17" Unibody MacBook Pro with Non-Removable Extended-Life Battery

[01jamcon]

This is not a bad thing.

All the people commenting here have been saying, "Apple are mad to be doing this because its a PRO machine", yet how many people here are saying this from a Pro-viewpoint. Think about it, how many people travel regularly with a 17" machine? Very few; it's unpractical to a certain degree. Most users buy these large notebooks so they can move freely in an office space or home(which has power outlets). Most pro users tend to go for 15 inch for the portability.

Windows counterparts? Which PC notebook has something other than an Intel GMA for a graphics card? Not many. Which has DDR3 memory? Not many. Which PC has a glass screen with a hecka good quality panel? Only HP has the glass thus far. Macs are in fact, cheaper than Windows. That is pure fact. Unless you buy stuff expensive laptops but a cheaper price on eBay.

No Windows PC can last 5 years. I've tried. I've failed. And I know my way through computers, custom and PC vendors. Don't limit yourself to just lithium ions. The current battery will last 2 years only if you assumed it's lithium ion. There are new technologies such as the SCIB or super charge ion battery, and the silver-zinc variety. The SCIB will last 6000 cycles before degrading. If you use 2 cycles a day, that is nearly 8+ years before it craps out.

You sir have been drinking the Kool-aid like a pro.

 

[PeterQC]

Windows counterparts? Which PC notebook has something other than an Intel GMA for a graphics card?

Many. Pretty much only the low end use it. You can also BTO from the manufacturers to have a something better. Netbooks does have Intel GMA throuth. Where the plastic Macbook, which was priced a lot more then their counterparts had Intel GMA until now.

Which has DDR3 memory?

DDR3 don't see many advantage over DDR2, ones that you can see. It's also the new generation of ram, that was made available to Apple by nVidia with their notebook platform. This platform isn't exclusive to Apple, and there's other PC manufacturers that currently use it.

Which PC has a glass screen with a hecka good quality panel? Only HP has the glass thus far.

Apple isn't the only one who use LED screens. And good quality? The ones on the current MacBooks are TERRIBLE!

Macs are in fact, cheaper than Windows. That is pure fact.

They're not, sorry to burst your bubble. Macbooks are comparable, few hundreds of difference, the Pros are overpriced.

I don't want to debate. I'm feeling like a good Apple Fanboy, but I'm not blind. If you want to continue onto this, MP please.

 

[ionoblah]

This is awesome..

Think about it this way.. when your battery starts to explode (5 in 3 years for me) they'll have to just give you a whole new computer.. and with their constant updating, you'll get free upgrades

I love it.

 

[01jamcon]

This is awesome..
when your battery starts to explode (5 in 3 years for me)

Dude, you need to stop using your laptop batteries to start camp fires or whatever you're doing with them. Honestly, FIVE have exploded? Either you are the unluckiest guy ever, or the luckiest guy for not having your house burned down.

 

[gcmexico]

That statement by Henry Ford is so arrogant. I can't believe you actually have bought into it.

Maybe, just maybe, us customers know what we want better than Apple.

*
WRONG...Apple has been proving that for a while now...just look at how they changed the MP3 market, and cell phone market. I don't recall any customers screaming I want a beautiful portable mp3 player, that I can sync my music to, most were satisfied with cd players and useless mp3 players that were out, or customers screaming I want a cell phone with no buttons, just touch screen, again most were just satisfied with the crappy cell phones that were in the market...and now look at how all the competition is trying to make ipods and iphone killers...Apple makes what they believe customers should want, and customers AGREE

 

[wizard]

New technology would be the reason.

Except that there are reasons why the iPhone, iPods, and Macbook Air have integrated batteries.

Those reasons aren't significantly different than might be used on the 17 inch model.

There's no REASON to do this on their largest laptop. I don't believe it simply because I see no point.

There is good reason to get rid of lithium tech batteries. There are two paths Apple could take here. One would be fuel cell technology, which would mean refilling you laptop instead of recharging.

The other more interesting possibility is that Apple is going to transition to completely new battery tech. There are a number of possibilities here from Zinc air to carbon nano technology. The interesting thing here is that one of the bleeding edge battery companies announced a few months ago that they were ramping manufacturing technology for a new battery to ship in a laptop this year. The manufacture was described as a major manufacture. I will have to see if I can dig up the press release.

In any event if Lithium tech is out the door the battery may have unique characteristics that make internal installation acceptable. It would be interesting to know how they validated the battery.

If this true, it is good to hear that Apple is doing something to address the industries issues with Lithium batteries. Even after a couple of years now they haven't demonstrated reliabilty or safety.

As much as people complain about the iPhone's battery, at least there's a reason they did it.

Frankly I'm not convinced the move was that smart on Apples part. Mostly because there are days that the battery simply doesn't last long enough. That would be the biggest possible short coming of a built in battery. They really need more than 8 hours of normal life, better would be 12 hours.

There's nothing like that here.

If the battery is Lithium technology from a Chinese source we have problems! If it is one of the alternative technologies then it might actually make sense.

I'm not going to pass judgement until we know what is actually in the machine. It could be a break through machine.


Dave

 

[icoffee]

Don't be silly, of course the battery will be removable, i.e. at least by a Mac Genius. Are we going to finally see wireless charging debut? If the 9to5 rumor is true, I think so.

 

[aswitcher]

Don't be silly, of course the battery will be removable, i.e. at least by a Mac Genius. Are we going to finally see wireless charging debut? If the 9to5 rumor is true, I think so.

Ditto. The Air set the precedent. Non-removable battery saves weight, reduces structural weaknesses and moving parts.

 

[Dreamail]

Options are always a good thing, and I can understand why people want to have the option of replacing the battery themselves.

However, there's two reasons I can see why Apple wants to switch to internal, non-user-replaceable batteries:

a) New battery shape
My guess would be they use the same battery tech as in current iPhones or iPods. Those are super-flat batteries that can be produced in any shape.
Imagine such a battery e.g. L-shaped sitting below most of the motherboard.
It would be very impractical to house this battery in an extra, L-shaped compartment that's user swappable. It would add at least a few millimeter of overall thickness. And as the 17" model was always the thinnest, I'm certain Apple is going for even "more thin" this time.

b) Environment
How many people who purchase a replacement battery (e.g. over the Internet) actually recycle the old battery? And how many just throw the old one in the bin? I wouldn't be surprised if the latter were quite a few people.
If you force consumers to have a battery replaced by an authorized service technician you can also ensure that said technician returns the old battery back to Apple for recycling.
It is the safer option - from an environmental point of view.

 

[wizard]

Going out on a limb here but the battery is likely made by ZPower.

That would be www.zpowerbattery.com

If I'm right all you guys can chip in for a new 17inch MBP to be sent my way.

As to the phrase built in that could mean a lot of things. If Apple was smart they would have one lower access panel that would allow a tech to get to the battery, disk drive and RAM quickly. Built in doesn't have to mean unservicable.

Dave

 

[joeshell383]

The only way this makes sense would be if Apple has come up with some oddly shaped internal battery that takes up a lot of room and doesn't lend itself to being removable.

Otherwise, assuming the 17" MBP will be taking the same design cues as the 13 and 15" models, it seems silly to not design the battery (and user replaceable hard drive) using the same basic method.

One would have to ask though, if Apple did come up with this, and thought it was superior to a removable battery, why limit this idea to the 17" models? Why wouldn't they have used it with the redesigned 13 and 15" models too?

Doesn't seem quite right.

If the 17" model is the same, why didn't Apple release it with other models?

 

[wizard]

An unbelievable statement.

That statement by Henry Ford is so arrogant. I can't believe you actually have bought into it.

I can't believe you have exposed yourself here with this rant. Fords statement sums up exactly why innovation is so difficult. It is extremely difficult to get people to think beyond what they currently know. If you have ever been put into a position of transitioning people to new technology you would realize how stupid your statement is. Sometimes you literally have to skip a generation.

Maybe, just maybe, us customers know what we want better than Apple.

Well the above might have some value after the new MBP is released but right now nobody knows the scope of the change. Like the issue Ford had, many people are commenting in this thread based on their knowledge of Lithium battery technologies. People need to realize there are alternatives to the Lithium horse.


Dave

 

[Dreamail]

Interesting find wizard!

ZPower released a press statement on October 7th that a major notebook manufacturer is going to use its tech, perhaps anticipating the Apple laptop announcement. Since Apple introduced new MacBooks in October 14th that could very well be it.

However that press release also stated that said manufacturer will use the battery 'next year'.
Yet perhaps it was issued as a result of Apple delaying the 17" MBP introduction? Could be that Apple had planned to introduce it along the 13" and 15" models, but had to back out last minute on the 17" model.
Since ZPower probably needed the buzz for its own investors they felt compelled to issue that statement the moment they learnt that Apple will not introduce it in October, but delay it until next year.

 

[gazfocus]

I'd be quite pleased if the white Macbook got phased out . Bring on the cheaper Alu Macbooks Whooo

 

[sflocal]

That statement by Henry Ford is so arrogant. I can't believe you actually have bought into it.

Maybe, just maybe, us customers know what we want better than Apple.

Rigght... A company (like Apple) does its best to determine what customers WILL want. Not what they want right now.

They made a killer MP3 player and the consumer decided that was the best option at the time.

They made a revolutionary phone that they hoped would redefine the industry. I didn't see any people screaming at the time that they wanted a full-featured, touch-screen, OSX handheld/phone at the time when Motorola cornered the market with their Razr phone and RIM/Palm/M$ had their Blackberry/Treo/WinCE devices. They took a chance and made something hoping that was what consumers would want.

If Apple focused strictly on what customers wanted as you imply it would most likely be an abysmal failure and Apple would be out of business.

Apple has been very good at coming up with that next product that they believe will be desirable to consumers. Of course they will not satisfy 100% of humanity. Name one product that does (except water, air & shelter).

Seems like you have a different set of standards on defining a successful business model. By all means, let's compare your bank account to that of Steve Jobs. Heck, let's compare your bank account in todays dollars to Henry Ford's balance in his 1900's dollars just to cheat a little.

Heny Ford's statement was not arrogant. It was visionary. Steve Jobs seems to have that same gift and has the track record to prove it.

Perhaps you belong in the "No one will ever need more than 640K" or "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers" group?

 

[Mackan]

I don't like the idea to become more and more dependent and bound to the product inventor - in this case Apple, to be able to do changes to the machine I've bought. I think it's a dangerous path for the consumer. Freedom and options, that's what products automatically should come with.

Have to send in the notebook every year to get the battery replaced? No, that's a dependency I clearly want to live without.

9to5 also expects that the 13" plastic MacBook will be phased out which may bring the low-end aluminum model closer to $1000.

Royal screwing with the early buyers again, in that case.

 

[alphaod]

That just… sucks.

 

[nick9191]

Bad idea that the battery can't be removed.
Good idea that it lasts a long time (lets hope 10 hours).

I doubt it will become non removable, the European Union are already spanking Apple over the iPods and the Macbook Air.

 

[wizard]

Or Apple and ZPower need ramp time, most likely for a production line.

Interesting find wizard!

ZPower released a press statement on October 7th that a major notebook manufacturer is going to use its tech, perhaps anticipating the Apple laptop announcement. Since Apple introduced new MacBooks in October 14th that could very well be it.

However that press release also stated that said manufacturer will use the battery 'next year'.
Yet perhaps it was issued as a result of Apple delaying the 17" MBP introduction? Could be that Apple had planned to introduce it along the 13" and 15" models, but had to back out last minute on the 17" model.

I take it to mean that the 17" machine wasn't ready but contracts where in place.

Since ZPower probably needed the buzz for its own investors they felt compelled to issue that statement the moment they learnt that Apple will not introduce it in October, but delay it until next year.

Well buzz is important but think about it, at that point they had a contract. I'm not convinced that the big MBP was actually delayed, rather they made a decision to use this machine as a platform to introduce new tech. The question is, is it just battery tech or more interesting tech.


Dave

 

[sflocal]

I don't like the idea to become more and more dependent and bound to the product inventor - in this case Apple, to be able to do changes to the machine I've bought. I think it's a dangerous path for the consumer. Freedom and options, that's what products automatically should come with.

Have to send in the notebook every year to get the battery replaced? No, that's a dependency I clearly want to live without.

How is it that you have to replace your batteries in a notebook every year when most notebooks require at least 2+ years just to get the batteries to partially fade? Are you somehow powering a hairdryer through a USB port to achieve that replacement rate?

Use real metrics instead of coming up with a totally fabricated number. Most people don't purchase replacement/additional batteries for their laptops and by the time their batteries do die, they would prefer to buy a new model instead. Perhaps this would be a good way for the batteries to be reclaimed/recycled instead of being thrown in the trash.

 

[MattInOz]

Those reasons aren't significantly different than might be used on the 17 inch model.

There is good reason to get rid of lithium tech batteries. There are two paths Apple could take here. One would be fuel cell technology, which would mean refilling you laptop instead of recharging.

The other more interesting possibility is that Apple is going to transition to completely new battery tech. There are a number of possibilities here from Zinc air to carbon nano technology. The interesting thing here is that one of the bleeding edge battery companies announced a few months ago that they were ramping manufacturing technology for a new battery to ship in a laptop this year. The manufacture was described as a major manufacture. I will have to see if I can dig up the press release.

In any event if Lithium tech is out the door the battery may have unique characteristics that make internal installation acceptable. It would be interesting to know how they validated the battery.

If this true, it is good to hear that Apple is doing something to address the industries issues with Lithium batteries. Even after a couple of years now they haven't demonstrated reliabilty or safety.

Frankly I'm not convinced the move was that smart on Apples part. Mostly because there are days that the battery simply doesn't last long enough. That would be the biggest possible short coming of a built in battery. They really need more than 8 hours of normal life, better would be 12 hours.


If the battery is Lithium technology from a Chinese source we have problems! If it is one of the alternative technologies then it might actually make sense.

I'm not going to pass judgement until we know what is actually in the machine. It could be a break through machine.


Dave

New battery tech makes sense, more sense if it a thin film battery layered in to the display cover. That could be a massive plate of battery in the 17'

otherwise if it's in the base then why not have it replaceable.
If so there are other interesting things that could happen like keep the optical in the front, have room cross flow vent the mobo increase the heat dissipation of not having to get heat arround the battery.

Maybe 2 HD's maybe Quad core.

 

[OS X Dude]

The only tech unveiling I'm excited about in January is that Vaio netbook that's coming out (Vaio P?)

Would be nice if Apple did a "MacBook Nano" netbook at MacWorld... but a non-removable battery on a pro machine is crazy. I like modding my machines and upgrading them.

When I come to upgrade my 06 C2D MacBook next year (prob xmas 2010), I hope Apple won't force me to buy an Asus because they're still screwing things up. I love Apple but for christ's sake GET IT RIGHT!

 

[Porco]

If it's a non-removable, non-additional internal battery I think it's a crazy idea. As opposed to a second battery that extends the running time, which would be a great idea, (and it could probably be done simply by making the 17 inch a 15 inch but with more space inside for the extra battery).

If it's the former, I hope this rumour is untrue, or at least heavily distorted from the reality. If it's really as it sounds then it's incredibly stupid, even if it worked people would be put off by it, I think kind of like the matte screen and firewire issues, I can't see how giving those things as options (even at additional cost) would have cost Apple more money than they've lost by alienating customers.

I really think Apple should have a 'pro' or 'advanced' section of the store where you can order more customised macs. They seemed to like making a big thing out of how we could configure the Mac Pro in so many ways when that launched, so why is it so different for their portable pro machines? It seems contradictory to keep removing stuff and not giving us much extra back...

 

[yayitsezekiel]

The only tech unveiling I'm excited about in January is that Vaio netbook that's coming out (Vaio P?)

Would be nice if Apple did a "MacBook Nano" netbook at MacWorld... but a non-removable battery on a pro machine is crazy. I like modding my machines and upgrading them.

with this new technology of the smaller, non removable batteries, the idea of apple making a smaller notebook (netbook) seems rather imminent. I'm sure they will eventually make one.

 

[Jiten]

Its almost they are doing these changes just to spite us because the know that whatever they do there will always be people who will buy their products.