Lion doesn’t get security updates. I’m pretty sure office 2011 is not longer supported also. But hey, you only paid for it once.
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1Password 8 for Mac With Improved Interface, Performance, and More Now Available in Early Access
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The bold is what is known as the typical GOAL POST SHIFT. You didn't say anything about being supported. You said:
I got those. I paid for those. They still work. You didn't say anything about being supported. For my needs, they don't need to be supported, with exception to the fact that their release notes say that they are supported on the hardware I have (read: hardware requirements).
You may want to re-examine your post, let alone your stance, because both are wrong.
BL.
Cool story. If you want to use unsupported softwar, go have fun. I am not wrong, using unsupported software is not safe. But go have fun.
Working and being supported IMO one of the same. To me, if it’s not supported anymore, it’s broken.
Is “I proudly use an unsupported OS, web browser, mail client and office suite with known security holes” really the hill you want to die on?
Please explain exactly what’s unsafe about using software on an Apple ][e?
As that’s the context that started this discussion, and as you’ve yet to answer this question.
Damn right it's a cool story; I doubt you can say the same about how stable your hardware is.. or how wasteful one can be with their hardware.
If you know how to secure your hardware, let alone software, you can be safe in it. It's called MITIGATION; however, a big mistake is thinking that throwing more money at a problem is the right solution. When you don't or can't at that time for any reason, you find the proper way to mitigate any security problem. Any ISO would tell you that (oh wait; I just did).
The one thing about one's opinion: it ends at the tip of their nose.
If you've read the other threads I've been on, you would know why I am still on my MBA, outside the fact of how solid and stable it is. But hey, you are free to send me $2200 so I can be on new, supported hardware to be on a "supported" OS, with "supported" software. Now, when one is 10 years down the road with working hardware, if they are willing to simply throw it away because "it isn't supported", that says a lot more about how wasteful that person can be instead of being innovative with what they have.
But hey, that's your money which to be fleeced.
See the above regarding mitigation; you may learn something.
BL.
Yes, it is. Always best to just state the facts instead of making it sound over-dramatic. I personally have no problem with being reliant on their servers since it hasn't caused me any issues whatsoever. But I understand that people have different opinions and have no problem with that.
They HAVE explained it. For instance, someone linked this near the beginning of this thread:
Why can we not have an explicit statement about 1Password being a subscription-only service?
Hello AgileBits. I would like to congratulate the team on the release today. As anticipated and appreciated it is very much the same as the Linux app.
1password.community
You may not LIKE their explanation, but it's an explanation all the same. As the saying goes, "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time."
What is "asinine" is your entitled attitude here. They are clearly committed to 1Password memberships and apparently that's what most of their customers (including me) do, as they've stated. So you can continue to whine about it with the others who are in the minority, or just get the hell over it and realize it's just software, not a personal family member, and you can either adapt with the changes or move on to whatever you think are greener pastures.
And we're done here. Nothing more to say to you.
👋
Don't upgrade or find an alternative software. You got an incredibly amazing deal for "10-15 years or longer" and now you're whining over $3/month. Cry me a river.
👋
They HAVE explained it. For instance, someone linked this near the beginning of this thread:
Why can we not have an explicit statement about 1Password being a subscription-only service?
Hello AgileBits. I would like to congratulate the team on the release today. As anticipated and appreciated it is very much the same as the Linux app.
You may not LIKE their explanation, but it's an explanation all the same. As the saying goes, "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time."
What is "asinine" is your entitled attitude here. They are clearly committed to 1Password memberships and apparently that's what most of their customers (including me) do, as they've stated. So you can continue to whine about it with the others who are in the minority, or just get the hell over it and realize it's just software, not a personal family member, and you can either adapt with the changes or move on to whatever you think are greener pastures.
And we're done here. Nothing more to say to you.
👋
I have already addressed all the issues you re-raised here and the explanation given by Agilebits. I'm so entitled that I've been paying for their software for over a decade. LOL! And I will again reiterate, Agilebits explanation simply doesn't pass muster. It's not my problem if you can't see past the marketing spiel. I'm glad you are happy with it and the sub model works for you. To state that I/we are in the minority given the comments in this thread is a bit of a reach. I'm happy you're done since I no longer have to waste my time demolishing your asinine patronizing arguments.
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Well I suppose that with all the money coming from VC, some additional people are pulling strings, too. And AB will probably not admit to that.
Sorry, you lost me - which two pieces of software are you now comparing?
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
What should be needed isn't to risk one's security over leasing an application with no way of getting your data back from said application after you terminate the lease. No one will nor should ever feel safe in the security of their belongings when they leave that safety and security in the hands of someone else.
But hey, if $3 is worth waiving your 4th amendment rights - until you cancel, in which you end up with nothing - then that is on you, and a pisspoor take on security: internet, network, software, or otherwise. I would rather pay more to have the license to be in control of my security; but hey, you be you: spend $3 in perpetuity.
BL.
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What are you talking about? Just export all your items from 1Password and delete them from the app, which deleltes them from the server. 4th Amendment is between you and government agencies, not you and private entities, and wouldn't even apply here anyway if it extended to private entities. More melodramatic BS.
I am not argueing with what you are saying, what you say is correct and I will vote with my wallet but I also want to point out that the outcome of the market is not necessary whats best to society.
For example, look at 2008 financial crash. They let the market play, the banks knew exactly what they were doing, everyone bought fair and square no scams and look what happened. Look at the European union releasing GDPR , why do they interefer in the business? Why not let the market decide? Those who want their privacy to be exposed can use Windows and Google Chrome and Facebook, those who do not can use Linux and PineOS phones. There are options.
My point is if you let capitalism flow, the market decision might not be int the best of interest for everyone. Some sort of regulations needs to happen. I am sure you are aware of the idea of "late-stage capitalism"
I agree with you and I hope their greed will lead to their demise. Year after year they see their following wither down and people abandoning them. I am sure the FOSS community that created Linux, GIMP, LibreOffice, VLC, will have no issue making several FOSS Password Managers and then Agilebits will regret it... or maybe they know thats the way so they are trying to milk out as much as they can while they can.
Hopefully their greed trick will push users towards Bitwarden and will improve drastically in the coming months.
Actually this is exactly whats happening. People who bought console games on SNES in the 90s they still work as is. All PC software still does.
If you mean that you require the software to continue working in a modern environment then that software was not meant to work like that and you didn't pay for that. For example, If you bought MS Office 1997 it was meant to work on Win95 and maybe 98 (and still does) but no one told you it will work on Windows Vista and 10.
In the modern day I believe software should come with free security patches and bug fixes for at least 5 years but I am cool with no new features. Unlike the subscription model where it will stop functioning the moment you stop paying and probably have to have online connection.
I respectfully disagree. While maintain software does take work, it does not take so much work in a way that forces n app rental strategy. All software that exists today existed with license method some software goes way back from the 80s like Photopshop and continue to do so like Affinity. They only made it rent when they got greedy and want constant non-stop income.
Look at this example:
AgileBits 1Password has 10 Million users at $3/m rent. They make $30 Million a month business is booming. Why so much money? Because they need to support all smartphones and OSs and browsers. OK.
AgilbeBits user base grew, they are 30 Million users at $3/Month. They make $90Million a month! why so much money? because they need to "maintain" the software.
You see, its a lie, they don't need EVERYONE to rent to maintain the software. If 1password sells at $80 for 10 million customers that $800 MILLION now look me in the eye and tell me thats not enough to maintain the app on all OSes. Not only that but they will continue to sell licenses to new customers AND old customers will pay AGAIN for an upgraded version in 4-5 years time. You might say, but they do not have 10 million customers, and i saw they also do not need $800 million to maintain the app. To put a little perspective, LastPass claim that "25 Million People trust LastPass" .
My point: their arguement that they need to rent the software to cover maintenance cost is a LIE! There is an app called Safe-in-Cloud that looks like a 1 man show selling the app at $4 and he has a version for: iOS Android Windows and Mac and support Edge-FireFox-Opera-Chrome browsers. They are renting because they are greedy.
Really? Wow.
Do you have a source for that? The only publicly available estimates I can see are far lower.
One line above your quote, it says. "for example", I think he was just saying $3x 10 m = 30 million, it wasn't a factual statement, just a mathematical example.
Perhaps! But @MacBH928 isn’t using these numbers to work through a hypothetical example about John Doe of Acme Inc, but as as ‘proof’ that a specific company - AgileBits - is lying and greedy:
We are all perfectly entitled to our views on the overall state of the software industry, pricing models, markets and so on. There are plenty of charlatans out there, and I don’t begrudge anyone their cynicism.
But it seems to me that if you are going to accuse a specific business of lying, it would help to have rather firmer ‘evidence’ than numbers that only exist in your imagination!
Fair enough, I guess we interpret differently, I basically just see a model of comparison, not any evidence of facts to be honest, Like if we have this amount of revenue, it cost's this amount to maintain, if they had 10 x the original amount, it still cost the same to maintain.
Not my place to speak on the other guys opinion, I only quoted as I read it differently to you, no harm done, I'm most certainly not trying to be argumentative, hope you don't think I am.
Not at all - I appreciate the discussion! Thanks.
Thank you wise one,
What further evidence do you need than 1Password themselves and other password managers were supporting all browsers and operating systems all these years and their business is flourishing and all of a sudden they are unable to maintain it because of development costs. Yea right.
If they want to turn into the rental business thats fine by me, its a free market and they do not have a monopoly but what bothers me is the excuse that "oh its because development costs...sorry, programmer gotta eat" . No its not that, programmer is greedy and he already had 2 plates and want to eat a 3rd and a 4th and was evil enough to wait until he got a substantial user base that rely on their app to flip the business model around.
If it was just for 1Password cloud storage or corporates version I might be ok with that sense storing someone data in the cloud will be their responsibility and I look at it as a service and corporates probably do not mind paying a subscription for constant updates, fixes, and constant support. But they forced it on everyone even those who do not want to store their data in the cloud.
I don't want to play devil's advocate here but the sense of entitlement and escapism exhibited by some people in this thread is shocking.
Let me say this one time and one time only: I am not a fan of software subscription models and avoid them wherever and whenever possible. I see their merits, I know what the market is like and how much (good) software developers cost, and while I might not necessarily agree with @usagora in every aspect I respect his/her well-reasoned and very elaborately expressed opinions. However, I am also aware of one very important detail: this is a free country and a free market, and Agile Bits owes us sh*t. There is no legal or moral obligation to cater to your whimsy for all eternity just because you bought one or several products in the past. None whatsoever. If I don't like what they're doing I simply move on. Hard to believe but it's really that simple.
Let me say this one time and one time only: I am not a fan of software subscription models and avoid them wherever and whenever possible. I see their merits, I know what the market is like and how much (good) software developers cost, and while I might not necessarily agree with @usagora in every aspect I respect his/her well-reasoned and very elaborately expressed opinions. However, I am also aware of one very important detail: this is a free country and a free market, and Agile Bits owes us sh*t. There is no legal or moral obligation to cater to your whimsy for all eternity just because you bought one or several products in the past. None whatsoever. If I don't like what they're doing I simply move on. Hard to believe but it's really that simple.
Exactly. The 4A is between you and government agencies. Not between government and private entities. Again, you haven't even bothered to look at the link that I provided. Here it is again:
Your Digital Trail: Does The Fourth Amendment Protect Us?
Could government agents really get access to all your private data in less than a minute? Experts say no but warn we are moving in that direction.
www.npr.org
So when a person gets investigated and the government asks for data, the person being investigated is safe in his 4A right. But when the government goes to a third party (in this case, could be 1Password) to get that data, the person being investigated is NOT safe in their 4A right.
That is what I've said now for the past 4 pages or more in this thread. Your convenience in paying $3 for a subscription can be what effectively waives your 4A right, because the government wouldn't need to get data from you; instead, they could get data from everything around you that you involve yourself with. They could go to 1Password, get the data they need, and continue, without you even knowing.
So you'd better hope that the other entities holding your data take security more serious than they do your convenience; otherwise the safety and sanctity of the security of your data must not be worth much; in fact, it would only be $3.
Again, I'd rather pay more for a standalone license and the ability to have my own local vault than to risk losing rights in the name of convenience. But again, you be you.
BL.
Well that's not going to be an option anymore, so the solution for you is to stop whining and find a pw manager to suit your needs. I have no concerns about the government coming after my passwords or notes that are in 1Password, and even if they did, they still don't have my real passwords because I leave out part of the true passwords from the ones stored in 1Password (as I described earlier in the thread). If the government is after you that badly, they'll just break down your door anyway and get to your local vault on your personal computer.