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2007 Formula One Thread

mad jew said:
Wow. I think it's reasonably fair. The sport is about entertainment. Eliminating a top team from the races would harm the sport more than letting the team get away with it, in my opinion. This seems like a good enough middle ground in what would undoubtedly have been an extremely difficult decision.

On the other hand, does anyone even care about the constructor's championship? It's all about the drivers, in my opinion.
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Well, it has a lot to do with where the team is in the pits/pecking order for next year. I think excluding them is possibly ok without putting McLaren at the end of the pit lane.

I think the FIA are in danger of damaging the sport with such a strong punishment and are likely going to put people off paying attention to the sport at this rate.

I mean the races are exactly scintilatingly exciting are they?

I speak as a life long F1 fan too.
 
It will mean that they will get the little pokey garages at the end of the pit-lane next year. And also it may mean that they wont be able to pitch their super motor-home. Ha, that is funny!

Also as a team any bonus that the staff gets would be constructors based. It will be interesting to see (not that we will know) if McLaren stick to their internal bonus scheme.
 
emotion said:
Well, it has a lot to do with where the team is in the pits/pecking order for next year. I think excluding them is possibly ok without putting McLaren at the end of the pit lane.

I think the FIA are in danger of damaging the sport with such a strong punishment and are likely going to put people off paying attention to the sport at this rate.

I mean the races are exactly scintilatingly exciting are they?

I speak as a life long F1 fan too.
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Yeah agree with ya. What FIA did was a hard decision. Depriviation of all constructors points is hard cos in my opinion I can't see any details or evidence that the latest McLaren has parts on it which the Ferraris have. There's never been any evidence of that.

Plus $100m penalty is far too much. Only because of two employees acting wrongly McLaren have to pay for it. That's wrong. I only know Norbert Haugs statement cos he only speaks on German TV but all over the years I've seen McLaren as a highly professional, honest team. I can't see any reason why they'd have changed their 'strategy'.

The season is truly entertaining and with Lewis Hamilton leading the championship there's a huge interest and a lot of potential. After Schumacher everyone saw the F1 in a crysis due to a massive drop of people showing an interest in F1 (well at least in Germany). With Lewis Hamilton this has changed. His quick and a popular figure.

Like emotion I've been a F1 fan since 1993. I think instead of McLaren those two people have to pay for what they've done.
 
The things is this...

The documentation that mclaren received probably did not contain any technical documentation, it probably contained setup data, race strategy and operational details. Technical data would be useless to a greater extent.

if you are McLaren and you get technical data on a Ferrari front wing and you work out that their front wing is 10% more efficient then you copy it and run it on your car will get get a 10% more efficient car? No. Each part of the car links together, i.e. the front wing sets the airflow over the suspension, monocoque and side pods, so that air can then be set to flow over the rear wing etc...

Now what would be invaluable to a team would be to find out how Ferrari work out strategy or how they set-up the car. As I have said many times, the Renault in 2006 was not the fastest car but they knew how to make it quick. If any team got this information from a rival then it could have been hugely important in understanding how to beat Renault.

This is why what McLaren did is so wrong.
 
sweetie81 said:
Depriviation of all constructors points is hard cos in my opinion I can't see any details or evidence that the latest McLaren has parts on it which the Ferraris have. There's never been any evidence of that.
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I wonder how much the FIA actually investigated this aspect?

I would have hoped there had been an independent expert who was given access to the document in question and the full specs of both the Ferrari and the McLaren cars at the time of the document's leak. This expert would then present any evidence showing that McLaren benefited from the document and also allow McLaren to defend against the expert's statement.

The leak itself is the responsibility of the two engineers involved. However, I'd hope that McLaren was penalised only if it was proved that the organisation itself was involved in acquiring the document or that the team directly benefited by copying from the document.

At the moment, I've not heard any hard evidence that McLaren as a team was involved in the acquisition of the document nor that the car itself includes features gained as a direct result of obtaining the document.
 
R.Youden said:
The things is this...

Now what would be invaluable to a team would be to find out how Ferrari work out strategy or how they set-up the car. As I have said many times, the Renault in 2006 was not the fastest car but they knew how to make it quick. If any team got this information from a rival then it could have been hugely important in understanding how to beat Renault.

This is why what McLaren did is so wrong.
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I don't think they'd have done it. If MCL were cheating. Why not earlier? There're always possibilities to get some useful information about other cars/teams.

displaced said:
I wonder how much the FIA actually investigated this aspect?

I would have hoped there had been an independent expert who was given access to the document in question and the full specs of both the Ferrari and the McLaren cars at the time of the document's leak.
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Yeah FIA don't seem to be highly independent. Motorsport needs a new gremium.

Stone me for this statement if you want. That's my opinion.
 
R.Youden said:
I think he knew that the team had the data rather than used the data himself, which is just as bad in my opinion.
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Indeed, though it's been widely reported that Lewis frequently made use of Alonso's set up data, thus gaining him a similar advantage. Whether he knew about this or not is open to debate of course.

AndyR said:
I have since left but if I went to another team what am I supposed to do, get amnesia????
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Well that would depend on whether you stole 700+ pages of confidential data from your team and took that with you, or provided it to a senior member of a rival team, whilst you were still in employment with your current team.

That is the fundamental difference from what you are describing above.

AndyR said:
The whole thing is a farce. Ferrari are just pi$$ed because they pee'd an employee off so much he left with there information.
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He didn't leave with the information.

He stole it, provided it to a senior member of a rival team, and continued to provide a substantial amount of technical and operational information over a not insignificant period of time to them whilst still employed by Ferrari.

AndyR said:
How come Ferrari never got penalised for the barge boards / flexi wing / taking penalties after the race / blocking the track / team orders.
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In answer too..

• The barge boards were in fact legal.
• Ferrari (along with several other teams) changed their wings once the FIA made a rule clarification.
• The penalty after the race wasn't Ferrari's problem, it was a mistake in procedure by the stewards.
• Why should Ferrari be penalised for what Schumacher did? Schumacher though was.
• Team orders were perfectly legal up until Austria 2002, so Ferrari could not be penalised for imposing them.

The suggestion that Ferrari are never penalised however, is nothing other than a myth.

Counterfit said:
What sort of punishment could PDR be subject to anyway?
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Well, he could've been stripped of his Super License, he also could've been banned from all FIA sanctioned motor sport competition.

Personally, that wouldn't have gone far enough. I'd have shot him too. ;)

R.Youden said:
This makes it sound even worse and shows, ti my mind, how lucky McLaren where.
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It's even more damning then I was expecting. The level of technical data it contains is just... incredible.

Yet McLaren are allowed to continue there participation in this season, whilst they are still aware of not only this technical data, but also operational procedures. Unbelievable.

I simply cannot believe that McLaren have not been excluded from not only this season. But the next 5 as well.

&

I simply cannot believe that Alonso has not been excluded from not only this season. But the next 5 as well.


If all of what has happened isn't enough, some seem to think that it was Ron Dennis himself that tipped off the FIA to the emails.

The ultimate irony.

It's now official. :eek:

Dennis tipped off FIA about evidence.

So, what are the odds now on Fred sitting out next season?
 
Maybe that explains the leniency of the punishment....Dennis was the one who finally broke the case wide open.

Fred...as a driver he's very good, but he makes a pretty wretched human being. Not interested in him anymore. He should be driving a Spyker or Super Aguri for the rest of the season and then sit out '08.
 
Has everyone already seen this bit of news from ESPN.com?

FIA said de la Rosa sought and obtained "secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate," before sharing it with Alonso.

"There was a clear intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confidential information in its own testing," it said.

On the eve of testing the McLaren car in a simulator, De la Rosa wrote an e-mail to Coughlan on March 21 to provide information about the red Ferrari setup.

"Hi Mike, do you know the Red Car's Weight Distribution? It would be important for us to know so that we could try it in the simulator. Thanks in advance, Pedro," FIA quoted De la Rosa's message.

In another e-mail quoted by FIA, de la Rosa wrote to Alonso about a specific gas Ferrari was using to inflate its tires.

"We'll have to try it, it's easy," wrote de la Rosa.

FIA said Alonso replied: "Let's hope we can test it during this test, and that we can make it a priority!"
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I'm not a big F1 follower, but this kind of espionage is pretty damning.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Maybe that explains the leniency of the punishment....Dennis was the one who finally broke the case wide open.
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What's really intriguing is the reasons Ron felt compelled to share it with the FIA.

Certainly the talk of Fred using the emails as some kind of leverage/blackmail to either negotiate #1 status or else is just :eek: :eek: :eek:

gauchogolfer said:
Has everyone already seen this bit of news from ESPN.com?
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That's nothing... read the rest of it. :eek:
 
Yeah, most of that was in the FIA statement.

Not at all good, sorry guys.

I don't care how much it would have 'damaged' Formula One, cheats, and blatant cheats, must be dealt with severely.

They are VERY lucky.
 
Maybe Ron could give Alonso a motor-bike so he could "fall off whilst playing tennis". That would solve the problems.
 
Don't panic said:
i think he's referring to montoya's 'tennis' injury, which according to others occurred as he was riding a dirt bike, which is a big no-no because of the high injury risks.
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Alright thought it could be a reason to fire that Spaniard. He's fast but instead of concentrating on his job he started to moan and becoming an ar............ His statement in Monza that the victory was nothing special showed how pissed he is. No manners or does he want to go back to Renault asap?
 
A started in another thread, I fear Colin McRae has been killed in a helicopter crash.

See thread
 
Finally, something happened on track in F1 for a change...:rolleyes:

I don't think Raikkonen can catch up to the two McLaren drivers, but I really hope Fred doesn't take the title.
 
The FIA have published full transcripts for both WMSC meetings regarding the Spygate case between McLaren and Ferrari.

Grandprix.com have provided a full transcript, that does not require the downloading of any PDF's.

The original transcripts however can be obtained directly from the FIA Website in PDF format.

I'm currently reading and digesting, and look forward to perhaps discussing the contents later on.
 
iGav said:
The FIA have published full transcripts for both WMSC meetings regarding the Spygate case between McLaren and Ferrari.

Grandprix.com have provided a full transcript, that does not require the downloading of any PDF's.

The original transcripts however can be obtained directly from the FIA Website in PDF format.

I'm currently reading and digesting, and look forward to perhaps discussing the contents later on.
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Only 20-odd pages into the September hearing, but it's pretty damning stuff. Pretty electrifying in some respects, too - and amusing where Tozzi bitchslaps Mosley about it being 45 minutes in and him "having his watch here and being well aware of that."

Not too smart on the part of Mill, who cocks up his opening part with wrong information.
 
Ok everything is very quiet in the F1 world at the moment. I stumbled across and article by our friend Max Mosely in the papers today and he has said that because the UK government has bankrolled the Olympics in 2012 they should back the British GP as that is every year and the Olympics is once every 50 years.

What do people think about this? I think that Silverstone is one of the only non-government backed circuits in the world (at least they get no money from them whilst all the other circuits get some). After being inside the garages at Silverstone and comparing them to bahrain of Malaysia they are a million miles apart (I have a good story about the Paul Ricard pits but that can wait for another day!). 8 of next years 12 teams will be UK based and all the subsidiary companies that work out of the UK employ thousands of people and this would be lost if Silverstone was pulled from the calendar.

Come on Gordon, put your hand in your pocket, pull a few troops out of Iraq and get some money into one of the true British sports left. You know it makes sense.
 
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