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17" Unibody MacBook Pro with Non-Removable Extended-Life Battery
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Playing Devil's advocate here, but if its exactly like the 13" and 15" models, why wasn't it released back in October?
Its also significantly heavier. Different tools for different uses.
Agree completely 100% here.
It's better that apple try and appeal to "the norm" rather than try to please everyone. By sealing in the battery apple will piss off the group of people who like changing their batteries. As others have said this is a small percentage of people. However , by sealing in the battery apple can advertise features which would appeal to the norm ( while pissing off a select group): in this case sealing in the battery will probably impove aesthetics and add precious battery life. It's too bad apple can't please everyone. They can try but won't ever succeed. Whether of was dropping FireWire, not including Blu ray, whatever , each rev of each new apple product trades one feature for
Another. For the norm these will be welcomed changes but there's bound to be some angry people, particularly on macrumors since this place is full of apple fans like myself.
Another. For the norm these will be welcomed changes but there's bound to be some angry people, particularly on macrumors since this place is full of apple fans like myself.
I'd be quite surprised if this rumour is true.
I can't see that you'd fit a much larger battery in by having it non removable, and if it is soldered in and moulded round the case (pointless in such large 17" machine?) then I would guess it will be horrendously expensive and time consuming to replace.
I can't see that you'd fit a much larger battery in by having it non removable, and if it is soldered in and moulded round the case (pointless in such large 17" machine?) then I would guess it will be horrendously expensive and time consuming to replace.
if they just kept the logic board from the 15" macbook and moved it all the way to the left that would give them plenty of room to put in a removable battery that filled a great portion of the right side of the case. I think that it would be a crime for apple to get rid of the removable battery (maybe even worse than dumping the super drive)!
Things are getting more and more interesting...
9 to 5 mac makes a hypothesis that this notebook will use Silver-Zinc batteries. If so, then maybe this rumor isn't all bad news.
Maybe at MWSF, Apple might say, "...all our notebooks by the end of this year." Reminds me of the 133 MHz speed bump speculation... Although I'd like both those improvements to go on the rest of the MacBook Pro and MacBook lines, realistically though, I'm expecting both the 2.67/2.93 GHz CPUs and the new battery stuff to be only on the 17" MacBook Pro (at least in January) (the above quote says "a laptop" anyway).
And I'm not sure how the aluminum MacBook may go down from $1299 to $999. Maybe if it had 1 GB RAM and a 120 GB HDD...
But if it happens, that'll be great.
9 to 5 mac makes a hypothesis that this notebook will use Silver-Zinc batteries. If so, then maybe this rumor isn't all bad news.
ZPower said:
Either they want this stuff only on the 17", or they just decided to put it in their notebooks.
Maybe at MWSF, Apple might say, "...all our notebooks by the end of this year." Reminds me of the 133 MHz speed bump speculation... Although I'd like both those improvements to go on the rest of the MacBook Pro and MacBook lines, realistically though, I'm expecting both the 2.67/2.93 GHz CPUs and the new battery stuff to be only on the 17" MacBook Pro (at least in January) (the above quote says "a laptop" anyway).
And I'm not sure how the aluminum MacBook may go down from $1299 to $999. Maybe if it had 1 GB RAM and a 120 GB HDD...
But if it happens, that'll be great.Logic board already is all the way on the left on the 15"
But yeah, there will be plenty space in there for extras.
Ignoring the cooling (which I think is pretty poor on all their products but the pro tower), if they wanted to put a quad core in, all they have to do is put a quad core in?
What's the 'etc'? There's tonnes of room for modular drive bays etc, there's nothing that's cutting edge.
I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that the issue might be that the new battery is large enough that a spare would not meet the new TSA rules for LIon batteries in luggage.
Also, what about the possibility that the "lasts twice as long" rumor is misinterpreted and means years not hours.
Also, what about the possibility that the "lasts twice as long" rumor is misinterpreted and means years not hours.
If it's the first battery of its kind for the mobile electronics market, then that qualifies as bad news. I see a potential product recall in the wind.
i'd consider it a benefit if it last 8+ hours and shaves off at least a pound
it's not often that i use my laptop where an electrical outlet is not available. when i do travel with my laptop, i'm usually close to a WIFI, and where there is WIFI, there will be at least one electrical outlet close by.
so, if a fixed battery means shaving off at least 1 pound off its total weight, lasts and runs much, much longer (between 7 and 8 hours) then the user-replaceable battery (between 3 and 4 hours), then i'd consider this new configuration a benefit.
besides, having a non-user-replaceable battery is one way of addressing the issue of making sure that dead batteries will be properly disposed. i doubt most users would send a dead battery back to the manufacture for proper disposal. so this appeals to the likes of greenpeace and the green movement. companies like apple, is damned if they do (such as, end users complaining about the inconvenience), and damned if they don't (such as, the green movement hounding them with boycotts and bad publicity, etc).
it's not often that i use my laptop where an electrical outlet is not available. when i do travel with my laptop, i'm usually close to a WIFI, and where there is WIFI, there will be at least one electrical outlet close by.
so, if a fixed battery means shaving off at least 1 pound off its total weight, lasts and runs much, much longer (between 7 and 8 hours) then the user-replaceable battery (between 3 and 4 hours), then i'd consider this new configuration a benefit.
besides, having a non-user-replaceable battery is one way of addressing the issue of making sure that dead batteries will be properly disposed. i doubt most users would send a dead battery back to the manufacture for proper disposal. so this appeals to the likes of greenpeace and the green movement. companies like apple, is damned if they do (such as, end users complaining about the inconvenience), and damned if they don't (such as, the green movement hounding them with boycotts and bad publicity, etc).
How will making the battery built in increase battery life?
it would let apple get rid of the mechanism needed for a removable batter therefore providing more space!
interesting. i wonder how long the battery will be? 7-8 hours maybe? if it's that long, or longer, i can deal with not being able to remove it. if it's less than that, then i think it's a bad move by apple. we'll see.
I would think that Apple would want to make the MacBook Air a bit thinner and lighter. Not to say the battery life still wouldn't increase.
The battery starts to degrade after 5 years.
True, but I wonder why the last 17" MacBook Pro did not have 2x the battery life of the 15". There's probably something else involved.
Interesting theory. That would mean even more battery life for the 17".
"ZPower says their batteries are much safer than Lithium" and "Silver-Zinc isn't a new, untested technology either. It has been used by NASA and Aircraft industries for years. It was the power source in all of the Apollo spacecraft: the Saturn launch vehicles, command module re-entry batteries, the lunar module and the lunar rover."
So, if that's true, I don't think we'll need a product recall (hopefully)
How will making the battery built in increase battery life?
There are new ways of "molding" batteries to make better use of any extra space in the case without having to take into account the possibility to remove the battery. It can be of almost any shape and doesn't have to have the typical rectangular shape most laptop batteries have. More space = larger battery =longer battery life.
But to expect people to pay 3000 dollars for a laptop not having features expected of even low end laptops can only be done by Apple.
Regarding adding extra batteries, one of my old Toshiba laptops from the early 90s (Pentium 233) had a drive bay that allowed to insert a CDROM or a harddisk or an extra battery. So the idea isn't new. As an option was an external expansion where the CDROM drive could be mounted if the extra battery option was used and one needed CDROM access at the same time.
It better have significantly better battery life if this is true, otherwise it's a really bad move. If it's just a 25% improvement that will be stupid. Unless it's just a BTO option in which case it's not so terrible a move.
They're doing the right thing.
Apple knows that longer battery life is very important to people, much more so than an easy ability to "swap out a second battery" which very, very, few people do. I would rather a longer battery life if it means having to pull out a screw driver every 2 to 3 years to replace the battery. That 17" is for pros that need the performance Apple is providing. That design will have to accommodate 4 cores. In any case, much more performance with more RAM, faster processing, more graphics, etc. A short battery life would be unforgivable. Apple is only doing this because it's necessary given the performance their professional customers demand.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/apple_to_pioneer_use_of_silver_zinc_battery_technology===
" I've had to replace my MacBook Pro Battery after two years of use because the charge would only last a few minutes. Luckily, Silver-Zinc only starts to degrade in charge only after five years of use. Nice!"
They also charge faster - at least in the area that matters most:
A laptop computer battery using ZPower cells can charge in 5 hours. The ZPower battery charges at a constant rate throughout the complete charge cycle. In contrast, lithium-ion batteries decelerate to a slower rate towards the last 20-30% of a charge cycle. As a result, ZPower batteries charge faster than lithium-ion batteries from 70% to 100% --which is where most consumers focus their charging activity.
ZPower also fits into Apple's Green initiatives:
* ZPower was awarded the AlwaysOn GoingGreen 100 Award in 2007 for energy storage. The company was honored because 95% of the key elements in ZPower batteries can be recycled and reused. ZPower is also taking a leading role in providing financial incentives to consumers who recycle.
* The primary materials of ZPower batteries (i.e. silver and zinc) are fully recyclable. That means that the materials derived from recycling process are of the same quality as the materials that went into the initial creation of the battery. This reduces the need to mine for new materials and minimizes the removal of silver and zinc from the earth’s crust.
* In contrast, the primary elements of traditional lithium-ion batteries are downcycled and cannot be reused. The downcycling process reduces the original battery into raw materials of lower quality which can’t be reused for battery production. Additional lithium must be obtained before another battery can be produced.
* The silver recycling process already exists. Refiners perfected the processes over centuries for jewelry, tableware, photographic film, and electronics. Additionally, silver obtained from scrap makes up over 30% of the silver that is needed each year to satisfy world demand.
* ZPower is the first rechargeable battery company in the portable electronic segment to offer financial incentives to consumers who recycle. ZPower will make it easy for consumers to return their used batteries to ZPower in exchange for a credit towards the purchase of a new silver-zinc battery. This innovative approach to battery recycling for mobile electronics will be introduced in 2009 when ZPower batteries are launched with a leading notebook computer manufacturer.
Apple knows that longer battery life is very important to people, much more so than an easy ability to "swap out a second battery" which very, very, few people do. I would rather a longer battery life if it means having to pull out a screw driver every 2 to 3 years to replace the battery. That 17" is for pros that need the performance Apple is providing. That design will have to accommodate 4 cores. In any case, much more performance with more RAM, faster processing, more graphics, etc. A short battery life would be unforgivable. Apple is only doing this because it's necessary given the performance their professional customers demand.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/apple_to_pioneer_use_of_silver_zinc_battery_technology===
" I've had to replace my MacBook Pro Battery after two years of use because the charge would only last a few minutes. Luckily, Silver-Zinc only starts to degrade in charge only after five years of use. Nice!"
They also charge faster - at least in the area that matters most:
A laptop computer battery using ZPower cells can charge in 5 hours. The ZPower battery charges at a constant rate throughout the complete charge cycle. In contrast, lithium-ion batteries decelerate to a slower rate towards the last 20-30% of a charge cycle. As a result, ZPower batteries charge faster than lithium-ion batteries from 70% to 100% --which is where most consumers focus their charging activity.
ZPower also fits into Apple's Green initiatives:
* ZPower was awarded the AlwaysOn GoingGreen 100 Award in 2007 for energy storage. The company was honored because 95% of the key elements in ZPower batteries can be recycled and reused. ZPower is also taking a leading role in providing financial incentives to consumers who recycle.
* The primary materials of ZPower batteries (i.e. silver and zinc) are fully recyclable. That means that the materials derived from recycling process are of the same quality as the materials that went into the initial creation of the battery. This reduces the need to mine for new materials and minimizes the removal of silver and zinc from the earth’s crust.
* In contrast, the primary elements of traditional lithium-ion batteries are downcycled and cannot be reused. The downcycling process reduces the original battery into raw materials of lower quality which can’t be reused for battery production. Additional lithium must be obtained before another battery can be produced.
* The silver recycling process already exists. Refiners perfected the processes over centuries for jewelry, tableware, photographic film, and electronics. Additionally, silver obtained from scrap makes up over 30% of the silver that is needed each year to satisfy world demand.
* ZPower is the first rechargeable battery company in the portable electronic segment to offer financial incentives to consumers who recycle. ZPower will make it easy for consumers to return their used batteries to ZPower in exchange for a credit towards the purchase of a new silver-zinc battery. This innovative approach to battery recycling for mobile electronics will be introduced in 2009 when ZPower batteries are launched with a leading notebook computer manufacturer.
Wouldn't it be too dangerous to use silver zinc batteries?
Source wikipedia:
Silver oxide batteries become hazardous when they begin to leak which generally takes a period of five years (which is their normal life) from the time they are put into use. Until recently, all silver oxide batteries contained mercury (around 0.2%). The mercury is incorporated into the zinc anode to inhibit corrosion in the alkaline environment. Sony started producing the first silver oxide batteries without added mercury in 2004. [6] Most jewelers and watch makers leave these batteries in an open container in their shop, which could lead to health problems for the jewelers. If they do not retain them, they usually discard them in the trash which causes many environmental problems. Once the battery is spent (dead) it needs to be properly handled and recycled by an authorized recycler according to the EPA's Sector of Waste Wise, a program that sponsors correct ways to recycle silver oxide batteries.
There's a difference between a cost no object bespoke product with extensive testing and probable triple-redundancy for aerospace uses and a margin-trimmed product for consumer electronics. I remain unconvinced.
I've been reading these forums and people seem to have awful batteries on their Macs! Mine's 25 months old (MacBook C2D '06) and still has 95% capacity according to CoconutBattery.
On topic, the battery slot on the laptops is how the HDD/SSD and RAM are upgraded. Do you think they'd remove the option of upgrading your HDD and RAM by yourself too in making an integrated battery?
On topic, the battery slot on the laptops is how the HDD/SSD and RAM are upgraded. Do you think they'd remove the option of upgrading your HDD and RAM by yourself too in making an integrated battery?
If the battery is still removable, even if you have to break the machine apart to access, surely you've lost the (tiny?) battery volume increase anyway?
Wouldn't making the battery part of the external case like many other manufacturers do waste even less space while still remaining removable?