrumors thread about the intel 16 inch has died a year ago i.e. interest in the topic was lost. This of course until the thread was resurrected by your double post.

I'm not certain two threads are needed because this one is basically a two-years-later rehash of the other one.
 
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ahrian said:
First video is slow mo second is normal, and is in circles to make it easier to see. I do not get any sort of porfit for complaining about ghosting. And why so mad about laser eyes? You lost money in bitcoin baby boy?
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Can you check a display model at an Apple store and see if it’s a common issue or a once off affecting only your display?
 
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The pixel response times of the panel are very slow. Same thing about the Lg ips panel which is used for mini led ipad pro. For 120 hz it has to have 8.2 ms. The ipad pro has up to 50 ms. So it's smearing.

Lg has very fast (3-4 ms response times) nano ips technology, why did apple order a slow very old lcd version with pwm? The employees are not very competent.
 
ASX said:
The pixel response times of the panel are very slow. Same thing about the Lg ips panel which is used for mini led ipad pro. For 120 hz it has to have 8.2 ms. The ipad pro has up to 50 ms. So it's smearing.

Lg has very fast (3-4 ms response times) nano ips technology, why did apple order a slow very old lcd version with pwm? The employees are not very competent.
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I think it’s likely because they made an assumption that perhaps over 90% of their customers primarily read text that’s not moving. As a result, they focused on how text looks that’s not moving.

For those that read streaming text, like stock tickers or live update log files, they probably already have a much larger external monitor specifically for this kind of dashboard.
 
just to recap here, most everyone here is okay with the ghosting? has everyone gotten used to it? or has anyone been able to compare it to other M1 Pro/Max MBP models to see if its a panel lottery issue?
 
aohus said:
just to recap here, most everyone here is okay with the ghosting? has everyone gotten used to it? or has anyone been able to compare it to other M1 Pro/Max MBP models to see if its a panel lottery issue?
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I’m okay with it for the most part. Somewhat disappointing, but not a deal breaker. Colors are still rich, and resolution is crisp. Not okay with ProMotion being broken.
 
Ok so the notebookcheck figures are in for the 14 inch (also reported in the other thread). Black to black 40ms, grey to grey 58ms. Slightly worse than those of the 2019 intel 16 inch. Given that these tend to be slower with larger panels, I expect the 16 inch response times to be even a bit slower.

Again, some will notice it, some won't, but this sure is very disappointing.
 
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jay-A said:
Ok so the notebookcheck figures are in for the 14 inch (also reported in the other thread). Black to black 40ms, grey to grey 58ms. Slightly worse than those of the 2019 intel 16 inch. Given that these tend to be slower with larger panels, I expect the 16 inch response times to be even a bit slower.

Again, some will notice it, some won't, but this sure is very disappointing.
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That's very disappointing indeed
 
they did state they wonder if 120Hz makes it less noticeable. My 14" doesn't look worse than my M1 Air, which notebookcheck measured at 31ms.
 
www.notebookcheck.com

Apple MacBook Pro 14 2021 M1 Pro Laptop im Test: Wie viel "Pro" steckt im Basismodell?

Notebookcheck testet das brandneue Apple MacBook Pro 14 mit dem M1-Pro-Prozessor, 16 GB RAM, Liquid Retina XDR-Display mit 120 Hz und verbesserten Lautsprechern.
www.notebookcheck.com www.notebookcheck.com

Here the test. It's slower than ipad pro 12.9" 2021. The second problem is the stuttering when scrolling. I really hate it, when using a 2750 Euro notebook. But don't tell it Apple fans, they don't care about response times, stuttering, ghosting, smearing ... . It's all about the look of a static image.
 
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Obviously Apple does not include this metric in their assessment of quality. But they will have to at some point because it's getting laughable in comparison to some OLED PCs with their instant response times, or even some mini-led offerings that are starting to appear. If they talk the talk about being the best, at some point they should walk the walk.
 
The G9 Neo is the only mini led display with fast response time which has been released yet. But also the PG32UQX which is very slow, is faster than this macbook pro displays.
 
There's also the MSI creator 17 from last year, which is fast but only ~80% DCI-P3.
 
And it has only 60 hz. AUO has released 17 inch 3840 x 2160 120 hz 1000 nits 512 dimming zone mini led panel. It will be used for Acer Helios 500 and MSI notebooks.

The price is very high:


Predator Helios | Predator | Acer Österreich

Bigger, stronger and with plenty of power to spare. Tackle every game with Helios at your back.
www.acer.com www.acer.com

But a M1 max is also not cheap :D and not upgradeable.
 
ASX said:
It's all about the look of a static image.
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Not just Apple fans, pretty much everyone. I’m sure there are a few people that have the screen scrolling as they read, but the vast majority of folks scroll, stop, read, scroll further, stop, read. Same with images, they’ll flip through a lot of images, but they will stop before evaluating the colors and tones of an image. Doesn’t matter if they’re on Android, Windows, Linux, etc.

It would be like going to the library and expecting to see everyone waving their books around in front of their face while reading instead of holding it in one position. :)

Library Patron: “Do you have any other books on this topic? This one is far to difficult to read.”
Librarian GRABS book, holds it motionless on desk.
Library Patron: “HOW DID YOU DO THAT? Wow, did you learn this in librarian school?”
 
Unregistered 4U said:
Not just Apple fans, pretty much everyone. I’m sure there are a few people that have the screen scrolling as they read, but the vast majority of folks scroll, stop, read, scroll further, stop, read. Same with images, they’ll flip through a lot of images, but they will stop before evaluating the colors and tones of an image. Doesn’t matter if they’re on Android, Windows, Linux, etc.

It would be like going to the library and expecting to see everyone waving their books around in front of their face while reading instead of holding it in one position. :)

Library Patron: “Do you have any other books on this topic? This one is far to difficult to read.”
Librarian GRABS book, holds it motionless on desk.
Library Patron: “HOW DID YOU DO THAT? Wow, did you learn this in librarian school?”
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It's not just that. I have two macbook pros, a late 2013 model with ghosting that I never noticed (response time ~20ms) and the 2019 16 inch with significant ghosting (response time ~ 50ms).

The display that has ghosting is just generally uncomfortable, because the things that move do not move in a natural fashion and the brain needs to compensate for that.

Response times are actually crucial to the experience. Also, as another poster said above, it is kind of awkward to advertise 120Hz refresh rate if the display is only good for 1/50ms=20 Hz ghosting-free refresh. 120 Hz is going to help somehow but for the most part it's going to be a waste of refresh cycles. Also, whether the response time is 20ms or 50ms makes a hell of a difference.
 
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