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2007 NFL Season
- Thread starter mgargan1
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Well the Colts had cameras banned from the sidelines when the Pats were in town, and the Packers saw the same guy as last week taking pictures.
Okay, let me ask it in a different way... do you honestly think that you would be singing the same tune if you were a Miami, NY, or Buffalo fan and the Pats weren't as dominate as they are. In other words, if Miami had been dominate since 2001, like the Pats have been, and this happened to them... do you think you'd still share the same attitude that you have now?
Other teams do this too, the Patriots were just the first to get caught by Goodell.
Honestly, I don't see a huge problem with this and it's been blown way out of proportion by the media. Every team watches game tape every week to try to figure out the other teams plays, playing styles, how they react to different plays, etc.
During the game, they get photos of every play both pre-snap and during the play to see how the defense/offense reacted to their play and determine what play they were running. Then they go and make adjustments.
If the cardinals or lions or another ****** team got "caught" doing this, it wouldn't have been blown way out of proportion like this.
The opposing teams need to do a better job of disguising their signals if they don't want them to be stolen. Change them up, call them a different way, whatever. The offensive coaches always cover their mouth with the play sheet when they call it into the headset.
Well he is a Media Assistant.
Honestly, I don't see a huge problem with this and it's been blown way out of proportion by the media. Every team watches game tape every week to try to figure out the other teams plays, playing styles, how they react to different plays, etc.
During the game, they get photos of every play both pre-snap and during the play to see how the defense/offense reacted to their play and determine what play they were running. Then they go and make adjustments.
If the cardinals or lions or another ****** team got "caught" doing this, it wouldn't have been blown way out of proportion like this.
The opposing teams need to do a better job of disguising their signals if they don't want them to be stolen. Change them up, call them a different way, whatever. The offensive coaches always cover their mouth with the play sheet when they call it into the headset.
Well he is a Media Assistant.
Yes.
I deplore the actions of the Pats that have been proven thus far and wait with trepidation as other alligations will undoubtedly come to light.
But because the Pats have been dominant, people are very quick to judge them exceedingly harshly.
I for one, would not judge any team until all the information had come to light first.
That may suprise you.
Cheaters? Tough to define. I don't know enough about the facts of the story. The facts seem to be a closely guarded secret by the NFL. I wonder if anybody will ever get to view the tape?
The Pats 'interpretation' hasn't been made public. Probably never will.
Stealing signals. Ex: Lawyer Milloy made up the defenses signals for the Pats. Pats wanted to negotiate a long term contract. Milloy didn't. Milloy gets cut a week before opening game to fit the Pats under the salary cap. He gets hired by the Pats first opponent, the Bills. Bills win 31~0. Any complaints about 'stealing' signals? No.
Next Ex: Caldwell gets cut by the Pats on Tuesday before opening game. Like Milloy, he's there all of preseason/ training camp. Wed, Caldwell is hired as a 'consultant' by the Jets. He's not a player on the team, he's a 'consultant'. Think the 'secret signals' were 'stolen'? No, they were 'bought' fair & square. The 'consultants' don't need to be reported to the league.
This goes on everywhere. The 'consultant' players are protected by the Players Union. Artrell Hawkins was 'consulting' the Jets as well. That's the Pats offense and defense comprimised. The Pats brought in Bobby Hamilton, a recent former Jet.
So, I guess the NFL 'rules' say its OK to steal/buy the opponents signals for immediate and future use, but videotaping for future use isn't.
Seems to me, if a team doesn't want their signals 'stolen', then make new signals or change their meaning every game.
I guess that would give a smart team an advantage. Less intelligent players & coaches won't be able to remember the changes. Most teams change and make adjustments at halftime anyways...
Of course, they could just be more physical than the other team. Signals don't mean much when you're getting beaten up. Just ask the Rams in the Superbowl. Oh, I forgot, that was the Pat's cheating then, too.
The Pats 'interpretation' hasn't been made public. Probably never will.
Stealing signals. Ex: Lawyer Milloy made up the defenses signals for the Pats. Pats wanted to negotiate a long term contract. Milloy didn't. Milloy gets cut a week before opening game to fit the Pats under the salary cap. He gets hired by the Pats first opponent, the Bills. Bills win 31~0. Any complaints about 'stealing' signals? No.
Next Ex: Caldwell gets cut by the Pats on Tuesday before opening game. Like Milloy, he's there all of preseason/ training camp. Wed, Caldwell is hired as a 'consultant' by the Jets. He's not a player on the team, he's a 'consultant'. Think the 'secret signals' were 'stolen'? No, they were 'bought' fair & square. The 'consultants' don't need to be reported to the league.
This goes on everywhere. The 'consultant' players are protected by the Players Union. Artrell Hawkins was 'consulting' the Jets as well. That's the Pats offense and defense comprimised. The Pats brought in Bobby Hamilton, a recent former Jet.
So, I guess the NFL 'rules' say its OK to steal/buy the opponents signals for immediate and future use, but videotaping for future use isn't.
Seems to me, if a team doesn't want their signals 'stolen', then make new signals or change their meaning every game.
I guess that would give a smart team an advantage. Less intelligent players & coaches won't be able to remember the changes. Most teams change and make adjustments at halftime anyways...
Of course, they could just be more physical than the other team. Signals don't mean much when you're getting beaten up. Just ask the Rams in the Superbowl. Oh, I forgot, that was the Pat's cheating then, too.
Have you played the game before, at the pro level? This sounds easier said than done. On top of having to have the playbook memorized, and your assignment on each play down pat, that is too unrealistic of a requirement. Besides, were talking NFL football players here, not exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to brains.
At the very least, just own up to it that the team messed up. Yes, the Pats are good, and that's more reason why they don't need to do this. But even if the rule is stupid or you disagree with signal stealing or whatever, it doesn't change the fact it's a rule in the NFL to not do this, and breaking this rule could lead to repercussions. Teams were warned about it, but a few individuals in the Pats organization seemingly thought they were above the rules and regulations of the NFL and did it anyway. I think that deserves some punishment.
In order to be that good at football to play in the NFL, which has a huge mental side of the game (like you said about remembering plays and stuff), you have to be pretty smart.
Yeah, they're not all idiots, I'm just saying on top of all of that they have now, to mix in signal changes is asking a bit much. And the game is a mental challenge, but being mentally tough and focused is not equivalent to simply being smart.
just wondering, why has all this bad stuff all come out just when goodell becomes commish? was the old one not keeping things in line, or did they think they can get away with more things with goodell?
Nope,never played pro ball..You? I'm curious as to what exactly is on the tape,since it was confiscated in the first quarter. Are people trying to say that the Pats knew Moss would be triple covered so they threw at him anyways?Or are they saying that Ellis Hobbs knew the formation the Jets would have to open the second half so he took out a ball 8 yards deep in the endzone and took it back 108 yards?
They got caught because they had a camera on the sidelines. That's the violation,not signal stealing. Signal stealing is nothing new.Why do people think coaches/coordinators on the sidelines cover their mouth with a clipboard when calling offensive and defensive formations?That's been going on for years. You think teams don't have scouts in the stands with binnoculaurs scouting out the next week's opponent and their formations? I'm curious to see what the official ruling from the NFL will be as to what the punishment is.And if they'll come out and say definitively what's on the tape.
Bouncing the question back at me doesn't prove you know anymore than I do, it just shows that your signal changing theory holds little ground.
If there was no pressure on the quarterback, yes there would be a reason to throw a deepball in that situation, because even though the three were there, they were in lousy position and no way to make a play on a pass that's leading the receiver, and with enough time for the QB (because they may be aware ahead of time that they didn't send a blitz, which they could have known about), he would be in a perfect position to make a precision pass. The 108 yard return I'll chalk up to lousy kickoff coverage; give us some credit, it's obvious we're not insinuating that every single play that the Pats made was due to having a camera man there. I said they're a good team, take the compliment. Although, that return is not as impressive as Devin Hester's or Nathan Vasher's (definitely not Vasher's) 108 yard field goal returns.
In any case, signal stealing, cameraman on the field, whatever. My point is, the Pats violated a specific rule that was outlined to all the teams, and it comes off as very arrogant. I'm not arguing whether the semantics of signal stealing are legit or not. I feel like I already said this.
All teams make adjustments during the game,esp at halftime. They change up coverages,blitz packages,assignments etc. If they're changing coverages,blitz packages etc,they're also changing up the signals to corrsepond with the new schemes. Coaches will also use several different hand signals to send out a play,when only one is the actual signal.
And I'm not denying the Pats got caught.They did.They caught videotaping, which is the violation.I feel like I said that already..
Lots of great "theories" floating around out there.This one is particularly funny:
POSTED 8:58 a.m. EDT, September 12, 2007
WERE PATS STUNG BY COMPETITION COMMITTEE?
There's a theory making the rounds in league circles that the Sunday confiscation of Matt Estrella's camera was the result of a specific effort by the NFL's Competition Committee to nail the Patriots.
It was, some believe, a sting operation.
Rumors also are swirling that Jets coach Eric Mangini, who was with the Pats through the 2005 season, began to spread the word to other teams in 2006 regarding the tactics that Bill Belichick employs. But even after a close call last year in Green Bay, the Patriots kept doing it.
The thinking in some circles is that the Competition Committee, which has endorsed the use of a radio receiver in the helmet of one defensive player, wants to use the Patriots' situation as the impetus for getting the additional two votes necessary to pass the rule.
In March 2007, 22 of the 24 teams needed to push the measure through voted in favor of it.
Though such a rule will not be perfect given the extent of the substitutions made on defense, it would eliminate the temptation to steal defensive signals, because it would eliminate the defensive signals.
And, in our view, it's a no-brainer that this rule will be passed come March 2008.
----
As I said,it will be interesting to see how the NFL comes down on this one.
Two of the top three games I have ever watched were college ball... and I just started watching it two years ago.
I think it is a better game.
BUT, my college never had a football team and I wouldn't root for those bastards if they did so it is hard for me to root for a college team.
Plus, by the time I get to know all their players, half of them graduate!
Grrr!
So I watch pro ball more because I know the teams, players and histories.
GO SKINS!
But I thought you said you root for a pro team.So I watch pro ball more because I know the teams, players and histories.
GO SKINS!
But I thought you said you root for a pro team.
Sigh.
At least I am realistic about their chances. I doubt that they will do better than six or seven wins.
But I have some friends who are Raiders fans. Every stinking year they go into the season thinking that "this is gonna be our year!" and they get more and more pissed off with every single game!
They are so bad that they made the Lions look good!
And ferchristsakes, Moss did more with the Pats last week than he did in two years in Oakland. Such a waste of talent.
I used to not give two turds about college football, but I'm really wishing I saw the Appalachian State and Michigan game. I'm trying to get into it, but never got big into any team at any point (I can't stand the Hawkeyes), so it may just be casual enjoyment.
It's more interesting. In pro, everyone is fast. In college, a few people are fast so you can see plays develop and some go for long yards. Plus, in pro ball, everyone runs the same stuff. In college, you can see different philosophies (some teams are fast, some big, some run it all the time, some pass...).
I watched Cal a few weeks ago and the campus was beautiful. The fact that they beat Tennessee really was fun.
Better than most games this past weekend.
As a broncos fan, it's been great watching the raiders go something like 15-51 since their superbowl loss. That organization is messed up and they will be as long as al davis is their owner.
Here's to another pounding of the raiders this week. GO BRONCOS!
daniel
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